New BreachersGrip Photos!


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CaCrusin
July 6, 2005, 07:00 PM
http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Products/images/BreacherCloseUp_Gear2.gif

Here are the latest photos of the Knoxx BreachersGrip PGO. It should be shipping, along with the SpecOps in mid-August or sooner.

CaCrusin :cool:

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mattw
July 6, 2005, 09:25 PM
mmm... no thanks.

jayhway
July 7, 2005, 12:32 AM
Nice pics. I'm looking at either getting a Breacher's grip or Copstock in the future.

The_Antibubba
July 7, 2005, 12:56 AM
Uh, what's it do?

Third_Rail
July 7, 2005, 01:06 AM
Recoil less than 50%.

Black Majik
July 7, 2005, 01:34 AM
that doesn't look very comfortable. :uhoh:

mattw
July 7, 2005, 01:42 AM
I bet its a trick, i've seen many handguns and stuff that i didn't think would be comfortable but they were.. i just don't like the way it looks and have no use for a pistol grip

CaCrusin
July 7, 2005, 02:40 PM
Uh, what's it do?
__________________
The Antibubba
*********************
Beyond just being a PGO shotgun stock, it allows anyone to easily control and shoot a shotgun one-handed. It absorbs recoil and reduces muzzle fip dramatically. I demo the stock by loading my 870 with 3" Magnum slugs and shooting at a 12" gong at 25 yards...one-handed. I can hit it every time. Don't try this with any other PGO. It works equally well using both hands. There are videos on the website that show it in action. It is very comfortable to use.

CaCrusin :cool:

RTFM
July 8, 2005, 11:01 AM
I'm just getting in to shotguns, but it appears to me to be a $100 doo-dad.
I watched the video and it looks like it takes longer to go from shot to shot with the one-handed-doo-ma-flichie than just shouldering a standard 870.

I could be wrong.

Third_Rail
July 8, 2005, 11:17 AM
You're absolutely correct - however...


Try storing a fully stocked shotgun in that little space. It's a specialty tool, that's all. Not useless, just limited application - breaching doors, car defense for those under 21 (legal or not), home defense for those under 21 (limited space, need to hide things in many places, etc)


To me, it's a pretty neat idea.

Jeff White
July 8, 2005, 02:15 PM
Third Rail called it right. This is a special purpose tool for ballistic breaching. It's about the only use I can think of for a PGO shotgun. Add a stand-off plate to the barrel and you're ready to remove doors from the hinges.

Not many people have use for a tool like that.

Jeff

RyanM
July 8, 2005, 10:20 PM
Hm, Breachergrip + http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

A match made in heaven?

pauli
July 10, 2005, 01:46 AM
you must have a pretty grim view of the afterlife...

Rupestris
July 10, 2005, 03:07 AM
I hate to say it but I kinda like the looks of that grip.
Can't say I like the extention off the back and I have little use for a PG shottie but the size/shape/grip angle of that PG attached to a shoulder stock would be nice for some applications. Turkey hunting while leaning against an unforgiving tree is one.

stellarpod
July 10, 2005, 09:22 AM
CaCrusin:

At the risk of being accused of hijacking this thread...

I've been eyeing the SpecOps stock for quite some time now with great anticipation, watching the ship dates continue to be delayed.

I have worked in the manufacturing segment for almost 30 years now, and I know that it can be a long, arduous task bring new products into production and into the marketplace. Just a friendly cautionary statement: Either you and your marketing group have gotten too far out ahead of your production people's capability, or your production people have failed to perform on their end.

I've watched your website, seen your ads for months and I've monitored your postings on this forum. The ads all suggest that the SpecOps is available NOW. IMHO you guys are coming perilously close to failing the credibility test on this product - not because of any performance issues, but because of an apparent lack of coordination between manufacturing and marketing.

These products appear to have great potential, especially if they perform as advertised, but I for one am beginning to lose patience. I have limited funds to spend on firearm-related items and I'm easily distracted to other purchases if I'm not able to get what I want when I want it. I'm sure I'm not alone on this.

stellarpod

CaCrusin
July 11, 2005, 12:44 PM
If you have been following my posts, then you would know that we have been held up by a metal casting company in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles who promised slides for the SpecOps in late March, then late May and now late July. I know how it looks but as the marketing guy, I have to believe my manufacturing guys and start the ball rolling. If you truly have been in the manufacturing arena then you have experiencved these kinds of delays. It is necessary to start advertising a new product several months before its' release. That's what we did. Unlike some companies who announce a product 2-3 years before release and build up a backlog of orders to convince an investor(s) to put in the money to built it, we were already to go into production. We have all of the parts except the slides but that part being missing means we can't ship to anyone.

The vast majority of our customers have been very supportive. A few have taken the delay personally and that is unfortunate.

When they are ready...we will ship.

CaCrusin :cool:

Snowdog
July 12, 2005, 12:44 PM
Seems to be an interesting device to say the least. I'm not certain that I understand exactly how it works, but it appears the shotgun recoils back under spring tension while the pistol grip remains stationary in the shooter's hand. If so, what are the chances that the inside front of the trigger guard could smack the outside shooter's trigger finger during recoil? I'm guessing that if this is indeed how it works, the reward travel isn't enough to pinch the finger between the grip and the inside of the trigger guard.

Seems I'm always the last to hear about new devices such as this. :( Thanks for the heads up.

CaCrusin
July 12, 2005, 01:17 PM
Snowdog, Your description of the action is very close to accurate. During recoil, the shotgun and the receiver extension (the part of the grip that is attached to the shotgun) moves rearward over the top of the grip about 1.2" and upward at a 15 degree angle. The angle reduces muzzle flip. As the slide moves rearward, the back half of the trigger guard does retract into the grip but your trigger finger cannot get pinched, even with heavy gloves. As the slide moves back, it contacts a roller, attached to a cam, attached to a lever, attached to an extension spring. The energy of the recoil is expended in the extension of the spring and overcoming the leverage of the lever. At the end of the recoil, the small amount of energy remaining in the spring is used to move the shotgun forward again, ready for the next shot.

The net peak recoil reduction for the pistol grip is over 55% and the felt recoil reduction is much higher than that. Part of the benefit of the system is that it slows down the recoil pulse by a factor of 12 to 15 times. This makes the pulse seem soft and gentle...even on the heaviest rifle or shotgun load. Also, the lighter the recoiling mass, the more effective the system is. In other words, the system is going to reduce recoil more on the 5 lb gun than the 10 lb gun. Imagine a 6 lb rifle in .375 H&H that feels like a .223!

CaCrusin :cool:

Snowdog
July 12, 2005, 01:22 PM
CaCrusin, thanks for detailed description of the operation. It appears there's a market for this device, so more power to 'em. Any move forward is usually a move in the right direction.

RevDisk
July 12, 2005, 08:30 PM
The net peak recoil reduction for the pistol grip is over 55% and the felt recoil reduction is much higher than that. Part of the benefit of the system is that it slows down the recoil pulse by a factor of 12 to 15 times. This makes the pulse seem soft and gentle...even on the heaviest rifle or shotgun load. Also, the lighter the recoiling mass, the more effective the system is. In other words, the system is going to reduce recoil more on the 5 lb gun than the 10 lb gun. Imagine a 6 lb rifle in .375 H&H that feels like a .223!

Not to depart from the High Road, and the physics looks like it should work... What independent testing has been done?

I'm a geek by trade. And often I work with defense contractors that try to push high tech equipment. Sometimes they work as advertised. Other times the lithium batteries are not properly sealed, and when wet (say, from rain?), happened catch on fire. When this lithium fire is strapped to your back, it is a might uncomfortable.

And that's just a radio. A widget that serves a very important part of a firearm should be even more rigerously tested. Bit obvious that.

So, I'm not trying to be rude, but I wouldn't trust it until I've seen it properly tested. Yanno, select a few randomly from a batch of a few hundred, beat the tar out of it, leave it in muddy water for a while, heat it up for a bit, then rapidly cool it down, stomp on it a bit more, then fire a few hundred (or thousand preferably) rounds through the weapon.

Any kind of testing like that? Confirmed by independent witnesses?

CaCrusin
July 13, 2005, 01:25 PM
Not to depart from the High Road, and the physics looks like it should work... What independent testing has been done?

<snip>

And that's just a radio. A widget that serves a very important part of a firearm should be even more rigerously tested. Bit obvious that.

So, I'm not trying to be rude, but I wouldn't trust it until I've seen it properly tested. Yanno, select a few randomly from a batch of a few hundred, beat the tar out of it, leave it in muddy water for a while, heat it up for a bit, then rapidly cool it down, stomp on it a bit more, then fire a few hundred (or thousand preferably) rounds through the weapon.

Any kind of testing like that? Confirmed by independent witnesses?

Yes, we have done all of those things and more. The effectiveness of the recoil-reduction system was put to the test by Browning Arms Laboratories at their request. Here are the results:

http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Products/images/Compgraph_NEW.jpg
This shows a direct comparison between a factory stock and the CompStock system using the same shotgun and load. The image is of the trace oscillascope readout. Durability testing on the mechanism was done in front of over 100,000 viewers at the 2003 SHOT Show. The device was placed in a machine that cycled it twice a minute continuously and counted each cycle. This is a test cycle that would never be found in real use. The mechanism worked continuously for 13,200 cycles when the spring broke from metal and heat fatique. We put a new spring on and continued for four days. Each time the spring failed at around 13.000 cycles. There was no wear on any other part. The polymer stocks are no different that any other synthetic stocks as far as materials go and we have a good history with our existing products. There has never been a materials-related failure on any of our stocks.

We test each stock by firing thousands of rounds of Federal Hi-Shok 3" magnum slugs and buckshot. We put them against a wall for maximum exposure to the recoil. Our stocks have been in mud and salt water. The US Dept of Homeland Security uses them (Border Patrol) with more agencies siging up daily.

Good question.

CaCrusin :cool:

loandr.
July 14, 2005, 08:58 AM
Im ready when you are sir....gotta be a big improvment over my current option (Which is still hands down better than the factory grip :-)

Loandr.
rnatkin@cfl.rr.com

The_Antibubba
July 16, 2005, 07:42 PM
As a resident of Kalifornistan, there aren't any pistolgrip shotguns in my immediate future. But it appears to me that a variation of that design could be made for a regular shoulder-mounted shotgun, which would allow faster followup shots in a SD situation. Any plans for such a thing, or does such a beastie already exist?

Third_Rail
July 16, 2005, 08:17 PM
Already exists. :)

http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/Products/Compstock.htm

RevDisk
July 18, 2005, 08:00 AM
CaCrusin, is their entire report available?

I'm sorry if I sound too untrusting, but I prefer to get as much info as possible before I make a purchase. And I'm very much tempted to buy a couple. Well, one at first. If I purchase one, I intend to 'vigorously' test it myself. (Bwahahaha!) I beat my weapons like they owe me money. :D

CaCrusin
July 18, 2005, 01:24 PM
CaCrusin, is their entire report available?

Oh ye of little faith... You will probably need to try one before you buy.

As a resident of Kalifornistan, there aren't any pistolgrip shotguns in my immediate future. But it appears to me that a variation of that design could be made for a regular shoulder-mounted shotgun, which would allow faster followup shots in a SD situation. Any plans for such a thing, or does such a beastie already exist?

We are domiciled in the California People's Republic. Our stocks (all of them) are legal here and in every state in the Union. The AWB applies to semi-auto shotguns, not pumps. The shoulder-mounted version of the BreachersGrip is the SpecOps stock. In fact, the BreachersGrip is made form SpecOps parts.

CaCrusin :cool:

RevDisk
July 18, 2005, 06:07 PM
Oh ye of little faith... You will probably need to try one before you buy.

Guess so.

loandr.
July 18, 2005, 06:22 PM
:D Im ready to order the full stock sir for a diff. gun than in pic, should i do so on the site or should i PM please?, interested in the pistol grip as well when available.
Loandr.

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