Mythbusters - How deep under water to be safe from bullets. Video Download.


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Crosshair
July 16, 2005, 02:36 AM
I recorded the show (Aired on 7/13) and recompressed it small enough to be downloadable. I took away everything except them testing THAT myth, this is not the whole show. It is about 18 min of video. Quality is OK and I hope you enjoy.

Anyone who would like to donate to help with the cost of bandwith can donate to my PayPal at benjaminaw@lycos.com
(Yes I know they are Anti, it's what I have. :( )

Admins, if this is not OK, just message me and I will take the video down.

Mythbusters - Guns and Water Condensed.avi 48 Mb Download (http://gra.midco.net/video3/Mythbusters%20-%20Guns%20and%20Water%20Condenced.avi)

/Pray my webserver can take the load. :uhoh:

If you enjoyed reading about "Mythbusters - How deep under water to be safe from bullets. Video Download." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Taurus 66
July 16, 2005, 02:46 AM
I'd rather watch the toaster as it darkens bread.

carebear
July 16, 2005, 03:01 AM
Toasters don't darken bread, they make it heavy.

Crosshair
July 16, 2005, 03:07 AM
I thought toasters made smoke?

/No, my cooking skills arn't that bad. :p

chris in va
July 16, 2005, 03:14 AM
Hey, thanks for taking the time to record that episode. I missed it being in the hospital, now I saw it.

Anyone care to explain why the 3' of water stopped the faster rounds? Love the shotty slug though...what a riot.

carebear
July 16, 2005, 03:14 AM
Heavy.

Cause when it's done, it's no longer "light". :neener:

jkswiss
July 16, 2005, 04:24 AM
I think only the faster rounds fragment while the slower moving rounds keep its shape.

I think when you break the 2500 ft/sec mark, bullets just disintegrate on impact basically.

If you noticed, the 9mm entered the water much more cleanly entering straight down. The 50 cal made a HUGE splash, throwing many gallons of water many feet into the air. Thats energy taken away from the bullet. I'll have to admit, I was very surprised with the results.

abaddon
July 16, 2005, 04:35 AM
My computer would take forever to download that. Would anyone care to summarize their findings?

odysseus
July 16, 2005, 05:03 AM
Thanks for taking the time to post that. That was good to watch.

Funny how they were surprised about .223. It did what it was designed to do by disinigrating like it did.

IRONFIST
July 16, 2005, 05:35 AM
When I was a sprout, and still quite stupid, I got the bright idea to shoot a .22 LR into a full 5-gallon bucket of water, in the bathtub. Yes, I know... I was an idiot. Anyhoo, I learned that a 5-gallon bucket of water creates enough resistance that the bullet won't penetrate the heavy plastic of the bottom. I consider myself extremely lucky that it didn't ricochet up into me, or that it didn't drill a hole in the tub bottom. Boy, my Dad would have been hot under the collar if his tub got plugged!

Michael

UltimaSE
July 16, 2005, 07:11 PM
Crosshair could you give me some details about your computer setup that you used to record the show? I've been meaning to put together something similar.

UltimaSE

MDG1976
July 16, 2005, 11:38 PM
I was most surprised at how little the .50 BMG recoiled. I guess the giant muzzle brake had something to do with it. Their ads must be true...

Crosshair
July 16, 2005, 11:59 PM
UltimaSE

Crosshair could you give me some details about your computer setup that you used to record the show? I've been meaning to put together something similar.

It's not much really. It is an AOpen DX34R-U Dual CPU mothroboard with dual Intel Confidential P3 Tualatin with 512Kb L2 CPU's running at 930 Mhz (143x6.5). (Don't ask me where (Or how) I got them, all I will say that the sale involved a subpoena from Intel. :uhoh: ) Then I have 512Mb of PC150 SDRAM for main memory. For graphics I have a RADION 9000 All-In-Wonder. I have a 120 GB Western Digital 7200 RPM 8MB cache har drive partitioned into two 20GB and one 80GB partition (OS, Programs, and Data). I use iuVCR to capture the video using MPEG-4 (NOT Divix, that pile of crap can burn in :evil: ) for video and MP3 for the audio. I use best quality when capturing, I shrink it down in post processing. (I use VirtualDub for that) I use the RCA-In to the AIW and run the cable connection through my Sony VCR. The VCR has a better tuner so I get a better picture. (Though I have to manualy change the channels.) I have a 100Mbit Network card to connect to my other two computers. (Yes I have 3 computers not counting my laptop. :D ) I have been toying with firewire networking lately though. My server stores all my video before I burn it to DVD for archiving. My server has 1.2 TB of storage space. I use a KVM to use all 3 from the same monitor. Here is a pic of my setup.

Crosshair's Computer Setup - BIG FILE (http://gra.midco.net/video3/IMG_0150.JPG)

My video capture system is on the far right, my server is the one burried in the back with the rats nest of wires, and finaly, my "Everything else/gaming" machine is on the far right with no cover on it. My three VCR's are on the far right and my DVD cases are on the shelf below. Yes it is a bit of a mess, but I keep it sanitary. As you can plainly see, my computer desk is often my gun desk. The white noise of all of them running makes falling asleep easy. Yes, this whole thing is in my beedroom. :what:

Computer/Gun geek. :neener:

Cesiumsponge
July 17, 2005, 12:01 AM
The 50 cal made a HUGE splash, throwing many gallons of water many feet into the air. Thats energy taken away from the bullet. I'll have to admit, I was very surprised with the results.

Some of the splash was also caused by the exiting muzzle gases. The barrel was only a few feet from the water. I bet if that giant brake wasn't on and no gases were diverted rearward, the splash would be much more impressive.

What was curious is that he called the .50 caliber (didn't say BMJ) an armor piercing round. They used what appeared to be match rounds with no colored tip markings. They never told us if they are firing FMJ, JHP out of the pistol. They never said what ammo the M1 Garand uses (don't assume the audience knows). I felt it was a bit dangerous on the vertical tank to teeter up there with a 12ga. At least they tried to do an objective test; the main purpose of their show is entertainment afterall. At least it is better than an anti-gun piece.

Oh, one thing of note. Did anyone else scratch their head when whats-his-name collected all the debris of the .223? It looked like there was more material than there should be in a .223 bullet.

GregGry
July 17, 2005, 12:33 AM
Thanks for the entertainment... What I am curious to know about, is in the movie saving private ryan, the rounds were going really far into the water, and hitting people. I can't imagine thoes rounds that were being fired (out of machine guns) were more powerfull then the .50 rifle, so in real life they wouldn't have been hit?

odysseus
July 17, 2005, 04:29 AM
Crosshair's Computer Setup - BIG FILE

Two words: Cable Management :neener:

Damn! One wrong move and you could have an incident on your hands!

Azrael256
July 17, 2005, 05:00 AM
Oh, one thing of note. Did anyone else scratch their head when whats-his-name collected all the debris of the .223? It looked like there was more material than there should be in a .223 bullet. I noticed the same thing. A .223 is what... half a cubic centimeter? It looked like he had a big fistful of lead. I've melted the lead out of soft-point 7.62x39 (Don't worry, pulled it out of the case first.), and I don't recall getting anywhere near that much material.

Ok, upon further review... I think these guys are idiots now. Well, ok, maybe not total idiots, but out of their league here. I'm pretty sure the bullet is intact. At what my player says is the 12 minute mark, you can clearly see a bullet-shaped copper thing in the top right corner of his hand. What he calls "the very tip of it" looks just like the whole FMJ rounds I've seen in the reloading aisle of the gun shop. The rest of that pile of debris is WAY too much lead for a .223. Maybe the fragments from that muzzle loader shot that they couldn't find? He might have hit his test rig and caused it to fragment. There also may well have been shots that we didn't see.

Ok, even further review... The flashback to the bulletproof glass thing talks about how the M1 punched through the glass. I didn't actually see an M1 in that shot. I did see what looked like an '03. Same round and all, but DIFFERENT GUN!!!

Ok, forget it. These guys are full of it.

c_yeager
July 17, 2005, 05:13 AM
I think only the faster rounds fragment while the slower moving rounds keep its shape.

There is a gelatin test using shotgun slugs which showed the same thing. The low-velocity rounds had better penetration that the high velocity rounds. Now if only i could find the link for that...

Crosshair
July 17, 2005, 05:37 AM
Oh, one thing of note. Did anyone else scratch their head when whats-his-name collected all the debris of the .223? It looked like there was more material than there should be in a .223 bullet.

They probably shot several times into the water. Then spliced it together to make it look like one shot. Notice when he is counting down to firing the 50 BMG on the shot looking straight at him the bolt handel is up. Obviously some splicing going on.

Ryder
July 17, 2005, 08:25 AM
Read way back about Army tests where they found 2500fps was the optimum velocity for minimizing deflection. Interesting that was the claimed velocity for the 223.

That video makes me want one of those Marine Magnum 12ga even more now than I did before :) Funny stuff!

My connection is very fast but if you dialin users rightclick and "save as" to your desktop things should go a lot quicker. Mine downloaded in the blink of an eye and I was watching the video in a few seconds.

RecoilRob
July 17, 2005, 09:37 AM
I got into an argument with a guy at work about that show. He claimed that they claimed that the 50 BMG was an AP round.....NO WAY!!! If it wasn't black tipped, it wasn't AP and if it was (what I suspect) a FMJ lead core, how does that differ from the 5.56 and .30? Of COURSE it would disintegrate hitting the water.

Years ago, I saw a training film about UDT guys in WW11. They were free diving in a logoon into which a twin-50 mount was shooting and they had to swim out and fetch a couple of rounds as they sank. IIRC, they were zipping at LEAST 10 ft deep at about a 40 degree angle so they were penetrating 15+ feet of water.

Thin jacketed lead core ANYTHING will perform the same on water at the same velocity. What were these goofballs trying to prove?

rwc
July 17, 2005, 12:13 PM
FYIO - http://www.topglock.com/info/faq.htm
Scroll down to "Can I shoot my Glock underwater?"

I have no personal expeience with this, but I do know of freedivers in CA who carry for shark protection.

MuzzleBlast
July 17, 2005, 01:35 PM
It is always good to find another person who is part of the mainstream media that is a gun guy, which this Jamie guy apparently is. "Eyes and ears, everybody!"

nico
July 17, 2005, 03:10 PM
Thanks for posting. I meant to watch the show when it aired but forgot about it.

Jeff Timm
July 17, 2005, 04:03 PM
Don't nitpick, these guys are about the only ones in the "media" with a positive firearms attitude.

Geoff
Who likes how they introduce visiting experts, like the muzzle loading marksperson. :what:

ctdonath
July 17, 2005, 04:17 PM
Thanks for posting the video. Interesting.

While there are errors and terrors in there ("...armor piercing...", "...fearsome 2800fps..."), give the guys major credit for trying all this out, and doing so intelligently and responsibly - way better than nearly anything on TV. Their conclusions were quite interesting.

Big question is: what's up with the bullets shredding themselves so badly?
As the penetration was fairly shallow, someone just needs to lay out a big tarp underwater in a lake and gather up the pieces, reporting the results to THR.

'scuze me, I think I hear my underwater-capable Glock 17 calling me to go swimming...

EasternShore
July 17, 2005, 04:36 PM
Watch the shotgun test in frame by frame. Teh tank was shattered due to the way the shot gun was fired. Take a 2'x2'x10' tank, fill with water, put lid on top, insert bussiness end of shotgun in small hole in lid.:what: Now think about this, rigid surfaces are now surrounding the muzzle blast. :eek: When Jamie pulls the trigger the water starts spraying from a crack in the top instantly. Hmmm these guys aren't so smart for "experts". Darn good entertainment though!

meathammer
July 17, 2005, 04:39 PM
I found the video interesting. Thanks for the download. I wonder about the ammo used for the M1. I know they said FMJ. During WWII, wasn't almost all issue ammo actually Steel Jacketed? I wonder if they would get different results with old surplus .30-06 or something other than copper jacketed FMJ.

Anyone?


--meathammer

GunGoBoom
July 17, 2005, 05:27 PM
Man, thanks for that download. I'm surprised Jamie didn't double up on ears while shooting a .50 BMG indoors.

Crosshair
July 17, 2005, 05:45 PM
meathammer

During WWII, wasn't almost all issue ammo actually Steel Jacketed?

I have some Korean Surplus 30-06. The bullet jacket is copper with a fair amount of steel mixed in. (A magnet will pick it up.) I orininaly thought they where steel core, but when I found the core was lead I figured that the jacket had steel in it. Properly made, rounds with steel/copper jackets do not harm the bore.

Brasso
July 17, 2005, 06:03 PM
I had some concerns regarding the ballistic gel. That stuff has to be made just right and chilled to the correct temperature to give any usefull data. Leaving it submerged in a tank / pool of water is going to change the penetration characteristics quite a bit.

Snake Eyes
July 17, 2005, 06:14 PM
Quote:
Crosshair's Computer Setup - BIG FILE



Two words: Cable Management


Two more words: No Girlfriend

:neener:

carebear
July 17, 2005, 07:16 PM
On the bullet disintigration issue. That was smack out of the muzzle, back the rifle / machine gun off a couple hundred yards, let the MV drop a bit and you'd have 165 gr. .30 cals that I assume would do as well as the 145 gr. 9mm. There's probably a magic number for an FMJ for disintegration.

That'd give us our through and through's 6-7 feet under.

dodging230grainers
July 17, 2005, 07:30 PM
I'm thinking the best ammo for shooting something underwater would be FMJ 147 grain 9mm's or FMJ 230 grain .45acp's.

meathammer
July 17, 2005, 07:33 PM
Properly made, rounds with steel/copper jackets do not harm the bore.

Hi Crosshair,

I have some older Danish surplus that is steel jacketed (color of bullet is silver, actually kind of neat), what I was trying to get at is if a steel jacketed bullet (although MILD steel) will hold together better than newer copper jacketed bullets. Just wondering. I was assuming they are similar toughness, but don't know.

--meathammer

Crosshair
July 17, 2005, 08:40 PM
meathammer

Ah, say a few of those once, kind of neat. From what I understand they are very soft iorn/steel. Again, no real risk to the bore. Armies wouldn't want to spend the money to rebarrel their weapons every 6 months so they made sure that they worked.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mythbusters - How deep under water to be safe from bullets. Video Download." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!