[ezypikns]

Which one? I haven't heard anything bad about either. Pricewise it's a wash. One question: can I use Lee dies with either of these presses? Or do I have to use dedicated dies?
Thanks

[nbkky71]

I'll vouche that Dillon has a fantastic warranty. They've replaced parts on my 550B that I broke myself, at no charge.

[Quantrill]

Don't know much about the Hornaday but both a Dillon 450 and 550 have served me well. Dillon guarantee is fantastic. I use Lee dies in a couple of set- up "heads" for the 550 and they seem to work fine. Quantrill

[osteodoc08]

Another vote for Dillon. Any standard die will work in the RL550. The 450 is another story.

[raz-0]

Ok, hit anywhere and you can read about the 550. I purchased the lock n load AP myself. My budy has been reloading witha 550B for over a year. I'll try to give you a comparison as far as i'm able. You can also do a search for don't drink the blue cool-aid.

The short version is I think the hornady Llock and load AP is one of the best reloading values out there, and in many ways makes a better first press than any other because you can set it up to do batched "single stage" type loading to learn, and then jump up to auto indexed progressive when you got the hang of reloading, then add a case feeder when you need more volume. Not to mention it's got some really nice features that are like power seats witha memory.. Not strictly necessary for basic function, but pleasingly convenient.

in more detail:

Price - they are close. The LNL AP is cheaper for the base package, but you need a shellplate, and unless you are loading BIG pistol calibers or rifle, you need a pistol powder measure insert. So dillon is $349.95 + s/h to be ready to go minus dies, the LNL AP is $297 + $24 for shellplate + $13 for micrometer metering insert. So $334. Add a spare retaining spring doodad, and a spare ejector bit, for good measure for about $6 more and you are at $340 with some spares. Not arguing pricing, just trying to be informative about what you need and should order with your LNL AP if you get one so you aren't waiting for additional goodies to arrive.

Number of stations - TIE. 550 has 4, LNLAP has 5 but must bell as a separate stage, so it's really the same. This isn't necessarily obvious from marketing literature, so it's worth mentioning. You shouldn't think you can put ina powder cop or other powder checking station unless you seat and crimp in one stage.

Toolhead - LNL AP. The individual locking rings are AWESOME in ways that make you go duh I should have seen that before purchasing it. First they are SOLID. Once locked in, it's like one piece of metal, no exageration. Popping dies out without having to adjust them is what is REALLY useful. When setting up the dies, you can pop stations in and out to skip certain steps. new caliber tht you ahve to adjust for OAL etc, pop out the powder station and crank through progressively till you are happy without making out of spec live rounds or a mess. Then there is loading rifle rounds. Without having a separate tollhead, or a single stage for sizing, you just pop out all the non-sizing stations and let the sized brass collect in the bullet tray. after trimming, just put the stations back, crank out a test round to make sure you didn't bump anything badly, and get going. Basically, you can use it progressive, or pop things out modularly to do batch mode without losing adjustment, and it's actually very useful. Only downside is they sell them in odd quantities. The correct number would be IMO single or multiples of 4 since the powder station is so easy to adjut form one load to another. It comes single, 3-packs, or 10 packs. 10 packs are about $32 for effectively two full toolheads.

Caliber conversions - LNL AP. Dillon's are about $38 a pop. Most of the LNLAP shell plates are about $24-25 retail, and that is all you need for a caliber conversion unless loading .17 caliber rifle cartridges or extra large rifle cartridges, then you need a new powder measure sleeve or a other powder measure parts. Also chanign over on the LNL AP is pretty fast, about 2 minutes if not changing primer size, abbout 5 if you do. Also, if you are new to progressive and want to double check your work often, the spring retainer on the LNL is very easy to pop stuff in and out of quickly. The brass doohickies on the dillon aren't bad, but they are slower and caliber specific.

Primer system - slight advantage LNL. Tis is mainly due to the half-index on the way up, half-index on the way down indexing. This means it decaps and primes in two spots. Which gives you a nice tube you can hook to a garbage recepticle to collect all your spent primers and nothing bounces out. It also means the priming system stays a bit cleaner. Both very nice pluses.

indexing - LNL wins... cause the 550 just doesn't have it.

dies - dillon wins. The 4 stage manual indexing gives you more space between stages so what dies you use really aren't an issue. Also it is more tolerant of length of dies. The individual bolt actiony collars of the LNL AP may not give you enough space to adjust and use a lockring with some dies. (IIRC older lee dies can be at issue). Newer lee dies are usable, but are pushing it. Also, for larger calibers like .45 pistol, the lee dies outter diameter on their FCD in the ejecting station requires bending the ejector wire subtly to get it going (the wire eventually wears a flat spot in the dies outter wall that seems to have no ill effect other than you wnat to be careful about orientation when you pop it out and replace it using the collar mechanism.

case feeder - LNL wins. $150 and available now. the 550 is getting one, but it's going to be 12-05 at the erliest and rumor has it the price point is $200-250 and no auto indexing added to the press.

powder measure - LNL wins. mainly because there are factory micrometer inserts cheap, it's easy to drain, and it's a more modern design that has less issues with different types of powders.It's also REAL fast to change out powder inserts.

warranty - dillon. It's hard to beat the dillon CS, but hornady's isn't bad from what I hear.

fit and finish - tie. about even as far as quality. the hornady is a shiny red though instead of a dull pale blue if that makes a difference. both have some things that could be imporved in fit and finish (mostly finish), but nothing sub-par on either of them.


Now if one discusses the 650 vs. the LNL ap, the 650 has several distinct advantages, most notably a powder check station. but it also has a much heftier price tag.

[yorec]

Interesting stuff, Raz-0.

I've got a 550b and will stick with it - good choice, I think - thought the Hornady system may very well be it's equal in many respects! Talk about a win-win situation. :cool:

[Rockstar]

Seems to me a fairer comparison would be between the Hornady and a Dillon 650. I personally don't want to load on a non-indexing press, so either the Hornady or 650 would accommodate that.

I'm a Dillon guy, myself.

[moredes]

I'd have to agree; I too, think a fairer comparison would be the 650 vs. the LNL AP.

Also, this statement isn't completely accurate if one is willing to modify station 2:

Number of stations - TIE. 550 has 4, LNLAP has 5 but must bell as a separate stage, so it's really the same. This isn't necessarily obvious from marketing literature, so it's worth mentioning. You shouldn't think you can put ina powder cop or other powder checking station unless you seat and crimp in one stage. :

with some kitchen-table engineering and a couple of Lyman bells, the powder drop and mouth-belling operation can be combined, freeing up station 5 for an RCBS Lockout Die.

If anyone wants the directions to mod their LNL AP:

You can modify a Hornady Lock N Load powder measure with a Lyman Multi-charge die. Here's how:

Making room for a powder detection device/powder die modification

I use an RCBS lock out die. The way I have mine set up is:
Station 1 sizing die
Station 2 powder charge/expand die (will explain in a minute)
Station 3 RCBS lock out die
Station 4 seating die
Station 5 crimping die

I use the AP case actuated powder measure, with a slight modification. I took the short powder spacer (meant for a rifle) and drilled and threaded it to accept a Lyman hollow expander insert (out of a Lyman Multi-charge die). The modification was easy, only took about 15 minutes. This modification is inexpensive ($10 for tap, $18-20 for Lyman Multi-charge die) and works like a champ.

Placement of the expander insert:
The powder dispenser die does not contain an expander. If you use Hornady pistol dies, this is not an issue, as your crimp die also contains your seater die, combining those two functions. If you use other type dies or want to add both a powder check type die and a crimp die, such as a Hornady taper crimp die or a Lee factory crimp die, you would have to modify the Powder dispenser internal bushing to accept a Lyman Multi-charge die set hollow expander, giving you expansion and powder through capabilities at your powder station.

You can buy just the hollow expanders without buying the complete Lyman die, the part numbers are 9MM - #7998219, 10MM/.40 S&W - #7998208, .45 Cal - #799822, .32cal US - #7998215, .32 cal soviet - #7998216, .38/.357 - #7998217 for $2.00 each plus $4.00 shipping from Lyman, but I wanted all the pistol expanders (You wouldn't need these for rifle and I want to add a powder check die as well as a separate crimp die, such as the Lee FCD) and $18.00 for the die set wasn't all that bad.

Using the hollow expanders from the Lyman die set to modify the middle sized rifle insert from the Hornady auto powder drop:

Now for the placement of the plug: First, locate the middle-sized rifle insert for the auto powder drop. It may be assembled inside of the auto powder drop already or it may be loose in the packaging. The one you are looking for is about 1.1 inches long. Drill a 0.317” hole through the Hornady Powder dispenser internal bushing. You are not really drilling a hole, more like enlarging the one already there. Next tap the hole.

MAKE SURE you drill and tap the correct end. If you look at the insert one side has a long gentle sloping funnel towards a smaller hole. The other side has a very abrupt taper to the hole, that's the side you want to drill and tap. I'm not sure exactly what the thread is on the tap. I took the Lyman insert with me to the hardware store and handed it to a clerk and told him that I wanted a hole threaded to match it.

This modification sounds difficult, but was easy to do. I used a hand drill (You could use a drill press if you had one, but I didn't need it.) and the tap isn't expensive, I had a tap set, so I don't know what a tap handle cost, I just got the tap, as it wasn't in the set I had.


Thanks to "Dave in GA" for those instructions.

It was very easy to do; it took longer to read the instructions than to complete the task.

[Johnny Guest]

A comparison thread such as this is started perhaps once a month, on an average. Usually, the same several members contribute essentially the same information for two or three repeats, and then they, too, become weary of rehashing the same information.

Click on Search on the top black bar on every page, and then on Advanced Search. Limit the Keywords entry to either "Hornady" or "Dillon." Limit the Search in Forum(s) to "Handloading and Reloading," and then click on Search Now.

Here's a start for you, searching only for "Hornady," and picking out the threads for progressive presses.

10 MAY 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=138294&highlight=Hornady

25 APR 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=136220&highlight=Hornady

12 APR 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=134361&highlight=Hornady

26 MAR 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=131801&highlight=Hornady

23 FEB 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=127063&highlight=Hornady

21 FEB 2005
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=126617&highlight=Hornady

I'll lock this thread for a day or two to give those interested a chance to read these threads, and maybe search some more.

Best,
Johnny

[Johnny Guest]

Topic opened for any new observations or comments.

Johnny

[oct_97]

I like to use the Lee factory Crimp Dies, cannot do so with the LnL.

[raz-0]

really, then I must not be using one in my press... why do you think you can't use them on the LnL other than living without a powder check?

[milanuk]

I was asking around about pretty much the same thing a short while back... I was leaning pretty hard in the direction of the L-n-L, as on the surface it appears to be *technically* ahead of the Dillon in a couple of areas as I perceive things... other people can and do see things differently. In the end, I did go w/ a 550 since I'm mainly loading rifle ammo and I like having a certain amount of manual control of things like indexing, etc. as well as the enormous installed base of users, including several guys I shoot with locally. Nobody local uses a Hornady so my first foray into loading rifle ammo on a progressive would have been *all* on my own (not discounting the excellent peer support one can get from an good online forum like this one, but sometimes it's handy to have someone local able to come over and lay hands on the machine to help straighten things out).

FWIW, I am already considering that I may have under-estimated my loading consumption needs. Amazing how much more shooting a person wants to do when some of the tedium of loading is diminished. A press w/ auto-indexing and case feeder is starting to look pretty doggone good for my higher volume stuff, though I'm pretty sure I can keep myself in match ammo up to my ears w/ the 550 as it is right now. I'd like to try a L-n-L for my AR ammo, but it may be more of a 'want' for sake of comparison than anything else; the 550 so far has done extremely well overall; the only area that I have any fault w/ loading progressively is throwing charges for LR match loads and I have a way around that so I'm pretty happy with it even there.

Also, speaking of warranty... a guy that I bump into regularly on HP loading forums managed to break, as in snap, the frame of his Dillon 550 in the process of forming some cases (6 XC I think). From what I heard, Dillon sent him a new frame casting no problems. Gotta love that.

Monte

[oct_97]

Powder Check/Lockout Die is one reason. Other is I did not want to have to modify, or eliminate, the Cartridge Ejector Spring to do so .

[raz-0]

the bent piece of metal wire that is the ejector should work with most lee FCDs. Might ding up the die a tad though. Checking it out, my .444 marlin FCD would work with the stock ejector,but it'd probably put a flat spot in it like my setup with .45acp. .45ACP required me to bend it a bit and has caused a flat spot in the die.

It's real easy to remove, fiddle with and put back. under $3 at midway. Product #: 872859. You just have to give it the slightest bend in the middle.

The dies and the ejector are cheap enough and I like the results of the FCD, so it's worth it to me. Might not be worth it to others, but saying they don't work is an overstatement.

[jw29650]

I started with a Lee turrent press with Pro auto disk powder measure that connected to the bell die for powder charge in second stage. I then purchased the Hornady LNL Auto. When loading pistol rounds, I use the auto disk powder measure on the bell die just like on the turrent press. This allows me to use the FCD in the 4th stage and the LNL 5 stage is open. When loading rifle rounds I have a universal decaping die in 1st stage as I size and trim before hand. I have the powder measure that came with the LNL in stage 2, powder check die in stage 3, seating in stage 4 with nothing again in stage 5. I really love the LNL press. The priming setup is very simple and easy to use. The only problem I have had is if powder spills it sometimes gets into the primer slide track and does not allow the slide to finish getting into position to place the primer correctly under the brass case. I keep a can of computer cleaner air on hand to blow things clean if this happens. This has only happened when I was loading rifle rounds. I have operated a friends Dillon 550 and was happy with it. Overall I think you would be happy with what ever you selected. If asked I would recommend the Hornady over the Dillon because it is what I have used the most. I like the spring retainer better than the buttons on Dillon.

JW296500

[Carlos]

Another vote for the Dillon, and I use Lee dies in all of my toolheads.

And, in all fairness, edited to add, I know nothing of the Hornady. However, I do know Lee.

And I love Dillon.