How to get a legal silencer?


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spartacus2002
July 7, 2005, 07:45 PM
Silencer, suppressor, muffler, you know what I mean.

I'm looking to buy some land to shoot my M1A on, and it would benefit the neighbors if they didn't have to listen to BANG BANG all day long.

Can anybody give me some basic info on how to legally purchase a silencer? I'm guessing there is some requirement to get BATFE approval, and a tax?

Who makes good silencers for M14s/M1As?

Thanks!

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Gung-Ho
July 7, 2005, 07:50 PM
You are still going to have the hypersonic CRACK....and end up being on that Federal "short list." ;) Being on that "list" was the main thing that kept me from getting a sterling years ago.

GregGry
July 7, 2005, 07:52 PM
Well you will have to go through a big long, and drawn out process to get one, provided they are even legal in your state. Sadly they are illegal in my state, Wisconsin :cuss:

Chipperman
July 7, 2005, 07:52 PM
The process is similar to buying a machine gun.
The transfer tax is $200 for a Form 4. (You can also make your own, which would be with a Form 1.)

If you want a premade suppressor, then you would do a Form 4. Find one you like, and buy it. Fill out the info on the Form 4 and have your CLEO sign it. Send it to ATF with $200. Wait.
Wait.
Wait some more.
When you get the approved Form 4, then the company can send the Suppressor.

I have no idea about good ones for the M1A

boofus
July 7, 2005, 08:00 PM
www.swrmfg.com
www.gem-tech.com

Some places to look, these guys are generally regarded as the best in the business.

wdlsguy
July 7, 2005, 09:59 PM
Sadly they are illegal in my state, Wisconsin

941.298 Firearm silencers.
(1) In this section, "firearm silencer" means any device for silencing, muffling or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating such a device, and any part intended only for use in that assembly or fabrication.
(2) Whoever sells, delivers or possesses a firearm silencer is guilty of a Class H felony.
(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to sales or deliveries of firearm silencers to or possession of firearm silencers by any of the following:
...
(c) Any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/25thedition/wisconsin.pdf

Sir Aardvark
July 7, 2005, 10:16 PM
Buy a bag of potatoes.

GregGry
July 7, 2005, 10:40 PM
Any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. No *****? I know the state statutes like the back of my hand, I needed to for my legal courses. My state statue book does not have that provision listed, I just checked :what:. I guess I know what I am getting myself for an early christmas present :D

OEF_VET
July 7, 2005, 11:24 PM
I'm putting together a group buy for suppressors. Check out my thread here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=146085) for more info.

Frank

Jadecristal
July 7, 2005, 11:56 PM
No *****? I know the state statutes like the back of my hand, I needed to for my legal courses. My state statue book does not have that provision listed, I just checked . I guess I know what I am getting myself for an early christmas present

Regardless of the supposed "progressive" label, WI is still a pit of liberalism. They don't like letting us have toys. :banghead:

harvester of sorrow
July 8, 2005, 12:04 AM
and end up being on that Federal "short list." Being on that "list" was the main thing that kept me from getting a sterling years ago.

:scrutiny: :scrutiny:

No offense, but that's one of the worst arguments against exercising a Constitutionally-protected freedom ever. The more people who think that way, and who perpetuate that belief, the more the antis have their battles won for them.

Navy joe
July 8, 2005, 12:14 AM
Fill out the forms, pay your $200 and wait. Silencers are legal in VA, but if you are buying land investigate the locality, Chief Law Enforcement Officer is the most common signatory and some have decided they are god and refuse to sign the Form 4. Unlike CCW it is not shall issue and they don't even have to tell you why they won't sign. Newport News for example likes to delay all NFA paperwork and not sign most. They delayed my CCW permit as long as legally possible even though I know it sat at one desk 25 days waiting for fingerprints that are not required by state law. Pick your land carefully.

Zrex
July 8, 2005, 12:20 AM
but if you are buying land investigate the locality, Chief Law Enforcement Officer is the most common signatory and some have decided they are god and refuse to sign the Form 4. Unlike CCW it is not shall issue and they don't even have to tell you why they won't sign.


+1


I got tired of the run around, so I formed a LLC which now owns all of my NFA goodies. My local CLEO can go pound salt up his arse for all I care.... besides... I hate being fingerprinted.

444
July 8, 2005, 01:16 AM
The information you read on this board about suppressors is for the most part, bad. I am starting to get frustrated with the information posted and am probably just going to stop reading suppressor threads on this board. A couple years ago I pretty much stopped reading threads on this board regarding AR15s because of the bad information being passed.

If they are legal for you to own, buying one is very simple. You will read about hoops you have to jump through and all the paperwork you have to do etc.
First of all, there is no license and no permit. If you read a post that mentions licenses, the guy doesn't own a suppressor, has never owned a suppressor, doesn't know anyone that does own one and doesn't know anything about buying one.
What you need is a tax stamp. That tax stamp is the tax paid for that suppressor. It is a one time tax. It is not for anything else but that one suppressor. But, since it is for that suppressor, you can put that suppressor on any number of guns. Guns don't matter, The tax is on the suppressor.

Step #1 in the process is finding out if there is any local or state law prohibiting you from owning a suppressor.
Step #2 Assuming there was no law against you owning a suppressor then you need to pick out the suppressor you want. Find a class III dealer. Go there and make the deal on the suppressor. You need to buy the suppressor and your dealer needs get the suppressor before you fill anything out. The reason being, you need the serial number from the suppressor to put on the form 4. When you get the serial number, you can fill out the form and get the ball rolling.

The paperwork:
The whole process from beginning to end takes me about an hour. You fill out the form on-line as an Adobe Acrobat document. The form is one sheet, front and back. It is easier than filling out a yellow form at your gun dealer. You print out two copies. Then, if this hasn't taxed you to your limits, you head down to a store where you can get passport photos taken. A good way to do this is to take your own picture on a digital camera. You can then take your memory card from the camera to a drug store and print out a sheet of passport photos. Glue one on each copy of the form 4. Take a break from jumping through all these hoops. Maybe you could split up this HUGE workload and let a little kid glue the pictures onto the form. You sign the backs of the form 4s yourself and then have the sheriff or someone he delegates that to, sign both copies. I drop mine off and then have to wait to get the two forms back from the sheriff's office. He only signs them on one day a week. Thank God for that break in the action. I don't know if I could take this trauma without a break. While you are at the sheriff's office, you need to get two fingerprint cards. This takes another five minutes. Then you have to jump through the tremendous, horrible hoops of sticking it in an envelope and mailing it.
Then you wait for about three months to get it back from ATF. You will get one of the very form 4s that you sent them back with a stamp in the upper right hand corner. The stamp looks just like a postage stamp only the value is $200.

This is the form here: http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form4.pdf
Fill in this form, on-line. Make sure you erase everything that might already be on that form that doesn't pertain to you. Your dealer will probably do this paperwork, but if not, this is where you find it. Filling it out is self explantory.

entropy
July 8, 2005, 03:37 AM
GregGry, try Lauer Custom Weaponry out of Chippewa Falls, WI. If he can make 'em here, you can own 'em here. ;) Ironically, WI statutes for such toys are relatively benign, the most restrictive being that FA weapons in pistol calibers must be registered with the state.

cidirkona
July 8, 2005, 04:42 AM
That reminds me, I've got a huge envelope of paperwork to do still....

-Colin

HankB
July 8, 2005, 08:38 AM
I'm looking to buy some land to shoot my M1A on, and it would benefit the neighbors if they didn't have to listen to BANG BANG all day long. If you're going to buy some land, you can construct your own suppressor on that land . . . NOT something you attach to the gun barrel, but something that's free-standing. For example, if you string a dozen old tires together into a tube, and line them with fiberglass, they'll significantly muffle the muzzle blast of your M1A if you stick the muzzle in one end a couple of feet.

No tires? Then you can construct a big box out of plywood and put some baffles and sound deadening material inside. Again, stick the muzzle well inside and the muzzle blast will be significantly attenuated. (Some years back, Handloader magazine had an article on this. There are probably plans "somewhere" on the Internet, too.)

The obvious disadvantage is that you're limited to shooting on a fixed lane . . . but considering the range of an M1A, you probably wouldn't be plinking away in all directions unless you had a LOT of land, anyway.

Gung-Ho
July 8, 2005, 10:43 AM
No offense, but that's one of the worst arguments against exercising a Constitutionally-protected freedom ever. The more people who think that way, and who perpetuate that belief, the more the antis have their battles won for them.

None taken. I understand completely what you mean, and I agree. That having been said, sadly my point still stands. Ownership of class 3 weps is so rare these days, that even asking the "king" if you can own one, puts a spotlight on you. I'm already a home-schooling, gun owning christian (who is on record as buying Unintended Consequences and lots of reloading supplies. ;) )....I don't need to be sillouetted any farther. :uhoh:

Gung-Ho
July 8, 2005, 10:52 AM
What you need is a tax stamp. That tax stamp is the tax paid for that suppressor. It is a one time tax. It is not for anything else but that one suppressor. But, since it is for that suppressor, you can put that suppressor on any number of guns. Guns don't matter, The tax is on the suppressor.

Yeah its just a "tax" on the suppressor. It's a 200 FRN tax on 10 bucks worth of metal and washers, but its JUST a tax. Funny thing...I went to the post office yesterday to get some stamps to mail a letter. The funny thing is that when its a stamp for a letter (and not something the King really dosn't want you to have) I didn't have to get fingerprinted, photographed, background checked, and get the OK from a local CLEO. But remember, MG's and suppressors (Maybe we should humor Hiram Maxim and call them Silencers once in a while.) are not semi-banned by the goverment....they are just taxed with a cute little stamp. :scrutiny:

harvester of sorrow
July 8, 2005, 11:10 AM
I'm already a home-schooling, gun owning christian (who is on record as buying Unintended Consequences and lots of reloading supplies.

In that case, what's one more? Come on in, it's fine company!
:D :D :D

0007
July 8, 2005, 11:45 AM
The most important part of the whole process is going down and talking with the CLEO in the town/county that you are going to be living in. For years you couldn't get a sign-off where my HOR is even though Form IV stuff was legal in Florida. Finally the a*****e chief of police was replaced and I got two forms signed off in three days.

Otherwise it's a pretty straight-forward process just takes time. Find a local Class III dealer and talk with him about what you want to do.

wdlsguy
July 8, 2005, 12:02 PM
444, what you just described is a best-case scenario. Many people live in jurisdictions where CLEOs refuse to sign form 1's / 4's.

Gung-Ho
July 8, 2005, 05:53 PM
444, what you just described is a best-case scenario. Many people live in jurisdictions where CLEOs refuse to sign form 1's / 4's.

Then this is what you do.....tell them that unless they sign off on the form 4, you will form a corporation (which will own the wep as a hard asset) and take him OUT of the LOOP all together.

444
July 8, 2005, 10:46 PM
"444, what you just described is a best-case scenario."

I disagree. Basically, it is the only senario.
Your local CLEO is either going to sign the form or not. But the process of buying a suppressor, or for that matter a machine gun, is the same. Him refusing to sign doesn't change the basic process at all.
As was mentioned, there are ways around him not signing it and that becomes more complicated but as long as we are talking about the basic proceedure.

As I have mentioned before, my goal here is to dispel this myth that buying a suppressor is some kind horrible, complicated experience. For most of us the issue is black and white. You can either buy one or not. If you CAN buy one, it is not hard, it is not complicated, or any of the stuff people talk about on the internet. If you CAN't, then it doesn't matter.
AGAIN, I am not trying to start an argument. I am trying to make people aware that you can own machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, suppressors etc. It is not illegal. It is a right you have as an American that a lot of people arn't taking advantage of NOT because they can't, but because they read a bunch of bogus information on-line from people who don't know what they are talking about.

wdlsguy
July 8, 2005, 11:57 PM
Your local CLEO is either going to sign the form or not.

Well, I'm about to find out for myself. I just mailed a pair of Form 1's and a cover letter and a SASE to the constable. The plan is to build an SBR.

bogie
July 9, 2005, 01:22 AM
Well, in Missouri, I'm SOL unless I'm an SOT...

So...

If I had a buncha land, and I wanted to shoot on it without overly irritating the neighbors, I'd build a shed. The first room would have bench, etc. Would be comfy, maybe have a sofa, fridge, TV, whatever...

The other room would be accessible via a small hole. and have a slightly larger hole pointed at a target frame. Room #2 eats the big blast, so that all that's left over is the supersonic.

Tires will work, and other stuff will work, but you _really_ have to watch for unburned powder, which _can_ catch fire.

rock jock
July 9, 2005, 03:08 AM
I just mailed a pair of Form 1's and a cover letter and a SASE to the constable. I'm pretty sure a constable is not recognized as a CLEO in any jurisdiction in Texas.

wdlsguy
July 9, 2005, 09:14 AM
I'm pretty sure a constable is not recognized as a CLEO in any jurisdiction in Texas.

Google "Westfall v. Miller" for a list of officials BATFE accepts.

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