Black Talons not made since '96


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joab
July 2, 2005, 10:28 PM
Not because, as is the common perception, they killed too many cops.. But because they were instantly recognizable.
Ammo makers want anonymity, if you can't prove who made a bullet you can't sue the maker

Words of wisdom from Detective John, Butt, Munch of Law and Order.

Anybody else ever want to kick a TVs ass

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nico
July 2, 2005, 10:30 PM
I stopped watching law and order about 6 months ago. Which is saying a lot since I live at home and my parents watch it religiously (even the repeats :barf: )

HighVelocity
July 2, 2005, 10:31 PM
Haha, yeah I saw that. What kills me is that Ice-t is a cop on the show.

centac
July 2, 2005, 10:43 PM
"What kills me is that Ice-t is a cop on the show."

Right on - i wonder what the little hypocrite pulls down playin' da evvvvvull man.

The rounds instantly became much less lethal when renamed.

I just hope I'm raggin' on the right Ice - Vanilla, cube, T, they all start to run together.

EghtySx
July 2, 2005, 10:44 PM
I thought they were still made and just called SXT now ...

FUBlue
July 2, 2005, 11:26 PM
Yeah, at first they changed the name to Ranger SXT ""Law Enforcement"" ammunition, and recently they have changed the actual appearance of the rounds.
The black (left over from the BT days) bullet is now copper colored like everything else out there, and the gold case is now silver. I guess it looks a lot more friendly to all the sheeple out there.
The hollow point design itself, flesh-tearing claws :evil: and all, is the only thing that's left.

R.I.P. :( :( :(

joab
July 2, 2005, 11:58 PM
I just hope I'm raggin' on the right Ice - Vanilla, cube, T, they all start to run together I you're talking about the one that sparked the controversy over the kill the cops "song" yeah that's him. I still get a kick outta him playing a cop, almost as funny as watching him try to act.

joab
July 3, 2005, 12:01 AM
I usually don't watch TV I keep it on for background noise to drown out the tinnitus ring. But that exchange caught my ear.
Now I have to watch it to see if there any more righteous indignation inspiring exchanges

Joejojoba111
July 3, 2005, 02:02 AM
I don't have it bad, it's been getting better somehow, but when my ringing was really annoying I found water was the best medicine. It's not cool to leave a tap running into a sink though, but I see small fountains in some stores. I'd definately reccommend trickling water noise over crappy tv nosie :)

No_Brakes23
July 3, 2005, 02:33 AM
What kills me is that Ice-t is a cop on the show. He was a cop in New Jack City before he even wrote CopKiller.

joab
July 3, 2005, 08:12 AM
I'd definately reccommend trickling water noise over crappy tv nosie Bought one of those electric stone/slate fountains a couple oif days ago, just have'nt put it together yet, but it's gonna have to be loud

thebucket
July 3, 2005, 08:23 AM
I used to watch SVU. But then it got old. Same stories over again, with a different twist, the crimes growing more and more heinous, I grew tired of it. And of course, guns were not accurately portrayed. I remember one episode where Benson and Stabler are investigating a shooting. One looks at the victim with 3 bullets in his head and says something like, I bet those were hollowpoints, with disdain and frustation as if using FMJ's would have only bruised the victim. Another episode showed a homemade dum-dum which someone had filed notches into to improve expansion (?). I'm not sure a hack job like that would help a whole lot. But of course, the cops again expressed frustation.
It's my understanding that without medical attention, a hit to the vital organs with most any bullet is pretty deadly. A hollowpoint may incapacitate, kill, or stop faster than FMJ, but FMJ's are still bullets. In your vitals.

DigMe
July 3, 2005, 10:41 AM
What a very thinly veiled supportive argument for the serialization of bullets.

:barf:

brad cook

Hypnogator
July 3, 2005, 11:47 AM
Not that I wish to defend this particular bit of idiocy, but consider the source: Munch is a proponent of every crackpot conspiracy theory ever hatched. This fits right in with his more-than-slightly paranoid personality. :p

joab
July 3, 2005, 12:20 PM
Another episode showed a homemade dum-dum which someone had filed notches into to improve expansion (?). We used to to that with BP revolvers when I first started gettig into guns,listened to too many old war stories I guess. I was very underimpressed with the results.Munch is a proponent of every crackpot conspiracy theory ever hatched. Yea he's my favorite comedian now. I believe that Richard Belzer astually started out as comedian

Khaotic
July 3, 2005, 01:23 PM
He was a cop in New Jack City before he even wrote CopKiller.

He also played an ex-cop, cop-attitude character in Tank Girl.

Honestly he's not half bad as an actor, better (my opinion only) than he was as a musician, anyhow.

He apparently likes to play to a certain "perception" of the police, and he does a decent job of it - and yes, it's an intentionally biased perspective.

-K

Cesiumsponge
July 3, 2005, 01:44 PM
Temp thread hijack: Can a civilian buy Ranger SXT anywhere?

A gunstore/range (Bullseye) in Tacoma told me they'd sell to LEO only when it came to Ranger SXT. I asked why and they couldn't give me an answer (couldn't even make up a BS answer). I can find online sources that sell the low-recoil Federal LEO shotgun loads but I haven't tracked down a place that sells Ranger SXT.

Mute
July 3, 2005, 01:48 PM
Proload sells them but their website is down currently. Also, one of the forums own member sells Winchester Rangers:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145485&highlight=winchester+ranger

joab
July 3, 2005, 01:49 PM
Ranger SXT. I have seen it but honestly don't remember where.

I don't think that I would ever pay what I think I remember was the really high price for them.

As somebody else stated FMJ will get you out of most jams and what they won't HP will.

And I'm not totally willing to dismiss the theory that a DA can vilify a righteous shooting based on the use of certain ammo.

EghtySx
July 3, 2005, 01:50 PM
I found some on gunbroker and glocktalk. Mostly 9mm looks like. And pricey I bet. (I just saw it in a search engine)

BTW, Winchester's designation for it is RA??T
The ?? is caliber. i.e. RA9T for 9mm, RA45T for 45 etc.

joab
July 3, 2005, 01:51 PM
Just read Mute's post I guess we were writing at the same time.

I guess I was wrong on the high price

Cesiumsponge
July 3, 2005, 05:41 PM
Also, one of the forums own member sells Winchester Rangers: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.phpt=145485&highlight=winchester+ranger

Call me paranoid, but I'm just the slightest bit hesitant to purchase from a zero-post member who's first post is in the selling section.

bratch
July 3, 2005, 05:56 PM
If you are referring to 5532JWK run a search he has numerous good feedbacks on a wide variety of boards including this one. I've ordered from him myself with no problems.

HighVelocity
July 3, 2005, 05:56 PM
I've purchased Ranger T ammo from Jerry (5532JWK) and he's a stand up guy. Don't worry about his post count. He's got plenty of happy customers.

Cesiumsponge
July 3, 2005, 06:00 PM
Ahh, thanks for the votes of confidence; I didn't realize. I'll have to buy a box or two as a "present" for my friend and fire his 1911 :D

mtnbkr
July 3, 2005, 06:12 PM
Temp thread hijack: Can a civilian buy Ranger SXT anywhere?
My local shop will sell them to me without blinking an eye.

Chris

HighVelocity
July 3, 2005, 06:16 PM
I see it at gunshows sometimes and they sell to anybody.

PvtPyle
July 3, 2005, 08:50 PM
No, the BT's have not been made since their notoriety brought them into the spot light. But they do make the SXT which is also very good. You know what SXT means? Same eXact Thing.

Why anyone watches these pathetic shows is completely beyond me. They are guilty or sensationalism and putting out utter crap on good days. On bad days.......

atblis
July 4, 2005, 09:12 AM
Use a 45 or a 10mm and you won't need blacktalons/rangers or what ever. XTPs work great.

Dillon
July 4, 2005, 09:33 AM
I have bought ranger ammo from Jerry(5532jwk). No problems.

Kramer Krazy
July 5, 2005, 12:20 PM
I've got about 10 or so boxes of the original BT laying around. I think I have 4 boxes of 9mm, 2 boxes of 44Mag, 2 boxes of 357 Mag, and 2 boxes of 45ACP. I was inventorying them a week or two ago because of the prices I've seen them go for on Gunbroker.com and other places. I'm tempted on selling them and buying a couple thousand rounds of range ammo.

artherd
July 5, 2005, 02:33 PM
A retiring cop (no joke) gave me a bunch of 9mm ammo of various ages to use-up at the range.

Ended up with 2 boxes of origional black talons! (I'll hang onto those for postpertiy's sake.)

The Ranger SXTs (RA9TA 127gr +p+) is my carry ammo.

Spreadfire Arms
July 5, 2005, 02:35 PM
i found a box of 9mm 147 gr. Black Talons in my house, and someone ripped off ONE round out of it so its now 19 rounds ...... :cuss:

arrrrrrgh.

Kramer Krazy
July 5, 2005, 04:11 PM
i found a box of 9mm 147 gr. Black Talons in my house, and someone ripped off ONE round out of it so its now 19 rounds ......

You wanting a complete 20-round box for collectibility reasons or something? I think I have a couple of single BT cartridges in 9mm floating around. I know I have 4 single 45ACPs......I have no idea how I got some of these loose ones.

Spreadfire Arms
July 5, 2005, 07:34 PM
yes that would be great! all i need is one stinkin round!

MountainPeak
July 5, 2005, 08:05 PM
I use white out on my old Talons. Everyone is much safer now!!! :)

Sir Aardvark
July 5, 2005, 08:25 PM
Black Talon suffered from negative publicity.
Winchester finally got smart and just re-marketed them.
They are now called SXT, which stands for "Same eXact Thing".
They are no longer black, and they don't have the little "Talons" that pop out when the petals fold back on expansion.
Other than that, they are the same exact thing.

I've seen a video of a guy getting shot with SXT's. A Huntingto Beach, Ca SWAT member fired a 3-round burst into this knife wielding bad guy's chest from about maybe 10 feet away - dropped him right on the spot.
Of course, pretty much any bullet would probably have done the job, especially with a 3-round burst at 10 feet, but it was SXT's this time.

Logan5
July 6, 2005, 12:20 AM
In my local gunmonger's, where there are a lot of bizzare things, I recently noticed a case of the original Black Talons in .44 Magnum, over behind a case of 10ga black powder blanks. I have a couple of boxes of 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talons sitting around still, but I was a little surprised to learn that they'd been made in .44 Mag. What was the percieved demand for such a loading? Is that why I can still find a case of .44 Mag BT's, but not 9mm or .40?

nico
July 6, 2005, 01:09 AM
I'd think a .44mag black talon would make a decent round for deer.

I've been looking at defensive ammo, and this thread has me thinking I should buy the SXTs just on principle :D

artherd
July 8, 2005, 12:37 AM
They are no longer black, and they don't have the little "Talons" that pop out when the petals fold back on expansion.

Mine sure do have the little 'talons', RA9TA recent production.

artherd
July 8, 2005, 12:50 AM
They are no longer black, and they don't have the little "Talons" that pop out when the petals fold back on expansion.

Mine sure do have the little 'talons', RA9TA recent production.

Mute
July 8, 2005, 02:20 PM
The Ranger SXT's or Ranger T's do indeed have the talons. The Supreme SXT's which are the "civilian" versions do not have the talons. The Supreme SXT also do not seem to perform as well as the Ranger versions in terms of expansion and penetration.

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