Antiques rechambered: still antique? NEED HELP

Is a firearm built up on an antique receiver still considered an antique, or just a C&R?

i.e. those famous 1893 Turkish mausers, rechambered to 7.92x57JS in the 1930's (but still the same 1893 receiver): they are still antiques according to "The FAQ" but...

I NEED THE LEGAL REFERENCE or ATF LETTER, or something authoritative.

Please help!
Thanks,
C-

I don't think it would still qualify as antique for a C&R. I'm pretty sure "sporterizing" (cutting down or replacing the military stock) takes a gun out of the antique category, but I'm sure some cruffler will be along soon to give the definitive word.

I don't think it would still qualify as antique for a C&R. I'm pretty sure "sporterizing" (cutting down or replacing the military stock) takes a gun out of the antique category, but I'm sure some cruffler will be along soon to give the definitive word.

+1

You may have to contact the ATF yourself to get a definitive answer. I suggest mail so you have a written copy on an ATF letterhead. :) http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ncleone/phpimage/hitdb/gen.php?cheese=atfLetterHead

Yes -- do contact the ATF.

I think that sporterizing a C&R gunis a different thing than doing similar mods to an ANTIQUE firearm (which is, in effect, a non-gun from the ATF perspective, in its original form.)

I don't know if its going to change the way the "antique" is viewed, but I'm pretty sure how the ATF views a C&R weapons doesn't apply, here.

Changing a C&R weapon from its basically "normal" configuration makes it non-C&R... at least with regard to subsequent transfers.

From what I understand, for an antique all that has to happen is the reciever has to have been made before 1899. Take a look here: http://www.gunsnammo.com/. Plenty of M39 Mosins that were produced in the 70's, but had pre '99 recievers, and are listed as antiques.

Can't help with official ruling, though.

EDIT: Here is the official definition, could go either way. http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/04nov20031500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/aprqtr/27cfr178.11.htm

Changing a C&R weapon from its basically "normal" configuration makes it non-C&R... at least with regard to subsequent transfers.

Not necessarily, if the weapon is over 50 years old then it is a relic no matter what it looks like. If you alter a curio then the transfer issue kicks in.

Not having read the links, my uninformed opinion (so take it for what it cost you :D ) on the Turk Mausers that you mentioned is that they are no longer antique but are C&R eligible (the rechambering was done 50+ years ago).

The Mosins though (IIRC) chambered the original round (even though they were assembled in the 70's) that it was designed for so nothing on the receiver changed (and to the ATF, the receiver is the weapon).

As I understand it, the receiver is the legal firearm. Everything else is an attachment. If the receiver has not been changed (rechambered, for example), it stays an antique. I just ordered a 1970 dated Mosin over the mail and it's not going through an FFL or C&R. The receiver date is 1896, and that makes it a legal antique no matter what happens later. The C&R status is moot since it's not a legal firearm anyway.

There are a lot of places shipping pre-1898 Finnish Mosins and Turk '93's with later barrel dates as antiques at this point, so the question seems to be pretty well resolved. You can always ask the BATF to be sure.

that's my understanding as well: an antique is an antique.

All the mail ordering points to that being the case as well.

But i just want the official source reference for my info.

C-