Rationale for back-up guns?


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pfgrone
July 1, 2005, 10:15 PM
I'm not trying to start an argument but I am a newbie and I have an honest question I haven't figured out. I'm also not a LEO. I'm a civilian considering what gun for a CCW.

I have seen numerous posters on various forums state that only a 9mm or larger will do as their "primary" carry gun but then also state that their backup gun is anything from a .22lr to a .380ACP. What I don't understand is if a larger caliber is so important for the primary gun then why wouldn't it be as important also for the backup? Am I missing some logic here? If you had to go to a backup, why would it be less important to have a higher powered gun then?

Paul G.

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Pilgrim
July 1, 2005, 10:26 PM
Size and weight probably preclude carrying a full-sized weapon for a backup piece.

Pilgrim

sssteinkamp
July 1, 2005, 11:04 PM
Personally, I like to carry a pair of Glock 19s. Or a G19 strong side, and a G26 on the other. Easy as pie, but I'm a big guy...

I also carry a knife in each pocket.

Shane

Tom Servo
July 1, 2005, 11:06 PM
I've actually heard it said that some folks prefer a backup in a higher caliber than their primary, logic being that if gun #1 fails, gun #2 sure as heck needs to bring the BG down, and at very close range.

Kamicosmos
July 1, 2005, 11:08 PM
A lot goes into why you want a BUG. Some people prefer to carry extra ammo instead of a second gun. Some say a BUG is quicker to draw and shoot than to do a reload (New York Reload). Others point to reliablity, better to have two guns in case one is busted for some reason, which is why some people get really excited over guns that can share mags and ammo, like the glocks/baby glocks.

Some people simply like to carry lots of gear on thier belt.

To each their own, that's why this is America! :D

PowderBurn
July 2, 2005, 12:14 AM
Chances of any of us regular citizens having to draw our weapon is quite small. The chance of having to draw that weapon, then switch to a BUG for some reason, is much smaller still. So those willing to settle for a smaller caliber BUG are a) assuming that BUG = deeper concealment = smaller gun = smaller caliber, and b) acknowledging the low probability of need to draw and therefore willing to "settle" for less effective weapon.

oldfart
July 2, 2005, 12:16 AM
True story, and it has some bearing on the question.

A friend of mine, a local gunsmith, was out walking his valuable hunting dogs. He had them on leashes when five dogs ran up and started attacking his dogs. Naturally, he was a bit harried, trying to keep his dogs safe while also trying to chase the others away. Finally, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a .32 revolver. He didn't really want to shoot the offending dogs but he wanted to make them go awy so he fired one round into the ground. It was enough to make the attacking dogs lose interest and run back to their owner.
He tried to call the police but the battery in his phone was dead. Someone else called for him. In due time the police showed up and ordered him to place his hands on his head. He asked them what he should do with his dogs. No answer... just 'put your hands on your head!' Eventually, they took his .32 and asked him if he had any other weapons. They were less than happy to find he also had a .380 in a belt-holster and a .22 in another pocket. Fortunately, he also had a CCW in his wallet.
The police took all his guns and his CCW and turned them over to the DA who tried to find some reason to charge him for something. His attorney, a hunting buddy, pressed the DA to either return his property or charge him. He got his guns and CCW back without being charged.
Now, when the police were questioning him about why he carried three guns, he told them that there were times he might not be able to reach one of them but with three opportunities, he should be able to get to one of them. Overkill? Maybe, but that .32 was his primary backup and the .22 was his secondary backup.

kngflp
July 2, 2005, 12:50 AM
I carry a full size IWB and a small 9mm or a snub .357 in the pocket. I can stick my hand in my pocket and unholster a gun but I can not pull back a cover garment and expose the gun on my hip. Quite often It feels nice to be able to lay a hand on a gun walking around at night.

peacefuljeffrey
July 2, 2005, 01:02 AM
some people get really excited over guns that can share mags and ammo, like the glocks/baby glocks.

I know about the Glocks and baby Glocks, but are there any other makes/models that have the same magazine-interchangeability going for them? I have never heard of any.

-Jeffrey

geekWithA.45
July 2, 2005, 08:12 AM
Sig p245, conceived as a concealed carry piece/backup gun, can use its big brother's Sig P220 mags.

pfgrone
July 2, 2005, 08:14 AM
I guess what prompted my question for this thread is the feeling that since I am a civilian and my basic idea is to avoid/run away from trouble when possible, my CCW could just as well be a .32 pocket pistol for a situation that will most probably never, but could, occur.
Paul G.

straightShot
July 2, 2005, 08:21 AM
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/shot6_20030606.htm

I suppose that carrying a second, smaller gun comes in handy. This was two years ago.


Robbed ex-cop kills suspect

In critical condition, he wounds two other teens
June 6, 2003


BY BEN SCHMITT AND CECIL ANGEL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS

A retired Detroit police officer shot and killed a man and wounded two others early Thursday morning after being robbed outside an east side bar, police said.

Robert Strickland was walking toward the Elbow Lounge on the 7300 block of Macknear Field in Detroit at 12:50 a.m. when he was approached by three teens. One brandished a gun and demanded money, said Homicide Inspector Craig Schwartz.

Strickland, 57, gave the young men $80 and credit cards. One of the teens then fired at Strickland, striking him in the stomach, Schwartz said.

The teens fled. Strickland opened fire with two handguns he was carrying legally -- a .25-caliber and a 9mm -- Schwartz said. He fired 17 shots, striking the 15-year-old suspect in the back and an 18-year-old suspect in the back of the left leg. The third suspect, Antonio Harris, 18, was killed after being struck in the head, Schwartz said. All three were from Detroit.

Stephanie Henry, a bartender at the Elbow Lounge, was working when she heard gunshots. She said she she kept working because it didn't sound close by and the bar has had little trouble with crime.

"It's a nice place," she said.

A moment later, Strickland, a regular customer, walked in and sat in the chair at the end of the bar nearest the door, Henry said. He appeared calm.

"He just sat down and told me to call the police," she said.

She barely remembers what happened after she found out he had been shot. "It was a scary feeling," she said.

The two wounded suspects were listed in temporarily serious condition Thursday night at St. John Detroit Riverside Hospital. Strickland was in critical but stable condition at Detroit Receiving Hospital. All three are expected to live, Schwartz said.

The wounded suspects were questioned by police. They face felony charges, including armed robbery.

No charges are expected against Strickland, Schwartz said.

Strickland, who lives in Detroit, joined the department in 1967 and retired as a sergeant on disability in 1986.

He had worked in the 11th (Davison) Precinct.

P95Carry
July 2, 2005, 09:11 AM
A lot of folks - sometimes those who think that even owning two guns is an arsenal! - get phased by knowing someone carries more than one. In fact they are probably disbelieving anyone should actually carry at all!

Thing is - if a person has the resolve to carry at all and is legal so to do then why not consider a BUG. After all - the reason for carry is obvious or should be and so why not increase the odds in your favor, should the unthinkable actually happen.

I choose a large primary - SIG 226 - and that is almost always on board. I do tho make a habit now of having at least an NAA mini in some pocket - so small it is hardly even noticeable. Other good BUG choice is my R9, which is very pocketable but does require pockets with enough slack to enable a worthwhile chance of a good draw..... sometimes it'll be ankle rig too.

There is much to be said for secondary being same as primary but often space and comfort limit this. Fortunately the R9 is also 9mm, tho only std pressure, but the Mini of course is decidedly down the scale (22 WMR)! Thus a lower cal and size if often the choice. You could say ''better some BUG'' than no BUG at all''!

Genuine well intentioned carry is about not just responsibility but some dedication too - meaning if you are going to prepare for meeting trouble head on, then do it effectively. Chances are of course (and hopefully) this will never be needed.

gbelleh
July 2, 2005, 09:37 AM
I like to keep my primary piece on the right side, and a BUG accessible with the left hand. My BUG is a Kel-Tec P-32 which is so small and light, it's no bother at all. If my primary gun doesn't stop a threat, the P-32 should at least help provide cover while I get out of the immediate danger area.

The need for a BUG is likely very small, but the P-32 is so small and light, there's no reason not to carry it.

kngflp
July 2, 2005, 11:13 AM
The CZ Rami takes full size mags of the same caliber. The kel tec p-11 was also designed to take S&W 59 series mags.

Another nice thing about a back up gun is you can arm a buddy or loved one.

What are the chances a non LEO would get off after shooting 3 thugs in the back, even if they had shot him. Not saying I wouldn't do it, especially if I thought I was a goner, but what are the chances of getting away with it?

Oh, and to the original poster, with the large range of small guns in real calibers there is no reason not to carry a caliber that will effictivly do its job. A kel tec p-11 can be had for around $250 and with 11 rounds of 9mm is light enough that i forget its there. If you are going to carry, do it right.

Mannlicher
July 2, 2005, 02:28 PM
good question,

I carry a .38 Special as a back up. I agree, that toting a pipsqueak caliber makes no sense.
Course, there are a lot folks that carry a darn .22 or a .32 as their main squeeze. That makes no sense either. Oh well, different strokes.............

peacefuljeffrey
July 2, 2005, 06:09 PM
A retired Detroit police officer shot and killed a man and wounded two others early Thursday morning after being robbed outside an east side bar, police said.

Robert Strickland was walking toward the Elbow Lounge...

He was headed to go to the bar, and was carrying concealed firearms?

Is that legal where he lives? Even if he is allowed CCW in Detroit as an ex-cop, is he allowed to carry into a bar? I know that a lot of places prohibit that.


The teens fled. Strickland opened fire with two handguns he was carrying legally


Teens flee.
Victim fires.

Um, so now it IS okay to fire at fleeing felons once they have broken off their attack and turned their backs on you?

It's all so confusing!...

-Jeffrey

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