[El Tejon]

Now that we have bullets in the air, is anyone else sick and tired of the media's incessant concern over the status of silly oil wells?

Young men have stepped into the yellow footprints to serve our nation and to kill our enemies at the risk of flying metal, but the meida chatters on about a few smokey fires.

[Blackhawk]

Had Fox News on. They don't seem to be obsessing about them.

[El Tejon]

Blackhawk, me too. He just reported about the fires for the 100th time. The embedded reporter with the Marines, "[w]e can see the glow from here." To which Shep sez, "I can see the fires too." Stooooop! Enough.

Who cares about the silly fires? This isn't a forest fire in California threatening a sushi bar, geez.

[Greybeard]

Their showing little jags of anti-war demonstrators in Kali and Chicago burns my buns worse than showing the oil well fires.

[Autolite]

During the past few weeks, the Bush government gave me the impression that the 'shock and awe' all-hell-breaks-loose thing was going to happen at the initial get-go. This is apparently not the case. I thought the whole country of Iraq was supposed to be pulverized by airstrikes before the ground war. The Marines and Army are already moving in. I'm not being critical of the operation, I just don't understand why Pres Bush seems to pulling his punches. I don't understand war strategies. Could someone clue me in on the rationale for what's been going on ???

[El Tejon]

Grey, I expect the rich, soft, spoiled children of privilege to act that way. I expect the American media to behave like Americans.

Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.:scrutiny:

[El Tejon]

Auto, we are hitting them with the flat of the sword. If we can separate the army from Baghdad, many lives (hopefully all Iraqi) will be saved and the nation can be freed and Saddam can assume the meat-hook-hanging position he so richly deserves.

If this does not work and out of stupidity or pride the Iraqi army does not return to the barracks, then shock and awe, followed by much death (them, not us).

[Blackhawk]

I think I've figured out the problem, El Tejon.

You're actually listening! :D

I just have it on and glance at the crawler every now and then. :rolleyes:

[El Tejon]

Blackhawk, I have to listen, that Lauri Dhue lovely is not on to break my heart. I only listen to CNN when Sonya Choi or Kelly Wallace are not on.

For some reason when they are on, they have my complete attention. Hmmm, the boys in marketing should be getting bonuses.

[waterdog]

Where is it written, that we must tell the enemy what we plan to do when we attack.

Most of what the prez, rumsfeld, and colin were saying, was for Saddam Hussiens ears.

It's called psywar. Sometimes a you can avoid, a knock down drag out fight by intimidation.

waterdog

[Mike Irwin]

Just saw on Fox News, via the Pentagon, that upwards 20% of the Iraqi army is surrendering up to this point.


Also saw on Fox that as dawn was coming up on Kuwait City there is a HUGE pall of smoke moving over.

As for the "shock & awe..."

It's looking more and more likely that it won't be necessary, or will only be necessary in very small, contained, areas.

Why blow the living hell out of the infrastructure if the troops defending it are surrendering faster than you expected?

[Tamara]

If I hear "Shock & Awe" from some network bubblehead one more time, I'm gonna hurl.

They hear the phrase from some Pentagon spokesdrone and scribble it down in their notebooks, then think they sound all Clausewitzian by repeating it.

"Uh, well Bob, I think that General Blastowitz is planning on using the classic Shock and Awe maneuver just like Hannibal did at Cannae..." :rolleyes:

Okay, rant over; I'm all better now.... :o

[labgrade]

Some areas are getting somewhat of a taste of "shock & awe." Those southern Iraqi artilery units that got targeted with our MLRS quit it about 45 seconds after launch.

That intial "homestead strike" certainly shocked those in-house.

We've some very savy folk doing the trageting & by how much - to date.

ET, I can relate. W/24/7 newzie accounts, they must fill the spaces with something - anything, at all.

Shot off an e-mail to Fox this AM expressing my disgust with all the stupid graphics that takes up 1/4 a TeeWee screen for something they allegedly wanted me to see - I can't do to the time, the network logo, the terror alert status, what the last guy just said, it's "an exclusive," ...

Sheesh. I can hardly see what they're showing for them tellin' me about it.

(they haven't listened yet .... ;) )

[Mike Irwin]

Quit yer bitching, Labgrade...

You always wanted a picture in picture TV! :D

[labgrade]

Never! Mike.

Last TeeWee I bought, I specifically told yon clerk-lass that I just wanted a monitor - dint even want the speakers - already got that with my "system." Wondering still why they're sellin' "home theater-ready" TeeWees w/built-in BS speakers .....

& the day I can't bitch is the day I die. :D

[coonan357]

And I thought I was the only guy here with male menapause here .... oh quitchabitchin and pass the chocalates .:D

[Kahr carrier]

Nope ,Not as much as those Anti-war protesters.:cuss:

[Soap]

You mean you guys don't care about the seagulls at a time like this? :confused: You are a heartless soul El Tejon! ;)

[buzz_knox]

Personally, I've got no problem with it. Imprint on the sheeple's minds that the oil fires are a bad thing, and remind them that Sodom Insane's responsibility for blowing them. Can't help but increase support levels.

[Don Gwinn]

What I can't get over with that "Shock und Awe und Sturm und Drang" stuff is the way they seem to be terribly disappointed that it hasn't happened yet. "This is a far cry from the Shock and Awe the government promised, Tim"
"Indeed it is, Stone. What do you think, Tad?"
"I think Wolf would be very disappointed at the lack of 'Shock and Awe,' Stone."
"Indeed."
:barf:

It's almost like Bush broke a campaign promise or something. We were promised Shock and Awe, and we demand Shock and Awe, durn it!

I can think of two reasons for this, neither very flattering to the 24-hour news geeks:

1. They think they can portray Bush, Rumsfeld and whoever else as weak for "promising" a massive attack and then scaling it back. Apparently they don't think much of our intelligence (what kind of blithering idiot would choose to kill more people and break more things when less would work as well?)

2. They're genuinely disappointed, because they thought "Shock and Awe" sounded like a strategy that would make compelling television viewing. I'm leaning toward this one. It does not encourage a high opinion of these wankers.

[cordex]

Heard "shock and awe" twice on the radio while reading this thread.

I read quickly.

Agree with ET, though. Don't really care all that much about oil fires when the arty is booming.

[Greg L]

S & A

I heard that a big portion of the shock & awe is 3000 cruise missles hitting at about the same time. If you don't have to light them off that is a $3 billion savings right there if you don't have to replace them(yes, yes, I know the .gov has never been too worried about spending our money).

I think that either we got SH with the initial burst and it really isn't needed now as we are in negotiations with Iraqi leadership on the terms of their surrender. Or it was part of the psy-op campaign and we'll hold this mysterious big stick over their heads while beating them up conventionally (you don't want to fight the next war the same way that you did the previous one). Or if all else fails we can always blow the crap out of them.

Greg

[Sean Smith]

We're doing the unexpected. It's called "strategy." :neener:

[buzz_knox]

As stated above, the overall S&A campaign was put on hold because it hasn't been necessary. The initial "head shot" we kicked this thing off with has been very effective, either in killing Sodom, some of his subordinates, or just disrupting things so much no one knows what to do. No reason to kill people or waste firepower if you don't have to.

This also perfectly demonstrates that we now have a CinC who is willing to take a chance, but is also letting the military fight the war the way it should be fought, with no micromanagement and literally, on the fly.

[Greybeard]

Just before 0900 CST, the wife and I were watching Fox when they switched back one more time to the (live) shot they had been showing for quite some time: a parked LAV with soldiers milling around and the oil well fire in the background.

Well, it seems nature had called and one of the soldiers had just walked off to the right of the little sand pile, dropped his drawers and starting to squat ... :D :D :D Wife came out of chair pointing and LOL. Fox switched to something else - quickly. :rolleyes: Anyone else catch that?

[buzz_knox]

So what? Crap happens. ;)

[Art Eatman]

Amazes me that the TVWorld pays so much money for unskilled labor!

:D, Art

[BenW]

CNN this morning had a headline stating "Marine killed while taking oil field." Once you read the report it states of course, that the marines were transiting the oil field. Duh -- I'm not sure you can get to any strategic locations in Iraq without crossing one oil field or another, since 75% of the country is geologically or politically an "oil field." Of course people who just read the headline will say, "See -- It IS just about oil!":rolleyes:

[Bainx]

Just like Desert Storm, Bechtel National will make a fortune at putting out these oil fires. You can bet, the deal has already been cut!

[BenW]

Apologies regarding my post above. After I posted I heard two independent stories that they were indeed securing a pumping station in that particular oil field. The other side distorts the truth enough, no need for me to help things along in that regard...:o

Think twice, post once
Think twice, post once
Think twice, post once...

[Don Gwinn]

That's right, Bainx, the whole war was undertaken to get some firefighting contracts for Cheney's old friends. Why didn't I think of that?

[Blackhawk]

What's driving me nuts are the amateurs in the field with satellite phones who get on the air with bad habits of the "uhs" and "ums". Don't they have to go through Public Speaking classes before checking out a microphone? :banghead:

[Bainx]

No Don, just making a point. I have read the book about them [Bechtel] "Friends In High Places" and I invite you to also.

[Don Gwinn]

OK, Bainx, but "just making a point" doesn't explain it. We know you were making a point. :) I'm asking whether that's the point you were trying to make, because that's certainly what I got out of it. SeewhatImean?

[Bainx]

....I told ya so!
As Rush says "I know these people!"

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/business/article/0,1406,KNS_376_1897307,00.html

Bechtel gets Iraq contract
Initial $34.6 million pact could go to $680 million before rebuild is done

By LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press
April 18, 2003

WASHINGTON - The government awarded Bechtel Corp. a contract on Thursday that could reach $680 million to help rebuild Iraq, including the nation's power, water and sewage systems.

The U.S. Agency for International Development said the initial contract was for $34.6 million but it could be worth the larger figure over 18 months, subject to congressional approval.

Several Democratic lawmakers have complained the Bush administration did not allow open competitive bidding but rather invited a small number of firms to submit proposals. USAID has defended the procedure as the only way to get help to Iraq quickly.

In East Tennessee, Bechtel has a major presence in Oak Ridge, where it is involved in the management of the Y-12 nuclear weapons plant and other operations for the U.S. Department of Energy. Bechtel Jacobs, a partnership with Jacobs Engineering, manages DOE's environmental cleanup program.

The company has employed several officials after they left high government jobs, including former Secretary of State George Shultz and former Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger,

The Bechtel Group and its employees have been among the biggest political givers in the general contracting industry, according to an analysis by the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan Washington-based group that tracks campaign finance.

The company and its workers contributed at least $277,050 to federal candidates and party committees in the last election cycle, about 57 percent to Democrats and 43 percent to Republicans, the center found.

In addition to Bechtel's work on utility systems, the contract also provides for rehabilitation or repair of airport facilities and dredging, repair and upgrading of the Umm Qasr seaport in cooperation with other contractors, the assistance agency said.

Bechtel also may have a role in repair and reconstruction of hospitals, schools, selected government ministry buildings, irrigation facilities and transportation links.

The agency said Bechtel probably would hire subcontractors for many of the projects.

"Through all of its activities, it will also engage the Iraqi population and work to build local capacity," the announcement said.

"Bechtel is honored to have been asked by USAID to help bring humanitarian assistance, economic recovery and infrastructure reconstruction to the Iraqi people," said Tom Hash, president of Bechtel National, Inc.

The question of who rebuilds Iraq has divided the president's advisers and even the two major coalition partners in the current war, the United States and Britain. British Prime Minister Tony Blair has sought deeper U.N. involvement in postwar Iraq than President Bush.

[Bruce H]

Well Bainx which would you rather have, Bechtel putting out the fires, or Michael Moore doing a documentary on them?

[Greybeard]

Quote: "Initial $34.6 million pact could go to $680 million before rebuild is done. "

Pocket change in the league of major contractors - and potential work to be done in Iraq.

Small potatoes for those guys, who have a reputation of getting the big projects done and moving on to another one. Work must be slow for them to fool with such. Or maybe doing someone a favor ...