BREAKING NEWS -- Possible Terrorist Attack in London


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David
July 7, 2005, 06:44 AM
Series of explosions on the subway and buses in London -- injuries reported -- reported on CNN, MSNBC and FOX news.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1523084,00.html

Many hurt in London blasts

Sarah Left and agencies
Thursday July 7, 2005

Many people were hurt today in a major incident on the London transport network as at least two explosions were reported on the tube, at least two buses were ripped apart in suspected bomb blasts and London's transport network was plunged into chaos.
Union officials said their sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground. A Sky News producer who was evacuated from Kings Cross and was walking towards Russell Square also reported seeing an explosion on a bus. He said the blast was caused by a bomb, and said people with "blood injuries" emerged from the bus. Scotland Yard could not immediately confirm the report.

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Joejojoba111
July 7, 2005, 06:52 AM
And they're just about to vote on national ID cards, I wonder how that will go.

steveno
July 7, 2005, 06:57 AM
must have been the French for losing the Olympics in 2012

280PLUS
July 7, 2005, 07:07 AM
Lovely world we're living in.

I wonder if the British population is going to reject gun control and arm themselves now.

c_yeager
July 7, 2005, 07:11 AM
I wonder if the British population is going to reject gun control and arm themselves now.

I would be more inclined to expect upcoming restrictions on the purchase of fertalizer and plumbing materials.

Azrael256
July 7, 2005, 07:34 AM
Evidently it was initially thought to be a power surge. The count appears to be five underground stations. I guess the buses exploding cleared up the power surge confusion. Evidently one of the stations was a particularly bad situation.

I guess we're lucky. We hosted a G8 summit, and all we got were some lousy protests. Just wait, though. Next major economic summit here, and it'll happen. Or maybe it'll just happen on a random thursday. Anyway, if it happens in London, it'll happen here. It's not The Big One(tm) I'm worried about, it's a whole mess of little ones like this. Coming to a crowded metropolis near you.

iapetus
July 7, 2005, 07:48 AM
I'm in UCL (University College London) at the moment, which is near some of the stations hit. Fortunately I wasn't near any of them when they were, and haven't seen any of the actual damage.

The first I heard of it was when I got off my bicycle to let some police cars past, and another cyclist with a radio doing the same told me there were "unconfirmed reports of bombs on buses and the tube [subway]".

As I got further into London, there were more and more police cars, ambulances and fire engines tearing about and helicopters above, and several of the roads I normally take were sealed off. (Although in one case, outside Waterloo Station, it appears this was due to a "suspicious package" rather than an actual explosion).

Eventually the roads became so gridlocked that I had to dismount and walk. (I've often found that a bike is the best means of getting around in London because of its flexability and immunity to gridlock. Its unfortunate that "not a target" can now be added to the list).

ACORN
July 7, 2005, 08:00 AM
Terrible news, I wonder if there will be attacks here in the US today also. Al Qaeda is known for co-ordinated attacks. I'd be leery if I had to take mass transit. God help the victims of this attack.

TheOtherOne
July 7, 2005, 08:05 AM
What do terrorists have against G8 or is it just coincidence they chose this day?

roo_ster
July 7, 2005, 08:08 AM
My prayers go out to the Brits effected by this viciousness.

I hope we'll see some backbone and steely-eyed determination, rather than the Spanish alternative to courage.

Of course, I expect America & GWB's administration to spare no effort in assisting the UK in hunting down the perpetrators and dealing with them out of hand.

280PLUS
July 7, 2005, 08:12 AM
I wish to express my sincere condolences to our British friends.

I feel I should say more but I have no idea what.

:(

TarpleyG
July 7, 2005, 08:15 AM
My question is do we believe this is the work of some Islamic terrorist organization or the handywork of some tree-hugging-liberal types with a gripe about the economic summit?

Greg

Norton
July 7, 2005, 08:16 AM
Wow....this is scary stuff....we are seeing pictures of places we walked and visited during our trips there. It appears that the bus explosion occured at Russell Square which is where we stayed on our second trip :eek:

I hope that this is as bad as it gets and that nothing else happens.

Guess this is a message to review my car bags and home preps.

NC Shooter
July 7, 2005, 08:23 AM
My thoughts and prayers go out to the British people. We know how you feel.

I hope we help England as much as they have helped us over the last few years.

Preacherman
July 7, 2005, 08:29 AM
Expect the casualty figures to get much worse... there are several rail cars in tunnels that were hit by bombs, and reports from survivors who walked past these cars speak of them being filled with wounded and/or motionless figures.

I'm not surprised by this attack: given that Britain is an ally in Iraq, it was only a matter of time. Now we'll see whether the British electorate goes Spanish, as in getting rid of their government, or has a spine and strikes back against terror.

agricola
July 7, 2005, 08:34 AM
preacherman,

I would not put any money behind that, if I were you.

Albert Shear
July 7, 2005, 08:41 AM
A terrorist act does not have to be committed by a Muslim group to be labeled terrorism. If in fact it was the protest group against the G8 then they should be hunted with all means necessary available to bring them to justice as any terrorist organization should.
My heartfelt sympathies to the survivors, families and friends and the British people on this sad day.
To know the heights of wonderous things man is capable of achieving, yet all we seem to do is destroy each other. How sad.

280PLUS
July 7, 2005, 08:43 AM
it was only a matter of time.
The same would apply to the U.S. I'm afraid.

To know the heights of wonderous things man is capable of achieving, yet all we seem to do is destroy each other. How sad.
+1

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 08:45 AM
Fox News TV is reporting that a group is taking credit for the bombs "in the name of Al Qaeda."

Also reporting that two London hospitals are reporting at least 185 wounded.


hillbilly

c_yeager
July 7, 2005, 08:50 AM
Fox News TV is reporting that a group is taking credit for the bombs "in the name of Al Qaeda."

That "in the name of Al Qaeda" thing almost makes me think that its some form of misguided domestic group of whackos. Kinda like many of the domestic groups in the 60s and 70s commiting crimes "in the name of southeast asia".

Politically speaking, if it turns out to be domestics its really going to hurt the Brittish anti-war movement. The English ran out of tollerance for domestic terrorist a LONG time ago.

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 08:55 AM
This article was written back in early 2004.


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/10329634?version=1


Terror on the dole
By David Cohen, Evening Standard
20 April 2004
Four young British Muslims in their twenties - a social worker, an IT specialist, a security guard and a financial adviser - occupy a table at a fast-food chicken restaurant in Luton. Perched on their plastic chairs, wolfing down their dinner, they seem just ordinary young men. Yet out of their mouths pour heated words of revolution.

"As far as I'm concerned, when they bomb London, the bigger the better," says Abdul Haq, the social worker. "I know it's going to happen because Sheikh bin Laden said so. Like Bali, like Turkey, like Madrid - I pray for it, I look forward to the day."

"Pass the brown sauce, brother," says Abu Malaahim, the IT specialist, devouring his chicken and chips.




"I agree with you, brother," says Abu Yusuf, the earnest-looking financial adviser sitting opposite. "I would like to see the Mujahideen coming into London and killing thousands, whether with nuclear weapons or germ warfare. And if they need a safehouse, they can stay in mine - and if they need some fertiliser [for a bomb], I'll tell them where to get it."

His friend, Abu Musa, the security guard, smiles radiantly. "It will be a day of joy for me," he adds, speaking with a slight lisp.

As they talk, a man with a bushy beard, dressed in a jacket emblazoned with the word "Jihad", stands and watches over them, handing around cups of steaming hot coffee. His real name is Ishtiaq Alamgir, but he goes by his adopted name, Sayful Islam, meaning "Sword of Islam". He is the 24-year-old leader of the Luton branch of al-Muhajiroun, an extremist Muslim group with about 800 members countrywide, who regard Osama bin Laden as their hero.

Until recently, nobody took the fanatical beliefs of al-Muhajiroun too seriously, believing that a British-based group so brazenly "out there" could not be involved in something as "underground" as terrorism. The group is led by the exiled Saudi, Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad, from his base in north London. Yesterday, in a magazine article, Bakri warned that several radical groups are poised to strike in London.

For all its inflammatory rhetoric, al-Muhajiroun has never been linked to actual violence. Yet, with the discovery last month of half-a-tonne of ammonium nitrate fertiliser - the same explosive ingredient used in the Bali and Turkey terror attacks - and with the arrest of eight young British Muslims in London and the South-East, including six in Luton, extremist groups such as al-Muhajiroun are under the spotlight like never before.

Detectives fear that the "enemy within", the homegrown extremists leading apparently normal lives in suburbia, now pose the greatest threat to security in Britain. Sayful and his friends fit this "homegrown" profile: three were born here, two came as young children from Pakistan; all were educated in local Luton schools; and they grew up in families of full employment - one of their fathers is a retired local businessman, two are engineers, and two worked in the local Vauxhall car plant.

The question is: how worried should we be? Is al-Muhajiroun nothing more than a repository for disaffected Muslim youths who have adopted an extreme interpretation of Islam - perhaps to cock a snook at the white establishment - but who are essentially posturing? Or does the group also perform a more sinister function, sucking in alienated young men and brainwashing the more impressionable into becoming future suicide bombers?

Although none of the arrested Muslims - aged 17 to 32 - appear to be current al-Muhajiroun members, rumours have circulated of informal links to the group. Moreover, parents of the arrested men have spoken anxiously of the "radicalising influence" of al-Muhajiroun militants who " corrupt" their children at mosques.

Nowhere has this public confrontation between radicals and moderates been more apparent than in Luton, which has the highest density of Muslims in the South-East - 28,000 out of a total population of 140,000 - and has long been regarded as a hotbed of extremism.

Sayful Islam, for one, is particularly proud of his contribution to Luton's hardline reputation. His exploits include covering the town with " Magnificent 19" posters glorifying the 11 September suicide bombers. "When I joined al-Muhajiroun four years ago, there were five local members," he says. "Now there are more than 50 and hundreds more support us."

The strange thing is that four years ago, Sayful Islam was a jeans-clad student completing his degree in business economics at Middlesex University in Hendon, north London.

The son of a British Rail engineer who came to this country from Pakistan, Sayful grew up in a moderate, middle-class Muslim family in Luton. At the local Denbigh High School, he is remembered as one of the smartest kids, and was selected to attend a science masterclass at Cambridge University. He would go on to marry, have two children and find work as an accountant for the Inland Revenue in Luton. He was thoroughly uninterested in politics.

THEN he met Sheikh Omar Bakri Mohammad at a local event. Within two years, he had swapped his decently paid job as an accountant for an unpaid one as a political agitator. What turned him into an extremist? And how far is he prepared to go to achieve his aims?

Prior to seeing the group at the fastfood restaurant, Sayful meets me at his semi-detached rented home in Bury Park, Luton's Muslim neighbourhood. He no longer works, even though he is able-bodied, he admits, preferring instead to claim housing benefit and jobseeker's allowance. He smiles sheepishly and says the irony is not lost on him that the British state is supporting him financially, even as he plots to "overthrow it".

"I made a decision that I wanted to follow what Islam really said," Sayful begins, sitting on his sofa in his thowb (a traditional robe) and bare feet. "I went to listen to all the local imams, but I found their portrayal of Islam was too secularised. When I heard Sheikh Omar [the leader] of al-Muhajiroun speak, it was pure Islam, with no compromise. I found that appealing.

"At the same time," continues Sayful, "wars were happening in Bosnia, Kosovo, Chechnya, Afghanistan. People were being oppressed simply because they were Muslim. Although I had never experienced racism in the UK, it opened the eyes of a lot of Muslims, including mine."

But it was the events of 11 September that crystallised Sayful's worldview. "When I watched those planes go into the Twin Towers, I felt elated," he says. "That magnificent action split the world into two camps: you were either with Islam and al Qaeda, or with the enemy. I decided to quit my job and commit myself full-time to al-Muhajiroun." Now he does not consider himself British. "I am a Muslim living in Britain, and I give my allegiance only to Allah."

According to Sayful, the aim of al-Muhajiroun ("the immigrants") is nothing less than Khilafah - "the worldwide domination of Islam". The way to achieve this, he says, is by Jihad, led by Bin Laden. "I support him 100 per cent."

Does that support extend to violent acts of terrorism in the UK?

"Yes," he replies, unequivocally. "When a bomb attack happens here, I won't be against it, even if it kills my own children. Islam is clear: Muslims living in lands that are occupied have the right to attack their invaders.

"Britain became a legitimate target when it sent troops to Iraq. But it is against Islam for me to engage personally in acts of terrorism in the UK because I live here. According to Islam, I have a covenant of security with the UK, as long as they allow us Muslims to live here in peace."

HE USES the phrase "covenant of security" constantly. He attempts to explain. "If we want to engage in terrorism, we would have to leave the country," he says. "It is against Islam to do otherwise." Such a course of action, he says, he is not prepared to undertake. This is why, Sayful claims, it is consistent, and not cowardly, for him to espouse the rhetoric of terrorism, the "martyrdom-operations", while simultaneouslylimiting himself to nonviolentactions such as leafletting outside Luton town hall.

He denies any link between al-Muhajiroun and the Muslims arrested in the recent police raids. But, as I later discover at the fastfood restaurant, not everyone attaching themselves, however loosely, to al-Muhajiroun draws the same line. Two members of the group - Abu Yusuf, the financial adviser, and Abu Musa, the security guard - scorn al-Muhajiroun as "too moderate".

"I am freelance," says Abu Yusuf, fixing me with his piercing brown eyes. What does that mean? I ask.

"The difference between us and those two," interjects Abu Malaahim, pointing to Musa and Yusuf, "is that us lot do a verbal thing, [but] those brothers actually want to do a physical thing."

Referring to the latest truce offered by Bin Laden, and Britain's scathing rejection of it, Abu Malaahim adds: "He tried to make a peace deal. When terrorism happens, you will only have yourselves to blame."

How far are you prepared to go? I ask.

"You want to know how far I will go," says Abu Musa, his high-pitched lisp rising an octave. "When Allah said in the Koran 'kill and be killed', that's what I want. I want a martyr operation, where I kill my enemy."

Are you saying, I probe, that you are looking to kill people yourself ? "Yes," Abu Musa says, "to kill and to be killed." He emphasises each word.

What's stopped you doing it? "As you know from watching the news," intones Abu Yusuf, "there are brothers who do leave the country and do it." He is referring to the four Muslims from Luton who died fighting for the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the two British Muslims, said to have had ties to al-Muhajiroun, who last April left to become suicide bombers in Israel. "In-shallah [ Godwilling], there will be a time to go."

It is hard to know whether Musa and Yusuf are deadly serious or just pumped full of misguided, youthful bravado. Though I see coldness - even ruthlessness - in their eyes, I sense no malice. Both young men agree, perhaps foolishly, to be quoted using their real names, though they decline photographs - thus illustrating their uncertainty of which way to jump.

Muhammad Sulaiman, president of the Islamic Cultural Society, the largest of the 14 mosques in Luton, dismisses al-Muhajiroun as "verbal diarrhoea".

"They are an extreme Right-wing group - the Muslim version of the BNP," he says disdainfully. "They think Muslims should dominate, just like the BNP thinks whites should dominate. They use Islam as a vehicle to promote their distorted beliefs, particularly to unemployed young bloods who are vulnerable."

ALTHOUGH unemployment in Luton is just six per cent, the rate among Muslim youths is estimated at 25 per cent. "They are no more representative of our Muslim community than the BNP are of the white community."

Sulaiman insists that Sayful Islam and his crew are not welcome at the mosque. He cannot prevent them praying there, but he will never give them a platform. "I've told Sayful to bugger off and ejected him many times," he says brusquely. "Even Sayful's father, who I know well, thinks his son has been brainwashed."

But Sayful and his friends laugh at the idea that they are local pariahs. "The mosques say one thing to the public, and something else to us. Let's just say that the face you see and the face we see are two different faces," says Abdul Haq. "Believe me," adds Musa, "behind closed doors, there are no moderate Muslims."

They also mock the idea that they are attracted to al-Muhajiroun because they have suffered alienation from white society. "Do we look like scum?" they ask. "Do we look illiterate?"

As they call for the bill, Abu Malaahim flicks open his 3G mobile phone and, with a satisfied grin, displays the image, downloaded from the internet, of an American Humvee burning in Iraq.

Abu Yusuf says: "That's nothing. I downloaded the picture of the four burnt Americans hanging from the bridge." It's oneupmanship, al-Muhajiroun style.

Sayful, the only married one in the group, prepares to go home to his wife and children. Before he departs, he says he has a message to deliver.

"I want to warn that the police raids - if repeated - could create a bad situation.

"Islam is not like Christianity, where they turn the other cheek. If they raid our homes, it could lead to the covenant of security being broken.

"Islam allows us to retaliate. That would include" - he tugs his "Jihad" coat tight against the night air - "by violent means."

El Tejon
July 7, 2005, 08:58 AM
One thing always holds true: terrorists always repeat successes. Madrid will have many children. :uhoh:

Hope our friends and friends of friends are all sound as a pound. My cousin is back in the Motherland this summer, hope he is well.

pythonguy
July 7, 2005, 08:59 AM
England and the US know who the enemies are, be they muslim or communist, or radicals (liberals). These two great Countries do not back down and will not now. Before leaping to any conclusions about who did it, lets let the evidence speak for itself and wait for the truth, then respond accordingly. Spain and France will have no stomach for any response, they hate America and England for the most part anyway, so lets forget about those that forgot us and do what has to be done, support the US and the UK. And lets NOT forget to show the french and spanish we don't appreciate their lack of support by NOT buying any of their goods and services. No travel to their stinking countries, no buying of their exports, that they'll understand. Both countries have been "crying" as late that their tourist business has been way down, and france lost the olympic bid yesterday, no coincidence, just payback.

Kaylee
July 7, 2005, 08:59 AM
To our British members --

I know money can't solve every problem, but if there's anything regular citizens on this side of the pond can do to help London now, please know you have only to ask.

You stood with us on 9/11, we'll stand with you now. Of that I'm certain.

God bless you and yours.

Frandy
July 7, 2005, 09:00 AM
What do terrorists have against G8 or is it just coincidence they chose this day?

Are you being serious or sarcastic? The roots of international terrorism can be argued ad nauseum, but there is no doubt that many international terrorists see the leading industrial/post industrial nations as the "cause" of their pains throughout the undeveloped world. Attacking the host of the G8, who is also an ally of ours in the Iraq war, and now has the Olympics for 2012 (that is coincidental but still significant in terms of security issues) seems logical. How safe are our urban subways and buses? Stay tuned...and locked and loaded.

Sympathies to all Brits, especially the families of those killed and all who were hurt.

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 09:03 AM
Fox News is now citing an "Al Arabia" story stating that a "jihad cell of Al Qaeda" is claiming resposibility for the attack.

hillbilly

TarpleyG
July 7, 2005, 09:04 AM
Just heard on radio that al Qaeda is claiming responsibility and that the bomb on the bus was a homicide (suicide) bomber. F 'em. I am still calling for a series of tactical nuclear strikes throughout the middle east until they are no more or agree to stop this ?????.

Greg

Don Gwinn
July 7, 2005, 09:05 AM
I'm on my way out the door for my morning bike ride, but I didn't want to go without sending out my hope that all our UK members are safe and that Britain is able to find and destroy the people who did this.

British High Roaders, the world is watching and we're with you.

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 09:16 AM
Welcome to World War IV, boys and girls.

Althought it's been going on since about 1998 and the US was just too steeped in the self-absorbed narcissism of the Clinton years to notice.

I just listened to Tony Blair, who was visibly upset at the end of his short remarks, and he said that the attack was not just on his country, but on all civilized countries, and that the terrorists (jihadists) had no respect for human life.

Of course, folks who've been saying such stuff in the US lately are all just tools of the Bush administration or nothing but Rush Limbaugh ditto-heads.

It's all about oil, you know. Oil pipelines in Iraq and Afghanistan....Michael Moore said so.

It's got nothing to do with a bloodthirsty worldview that calls for slaughtering the infidels merely because they are infidel non-believers.

It's all oil and Halliburton and George Bush trying to feel adequate.

Ignore 9-11 and Madrid and the Beslan school massacre and the Bali bombings and the beheadings in the Philippines and in Thailand and even today in London.

It's just what the developed countries deserve........because afterall, as Ward Churchill said, chickens come home to roost and people push back....



I'm sorry London experienced this.

But I do hope that a lot of people who were previously ignorant of reality now get it, today.

Recognize the enemy. And destroy him with all prejudice.

hillbilly

TheOtherOne
July 7, 2005, 09:20 AM
Are you being serious or sarcastic? The roots of international terrorism can be argued ad nauseum, but there is no doubt that many international terrorists see the leading industrial/post industrial nations as the "cause" of their pains throughout the undeveloped world. Attacking the host of the G8, who is also an ally of ours in the Iraq war, and now has the Olympics for 2012 (that is coincidental but still significant in terms of security issues) seems logical. How safe are our urban subways and buses? Stay tuned...and locked and loaded.Okay, I didn't know much about what G8 was but I honestly thought it was all about giving aid to Africa. I just couldn't understand why they would want to kill the British people for that. Obviously there is more to it than that but I guess they really just will use anything as a reason to try and justify their warped mass-murder plans.

nico
July 7, 2005, 09:47 AM
Okay, I didn't know much about what G8 was but I honestly thought it was all about giving aid to Africa.
it's not about what they were meeting to do. They see the G8 countries as being evil. If a group of people is evil, and you're looking to attack them, would it matter if they're getting together to bake cookies if you can get an opportunity to attack them?

CombatArmsUSAF
July 7, 2005, 09:56 AM
It happened again.

Our enemy:
- Almost impossible to find
- Doesn't care about engaging innocent civilians
- Religous Fanatics
- Will fight to the death (Suicide Bombers)
- Believes that death is a good thing (72 Virgins)
- Is in every city in every country in the world.

The day will come when across the world we will lose hundreds of thousands of people. France, Spain, and all of the other idiots that think they won't be involved are dead wrong.

We need to wake up and smell the folgers boys and girls. Because if we don't we are going to get a good swift kick to the juevos to wake us up.

The reason everybody is going to be invovled is that our enemy believes that if you are not a hardcore islamist, you are the infidel. Sounds kinda like something that happened in germany about 60 years ago. (Master Race)

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 09:58 AM
Al Qaeda and Hezbollah and all the other rat-infested jihadist organizations have been saying what they believe for years and years and years.

Only a few folks have finally learned the hard way to take them at their twisted word.

When these camel-humpers say that they want to kill all non-fundamentalist Muslims precisely because they are non-Muslim or non-fundamentalist, they actually friggin' mean it.

Get a 911, Beslan, Bali, Madrid, London, First WTC attack, USS Cole, Philippines, head-chopping propaganda video, suicide-bombing clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many mass casualty events will it take for some folks to finally connect the blood-stained dots together????????????

hillbilly

TrybalRage
July 7, 2005, 10:07 AM
And the reaction of all the governments involved will be (and has been) to lock down on the populace. Nice.

mpthole
July 7, 2005, 10:12 AM
Prayers out to our British members.

Joey101
July 7, 2005, 10:41 AM
That's alright, you know when the Suicide Bombers find out that there is no "72 Virgins" we'll see who's sorry. "Where's my 72 Virgins , and why is it so hot in here?" :fire:

I am outraged by this, but you know WWIV or not, we should just take that whole part of the world off the map!!

I hate politics so I'm not going to get all worked up about this. But it almost makes me made and sick to my stomach as when I saw Nick Berg get his head cut off. :barf:

Master Blaster
July 7, 2005, 10:50 AM
IT amazes me that these folks have been telling us that they want us dead for 20 years now and doing their best to make that happen. And there are still folks who believe that we can make peace, negotiate, reason or lend economic aid to these A-holes and they will stop killing us.

Wake up folks the only thing these Islaamic A-holes want is our life and the lives of our families.

They WANT US DEAD ALL OF US.

There is no way to negotaite or reason with these A-holes.

This is exactly what Israel is facing as well.

You cant negotaite with creatures whose only negotiating position is that you must all die.

roo_ster
July 7, 2005, 10:54 AM
.... to avoid mass transit.

I'll keep my pollutant-generating automobile, thank you very much.

Expect something similar in America. We have thousands of such jihadis here and tens of thousands of sympathyzers they can use to blend in. Richardson, TX, is chock full of them.

Thank you, Immigration Act of 1965.

Matt G
July 7, 2005, 10:56 AM
Now, damn it-- I was pissed when I got here about the bombings, but I'm more pissed now.

Just because some Muslim extremists want to kill us does not mean that Muslims are murderers who want to kill infidel non-Muslims.

The logic doesn't work. It's similar to a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. I'm not going to let this turn into a religion v. religion argument.

Be furious at Al Quieda. I know I am. The barbarians have stuck again, and this time even used time bombs (they didn't even show their faces here!). We can't fight them toe-to-toe. We need to find a better way.

In the mean time, my heart goes out to the people of London, and all of England and Great Britain. Keep your chins up. We and the world are watching you, and are with you.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 7, 2005, 11:06 AM
To our friends across the pond .. our sympathies and never failing support.

To our Muslim enemies ... we're still coming. Better dig a deeper hole.

To the religion v religion caution. I don't care what religion anyone is, but I am still waiting for outrage from the Mosques over the 9/11 attacks.

Still waiting...

Here is a suggestion. We know who the "suspected" terrorists and jihadis are, pick em up or eliminate them with extreme prejudice. Tell the rest of the Muslim world to police themselves or Mecca becomes a smoking hole of glass in the desert.

El Rojo
July 7, 2005, 11:13 AM
The news anchor on the CBS morning news just made a brilliant comment. "London has such a large number of camera systems in place, so with this kind of security you would think London would be safe." Security cameras do nothing but help you solve crimes, period. As is apparent by today, they don't serve as a very large deterrent.

Balog
July 7, 2005, 11:21 AM
Apparently the private comm assets in London were down after this happened. CNN reports the largest cell provider (Vodaphone) lent out most of it's assets to the .gov.

My sympathies to London. Anyone know how our Brit members are doing?

longeyes
July 7, 2005, 11:30 AM
I wonder if the British population is going to reject gun control and arm themselves now.

A mass conversion to Islam is more plausible.

Werewolf
July 7, 2005, 11:33 AM
Here is a suggestion. We know who the "suspected" terrorists and jihadis are, pick em up or eliminate them with extreme prejudice.There is a remote possibility that this is actually happening now; an even less remote possibility that it will happen in the future.Tell the rest of the Muslim world to police themselves or Mecca becomes a smoking hole of glass in the desert.ROFLMFAO! PUHLEEZ! Western Civ doesn't have the cajones for this and never will. There is no provocation that I can imagine that would energize western leaders to take such an action. End Result - in a 100 years or so when the Holy War is over the west will have fallen and all our great grandchildren will have names like Mustafa, Jasmine etc. They'll be getting down on their hands and knees and facing Mecca five times a day while at work in a primitive factory making Korans or from their hovel they call home.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 7, 2005, 11:41 AM
Werewolf: There is no provocation that I can imagine that would energize western leaders to take such an action. Unfortunately, me either. However, when someone takes a dump in my living room, I EXPECT THEM TO CLEAN IT UP.

When we will put responsibility where it belongs? :cuss:

dasmi
July 7, 2005, 11:45 AM
America is next, folks. Our border is open. I'm a little worried living in a border town.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 7, 2005, 11:52 AM
dasmi -- two words: locked, cocked.

HighVelocity
July 7, 2005, 11:58 AM
This is a disgusting act of cowardice by whomever is responsible. :fire:

SMLE
July 7, 2005, 12:01 PM
Now we'll see whether the British electorate goes Spanish, as in getting rid of their government, or has a spine and strikes back against terror. If the IRA couldn't back the Brits down, these pukes aren't going to. Us "Murikans" may gripe about old Blighty's gun laws, but the English are some of the most stubborn knotheads around when it comes to standing up to terrorists. I believe this kind of attack will only harden their resolve.


al-Qaida delenda est!!! :cuss:

No_Brakes23
July 7, 2005, 12:02 PM
My question is do we believe this is the work of some Islamic terrorist organization or the handywork of some tree-hugging-liberal types with a gripe about the economic summit? That doesn't even make sense.

dasmi -- two words: locked, cocked. Only in the domicile, here in Cali.

And besides folks, what good would a whole 3-gun cart full of weapons have done anybody today in London? CCW has a slim chance of stopping a sui-bomber. So unless we are all sitting around fantasizing about the mall scene from Clancy's Teeth of the Tiger, or Chuck Norris' Invasion USA, I don't understand how having a weapon at the ready is going to help in a terrorist attack. It has all been bombs for the most part.

On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to be ready, but we should be doing that anyway.

StopTheGrays
July 7, 2005, 12:17 PM
Just an aside, according to some (uh, almost all) the people posting on DU it is Rove/Bu????ler's fault. It is to distract us and the press away from the DSM and the CIA leak... :barf:



BBC timeline of blast events (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm)
I thought I would share a link that has a timeline showing the series of event that happened this morning concerning the attack in case anyone is interested.

My prayers go out to the victims and for swift and certain justice against those responsible.

Seminole
July 7, 2005, 12:35 PM
iapetus, I'm glad you are ok. I hope our other British members are alright as well.

My prayers ascend for those killed and wounded in the attacks, and for their families.

dasmi
July 7, 2005, 12:39 PM
Only in the domicile, here in Cali.
Danger doesn't stop at my front door.

crucible
July 7, 2005, 12:41 PM
My thoughts, prayers and condolences to the British people.

I hope the boys in Hereford are ramping up.

Chris

Gordon Fink
July 7, 2005, 12:42 PM
It’s all about oil, you know. Oil pipelines in Iraq and Afghanistan … Michael Moore said so.

Not exactly. However, oil does neatly explain the rather unnecessary conquest and occupation of these two countries, which shouldn’t have been required if the goal were merely to kill terrorists.

Let’s just call the control of oil profits a bonus.

~G. Fink

seansean
July 7, 2005, 12:43 PM
thoughts and prayers to the victims.Here in response, LAPD is on modified tactical alert, and I think the whole U.S. is at orange alert for the rail system only.

iapetus
July 7, 2005, 12:49 PM
Seminole

iapetus, I'm glad you are ok. I hope our other British members are alright as well.


Thanks.

No_Brakes23
July 7, 2005, 12:57 PM
Danger doesn't stop at my front door. But you and I both know that the law makes defending yourself beyond your front door a risky proposition, unless you are an LEO or one of the lucky few CCWs.

Omni04
July 7, 2005, 01:13 PM
Art's Grammaw says "NOPE."

Leatherneck
July 7, 2005, 01:18 PM
Condolences to our Brit cousins. Stay strong.

Lots of Ninjas, cop mobiles, and MP-5s here at the Pentagon.

TC

Vernal45
July 7, 2005, 01:25 PM
Terrorists Strike London With Series of Blasts

Thursday, July 07, 2005

LONDON — A series of four explosions struck London's public transportation system Thursday in what Prime Minister Tony Blair (search) called a coordinated series of "barbaric" terrorist attacks, most likely to coincide with the opening of the G-8 summit in nearby Scotland.

At least 33 people were reported dead and at least 300 others were wounded. In unofficial reports, at least 40 people were said to be dead and 1,000 others were injured.

Brian Paddick of the London Police said in a press conference that there are seven confirmed fatalities in the first blast, 21 in the second and five in the third, which may have affected three trains in the Edgware Road train station. And in the fourth explosion, which involved a double-decker bus, there are fatalities but officials cannot yet confirm numbers.

"This clearly was a callous attack on purely innocent members of the public deliberately designed to kill and injure innocent members of the public," Paddick said.

Sir Ian Blair, London's police chief, said he was concerned the explosions were a coordinated attack but said he wouldn't speculate on who was responsible. He said officials had found indications of explosives at one of the sites.

After several hours during which public officials cautioned against reaching conclusions about what caused at least seven blasts on subways and buses, Blair gave a brief televised address where he concluded it was a terrorist action.

"It's important, however, that those engaged in terrorism realize that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people and a desire to impose extremism on the world," an emotional Blair told the world.

"Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilizations in the world."

G-8 leaders later condemned the attacks.

The U.S. State Department said there are no reports yet of Americans hurt in the blasts, but officials cautioned that information is very preliminary and hard to come by with communication outages.

The State Department has set up a task force and call center to deal with concerns of those with relatives and friends in London. The number is 1-888-407-4747.

For more, go to these FOX News partners: Sky News | The Times of London | The Sun

Unknown Terror Group Claims Responsibility

A previously unknown group, "Secret Group of Al Qaeda's Jihad in Europe," claimed responsibility in the name of Al Qaeda for the blasts, saying they were in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. The group claimed the attack in a Web site posting and warned Italy and Denmark to withdraw troops from those two countries. Arabic satellite station Al Jazeera also reported that it had received a phone call from the group claiming responsibility.

The claim could not be verified.

A statement from the group was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news Web site, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which published the text on their Web sites.

"Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo. "The heroic mujahedeen carried out a blessed attack in London, and now Britain is burning with fear and terror, from north to south, east to west."

FBI and Justice Department officials say that it is still too early to determine that the London attacks were the work of Al Qaeda.

One U.S. counterterrorism official emphasized to FOX News that in previous Al Qaeda attacks, such as Sept. 11, 2001, and the embassy bombings in Africa in 1998, there was not an immediate claim of responsibility.

The group making the London terror attack claims has not been heard of before. While many are drawing comparisons to the terrorist bombings on four commuter trains in Madrid on March 11, 2004, that killed 191 people. But the official noted that the Madrid attacks were carried out by a group that was inspired by Al Qaeda and not one in which Usama bin Laden himself ordered the attack.

What is of interest in Thursday's attacks in London is the extreme coordination, the rush-hour hit for maximum casualties and that the attacks targeted the transit system, counterterrorism officials told FOX News. In London's case, the sites hit provided opportunity for maximum casualties since some, but not all, of the stations involved were both commuter train and subway hubs.

One Sky News reporter covering Scotland Yard said sources told him there are indications that one bus explosion was caused by a homicide bomber.

"It was chaos," said Gary Lewis, 32, who was evacuated from a subway train at King's Cross station. "The one haunting image was someone whose face was totally black and pouring with blood."

Officials shut down the entire underground network after the explosions. Initial reports blamed a power surge.

The attacks came a day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics (search) and as the G-8 summit (search) was getting underway in Scotland.

A spokesman for the Olympic committee said it still has full "full confidence" in London as the host of the 2012 Games.

London Mayor Ken Livingstone said: "I want to say one thing, specifically to the world today — this was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful, it was not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary, working-class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christian ... young and old … that isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted fate, it is an indiscriminate attempt at mass murder."

"They seek to divide London, they seek Londoners to turn against each other ... this city of London is the greatest in the world because everybody lives side by side in harmony. Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack."

Livingstone also had words specifically for the terrorists: "I know that you personally do not fear to give your own life in exchange to taking others ... but I know you do fear you may fail in your long-term objective to destroy our free society ... in the days that follow, look at our airports, look at our seaports and look at our railway stations ... you will see that people from the rest of Britain, people from around the world, will arrive in London to become Londoners, to fulfill their dream and achieve their potential … whatever you do, however many you kill, you will fail."

G-8 Leaders Stand United Against Terrorism

Blair, who was hosting the world's most powerful industrial leaders at Gleneagles, Scotland, left the G-8 summit to meet with police and other officials but said the rest of the leaders would remain. The G-8 gathering is focusing on climate change and aid for Africa — but Iraq has largely been left off the agenda.

"Each of the countries around that [G-8] table have experience with the effects of terrorism and all of the leaders ... share our complete resolution to defeat this terrorism," Blair said in his address Thursday. "It's particularly barbaric this has happened on a day when people are meeting to try to help the problems of poverty in Africa, the long-term problems of climate change and the environment."

The G-8 leaders later issued a statement of their own. Blair, flanked by President George Bush on one side and French President Jacques Chirac on the other, read the statement on a stage full of the other G-8 leaders in a sign of solidarity.

"Those responsible have no respect for human life. We are united in our resolve to confront and defeat this terrorism that is not an attack on one nation but on all nations and on civilized people everywhere. We will not allow violence to change our societies or our values, nor will we allow it to stop the work of this summit," the statement read.

"The terrorists will not succeed. Today's bombings will not weaken in any way our resolve to uphold the most deeply held principles of our societies and to defeat those who would impose their fanaticism and extremism on all of us. We shall prevail and they shall not."

Bush later told reporters that the people of London have America's "heartfelt condolences" and said he appreciates Blair's steadfast determination and strength.

"He'll carry a message of solidarity with him" as he leaves the G-8 summit for London, Bush added. "I was most impressed by the resolve of all the [G-8] leaders in the room and that their resolve is as strong as my resolve. ... We will not yield to the terrorists. We will find them; we will bring them to justice."

Bush said there's a clear contrast between the work being done at the G-8 summit and the goals of the terrorists responsible, "those who've got such evil in their heart that they will take the lives of innocent folks."

"The War on Terror goes on," he added.

NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer called the attacks "appalling."

"I know I speak on behalf of all NATO allies when I express our sympathy for and solidarity with the British people. There can be no justification for such heinous crimes," he said in a statement. "I condemn in the strongest terms these attacks, which underline the need for the international community and members of the alliance to remain united in the fight against terrorism."

Jamie Rubin, a former foreign affairs specialist under former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, told FOX News from London that the attack may recreate some of the unity of world leaders that was seen right after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States.

"For now, some of that sense of solidarity that is in the War on Terror ... is restored," Rubin said. "The political sense of solidarity has been lost a bit and I think, ironically, this tragedy may restore it."

Blasts Hit Buses, Subway System

Police said incidents were reported at the Aldgate station near the Liverpool Street railway terminal, Edgware Road and King's Cross in north London, Old Street in the financial district, Russell Square in central London, near the British Museum, Aldgate Station and Leicester Square, which is the equivalent of New York City's Times Square. A police official also told reporters there was an incident on a bus in Tavistock Place.

The first explosion on a tube train in a tunnel on the east side of London's financial district occurred at 8:49 a.m. local time. The second blast went off on a train sitting in the Edgware Road station at 9:33 a.m. The third occurred at 9:40 a.m. on a tube train between Russell Square and Kings Cross stations. The fourth blast happened at 9:50 a.m. on a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square near Russell Square in central London. A witness said the entire top deck of the bus was destroyed.

Bradley Anderson, a subway passenger, told Sky News that "there was some kind of explosion or something" as his train reached the Edgware Road station in northeast London.

"Everything went black and we collided into some kind of oncoming train," Anderson said.

Simon Corvett, 26, who was on an eastbound train from Edgware Road station, said: "All of the sudden there was this massive, huge bang."

"It was absolutely deafening and all the windows shattered," he said. "There were just loads of people screaming and the carriages filled with smoke.

"You could see the carriage opposite was completely gutted," he said. "There were some people in real trouble."

Jay Kumar, a business owner near the site of the blast that destroyed the bus, said he ran out of his shop when he heard a loud explosion. He said the top deck of the bus had collapsed, sending people tumbling to the floor.

Many appeared badly injured, and bloodied people ran from the scene.

"A big blast, a big bomb," he told The Associated Press. "People were running this way panicked. They knew it was a bomb. Debris flying all over, mostly glass."

"I was on the bus in front and heard an incredible bang, I turned round and half the double-decker bus was in the air," Belinda Seabrook told Press Association, the British news agency.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke (search), Britain's top law enforcement officer, said there were "terrible injuries."

Clarke, in a later address before English lawmakers, said above-ground train service is subject to "substantial delays," but airports are operating normally.

"People are strongly advised not to travel into central London as the emergency services must be allowed to work as effectively as they can," Clarke said, adding that there were three explosions in the subway and one on a bus.

Pope Benedict XVI deplored the "terrorist attacks," calling them "barbaric acts against humanity," and said he was praying for the families of the victims.

Americans Urged to be Vigilant

Secret Service spokesman Tom Mazur said that Bush's presence had agents monitoring the situation in London, but that the investigation was being left to British authorities.

U.S. officials said they had no intelligence that suggests similar attacks are planned for the United States; there are no plans currently to raise the terror alert system. But the U.S. rail system was placed on orange alert. Click here for that complete story.

There also are no plans now for the president to return to Washington.

The Homeland Security Department asked authorities in major cities as well as passengers for "continued vigilance" for any suspicious activities, particularly in the transportation systems. The U.S. Capitol tightened up security there.

Bomb-sniffing dogs and armed police officers were sent to patrol Washington's subways and buses Thursday. About 1.2 million people a day ride Washington's buses and trains.

A senior U.S. counterterrorism official said recent intelligence indicated that London was considered a prime target for Islamic extremists in part because Al Qaeda was having difficulty getting people into the United States.

"We have been closely monitoring the bombings in London. Our sympathies and condolences go to the victims of this incident and the people of London," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in a statement.

"We do not have any specific intelligence indicating this type of attack is planned in the U.S. but we are constantly evaluating both intelligence and protective measures and will take whatever actions are necessary. We will continue to work closely with British officials as they investigate this incident."

FOX News' Catherine Herridge, Scott Norvell, Anna Persky, Liza Porteus, Teri Schultz and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

For more, go to these FOX News partners: Sky News | The Times of London | The Sun

Vernal45
July 7, 2005, 01:37 PM
Timeline: London Attacks

Thursday, July 07, 2005

LONDON — 08.49 - Emergency services called to London's Liverpool Street Station after reports of an explosion on the Metropolitan Line between Liverpool Street and Aldgate. Reported as "some kind of power surge".

08.50 - Police called to Aldgate station, east London.

09.22 - King's Cross, Liverpool Street and Aldgate stations cleared.

09.31 - The incident caused major disruption to the entire network with stations across the capital being closed.

09.33 - London Underground said that there has been "another incident at Edgware Road" station in north west London.

09.53 - Mainline train company First Great Western said its services into London's Paddington station were terminating at Reading in Berkshire because of the Underground crisis.

10.00 - The National Grid, which supplies power to the Underground, said there had beenno problems with its system this morning which could have contributed to the incidents.

10.13 - Union officials said their sources had told them there had been at least one explosive device on the Underground. One explosion happened at Edgware Road and there were suggestions of two other explosions at King's Cross and Aldgate.

10.14 - Reports of a bus being ripped apart in an explosion in central London.

10.19 - Mainline services were being halted short of London. The Silverlink company, which normally operates into Euston station, was terminating trains at Watford Junction in Hertfordshire.

10.32 - Mainline London to Scotland train company GNER said it did not expect its East Coast Main Line services to run as far as London at any time today.

11.02 - Home Secretary Charles Clarke confirmed that there had been "terrible injuries" in the explosions across London.

11.24 - Mobile networks report delays for people trying to get through to friends and relatives, after a surge in the volume of calls.

11.30 - Met Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said: "We are not aware of any warning at the moment. We have concluded that this is a co-ordinated attack."

11.51 - St Mary's Hospital said it had received four critically injured patients, eight seriously hurt and 14 with minor injuries so far. It could confirm no deaths and had treated no children.

12.00 - Tony Blair says: "It is reasonably clear that there have been a series of terrorist attacks in London."

12.01 - A spokeswoman for University College Hospital in central London, near the scene of the Russell Square bus blast, said: "We have started to receive casualties but we cannot say how many."

12.05 - Reports that the Stansted Express rail service is suspended, although flights are operating normally at Stansted airport in Essex.

12.16 - Emergency services called to Leicester Square underground station, a spokesman for the London Ambulance Service said.

12.21 - More than 100 casualties and one of the dead were taken to the Royal London Hospital in Whitechapel. Three double-decker buses loaded with casualties had brought the injured to the hospital.

12.30 - 54 patients have been taken to the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead, north London.Two of those were taken into theatre, said a hospital spokeswoman. Six are described as major injuries, two more are in high dependency and one is in X-ray. Two of the 54 were children but their condition is not thought to be serious.

12.36 - A British Transport Police spokeswoman said it had no knowledge of any reports of an explosion at Leicester Square.

12.45 - Superintendent Jon Morgan of the Metropolitan Police said there had been a number of fatalities as well as serious casualties at Edgware Road station. All the dead and injured have been moved from the scene, which is now being examined forensically.

12.51 - A spokeswoman for Guy's and St Thomas' hospital said eight casualties, some critically injured, were being cared for so far.

12.51 - Scotland Yard confirmed that seven explosions have been reported in four sites. The first site is around Russell Square and Kings Cross Underground stations. The second is the area including Moorgate, Aldgate, and Liverpool Street Underground station. The third is Edgware Road Underground and the fourth is Tavistock Square, where a bus was ripped apart by a blast.

13.01 - Al Qaeda terrorists claimed responsibility for the London blasts on an Islamic website and said: "Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters."

13.03 - Metropolitan Police deputy assistant commissioner Brian Paddick said initial reports were that 150 people had been seriously injured in the blasts. "It does appear from the information we have at the moment that these were caused by explosives but we are awaiting forensic confirmation of that."

13.25 - Royal London Hospital said they'd received 183 patients from two of the incidents. Eight were critically injured, including one who was brought in in cardiac arrest. Six people were being operated on. Some 123 of the 183 patients had already been discharged.

13.25 - Prime Minister Tony Blair boarded his helicopter to leave the G8 Summit at Gleneagles and return briefly to London, Downing Street said.

13.27 - US President George Bush said from the G8 summit in Gleneagles: "We condemn utterly these barbaric attacks. We send our profound condolences to the victims and their families."

13.30 - Network Rail said the Victoria, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, St Pancras and Euston mainline London stations were still shut.

13.32 - Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital said they were currently operating on two seriously injured patients.

14.09 - St Mary's Hospital said it had received 36 casualties, of whom six are critically injured, 17 seriously injured and 13 have minor injuries.

14.12 - Some of the 70,000 workers at Canary Wharf in London's Docklands were allowed to leave early because of the travel chaos caused by the explosions.

14.18 - A Transport for London spokeswoman said the bus hit by the explosion was a number 30, travelling from Hackney to Marble Arch.

15.00 - Euston and Paddington stations have re-opened. A spokesman for Network Rail said: "We hope to open St Pancras and Liverpool Street soon and also plan to start King's Cross's suburban services.

15.05 - Scotland Yard issues the following casualty hotline number 0870 1566 344.

15.19 - Westminster City Council announces all 54 state schools in Westminster will be closed tomorrow in the wake of the terrorist bombings and resulting public transport chaos.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,161791,00.html

bjbarron
July 7, 2005, 01:37 PM
It was not part of their blood, It came to them very late
With long arrears to make good, When the English began to hate.

They were not easily moved, They were icy-willing to wait
Till every count should be proved, Ere the English began to hate.

Their voices were even and low, Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show, When the English began to hate.

It was not preached to the crowd, It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud, When the English began to hate.

It was not suddenly bred, It will not switftly abate,
Through the chill years ahead, When Time shall count from the date
That the English began to hate.

- Kipling, The Beginnings 1914

God Bless

Hawkmoon
July 7, 2005, 01:47 PM
It's a wake-up call for those who are willing to hear it.

However, it can't happen here. The High Road told me so just a couple of days ago:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145512

I had to pick up my wife at the airport this morning. I heard the news on the car radio en route, and I've never been into and out of an airport faster.

Spreadfire Arms
July 7, 2005, 01:47 PM
wait till this happens on U.S. soil.......who has their SHTF stuff ready? :confused:

chaim
July 7, 2005, 01:52 PM
My thoughts and prayers go out to our British friends, especially those in London.

Recently heard from my mother. One of her co-workers has 3 neices who live in London. One of his neices uses one of the hit subway stations to get to work. He has been able to speak to 2 of his 3 neices, the one who uses one of the targeted subway stations is currently unaccounted for.

Just to put a human face on the numbers.

We remember 9/11, this is the UK's 9/11.

If the IRA couldn't back the Brits down, these pukes aren't going to. Us "Murikans" may gripe about old Blighty's gun laws, but the English are some of the most stubborn knotheads around when it comes to standing up to terrorists. I believe this kind of attack will only harden their resolve. +1

I don't think the Brits will go the way of the Spanish. These are people who have had to deal with the IRA, who have had a military presence in N. Ireland despite low level attacks for 30 years, who lived through the Blitz in WWII (granted that was another generation)...If anything I would expect this to put them more solidly behind the war on terror (they were weakening, this will only strengthen their resolve).

Otherguy Overby
July 7, 2005, 02:03 PM
I find it hard to envision that we can win the terror war without taking it to the terrorists.

IOW, gloves off. DR Chipper Shredder commercials showing terrorists being ground up and fed to the hogs. Turning Mecca into a hog farm would be a good start.

Mohammad was a child molester.

I've a really good friend who has an attractive 12 year old grand daughter. I've no regard for the lives of anyone who thinks this young lady is mariageable at this age to anyone because of muslim background. Under their "Islamic" law she's an "infidel" and she is rapable according to their creed.

Barganing, reasoning, negotiating with these miscreants is dilusional.

All one has to do is read their religious goals. They want to either kill us all or enslave us.

Shalako
July 7, 2005, 02:15 PM
It seems that Fundamentalist Islam is a cancer in the body of the human race. We know what kind of cells are prone to infection but lack the ability to cure the patient. We keep trying microsurgery to check individual cells while the infection blossoms.

Radiation, chemotherapy, amputation, I really don't care. As long as it cures this disease. I for one want to live.

Lets hope Britain is OK and that this tragedy bolsters their survival instincts. I really like our friends the Brits and want to see them well.

abaddon
July 7, 2005, 02:15 PM
My prayers and best wishes are with any UK citizens who may be reading this. When I lived in Oxford for four months I was reminded just how much we have in common... and how much we owe to your country.

Marko Kloos
July 7, 2005, 02:15 PM
Barganing, reasoning, negotiating with these miscreants is dilusional.

All one has to do is read their religious goals. They want to either kill us all or enslave us.

What about the Muslim whose hospitality you enjoy by posting to THR? Are you going to stand by your principles and quit posting here?

lunaslide
July 7, 2005, 02:16 PM
wait till this happens on U.S. soil.......who has their SHTF stuff ready?

Err, we don't have to wait, it's already happened. You remember that whole September 11th thing awhile back?

thereisnospoon
July 7, 2005, 02:16 PM
Spreadfirearms....be careful, soon evryone will be calling you an alarmist. Remember, we are to appease our aggressors. :what:

Third_Rail
July 7, 2005, 02:20 PM
You bring up a very good point - not all Muslims are evil. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most are good, and only a very tiny fraction are evil at all... of course, this is also discounting all of the NON Muslim terrorists in the world....

Otherguy Overby
July 7, 2005, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Barganing, reasoning, negotiating with these miscreants is dilusional.

All one has to do is read their religious goals. They want to either kill us all or enslave us.

============================
What about the Muslim whose hospitality you enjoy by posting to THR? Are you going to stand by your principles and quit posting here?

Mixing apples and oranges, are ye?

Muslims involved with THR are most likely heartbroken at what's happened.

Would it be too much of me to also assume they would be really angry with your association of them to terrorists?

Extremist criminals have no place in any society I can think of.

Spreadfire Arms
July 7, 2005, 02:25 PM
yes 9/11 occurred but at that point most people weren't in the proper "SHTF" mindset like they are now....

so...let me rephrase.....

who's got their SHTF stuff ready?

Marko Kloos
July 7, 2005, 02:34 PM
You were the one doing the equating. You called for turning Mecca into a hog farm, for example. Backpedal now all you want, but your prior statements about Muslims and Islam did read pretty inclusive to me.

Iain
July 7, 2005, 02:38 PM
I'm a long way from London, at least a long way in British terms, some may consider it fairly near.

Difficult to keep a class of adult learners concentrating today. Difficult to concentrate myself.

It's bad, but it could have been worse. Pleased that it seems so far that the emergency services have demonstrated the value of their training. Apparently one of the buses blew up right outside the British Medical Association's HQ. Doctors there helped, but the pictures show the outside of a building spattered in blood.

Typhoon
July 7, 2005, 02:50 PM
Preacherman's quote was:
Now we'll see whether the British electorate goes Spanish, as in getting rid of their government, or has a spine and strikes back against terror.

I liked SMLE's response:

If the IRA couldn't back the Brits down, these pukes aren't going to. Us "Murikans" may gripe about old Blighty's gun laws, but the English are some of the most stubborn knotheads around when it comes to standing up to terrorists. I believe this kind of attack will only harden their resolve.

The frightening thing is, how many more people have to die before the world community takes this seriously?

BLAM! That good enough? No? Then how about this? BLAM! Good? No? BLAM! Next... BLAM! Done yet? No? BLAM!

Sigh...My thoughts and prayers go to the British folks. We stand with you, and my contributions are forthcoming to the first relief fund I encounter.

God Bless -

fb
July 7, 2005, 02:58 PM
This will have an effect as it was designed too.
What it will be is yet to be seen, but I think for us it will be something like inspection or out right banning of carry on packages on subways. Maybe even all other forms of public transportation.
For them, every time they do something we are that much closer to them. Even so much as a cell phone call, weakens them, cuts there abilities.
I think it is a mistake to think there is any one big thing we can do to stop this sort of thing. It will take many changes to ever change these people. Unless we do some things differntly, and they change, this ???? will just go on and on

carebear
July 7, 2005, 03:01 PM
You realize that if this actually was Al-Quaida and not a more or less local action, then this is (part of) their "next big thing" and they've had how long to prepare it for the G-8?

There's dozens of non-Islamic groups who were pulling this stuff off in the '70's. If it is Al-Quaida Inc., their reach appears to be getting shorter and in much easier grounds. Britain is comparatively easy to get gear into and they could have been planting sleepers for years.

This is a terrible act, and in some perverse way might be the beginning of waking the Euro's up to the fact this is a war on the West, not just the US.

It is however, pretty small potato's for the group that brought down the towers. I am feeling reinforced in my belief these guys may have shot their wad on 9/11, the rest is just the drawn-out failure militant Islam is so used to.

Don Gwinn
July 7, 2005, 03:19 PM
To the religion v religion caution. I don't care what religion anyone is, but I am still waiting for outrage from the Mosques over the 9/11 attacks.

Do people still say that? :banghead: I thought we were done with that one.

There has been condemnation on condemnation for the 9/11 hijackers emanating from mosques all over the world, especially in the U.S.A. Marko used to have a standard response he would copy and paste to people who said something like this, detailing some of these examples of "outrage from the mosques."

But none are so blind as them that refuse to see. You could have answered your question with Google in a fraction of a second. If you put in "Muslim condemnation 9/11" you get 127,000 results. On the first page at least, they all seem to be statements on various religous websites and forums from prominent Muslims denouncing the terrorists and terrorism.

Seminole
July 7, 2005, 03:36 PM
Interesting reading on the Counterterrorism blog (http://counterterror.typepad.com/), where Steve Emerson pointed out that the attack coincides with the opening of the trial of Abu Hamza al-Masri, who is being tried for a number of things in Britain (including nine counts of solicitation to commit murder). Al-Masri's trial in Britain pre-empts U.S. attempts to extradite him on charges of establishing a terrorist-training camp in Oregon, involvement in hostage-taking in Yemen, and financing terrorism in Afghanistan. You can read about al-Masri's trial at http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/ap/o/51/07-05-2005/7f2b00098a14113a.html .

Vernal45
July 7, 2005, 04:10 PM
BBC and Fox news just reported that there is evidence suggesting that the bomb on the double decker bus was a homicide/suicide bomber.

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 04:19 PM
This one makes me sick in a way that not even 9-11 did.

I was shocked, overwhelmed, angered by 9-11. It was an attack on my country.

But even though it happened in my country, I've never been to NYC.

But I've been to London.

I know what London looks like from street level. I know what London smells like in the different quarters. I know what London rush hour traffic sounds like.

I've been on those very trains. I've gotten on trains and off trains at Kings Cross station. I've got a "Mind the Gap" t-shirt in my closet right now.

And I've been on those trains and those stations with people that I love.......my wife, and one of our best friends who was living in Surrey at the time.

This one is very personal to me.

It's several hours later and I still feel physically sick over this one. I would, if I could, personally cut the bombers so deeply with my bowie knife that their instestines would spill onto their dirty, camel-humping feet.

Kill them all.

hillbilly

NineseveN
July 7, 2005, 04:34 PM
My thoughts and condolences for anyone in England right now. I wish I could say more, but what good are words at this moment?

:(

Vernal45
July 7, 2005, 04:39 PM
What I dont understand, we have the technology, we have the strength to wipe these radical Islamic Terrorists off the face of the earth. The only thing we lack to do so is, balls. Seems the Terrorists have those.



We will not win this fighting it the way we are. There will be more attacks, here in the US, and abroad. That is a fact. Why, why cant we just.........never mind.

Tim3256
July 7, 2005, 04:39 PM
Whew, we can all relax now.

"The United Nations Security Council is expected to pass a Special Resolution condemning the apparent terrorist attacks which occurred this morning in London. This according to an anonymous, high-ranking official at the organization."

Well folks, now that the UN is "expected" to denounce the "apparent" attacks, I , for one, feel a tremendous amount of relief.
After all, we all know that terrorists (especially those of the Islamic fundamentalist variety) are horrified at the prospect of prompting such a harsh response from the UN.
I think everything's gonna be OK........Right.

kal
July 7, 2005, 04:44 PM
Terrorism, no matter how hard you try, you just cant beat it.

Hillybilly, i know you are angry and such but the "camel-humping" comment and your "kill them all" attitude is unacceptable. You must remember that all races have there A-holes. It's just that in todays world, the muslim population is in the spot light.

NineseveN
July 7, 2005, 05:00 PM
With all due respect kal, I agree that racism or discriminatory sentiments are bad form, but you know, we didn't see African Americans bombing subways during the civil rights movement. We don't see illegal Mexican immigrants flying planes into buildings on their weay over the border, I don't see rampant uprising from japanese people running around cutting off heads because Hiroshima still glows in the dark during the summer months.

An a-hole is one thing, bombing subways, cutting peoples heads, flying planes into buidlings is not a-hole behavior. These terrorists are different from any threat we've ever faced. Even the Nazis had the decency to wear uniforms while they gassed the Jews. Pearl Harbor was a mlitary target. So say what you all will about comparisons, none apply here.

Omni04
July 7, 2005, 05:00 PM
i think when he said kill them all, he was referring to terrorists in general. I may be wrong however.

Seminole
July 7, 2005, 05:15 PM
On the topic of the reaction of mainstream Muslims, from http://www.isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=220 :

ISNA Condemns the Terrorist Attacks in London

07- 7-05 10:42

ISNA

July 7, 2005

Plainfield, Indiana- We note with deep sadness the unfortunate events of this morning in London, England. We condemn such acts of mindless violence that violate the standards of Islam, as well as, of all faiths.

It is regrettable to note that a short-lived website has allegedly claimed responsibility for this reprehensible act and that website purported to link itself with a so-called Muslim group. Such a situation does not bode well for Britain's Muslims who maintain positive relations with their government and are active participants in British public life.

Irrespective of the sociopolitical implications, this act violates the Islamic principles of the sanctity of life and the safety and security of innocent civilians.

The British Chief Rabbi Sir Jonathan Sacks has aptly stated: "It is not the weapon of the weak against the strong but the rage of the angry against the defenseless and innocent. It is an evil means to an evil end."

The Islamic Society of North America expresses its fullest condemnation of this unwarranted act of terrorism and offers its condolences to those who have lost their loved ones. May God grant all the strength to bear this loss.

Contact resource:

Dr. Sayyid M. Syeed
Secretary General

Phone: 317-839-8157 ext 222

Email: ssyeed@aol.com

Seminole
July 7, 2005, 06:27 PM
Two unexploded bombs have been discovered, complete with timing devices.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=918193

chaim
July 7, 2005, 06:51 PM
On the topic of the reaction of mainstream Muslims

More on that theme:
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13382484,00.html


"MUSLIMS CONDEMN ATTACKS

Muslim groups across Britain condemned the terrorist bombings in London.

The Muslim Council of Britain said it "utterly condemns the perpetrators of what appears to be a series of co-ordinated attacks".


"These evil deeds makes victims of us all.

"The evil people who planned and carried out these series of explosions in London want to demoralise us as a nation and divide us as a people.

"All of us must unite in helping the police to capture these murderers..."
click the link for the rest of the article

Vernal45
July 7, 2005, 06:53 PM
"All of us must unite in helping the police to capture these murderers..."


By all means, please open your mosques, let them look around, question you. Please, help.

Flyboy
July 7, 2005, 06:55 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explosions_1
JERUSALEM - British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.
ADVERTISEMENT

Israeli Finance Minister
Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.

Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.

The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet.

All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.

The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.

Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told
Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans."

Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.
Heavy stuff. Looks like there may have been an (additional) ulterior motive here.

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 07:04 PM
Kal---I will not retract any of my statements.

Every single member of every single fundamentalist, Wahhabist, sharia-worshipping organization and madrassah who belives that infidels need to be killed, who wants to return the world back to the year 800, are all, without exception, an bunch of camel-humping pig-dogs who need to be exterminated from the face of the earth.

Of course, if one is a Muslim who is NOT a fundamentalist, Wahhabist, sharia-worshipper, then one is not included in the category of camel-humping pig dogs, right?

But if one IS a fundamentalist, Wahhabist, sharia-worshipper who sees all unbelievers as infidels who need to be killed, then one is in the category of camel-humping pig-dogs.

Got it?

hillbilly

hillbilly
July 7, 2005, 07:27 PM
Kal--here's another example.

It's another story that would have been the lead all over the news today, if London had not been attacked

Ihab-al-Sherif was a Muslim. But he wasn't a fundamentalist, Wahabbist, sharia-worshipping Muslim.

Because he was a moderate Muslim who officially represented the government of Egypt, he was put into the orange jumpsuit and had his head sawn off with a big knife today in Iraq.

Of course, the folks who did the head sawing today have the exact same worldview, ideology, and values system as the folks who bombed London, who did 9-11, who murdered school kids in Beslan, who bombed Madrid, who have spread terror and death across the globe for the past thirty years.

And those are the folks who need to be taken out.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=aoTnrhBSQHiE


Zarqawi's Al-Qaeda Cell Says It Killed Egyptian Envoy (Update3)
July 7 (Bloomberg) -- An al-Qaeda-linked cell said today it had killed Egypt's envoy to Iraq, who was kidnapped five days ago in Baghdad. The Egyptian presidency confirmed the death of Ihab al- Sherif in a report carried by the official state news agency.

``We announce that the verdict of God almighty has been carried out on the ambassador of the infidels, the ambassador of Egypt,'' the al-Qaeda Organization in Iraq said. The group is headed by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Al-Sherif, Egypt's first envoy to Iraq since the U.S. invasion of 2003, was seized in the capital's al-Mansour district. The 51-year-old diplomat was tried by an Islamic court and found guilty of apostasy, or being unfaithful to Islam, al- Zarqawi's cell said in a message yesterday.

``The ambassador of the infidels has confessed to information that showed that his regime is an infidel and which proved his ties to the Jews and the Crusaders,'' according to the message, which was signed by Abu Maysarah al-Iraqi, who identified himself as the group's media director.

The British Broadcasting Corp. said an accompanying video showed a blindfolded man who gave his name as Ihad al-Sherif, saying he had worked at Egyptian embassies in Iraq and Israel. No killing was shown, the BBC said.

Al-Sherif is the first head of a diplomatic mission to be kidnapped in Iraq. Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari last month urged Arab nations to send ambassadors to Iraq, and stressed the need for world leaders and lawmakers to visit the country.

In separate attacks July 5, Bahrain's Iraq envoy was wounded in an unsuccessful kidnapping attempt, and the Pakistani ambassador was fired upon, Agence France-Presse reported.

United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan ``condemns in the strongest terms'' the murder of al-Sherif, according to a statement released in New York. ``Such acts perpetrated by a few will not deter the commitment and resolve of the United Nations and the international community to help the Iraqi people in their transition towards a peaceful, democratic and prosperous Iraq,'' the statement said.

Egypt, the Arab League and Cairo's Al-Azhar Mosque condemned terrorist bombings in London today that killed at least 37 people, according to Egypt's official news service, Mena. A group calling itself the al-Qaeda Organization in Europe claimed responsibility for bombings.

Mohammed Sayed Tantawi, sheik of the mosque that's considered the highest seat of Sunni Muslim learning, said Islam rejects the killing of innocents, Mena reported.

Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit called the British Ambassador in Cairo by telephone to express Egypt's solidarity with Britain and condemn the terror attacks, MENA said, citing an unidentified foreign ministry spokesman.

Monkeyleg
July 7, 2005, 07:31 PM
agricola, I have no doubt that you and your countrymen will stand against the terrorists, just as you did the Nazi's over sixty years ago. I wonder how New Yorkers or Chicagoans would have reacted to nightly bombing of their cities?

This should serve as a reminder to the majority of the population of the US who disapprove of the war on terror that such things don't just happen in Baghdad.

And, as for the "well, if we weren't in Iraq" crowd: the terrorists would have done this anyway. If not now, then a bit later.

kal
July 7, 2005, 07:50 PM
HillBilly, I never said to retract your statements.

Got it?

Well since you put it like that, yes I GOT IT! :D

-----

You guys know what the problem is. The US seems to be "soft" on terrorists. If we were as brutal as they are, the terrorists might chill out a bit. Try nuking every mountain in Afghanistan and the entire muslim population will chill out. Try executing terrorists right in the middle of the street. Try mass executions, dumping pig remains on dead terrorists, spit all types of propaganda at them, etc. Try making our soldiers look RUTHLESS! Give them face cammo, dark sun glasses, anything to scare the living crap out of terrorists! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Got a little carried away there. :p

Mongo the Mutterer
July 7, 2005, 08:05 PM
Don Gwinn:

You could have answered your question with Google in a fraction of a second. If you put in "Muslim condemnation 9/11" you get 127,000 results. On the first page at least, they all seem to be statements on various religous websites and forums from prominent Muslims denouncing the terrorists and terrorism.

Did it Don, you are correct. Also ran it changing one word ... Muslim SUPPORT 9/11. 2,200,000 hits.


Do the math.

Biker
July 7, 2005, 08:06 PM
It's difficult to scare the crap out of someone who is not only willing, but eager to die for his belief, assuming you're referring to Islamic terrorists. Drop a nuke? Kill some, more are born. Grease a bunch of 'em in the middle of the street? Same same.
I'm not at all sure that I have the answer to the problem, but I'm pretty damn sure that you don't either.
Biker

Mongo the Mutterer
July 7, 2005, 08:20 PM
My main point is, the Muslim world has to police itself. It cannot continue preaching hate.

I have Muslim friends who feel the same.

I really don't care what someone's religion, or lack of one, is. I do care when their view of their religion threatens me or mine.

CAPTAIN MIKE
July 7, 2005, 08:21 PM
Hopefully,the Prime Ministers and Presidents @ the G-8 Summit in Scotland will use this event to really show UNITY in the War on Terror. Yes, even Germany and France.

Biker
July 7, 2005, 08:30 PM
Mongo
My post was in response to Kal's. You guys type faster than me. :)
Biker

Marshall
July 7, 2005, 08:38 PM
God bless their souls and their loved ones!


Oh yea, I have no problem with mosques speaking out against terror, many do and I am happy to see it. The problem I have is that most did so after their silence becoming deafening and still there's those that haven't. I also have a problem with believing the level of commitment and meaning they have behind their statements. I have a notion that one day we'll awaken to the knowledge that thou aren't as holy as they spoke. I hope I'm wrong.

Sincerely,

Sir Skeptical :scrutiny:

P95Carry
July 7, 2005, 09:07 PM
I may now be an ex-pat' but dammit I am angry as all hell! No need to add all that much, and if I did I would probably giving Art's Grammaw a coronary!

Until my daughter had her first child in April - she had been working as an editor in London - using and being near, every day, Russel Square station. She actually took time off from February on but - it makes my hair stand on end to contemplate what just might have been. I give thanks she was spared.

Others tho were not so lucky and while this Dad rejoices in his daughter's safety - many will be mourning right now - and my heart goes out to them.

I am even more ''involved'' shall we say than Hillbilly - I studied in and worked in London - mostly thru '63-'67 and then '74 thru '77. I almost know all the back streets - I can ''see'' these places. I should have been a taxi driver!

In '74 when I was for 6 months night manager at a radio station - I had more than one bomb scare in the building - these were the days of IRA bombs - the ''Harrods'' bombing etc. It was tense at times.

I regard this in the same light - a terrorist to me is faithless (my personal view - unless ''fanatic'' counts), faceless usually but evil personified. I care not what their specific background is - but I collectively denounce them all and would exact a terrible revenge if able so to do - specific, not random and cowardly the way they do it.

I ramble - sorry - meant to be brief.

This will not break the Brit spirit - but from this must come a co-ordinated extra determination to find ways to counter it all.

R.H. Lee
July 7, 2005, 10:05 PM
I may now be an ex-pat' but dammit I am angry as all hell! Good thing somebody is because Blair sure isn't-he sounded like he soiled his knickers.

Why don't we all stop and think about if (when) the same thing happens here. It will. Just a matter of time............

P95Carry
July 7, 2005, 10:19 PM
While we have to go about ''normalcy'' - sure thing Riley, the ''next one'' is always just around the corner - and folks had better be aware of that possibility (?probability).

I hate to say it but - the terrorists always win - they leave folks in fear, systems in chaos and then long term the ''when is the next one coming'' apprehensions. Not to mention the restrictions on our freedoms, in the name of ''security''.

Yep - they win, every time - even if we kid ourselves otherwise.

Damn them all to hell. :fire:

Freedspeak
July 7, 2005, 10:35 PM
The scary thing is that fundementalists of any stripe have the same view. Attack and scare!

The fundies of any religion say, "We are being attacked,we must kill the infadel!"

These are most often a "major (conversion type) religion", that does not have a live and let live view on life.

Maybe we should listen to the supreme being that is in our hearts, rather than the one most proclaim as ***!

One interesting thing I noted is that these may may well have been backpack bombs, without a suicider, they all occured on mass transit, where someone may have left a backpack or (large) purse.

Marshall
July 7, 2005, 11:13 PM
P95

We have to get dirty. These terrorist can be scared too. Some may blow themselves up but they sure don't want to die by someone or something else.

Bin Laden is hiding in caves, probably. Saddam was found in a rat hole shaking in his boots. These people are scarable cowards that kill innocent people and hide in the dark. They're Evil. Evil never wins in the long run.

Sometimes when things get bad , really bad ,and it looks like you're not going to make it. You gotta get mean , mad dog mean.. :D

Jim Diver
July 7, 2005, 11:26 PM
You could have answered your question with Google in a fraction of a second. If you put in "Muslim condemnation 9/11" you get 127,000 results. On the first page at least, they all seem to be statements on various religous websites and forums from prominent Muslims denouncing the terrorists and terrorism.


Out of the billions of muslims in the world, that is a pretty sorry number. "scientology condemnation 9/11" brings up 7220 hits. "mormon condemnation 9/11" brings 37,500 hits.

So the question is still valid. I ask Where is the muslim condemnation of these attacks? Till I see them signing up in droves to fight the hijackers of their religion, I will ask that question. Till I see Immams (sp?) on every channel and holding protests infront of Wahabbi mosques, I will ask the question.

I still hear muslims chanting "NUKE NUKE WASHINGTON! BOMB BOMB PENTAGON!"... Why are thier voices not drowned out by Muslims who condem these attacks??

Silence is consent.. and all I hear is silence.

Davo
July 7, 2005, 11:38 PM
When this happends I get restless, almost as if I have to jump up and do something, my heart races-but today there isnt much I can do. My heart goes out the friends and families of these victims. We will not forget.
Of course that desire for vengeance flares up at times like this. They are striking because they are hurting, id like to think. We are making progress in this noble fight. I hate to say it-but France is long overdue for something like this.

Jim Diver
July 7, 2005, 11:51 PM
What would France do though?

How do you surrender to an attacker who hides in the shadows? Hang a white flag off the Eiffel tower?? Come to think of it, what prupose does the Eiffel tower have besides something to hang a white flag from?

A french soldier will fight viciously and without regard to his own life if you stand between him and a white flag.

Flyboy
July 8, 2005, 12:03 AM
Every single member of every single fundamentalist, Wahhabist, sharia-worshipping organization and madrassah who belives that infidels need to be killed, who wants to return the world back to the year 800, are all, without exception, an bunch of camel-humping pig-dogs who need to be exterminated from the face of the earth.
http://thehighroad.org/images/thr-bflag.gif

Derek, Oleg, it looks like somebody has hijacked the DNS entries for THR; you might want to look into it.

And if the best you guys can do to show how many people believe something is to count Google results...wow. I don't suppose it's ever occurred to you that there's a bit of self-selection sample bias there, has it? Or the fact that the media--including the internet--in many Islamic middle-eastern countries is heavily censored? C'mon, folks, surely you can do better.

Hook686
July 8, 2005, 12:09 AM
Today, 08:19 PM #108
P95Carry
Moderator





I hate to say it but - the terrorists always win - they leave folks in fear, systems in chaos and then long term the ''when is the next one coming'' apprehensions. Not to mention the restrictions on our freedoms, in the name of ''security''.

Yep - they win, every time - even if we kid ourselves otherwise.

Damn them all to hell.

Yes ... kinda like the wasp aint't they ? However I doubt the terrorist wins in the long run ... it will be our own fears that destroy our culture, and I doubt that any replacement will benefit the terrorist.

We will probably bankrupt ourselves trying to swat the wasp, and obliterate most of the very qualities that led to this countries greatness. A sad scenario for sure ... but is not all change for the best ? Is not change, and our ability to adapt to it, the very essence of life ?

This too shall pass, though I weep for those who pay the price. God bless them.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/dmchinnock/Sanyo%20VPC-X350/happyfacesaluteflag.jpg

Hook686

kal
July 8, 2005, 01:06 AM
Because of the terrorists, our government further restricts guns! Kill all terrorists!!! :D

bigun15
July 8, 2005, 02:03 AM
It's horrible to hear about this happening. But I will say that I'm thankful that two of their bombs failed to detonate. God was watching over some people there.

chaim
July 8, 2005, 02:30 AM
Flyboy, it has since been reported that, like so many early reports after something like this, that that news report you quoted was a false report. Didn't happen.

Here are some quotes from this (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1120702712585 ) article:

"Finance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu told The Jerusalem Post that he heard the ambulance sirens screaming through the streets of London and it reminded him of what he'd always said about terrorism. "The sirens that wailed in London today are a wake-up call to Europeans that they must unite to fight the plague of international terror," he said.

Netanyahu was about to leave his hotel to speak at an Israeli business conference when he received word that there had been an explosion near the site of the event. He ended up staying put. "

Doesn't sound to me like he cancelled due to advance warning.

Then on page 2 they directly address such claims:

"There were early reports that Israel had received a tipoff about the blasts minutes before they occurred, but that was flatly refuted by Israeli and British officials. "



WND has an entire article about it: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45163

And since you used an early Yahoo article, here is a later Yahoo article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explosions_2
"JERUSALEM - Israel was not warned about possible terror attacks in London before a series of blasts ripped through the city, Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said Thursday.

A Foreign Ministry official, speaking on condition of anonymity, had said earlier that British police warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terror attacks minutes before the first explosion.

"There was no early information about terrorist attacks," Shalom told Israel Army Radio later. "After the first explosion an order was given that no one move until things become clear. "

Israel was holding an economic conference in a hotel over the London subway stop where one of the blasts occurred. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was supposed to attend the conference, but "after the first explosion our finance minister received a request not to go anywhere," Shalom said..."



Do keep in mind how notoriously unreliable early reports are when there are hundreds of reporters grasping for information to report and there is precious little information available. All kinds of interesting, but false, tidbits tend to get thrown around and that is what it appears happened with this Israel story.

Flyboy
July 8, 2005, 02:41 AM
chaim, I saw that elsewhere, but thanks for posting it here and clearing it up for others.

For the record, I posted it not as a conspiracy theory (as it was in the L&P thread), but as a notation that the terrorists may have had other objectives than "just" creating chaos.

c_yeager
July 8, 2005, 03:13 AM
Did it Don, you are correct. Also ran it changing one word ... Muslim SUPPORT 9/11. 2,200,000 hits.

yes and most of them are MUSLIMS offering SUPPORT for the victims of 9/11...

now you do the math.

Matt G
July 8, 2005, 10:39 AM
Mongo the Mutterer said:To the religion v religion caution. I don't care what religion anyone is, but I am still waiting for outrage from the Mosques over the 9/11 attacks.

Still waiting...

How many times do we have to address this?!? (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1397051&postcount=112)

Again and again and again and again and again...

Do they have to come to your door with hat in hand and apologize to you, personally, for acts that they did not support and did not commit???

:confused:

seansean
July 8, 2005, 11:11 AM
here's what Brit Hume was thinking as this unfolded....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/david-sirota/brit-hume-goes-on-tv-sa_3813.html

TheEgg
July 8, 2005, 11:23 AM
While I have been very impressed with Tony Blair over the last several years (even though I disagree with him strongly on many political issues) I was less than thrilled with his response in this instance.

Oh well, maybe he will get to it, but it seemed a weak response on his part.

Does the British Lion still have any teeth? We will find out in time, I guess.

I simply don't know what the truth is about support or the lack thereof for terrorists in the Muslim world. Insufficient data.

All I can say is that I know only 4 Muslims (all of Arab origin). Sadly, 2 of the 4 relish it whenever one of these terror incidents occur, and rejoice at the death and destruction -- they are quite public about it. The other 2 remain silent (out of fear they tell me -- they think they might be targeted if they speak against the extremists). Does that mean that I think that 50% of the Muslims on the planet support terror? Of course not.

But it does not make me feel warm and fuzzy.

NineseveN
July 8, 2005, 11:24 AM
seansean:
linking to a socialist blog that's been live all of 4 months? Can we find this elsewhere? The quotes from the other Fox employees I dont doubt, but may have been taken out of context.

I agree that from a certain position, while this is a terrible tragedy, it does have the potential to work to our advantage by lighting a fire under more people.

And this does put the war on terror right back in front of all other political issues, which, if you believe it is the most important issue we face today, is a good thing.

Marshall
July 8, 2005, 11:32 AM
Pretty weak article, matter of fact it's laughable.

seansean
July 8, 2005, 11:33 AM
actually, his blog links to mediamatters, which has been around longer than 4 months, and I don't think it matters whether the blogger is socialist, it only matters that the story is true. and it is. Marshall: You call the article laughable, but it happened. what's laughable, the article reporting on this callousness, or brit hume thinking of his stock portfolio before thinking of the deaths of innocents??

NineseveN
July 8, 2005, 11:50 AM
Actually, it does matter if the blogger is socialist or conservative, it colors their remarks. An internet blog or even an internet newspaper is far from being a serious journalistic enterprise with integrity. Socialists will take such comments made by anyone they disagree with and place them out of context and write some eye-catching headline. Case in point;

"During Fox News' coverage of the July 7 London bombings, Washington managing editor Brit Hume told host Shepard Smith that his "first thought," when he "heard there had been this attack" and saw the low futures market, was "Hmmm, time to buy." Smith had asked Hume to comment on the lack of a negative U.S. stock market reaction to the London attacks."

That was taken from Media Matters, directly. The words "when" and "and" signify a qualification and a continuation, you cannot simply quote "my first thought when i heard there had been this attack was, 'time to buy'". That's a misrepresentation of the facts. When he heard of the attack, and saw the futures market he thought, 'time to buy'. There is a huge difference in those 2 sentences. He was asked to comment on the lack of a negative U.S. stock market reaction to the London attacks, the questioner put the perspective down, Brit Hume answered within that perspective. Yet socialist knuckleheads are using the quotes (with the parts of the futures market ommitted of course) and writing headlines such as "Hume's "first thought" on hearing of London attacks: It's "time to buy" futures" and "Brit Hume Goes On TV & Says He Wants to Profit Off the Terrorist Attack". Those 2 headlines came from your source sites.

It's rhetoric, period. It's garbage, period, all these socialist bloggers want to do is profit off of the attacks by twisting words and trying to further their own agenda.

Thanks for playing.

seansean
July 8, 2005, 11:58 AM
The mediamatters page has video of the on-air exchange, not just their take on it. view it, see for yourself. direct page link.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200507070007

Thank YOU for playing. :)

Marshall
July 8, 2005, 12:24 PM
What's laughable is how it portrays the meaning.

I was watching that morning as well. I just happened to turn the tube on when they were speculating about the opening of the market. The same thing crossed my mind as crossed theirs. That in no way has any indication of how I feel about what happened or what is the most important. The fact that this article is trying to portray it that way is laughable indeed, sad actually. What's worse, some believe it. :rolleyes:

NineseveN
July 8, 2005, 12:27 PM
I did watch the video, did you? The commentator spends the first 14.5 seconds framing the question about the performance of the futures market and raises the point that perhaps the timing of the incident, that it happened in the middle of the night gave the market a better sense of the scheme of things. Brit then says;

"well maybe, the other thing is of course, um, people have, you know, the market was down, it was down yesterday, and um, you know you nev-, we may have had some bargain hunting going on. I mean, my first thought when I heard, just on a personal basis, when I heard that there had been this attack and I saw the futures this morning which were really in the tank, I thought 'hmm, time to buy'. Um, others may have thought that as well." (direct quote from the video)

That is a far cry from 'Brit Hume wants to make money off of ths tragedy'. He is simply saying that after he heard about the attack and then took a look at the market, he thought it was time to buy. It's all in context. I'm not going to try and educate someone on how to derrive context from the total portion of what was said, so I'm going to try and be done with this issue, we've gotten off-topic here, and I try not to feed trolls.

seansean
July 8, 2005, 12:29 PM
Marshall, when I was watching the towers fall, the last thing I was thinking about was which stocks I could pick up on the cheap. london is a comparable event, and the criticism of hume's comments are justified, IMHO. no biggie, we agree to disagree.
peace.

RevDisk
July 8, 2005, 12:45 PM
To the folks across the pond, best wishes...

May the people responsible be brought swiftly to justice.
May the wounded heal
May the dead be remembered

seansean
July 8, 2005, 01:16 PM
nineseven, why resort to name-calling? a troll? :barf: been here long enough to not have THAT leveled at me. honest disagreement is fine. name-calling is pointless.

NineseveN
July 8, 2005, 02:39 PM
It wasn't particularly meant to insult, but the fact that you came to this thread to attack a public figure without base (in my idea, this thread was more to console and discuss the actual event itself and the emotions surrounding it) using propaganda web-blogs as your sources came off as trollish. I call them as I see them. I call a chicken a chicken, a car a car and a painting a painting...I doubt they're offended.

What does Brit Hume have to do with anything that had been discussed in this thread? What did you hope to contribute by linking a socialist web blog to this thread? What kind of value did the anti-conservative message of your link bring to the discussion?

As far as I can see, zero. Hence, a troll post. Your mileage may vary. If you wish to continue a discussion on Brit Hume's remarks, bias in the media or political values, let's do so in another thread. Save this one for meaningful discussion that has something to actually do with the thread title.



Back on topic, hope all are doing well across the pond. I wonder what kind of impact this will have on the masses? Fear? Outrage? Both? Time will tell. It is only right that as Tony Blair has stood by our country during our recent tough times, that we now stand by his.

Spiphel Rike
July 8, 2005, 09:04 PM
I'm another with an Aunt and Uncle in London. The people who committed this atrocity must be dealt with, but i think that all the "mosques haven't said anything therefore each one is full of terrorists" rhetoric is crap. As has been said by others, the non fundamentalists stay quiet out of fear. If it was as bad as some of you think every muslim in the mid east would be getting on a plane to the US, and the other countries that are allied with gleefully carrying a bag of fertiliser. :banghead:

The brits probably won't respond to it as best they could, and might just ban having bags on public transport, but it got a lot of ignorant Australians to wake up, but they'll forget about it a little too soon for my liking. Don't forget that my country's government basically gave out fridge (refrigerator) magnets and brochures just after 9/11 and the bali bombings.

rudolf
July 9, 2005, 12:57 AM
Some of you folks should try getting more informed about muslims. Your discussion about whether muslims condemn terror only makes sense from a christian point of view. Muslims are NOT obliged to tell the truth. If it servres their cause, they will condemn. Later at home or in the mosque, they'll tell a different story. It really doesn't matter what a muslims says to an unfidel.

What you need to look for is whether muslims will help in catching muslim terrorists. Look especially at the muslims in your country. Here in Germany, the Police and other authorities got and get absolutely no help from our muslims. No muslim over here will hand over one of his brothers to the unfidels. Don't care for their words, watch their deeds.

And, adding insult to injury, muslims in Britain are telling us THEY are the victims, as they will now be negatively looked at. Isn't this disgusting.

Muslims do not share our values, so it does make sense to ask whether we need to have them stay in our countries.

Most of the muslim terrorists are young males with little or no family ties in the country where they are staying. They are students or otherwise better off and have gotten a chance to enjoy the pleasures of western life. With this profile, you can sort out most of them. Kick them out. Making laws that apply to all citizens of your country will not help anyone.

And to all you US folks, in the counterterrorism blog an article about eurojihadists asks some serious and valid questions about your visa waiver program. Not that I'd like to have to get a Visa next time I visit the US, but too many European countries have given citizenship to arabs, with little or no questions asked. They can now enter your country without any prior checks taking place.

Mongo the Mutterer
July 9, 2005, 11:49 AM
Ed Koch is on Fox News right now. He made one statement "how Many FATWAS have been issued by the Imams against Usama Bin Ladin?"

Tells the story for me...

R.H. Lee
July 9, 2005, 11:57 AM
rudolf from Germany nailed it IMO. The western Europeon countries are are forging the architecture of their own demise by way of ultra tolerance, and we're not far behind.

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