concealed carry vs. un-concealed


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effengee
July 18, 2005, 01:15 AM
I often read about CCW permits. I've asked this question before without any real clear response:
In any given state, in which it is legal to carry concealed with a permit, is it also legal to carry unconcealed without a permit???

Can a state pass a law that keeps you from bearing arms? :confused:

Here in Vermont, carrying a firearm concealed or not, is perfectly legal so long as you don't intend to commit a crime. Period, end-of-story...
I'm totally serious, you can look it up...

Vermont Statutes Annotated online

I have been told on several occasions by the law enforcement community that it is preferred that I conceal it if I am carrying because "It keeps the out-of-staters from getting nervous and calling us every time one of you guys walks into the grocery store."
I've also been asked to leave stores because my gun was showing...
I've also made the mistake of forgetting (not really, but you know what I mean) that I'm even wearing it and I'll reach for something in a store and next thing I know I'm talking to some security guy or there's a few fellow shoppers that totally avoid me like the plague...

I usually will conceal carry just to keep the looks from happening...

My favorite carry:
Inside a fanny pack. Completely discreet, year round use, always fashionable.

Sometimes I carry a handgun in an Uncle Mike's inside the pant holster that I tuck into my right front pocket and let the belt clip hook on the outside of my pocket. Not only does this let you sit in a car comfortably, but with a slightly loose T-shirt it looks like nothing more than a pager or a cell phone...

jimi

"A well regulated militia" is NOT the National Guard NOR is it a bunch of beer-swilling camouflage wearing yay-hoos spouting off about gun rights.
It consists of "we, the people" therefore, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" guarantees that there will never be a time when a citizen of the United States has to say:
"I wish I had a gun to defend my liberty and my life."

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Edmond
July 18, 2005, 01:32 AM
next thing I know I'm talking to some security guy or there's a few fellow shoppers that totally avoid me like the plague...

Yeah, well you know that the criminals like to wear their guns out in the open to let everyone know they're going to commit a crime. :rolleyes:

It just amazes me that people are so scared of what basically is a piece of metal. People should start realizing that a gun has never controlled itself into killing or destroying anything, it's the human behind that gun that does those things.

mattw
July 18, 2005, 01:59 AM
always fashionable

i had to laugh when i saw that.. :p

maybe for you up in vermont, down here in mississippi us 20somethings can't get away with wearing that without a sound reaming from friends and the ever popular "what a fag.." from the other kids.

(in that context the use of fag, short for faggot, is not inteded to be a degrading remark aimed at homosexuals.. it just means the same thing as "stupid" or "moron" or what have you)(am i allowed to post that here? I hope we are all adults)

Open carry (as far as i know) is legal everywhere but maybe ********** (a.k.a CCCP) but people are just so alarmed and put off by it that it is usually frowned upon by local law enforcement and cited as disturbing the peace. I wish it were more popular and that people could get used to it.

Farnham
July 18, 2005, 02:41 AM
In any given state, in which it is legal to carry concealed with a permit, is it also legal to carry unconcealed without a permit???

In Texas it is illegal to open carry at any time. CHL holder or not. Found that kinda odd when I got my CHL.

Check out Packing.org (http://www.packing.org) for more specific information.

S/F

Farnham

Kamicosmos
July 18, 2005, 02:45 AM
Also, you have to look at county and city rules. FOr example, in my town, open carry is expressly verboten.

But, I carry concealed with my permit. Maybe out west open carry is more acceptable. But around here....just having a gun image on your shirt gets people all worked up. :uhoh:

mattw
July 18, 2005, 03:05 AM
wow.. i guess i was very wrong on that one.

chris in va
July 18, 2005, 03:19 AM
Yup, you were. :D

I'm thankful we can OC in Virginia, not to do it but so we don't have to deal with ninny's that happen to see 1/4" of gun handle exposed when we reach to get the gun cleaner off the top shelf at wally world. Some states that would be illegal... :eek:

bigun15
July 18, 2005, 03:28 AM
My favorite carry:
Inside a fanny pack...always fashionable.

As a teenager, you made me laugh quite hard at that one.

(am i allowed to post that here? I hope we are all adults)

Nah you're not all adults. But I can handle it. All of us can. Have you been to a high school recently?

mattw
July 18, 2005, 03:38 AM
I've already graduated.. Class of 2005. I don't know wether to be offended or feel accomplished. Sad to say that in this day and age that is still something that not everyone can do. I guess no one will take me seriously until i'm 40 or however old you guys are. (btw, nothing against old people, my dad is one.)

No_Brakes23
July 18, 2005, 03:50 AM
Fag and Gay both had uses before their association with sexual orientation, and have uses after. I remember hearing both fag as a generic negative term for a male and gay as a synonym for lame (with no connection to sexual preference,) as early as 1981. I have continued to hear and use both words in that context to this day, in various places around the world.

I am surprised to hear open carry is illegal in TX. What about hunting?

My preference would be Vermont style no-permit concealed/open option, but I would gladly take open or concealed here in the PRK.

Lennyjoe
July 18, 2005, 11:48 AM
Open carry and CCW are legal here in Arizona. Don't want to get a CCW permit, then open carry. Don't want to open carry, get a CCW permit. ;)

Werewolf
July 18, 2005, 12:05 PM
In Oklahoma open carry is illegal - period.

The CCW permit covers deringers, revolvers and semi-auto pistols in ascending order. If you qualify on a semi you can carry any of the three, revolver you can only carry a revolver or deringer and if you qual on a deringer that's all you can carry. In addition the max caliber you can carry is .45.

The permit, unlike in some states, only pertains to firearms; it does not allow you to carry a knife. In fact knife carry in OK (except when hunting) is verboten for just about everything regardless of size or deployability based on the way the law is worded. Lucky for the knife guys the knife laws are not enforced all that much.

If I could change the CCW law in OK it would allow both open and concealed carry with a permit and would apply to any concealable weapon not just firearms.

Unfortunately, as conservative as our state is, that's not ever gonna happen.

effengee
July 18, 2005, 01:23 PM
In the words of Jay from Jay and silent Bob strike back::
"Oh yeah? Well there's a line, and on this side of it, we ain't gay."

Personally I don't care what your sexual orientaion is, if you own at least one gun, you're alright in my book... Besides, this is Vermont:
YOU CAN GET MARRIED AND CARRY AT THE WEDDING!!!! :evil:

Funny related story:
The first "same-sex" (to use the :barf: politically correct term) marriage in Vermont after the law passed were a girl I used to work construction with and her partner of 12 years... They had already made a beautiful couple...

The fanny pack thing...
One that doesn't look... you know... unfashionable let's say...
I find that black leather or an old military butt pack work best...
I've gotten a few friends to start carrying this way.
One girl I know wears an old army pistol belt with an M-14 mag pouch that neatly carries her cigarettes, cell-phone, and a baby Beretta .25

Yeah, I know, it looks kinda funny seeing a guy wearing one.
But if it's a choice between a little good-natured ribbing by my friends or not being able to carry, I'll stick with my funny looking fanny pack...
I usually "live" at the lake in the summer and guns don't do well in swim trunks or lake water... Also I don't have to worry about the "Ooopps! sorry, I didn't mean to flash you with a weapon" thing...

I never really cared too much what someone thought of my clothing choices.
I'd make a fashion Nazi have a conniption fit...
Think tie dyed Grateful Dead shirt and cutoff BDU's with unlaced boots...
I mix prints and stripes, pastels and solids...
I've even worn a pink sparkled cummerbund that matched my date's prom dress with a tie that didn't...

Alright this thread is getting weird...

So, what other states can I carry unconcealed in???

jimbo

fiVe
July 18, 2005, 01:31 PM
Open carry is illegal in Florida--CWL or not.

But I'm ok with it. I prefer concealed anyway & we have reciprocity with several states.

R/fiVe

wmenorr67
July 18, 2005, 02:11 PM
If I could change the CCW law in OK it would allow both open and concealed carry with a permit and would apply to any concealable weapon not just firearms.

I disagree with you Werewolf. I would change to Vermont style that you don't need no stinking permit. But if they want us to have a permit at least let us be exempt from the NCIS check.

Werewolf
July 18, 2005, 03:12 PM
^^^^^
Vermont style carry is on the face of it the way things ought to be but then "if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle" as the saying goes. :evil:

I was pretty hard core against any permits at all until I got my own CCW a number of years ago. The wide variety of totally clueless questions to the attorney who taught the class and the abysmal performance of about 1/3 of the folks in the shooting portion made me reevaluate my stand.

Some folks just don't belong out in public with a concealed or open carried firearm without training in both the law and technique. The OK CCW requirements provide an extremely minimal exposure to both.

But then since as far as I know there haven't been any instances of an OK CCW holder screwing up - ever - my head says I'm wrong - my gut still says folks need to be minimally tested first.

Andrew Rothman
July 18, 2005, 03:31 PM
So, what other states can I carry unconcealed in???

The Minnesota (shall-issue) carry permit does not mention "concealed" anywhere. Without a permit, you can't carry*. With one, you can carry open or concealed.

I always carry concealed. SmartCarry is more fashionable than a fanny pack, and there are no "oops" reveals.
----
* Yeah, I know that's an oversimplification. You can carry at home, at work, between the two, to and from a range or a gunsmith, etc., etc., etc.

P95Carry
July 18, 2005, 03:38 PM
PA - shall issue - CCW always when out. At home, on own property (oops, careful with that statement - it ain't mine is it!) - open when it suits me.

Because PA has no statute actually barring open carry it is de facto (theoretically) legal. However in today's unfortunate climate, probably not worth the hassle - certainly not in heavily populated areas.

Overall, concealed is sensible way to go for most I reckon.

thumbody
July 18, 2005, 03:39 PM
In Michigan open carry is not illegal But I have never seen anyone carrying openly unless they were hunting.
A person would probably recieve a lot of hassle over it and possibly be charged with disturbing the peace or some other BS type of charge.

ctdonath
July 18, 2005, 08:20 PM
Be aware that culture may not match law.

West Virginia:
Open carry is legal - and you WILL be arrested anyway.

geekWithA.45
July 18, 2005, 09:45 PM
In any given state, in which it is legal to carry concealed with a permit, is it also legal to carry unconcealed without a permit???


It varies _radically_ by state. PA & VA, for example, fit your example: permit for concealment, no permit for open carry needed. The magnitude of the turdstorm you'll encounter open carrying varies by precise location.



Can a state pass a law that keeps you from bearing arms?

For all practical purposes, YES, despite the explicit directives of the Constitution otherwise.

Great legal and mental gesticulations are in play to preserve this state of affairs.

NJ's a good example: they can, and routinely do, simply withhold documents needed to purchase or transfer arms indefinately, without recourse. For all practical purposes, they will NOT grant carry permits so that ordinary people can excercise their discretion as to whether and where to be armed on any given day.

Standing Wolf
July 18, 2005, 10:44 PM
I carry both ways. It seems to me nobody should ever have to carry concealed, have to carry openly, or be prevented by law from carrying, period.

That's what the Second Amendment says, after all.

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