2-7 or 3-9 for an all-purpose AR15?


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GunGoBoom
July 6, 2005, 07:06 PM
What power scope for a 20" AR in .223 whose purposes, in order, are (a) hunting, (b) homeland defense, (c) 3-gun games. Because of (b) and (c), I'm liking a 2-7 (or possibly even a 1-4), but 3-9 has more total choices, and more economical choices. I do have a Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32 on my Saiga 308, which I like, and it's a good scope for the $190 it costs, but since 3-9s are so competitive in the marketplace, I'm thinking I could get a better quality scope in the 3-9 class for the same or less price than the elite 3200 2-7, and get 2x more upper power, so the question becomes, am I giving up much or only a little in terms of shooting fast and/or on the move, at close-in targets (50 yards or less) in going from a 2x min up to a 3x min? What are some good value 3-9s to consider if I go that route? Sightron, what? Looking to spend a max of $225 - $250. What are some other good 2-7s? I like the 1.75-6x Loopy vx3 a lot, but that's out of my price range at the moment.

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dolanp
July 6, 2005, 07:14 PM
The Leupold VX-I 3-9x is in that price range I believe.

beerslurpy
July 6, 2005, 08:13 PM
I have much love for my leupold scope, but the pricing of russian surplus military optics has made a convert of me. You get a lot of scope for the money and they work just fine on regular guns.

BillL223
July 6, 2005, 08:14 PM
I shoot 3-gun, my scoped rifle currently wears a Leupold VX2 1 X 4. Previously I used a 1.75 x 6. I found the 1.75 power to much for the many close targets you can have in a 3-gun match. 4 power is enough for plates @ 300 yards which is about the maximum range you can expect.

mattw
July 6, 2005, 08:16 PM
3-9.. you get more magnification and its only 1x above the 2x at lowest setting.

a 3x9x40 is all you need IMO unless you have a .50 BMG

kennedy
July 6, 2005, 08:32 PM
I use a 3x9x40 loupy(bought here for $180 used) on my armalite, great combination, best shooter I currently own.

AK103K
July 6, 2005, 08:41 PM
I've got a Leupold 1.5x5 on my flat top. At 1.5x you can snap shoot it and use it like "iron glass" and at 5x its plenty for longer shots.

Chris Rhines
July 6, 2005, 08:45 PM
For an AR? 1-4x, absolute maximum. Shooting even a 2x scope at close targets is a total nightmare. Look at the Leupold VX-II 1-4x.

- Chris

mattw
July 6, 2005, 08:47 PM
Just take it off for close targets... :rolleyes:

GunGoBoom
July 6, 2005, 09:06 PM
ok. AK103, which line of leupold is that 1.5-5 from? And what is the *actual* magnification of the "1.5"?

Chris, do you think a 1.5 would have the same drawbacks as a 2.0 for close-in targets in 3-gun? I kind of wanted a max of 6 or better for hunting situations...hmm. Ideally, a 1.0 - 6 would be nice. But one can't have their cake and eat it too can they?

sscoyote
July 6, 2005, 09:15 PM
3-9X Burris WITH BALLISTIC PLEX RETICLE!

mattw
July 6, 2005, 10:17 PM
depending on what you plan on hunting.. the 9x could really help with shot placement on bigger game (small deer for example)

AK103K
July 7, 2005, 05:04 AM
GunGoBoom,
This is what I have on mine.

http://www.leupold.com/products/images/Scopes/VX-III/VX-III_1_5-5x20_p.gif

http://www.leupold.com/products/products_highlights.asp

Chris Rhines
July 7, 2005, 07:33 AM
Chris, do you think a 1.5 would have the same drawbacks as a 2.0 for close-in targets in 3-gun? I kind of wanted a max of 6 or better for hunting situations...hmm. Ideally, a 1.0 - 6 would be nice. But one can't have their cake and eat it too can they? A 1.5x scope is not bad for close targets. 1.5x is about the maximum I'd accept. If you have the opportunity, try shooting a 1x scope side-by-side with a 1.5-3x scope at targets from 5 to 25 yards out. I bet you'll like the 1x better.

Worth noting - most 1x scopes are not a true 1x. They tend to have a little bit of magnification.

Taking the scope off for close targets is not an option - the only mounts that return to zero after removal are quite expensive, and GGB seems to be on a budget. A possible option would be to use a set of offset iron sights mounted to a float tube, like this: http://www.olyarms.com/?page=m3_FIRSH_accessories (scroll down to the bottom)
http://www.jprifles.com/DetachableSights.html

What would you be hunting with the AR?

- Chris

Henry455
July 7, 2005, 11:48 AM
Might take a look at Mueller Optic's line of scopes. I have their 2X7 mounted on an early SP1 and love it. I especially like the reticle. They are low cost but definately not cheaply made. They have a "review" link on there website that will direct you to some magazine reviews. http://www.muelleroptics.com/Site_Map.htm

Essex County
July 7, 2005, 12:47 PM
I believe it's too easy to over-scope. Tried a loops 2X7 for a while on an an AR Carbine. For it's intended use I went to a 2/12 weaver and I'm quite happy. You'd be suprised how well you can shoot with a scope with little or no magnification. Just my humble opinion...........Essex County

GunGoBoom
July 8, 2005, 10:30 AM
Ya know, Chris, in truth I probably wouldn't hunt much with it - just thought it would be neat to do so. Deer and pigs with head shots and good 77 grainers is what I was thinking. But I have several other 'standard' deer rifles (though none as light and handy). But that that is very helpful idea - that offset 45 degree angle short range iron rail - cept that my handguard is a standard one - not any holes on the side... I probably ought to just 1-4x or 1.5-5x the .223, and then get something like a 3-9 to put on my 6.5 grendel upper, when I eventually get that as I plan to. Henry, what specifically is it about the Mueller reticle that you like?

Also, Chris, on that link you gave, those SR1 scope rings there - they look good - would you recommended them, or another type, to get the scope up just high enough so that my fixed triangle front sight won't cloud up my scope picture?

AK, that loopy is a nice choice if I can afford it - the Leupold site says the actual magnif. is in fact "1.5", not 1.7 or some such.

AK103K
July 8, 2005, 12:06 PM
Mines a 1.5x5. Its been on a number of different rifles at this point and finally found a home on my Armalite. Its painted OD now too. It sits on low rings on an ARMS lever mount(which does repeat zero), so it will pop right off.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid169/p8366ce734247d1366c9d5de0ad0e2e56/f414a8ce.jpg

Chris Rhines
July 8, 2005, 07:46 PM
GGB -

I've never used the Olympic SR-1 rings, but I don't like aluminum scope rings in general.

My money-is-no-object choice for AR-15 rings would be the LaRue SPR/M4 QD mount (http://www.laruetactical.com/marketplace/servlet/Marketplaces?webEvent(ProductDetailAddPage,loadProduct)&productID=1851).

My economy-class choice would be a set of medium Burris Zee rings mounted to a YHM 7" extension rail, which will give you the needed scope height and eye relief.

- Chris

Kaylee
July 8, 2005, 08:56 PM
Personally, I was starting to find 3-9 a bit much even on my .30-06, and that was much more suited to the role of that scope.

I think I'm gonna agree with the 1x-something guys on this one. :)

GunGoBoom
July 8, 2005, 10:38 PM
Well, that settles it, a 1-4 or 1.5-5 it is, but...

Chris, that YHM extension rail - that's simply a riser rail for height, correct? Which adds weight. Instead of that an medium rings, would extra-high rings and no riser rail work? Do the Burriz Zees come in x-high? If so, seems like it would weigh less. Thanks for all your help.

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