Breaking news: ATF bans importation of parts kits with intact barrels


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Gun Wielding Maniac
July 1, 2005, 04:03 PM
Most of you probably will not care about this announcement, but word has been breaking all over the net and I have done some investigation on my own. Yesterday, the ATF called up all the importers of parts kits in the US and informed them that they had ruled not to approve the importation of any more parts kits of non-sporting firearms, such as the AK, FAL, or G3 rifles, with intact barrels. This means that any barrels included with these kits will have to be torch cut in the same way as the receivers are. The ruling takes effect immediately.
:fire:
I called up Lois at Centerfire Systems to find out if it was true. It is. Centerfire Systems had a load of AMD-63 AK parts kits coming in next month. Since they heard of this hearing, the order has been cancelled. If the parts kits are not already in the country, they never will be allowed in... at least with intact barrels.

This will force home builders and manufacturers such as Century and Global Trades to have new US barrels made. This will of course, cause the cost and difficulty of any build to increase. No word yet on how this will effect the WASR rifles or SAIGA guns which are imported built with foreign receiver and barrels.

If you are in any way interested in building your own semi-auto clone of any "assault weapon" you need to start thinking of it soon. The prices will surely get jacked up overnight.

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KaceCoyote
July 1, 2005, 04:06 PM
It kills me the ATF can do this without public consent.


Still, I cant help but feel the "fold yourself" receivers somehow contributed to this.

MudPuppy
July 1, 2005, 04:09 PM
Link?

What next??? I can't believe we won the cold war but have lost the peace.

Pinned&Recessed
July 1, 2005, 04:09 PM
Still, I cant help but feel the "fold yourself" receivers somehow contributed to this.

How's that?

What's got the ATF so pissy about imported barrels? Why not just import the barrels seperately?

I agree that the ATF making it's own rules outside public consent is wrong. See their recent decisions regarding SBR Form 1s.

Third_Rail
July 1, 2005, 04:11 PM
This kind of thing is enough to make one forget about any firearms laws.


Why bother regulating barrels when even convicts in ultramax prisons can make working firearms, when they're being WATCHED carefully?? It boggles the mind.

KaceCoyote
July 1, 2005, 04:12 PM
Well first I'm under the impression that mating a barrel to a gas block is a very difficult excersise.


Only the AK can bost a "build it yourself" receiver for the common man, then add a parts kit and bam. Quite easily, you have an entire rifle thats "off the books". They cant stop folks from buying a flat sheet of metal with holes punched it in, and its easily produced by anyone with a drillpress anywho. So they throw the brakes on what they can.

epijunkie67
July 1, 2005, 04:17 PM
Why bother regulating barrels when even convicts in ultramax prisons can make working firearms, when they're being WATCHED carefully??

Link?

countertop
July 1, 2005, 04:18 PM
but word has been breaking all over the net and I have done some investigation on my own. Yesterday, the ATF called up all the importers of parts kits in the US and informed them that they had ruled not to approve the importation of any more parts kits of non-sporting firearms, such as the AK, FAL, or G3 rifles, with intact barrels.

All over the net???

Thats funny. I haven't seen it anywhere but here, least of all on the ATF page.

Third_Rail
July 1, 2005, 04:23 PM
epijunkie67 - the book "Zips, Pipes, and Pens" is a good place to start. I'm sure there are other sources as well.


My personal favorite example was a fully automatic SMG, suppressed. Used in a breakout attempt.

Gun Wielding Maniac
July 1, 2005, 04:25 PM
You havent been looking very hard. Check Gunco, FALfiles, AK-47.net, AR-15.com... The ATF hasnt updated their site yet. No surprise there, as this would apply to importers only anyway.

Called up the ATF Firearms and Explosives Import branch in Washington, DC. The secretary said she didnt have any knowledge of any ban on parts kits... but that they didnt have a full staff there anyway. She said call back tuesday when the branch chief comes back in. So, I can't get strong confirmation either way from an "Official" source till then. Personally, I believe it is true.

Henry Bowman
July 1, 2005, 04:43 PM
So they throw the brakes on what they can. :fire: It burns me that the ATF views us as their enemy. I wish they were more like the Ag extension office that you could call up for advice when you were having trouble using or building you guns.

countertop
July 1, 2005, 04:45 PM
You havent been looking very hard. Check Gunco, FALfiles, AK-47.net, AR-15.com

Eeer, I wouldn't trust the rumourer mill of gun boards


The ATF hasnt updated their site yet. No surprise there, as this would apply to importers only anyway.Why?? How else would people know about this??

I'll tell you what makes this super suspect, your original line

Yesterday, the ATF called up all the importers of parts kits in the US and informed them that they had ruled not to approve the importation of any more parts kits of non-sporting firearms, such as the AK, FAL, or G3 rifles, with intact barrels.

Sorry, but the ATF doesn't simply call people up. Thats not the way the system works. This decision, if it were to be made, would most likely be open to notice and comment rulemaking inwhich the ATF announced their intention to change existing import rules and the public would have the opportunity to provide comment on those rules. I can't find evidence of that rule making beingundertaking.

While it is true, that they may being to simple deny import requests - they would need to issue a very specific letter ruling to the effect and explaining why the situation changed and what was SOP yesterday is no longer SOP today. Further, the decision would not be in effect immediatly, but would have some period of time before it went into effect (so as to provide sufficient notice for importers to comply with a new rule).

As the poster on AR-15.net said - this is nothing more than the hogwash that some (sadly, alot) of firearms dealers routinly spread so that they can justify otherwise outrageous pricing.

Caveat emptor - buyer beware.

spacemanspiff
July 1, 2005, 04:49 PM
The ATF hasnt updated their site yet. No surprise there, as this would apply to importers only anyway.
ATF was quick to post a memo to their website on 9/13 regarding the sunset of the AWB.

Gun Wielding Maniac
July 1, 2005, 04:55 PM
But the expiration of the AWB had more to do with individuals then this does. The AWB also covered the possession of high-capacity magazines. This strictly deals with legal importation.

The fact of the matter is that we don't know how long this has been in the works or to what extent anyone had any input into the ATF's regulatory process. This has to do with the approval of new parts kits entry into the USA.

Hey, believe what you want. Regardless of whether this is true or false, parts kits WILL be jacked up in price in short order.

Here are a few of the people who would be lying. Remember it well:
Centerfire Systems
Akron Armory
Global Military Gunsmithing
Global Trades
Century International Arms

Third_Rail
July 1, 2005, 05:06 PM
This really does make me so happy that I'm going into machining for a living.

armoredman
July 1, 2005, 05:10 PM
Why bother regulating barrels when even convicts in ultramax prisons can make working firearms, when they're being WATCHED carefully?? It boggles the mind.
I have seen darts, dartguns, homemade knives,(shanks), fece grenades, "cocktails" of every bodily fluid, but never have I ever seen a manufactured firearm in a supermax prison. It happened in "Carbine Williams", is that what you refer to? That actually did happen.

countertop
July 1, 2005, 05:25 PM
Well, I just spoke with the General Counsel's office (I won't divulge who I spoke with, but if you PM me and I know you I might) and they said "there are no new bans as of today." As his secretary told me as I was waiting for him to get back to his desk (he's an acquaintence, hence he took my call after 4:00 on the Friday before July 4th weekend) "sounds like there is another crazy internet rumor ".

Anyway, there is no new ban on anything from the ATF - if they were to ban something it would come in one of two forms - either a new regulation (open to notice and comment rulemaking) or a written interpretation from main Justice based upon existing law which would first be published by DOJ (in a very public form) and then reacted to by BATF (again in a very public written manner). Of course, neither the DOJ action nor the BATF reaction would have an impact on parts already here nor would they be necessarily the law of the land as they are only interpretations of current law - but to the extent BATF no longer approves imports - you couldn't go ahead and do it.

In no instance would they EVER have agents just "calling up" dealers and importers.

Bottom line, as I said - its a big fat internet scare.

As for your list of "reputable" firearms dealers - well, this is a public forum so I'll leave my thoughts about them to myself.

Gun Wielding Maniac
July 1, 2005, 08:03 PM
At this point, I'm waiting till I talk to someone in the office of the ATF who might actually know what the hell is going on before I say anything else. That will be Tuesday.

As I mentioned earlier, I also called the ATF but was only able to speak to a secretary. Looking at the frantic reaction of the importers... ALL of them, I wouldn't be so quick to decry this an "internet myth". You may come too on Tuesday or Wednesday only to find the parts kits running 400 or 500 dollars for what is 200 this week.

Of course, you may have no interest at all in building up a non-sporting firearm (whatever the heck that really means anyway), in which case this doesnt matter to you.

Standing Wolf
July 1, 2005, 08:32 PM
It burns me that the ATF views us as their enemy. I wish they were more like the Ag extension office that you could call up for advice when you were having trouble using or building you guns.

Apt comparison.

I'd say it's time for us, the people, to pull the plug on the B.A.T.F.E.

countertop
July 9, 2005, 01:25 AM
At this point, I'm waiting till I talk to someone in the office of the ATF who might actually know what the hell is going on before I say anything else. That will be Tuesday.

Eeer, did you ever hear anything different?

TMM
July 9, 2005, 11:22 AM
does this really have any logical reasoning behind it except for the anti's dream of "gun control today, total control tomorrow"?

oh wait, an overseas barrel is OBVIOUSLY an assauly weapon while an american made barrel will CLEARLY prevent full-auto fire and be nice and docile.

~TMM
...idiots

Kharn
July 9, 2005, 02:37 PM
Isnt there another topic on this already? Here's a FALFiles post on the subject:
FALFiles source (http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143780)
I just received a phone call from the ATF person in charge of publishing the rulemaking decisions. This is the person who is the contact listed in an earlier post here on the files.

He had informed me that there was no ban on importation of military surplus barrels, or kits with them that are intact. Also, that there have been no denials of any Form 6 permits nor any rulings in that regard. Also, the stated that until there is a formal rulemaking and it appears in the Federal Register, no action of any kind may be taken by anyone regarding pretty much anything.

He further advised me that I visit the website for any upated regarding any rulemaking decisions and for instuctions on input during the comment periods.

I had mentioned to the person that if in fact the denial of form 6's were reality, and the change on the barrels were actual, that there would be literally hundreds of thousands of letters flying to our congresspeople. He immediately said that there was no need to do that, as there was no ruling about anything that I'd asked about.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, no ban on barrels, this from the ATF, unless they are illegally doing this, without congressional approval, nor a record of a decision as required by law. The ruling is either there, or it's not, and it is not.

Sounds like people are starting rumors while the ATF moves shop from DC to WV. :rolleyes:

Kharn

hifi
July 9, 2005, 05:00 PM
Government agencies will always try to justify their existence and expand their power. Why do things like this ever surprise anyone?

Gun Wielding Maniac
July 9, 2005, 10:22 PM
"Sounds like people are starting rumors while the ATF moves shop from DC to WV. "

Not so fast. I called the ATF office and they didnt know what the hell is going on. Of course, they rarely do. Here is something posted on Gunco.net recently.

"Weaponeer provided proof on one of the other threads that the barrel ban is true. I asked them to start a fresh thread.

http://www.gunco.net/forums/showpos...28&postcount=48

Not wanting to steal their thunder, I waited a few minutes before starting this thread.

The detractors are correct; the scan of the memo on Weaponeer's website is illegible, so my thread here is just a quote of their thread. I have not seen the actual memo.

They quoted the text of a fax they received from DOJ:

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/foru...1996&PN=0&TPN=3

And here I'm quoting it:

"I cannot post a legible copy of the fax because it's marked CONFIDENTIAL & URGENT from the DOJ, and posting a confidential memorandum from the DOJ is [not] legal.

I'll tell you what the fax states:
Dated: June 30, 2005
URGENT NOTIFICATION BY FACSIMILE
MEMORANDUM: IMPORT CLIENTS

SUBJECT: ATF Processing of FORM 6 & Permit Applications for Non-Sporting Barrels and Receivers.
We are advised that ATF has suspended the processing of ALL Form 6 permit applications for Non-Sporting Barrels and Receivers for commercial resale. If you need to import pther gun parts, please call us for guidance. We will provide further informatin as soon as we receive it."

This subject is very important."

Many people with a lot of weight in the industry have confirmed that this is true. The ATF has NOT come outright saying this wasnt real. I've just gotten stammering responses from ATF secretaries.

As far as I am concerned, the subject is still on the table.

HKrazy
July 9, 2005, 11:49 PM
18 USC 925(d)(3):

(d) The Secretary shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be
imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if
the firearm or ammunition--

(3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a
firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code
of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or
readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military
firearms, except in any case where the Secretary has not authorized
the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall
be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm
which would be prohibited if assembled.

18 USC 925 (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+18USC925)


The BATF was allowing an exception to the law by letting these parts in for "repair or replacement" only.

They probably feel that it is being abused. So, I guess, they have decided to tighten up.

They have the authority of law to do so.

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