Federal Gun Ranges Hit With Requests for Access


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swampsniper
July 13, 2005, 06:27 PM
Federal Gun Ranges Hit With Requests for Access
Alan Korwin, Gun Laws of America

Activists around the country are beginning to probe federal shooting ranges, seeking public access, if my inbound emails are any measure. This follows release of news from Bloomfield Press that federal law specifically allows such use (linked at end). So far, authorities have reportedly been resisting the public's interest in following the law, and that's putting it nicely.


http://www.sierratimes.com/05/07/11/gunranges.htm

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Cesiumsponge
July 13, 2005, 08:31 PM
I think there is at least one other thread on this topic somewhere.

I'm curious on how many holes in the ceilings/walls there are at indoor federal shooting ranges...and how it compares with public ranges.

taliv
July 13, 2005, 10:18 PM
hey, i'm the only one here professional enough to put a hole in this ceiling

blue86buick
July 14, 2005, 12:42 AM
Now the question is, how do you know if a range was built with fedaral funds? Obviously, one in the basement of a courthouse would have been, but what about the local "LEO only" range used by the police? How would I find out if Uncle Sam helped pay for it, and therefore I have a right to use it?

(yes, I do mean the one local to me....but I'm sure other cities have similar ones, and a generic answer helps all)

crawfish
July 14, 2005, 12:47 AM
Request that information under the Freedom of Information Act from your local city/county manager. You may have to keep at it or you will be put off over and over. May get lucky and get the info first time but don't count on it.

nyresq
July 23, 2005, 02:05 AM
the law says the govt may charge "range fees". suppose the controling agency (like the USMS at the AZ court house) were to say the range was open to the public, but the fee was $500 per hour per person. The law doesn't specify what the range fee would be or impose any limits. whats to stop them from doing that?

DMF
July 23, 2005, 07:51 AM
10 USC 4309. Rifle ranges: availability for use by members and civilians

(a) Ranges available. -- All rifle ranges constructed in whole or in part with funds provided by the United States may be used by members of the armed forces and by persons capable of bearing arms.

(b) Military ranges. --

(1) In the case of a rifle range referred to in subsection (a) that is located on a military installation, the Secretary concerned may establish reasonable fees for the use by civilians of that rifle range to cover the material and supply costs incurred by the armed forces to make that rifle range available to civilians.

(2) Fees collected pursuant to paragraph (1) in connection with the use of a rifle range shall be credited to the appropriation available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range and shall be available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range.

(3) Use of a rifle range referred to in paragraph (1) by civilians may not interfere with the use of the range by members of the armed forces.

(c) Regulations. -- Regulations to carry out this section with respect to a rifle range shall be prescribed, subject to the approval of the Secretary concerned, by the authorities controlling the rifle range.
May not will, and subject to the Secretary's approval. Good luck getting any government owned range opened to use by the general public. It will probably happen the day after Satan hosts a snowboarding competition in hell.

shermacman
July 23, 2005, 09:02 AM
The space shuttle, NORAD and the Pentagon were built with Federal funds. I would like: 1) a ride 2) a tour 3) to use some of those fancy computers...
When do I get to go?

Pappy John
July 24, 2005, 12:00 AM
Shermacman,....... :D

Farnham
July 24, 2005, 12:38 AM
The space shuttle, NORAD and the Pentagon were built with Federal funds. I would like: 1) a ride 2) a tour 3) to use some of those fancy computers...

I've done #2 and #3, and trust me, they ain't lyin about "lowest bidder," you couldn't pay me to do #1! ;)

S/F

Farnham

c_yeager
July 24, 2005, 02:57 AM
I'm curious on how many holes in the ceilings/walls there are at indoor federal shooting ranges...and how it compares with public ranges.

Ive been to a really nice new police-only range, and my observation was that it was only slightly less riddled with those scary holes all over the place than the public counterparts.

trickyasafox
July 24, 2005, 03:18 AM
i've been to an leo only range, as it was on land that was acquired by a private person, who continued to grant the police permission to use it. so pretty much it was the cops and about 5 other people with access.

40 s*w brass by the barrel, nickle plated and once fired
223 ammo by the barrel once fired.

holes in everything but the air and water.

i kinda wish i had a 40, the brass is just there for the taking but even a cheap skate like me cant justify taking brass i cant use. i thought about grabbing a few thousand and just trying to offer rediculous trades, like 5000 pieces of 40 for 500 pieces of 45.

bogie
July 24, 2005, 11:52 AM
Hey, definitely trade that stuff here. I don't shoot one either, but trade bait is trade bait.

And if you don't have a .223 now, you will...

My boss shoots at Quantico.

308win
July 24, 2005, 11:58 AM
I spent 16 months at #3; you aren't missing anything. Go see the Wall, WWII memorial, Smithsonian, etc. and spend your time on some quality visits.

Hawkmoon
July 24, 2005, 09:22 PM
10 USC 4309. Rifle ranges: availability for use by members and civilians

(a) Ranges available. -- All rifle ranges constructed in whole or in part with funds provided by the United States may be used by members of the armed forces and by persons capable of bearing arms.

(b) Military ranges. --

(1) In the case of a rifle range referred to in subsection (a) that is located on a military installation, the Secretary concerned may establish reasonable fees for the use by civilians of that rifle range to cover the material and supply costs incurred by the armed forces to make that rifle range available to civilians.

(2) Fees collected pursuant to paragraph (1) in connection with the use of a rifle range shall be credited to the appropriation available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range and shall be available for the operation and maintenance of that rifle range.

(3) Use of a rifle range referred to in paragraph (1) by civilians may not interfere with the use of the range by members of the armed forces.

(c) Regulations. -- Regulations to carry out this section with respect to a rifle range shall be prescribed, subject to the approval of the Secretary concerned, by the authorities controlling the rifle range.
May not will, and subject to the Secretary's approval. Good luck getting any government owned range opened to use by the general public. It will probably happen the day after Satan hosts a snowboarding competition in hell.
DMF,

The first "may" you emphasized is a granting of permission, not a conditional approval.

The second is also a granting of permission -- it allows (but does not require) the Secretary to establish fees. It does not allow the Secretary to prohibit access.

The last clause you emphasized only states that regulations shall be approved by the Secretary. The preceding clause states that regulations shall be established. "Shall" is mandatory language, not discretionary language.

In other words, it doesn't say the Secretary "may" grant access to the public, it says the Secretary "shall" grant access to the public.

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