[rick_reno]

Real-ID comes home to roost - and it's going to cost us money.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162857,00.html

Governors: Driver's License Costs to Increase
Monday, July 18, 2005

WASHINGTON — In the name of homeland security, motorists are going to see costs skyrocket for driver's licenses (search) and motor vehicle offices forced to operate like local branches of the FBI, the nation's governors warn.

The new federal law squeezed this spring into an $82 billion spending bill had Republican and Democrat governors fuming at their summer conference, with several bringing their complaints to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff (search) at a Monday meeting.

"It's outrageous to pass this off on the states," said Republican Mike Huckabee of Arkansas, incoming chairman of the National Governors Association. "You're essentially asking the front-line clerks at the DMV to become an INS agent and a law enforcement agent."

The law that passed in June goes beyond an earlier measure that sought to standardize state driver's licenses, requiring that states verify license applicants are American citizens or legal residents.

"This is going to drive the cost of driver's licenses for ordinary folks through the roof," said Democrat Tom Vilsack of Iowa. "I think it's going to drive people crazy."

Chertoff assured governors his agency will work with them to design a driver's license system that is efficient for consumers and more secure. He said it is an opportunity to strengthen safeguards against identity theft as well as terrorism.

"We want to work with the states," Chertoff said. The law gives states until 2008 to make the necessary changes.

It would demand skills of motor vehicle office clerks far beyond what is currently expected, governors said.

Gov. Bill Richardson, a Democrat from New Mexico, said the law — known as the REAL ID Act (search) — unconstitutionally infringed on state laws in several places, including his own state where illegal immigrants have been able to get licenses.

New Mexico's approach has made roads safer, since licensed immigrants can get insured, he said, adding that it also helps the state keep track of immigrants and integrate them into the community.

"It's a shortsighted, ill-conceived initiative," Richardson said. "We'll challenge it constitutionally."

On Sunday, governors said they'd agreed on a months long bipartisan proposal to improve the federal-state Medicaid program. They said it should help slow the program's soaring costs, and let states experiment with more effective ways to deliver health care.

If accepted in Washington, the governors' plan would allow states to demand co-payments from poor, disabled and women with children, and add tools to curb seniors from giving relatives their assets so they could get Medicaid-funded long-term care.

Sen. Charles Grassley, the Iowa Republican who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, said the governors' work was crucial to winning agreement in Congress on any Medicaid changes. President Bush wants to trim the growth in the program by $10 billion over five years.

The governors proposal "is really key to getting something done. We will not get a bipartisan agreement in Congress without a bipartisan agreement from the governors," Grassley said after meeting privately with governors.

Governors also took aim at a piece of Bush's new Medicare drug prescription policy, with more than a dozen weighing a legal fight to challenge part of the new law.

Their concerns centered on a relatively small portion of the policy that would affect the elderly who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid and old enough to qualify for Medicare.

Governors have long argued that the federal government should pay the costs of that group, which are significantly higher per person than for the rest of the Medicaid population.

The new Medicare law means the federal government nominally takes over responsibility for that group, but requires states to continue to pay the overwhelming majority of the bill for their drugs by sending cash to Washington. Many governors said the complex and cumbersome federal formula means they would pay more money than before.

Texas and New Hampshire have put aside the money they would send to the federal government to cover those drug benefits until the dispute is resolved. Republican Rick Perry of Texas wrote a letter to fellow governors arguing they should work together to change the federal policy.

[BryanP]

It doesn't matter if they pass it on to the states or "pay for it" from the Federal level. We still end up paying for it.

[MarkDido]

Gov. Bill Richardson, a Democrat from New Mexico, said the law — known as the REAL ID Act (search) — unconstitutionally infringed on state laws in several places, including his own state where illegal immigrants have been able to get licenses.

New Mexico's approach has made roads safer, since licensed immigrants can get insured, he said, adding that it also helps the state keep track of immigrants and integrate them into the community.

"It's a shortsighted, ill-conceived initiative," Richardson said. "We'll challenge it constitutionally."

I'm not even going to comment on the stupidity of Gov. Richardson's policy and statement

[dpesec]

that the DMV has trouble determing who's a citizen. This new process will be hard on them. Yet, none of them has a problem registering people to vote. I wonder how for 1 function it's easy for the other it's hard?
Am I confused here? :evil:

[Derek Zeanah]

I'm not even going to comment on the stupidity of Gov. Richardson's policy and statementYeah, because, like, since insurance companies require a driver's license to get insurance, like, we, like wouldn't want illegals to get insurance if they're gonna be driving on the roads, now, would we?

[iiibdsiil]

Ever sat in line at the passport agency? :banghead: Gonna be that, all over again. Have long waits for idiots that don't bring the right information, and then you will walk right up and it will take no longer than 2 minutes.

[Lone_Gunman]

Aside from the fact that he is a Democrat, I am not sure why people are finding fault with what Richardson said.

He has illegal aliens in his state. The federal government is supposed to throw them out (since they are breaking federal law), but does not. Thats the federal governments problem. Encouraging them to have insurance would seem to make sense to me.

[Biker]

Derek
By definition, illegals aren't supposed to be here and as a consequence of their status aren't eligible for a DL *or the right to vote which makes the insurance angle irrelevant. Yes?
Biker

[odysseus]

:barf:

[Derek Zeanah]

By definition, illegals aren't supposed to be here and as a consequence of their status aren't eligible for a DL *or the right to vote which makes the insurance angle irrelevant. Yes?I think you can call the "insurance angle irrelevant" up until the point where you get into an accident with an uninsured driver. At that point it becomes reallyrelevant, especially if you weren't in an automobile at the time.

Do you really think it's possible to live in most of the US without a car? Do you really believe that illegals that are already here are not driving? If so, I want them to have insurance.

Call me selfish...

[Jim Diver]

We honor drivers from other countries when they have licenses in their own country and thier insurance covers them... so the insurance argument is bunk.

IDs only make them harder to ID as illegals... nothing more.

[Standing Wolf]

The governors want the federal government to hand them more free money. They're whining and snivelling and crying in the hope that if they make enough noise, they'll get some free money.

They should shut up and get back to work.

[Biker]

The point is Derek, if they're here illegaly, the DL and insurance issues are moot. The key word is ILLEGAL. If the DLB and insurance companies can gather enough info on them to qualify them for said services, they should, with rare exceptions, have enough info to determine that they are here illegaly. As such, they should be booted the hell out. Quick, fast and in a hurry. Meanwhile, aiding and abetting an illegal alien usually constitutes a federal law. Fair enough?

Biker

[railroader]

I live in southern california where there are tons of illegals. Just because someone has a drivers license what makes people think they will have insurance too. Supposedly they have all have the crappy low paying jobs so how are they going to pay for the insurance. Even if it is manditory to have insurance to get a license they can pay for a month and cancel it. I personally think that you should be legally here for a drivers license or ID card and you need that for any kind of services. Enough is enough. Next they need crack down on the employers, no legal residency, no work period and enforce it with penalties that will get there attention. Mark

[Pilgrim]

New Mexico's approach has made roads safer, since licensed immigrants can get insured, he said, adding that it also helps the state keep track of immigrants and integrate them into the community.

"It's a shortsighted, ill-conceived initiative," Richardson said. "We'll challenge it constitutionally."

I am trying to understand how having insurance makes a driver safer.

I am also trying to understand New Mexico's 'tracking' program. Who else is tracked by this program?

Pilgrim

[Lone_Gunman]

Can the Governor of a state force the federal government to police the border and stop illegal aliens from coming in?

Does a state have the power to police a national border?

If Richardson can't do anything to stop illegal aliens from coming, why is it wrong for him to want them to have insurance?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

This ain't about illegal immigration, folks. "Real ID" is offensive. Obscene. Reprehensible. Evil.

I am NOT an item of chattel to be inventoried by the Fed. I will not be serial numbered, barcoded, RFID'd or otherwise tagged in a "machine readable format".



When I first heard that states were resisting Real ID I thought that perhaps they were going to stand up for our rights and theirs. I was wrong. They're plenty eager to sell us out, they just want a bigger payoff.

I guess the traditional 30 pieces of silver isn't enough anymore.

[Glock Glockler]

Derek,

Do you really think they're going to get insurance? It doesnt take long to figure out that they'd be better off getting out of that situation by giving bogus info as opposed to giving real insurance info and then paying.

The proper thing to do is deport them, not reward them for breaking our laws by allowing them to drive on our roads and making it easy for them to vote in elections.

[Derek Zeanah]

Do you really think they're going to get insurance? It doesnt take long to figure out that they'd be better off getting out of that situation by giving bogus info as opposed to giving real insurance info and then paying.Yeah, I do.

It's one thing to give insurance information that's then handled and goes away, maybe with increased rates. Remember, in lots of states (CA according to the radio this afternoon) you can't register your car without insurance. Buy, yes. Reregister, no.

So, to have no insurance means you're buying a new car every year, or you're running around without a registration and you're at risk to be pulled over for that, plus the risk of a "hit and run" if you get into an accident.

Really, I think your average illegal driving a hooptie would rather pay the $700/year for the minimum level of coverage and keep a low profile.

This ain't about illegal immigration, folks. "Real ID" is offensive. Obscene. Reprehensible. Evil.This is very true. I don't know that I want to drag 4 kinds of ID down to ID myself, personally. To be honest, I haven't decided whether I'll submit to that once we get to that point.

It's a question that requires a lot of thought before I answer...

[Ripped-Abs]

Big deal. License fees are cheap, and this will make us safer. Last thing I want to worry about is some Muslim terorrist smashing his car into some important building.

[Sindawe]

License fees are cheap, and this will make us safer BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH ROTFLMAOSTC!!!! Thanks Ripped-Abs, now I need a new keyboard. This one is covered with red wine.

[Waitone]

Does it mean I can now drop my Uninsured Motorist Coverage and my Underinsured Motorist Coverage, both of which are required by my state law? Insurance is a bogus argument.

States do not want to get into the document inspection bidness because it will 1>be effective and thereby cause an economic impact to those who rely on illegal immigrants, and 2>it will put into stark relief the fraud known as Motor Voter.

[Ukraine Train]

Big deal. License fees are cheap, and this will make us safer. Last thing I want to worry about is some Muslim terorrist smashing his car into some important building.
If terrorists can already forge passports and other documents what makes you think they can't forge REAL ID's? Or, get this, enter the country illegaly without even forged ID's.

[Nick1911]

Wow.

Yeah, because, like, since insurance companies require a driver's license to get insurance, like, we, like wouldn't want illegals to get insurance if they're gonna be driving on the roads, now, would we?

If they are here illegally anyway, this is a moot point. Criminals don't follow laws - by definition.

I think you can call the "insurance angle irrelevant" up until the point where you get into an accident with an uninsured driver. At that point it becomes reallyrelevant, especially if you weren't in an automobile at the time.

This reminds me of an anti-gun argument. They are here illegally anyway!

I am NOT an item of chattel to be inventoried by the Fed. I will not be serial numbered, barcoded, RFID'd or otherwise tagged in a "machine readable format".

Too late, we pretty much are. Drivers license number, SSN, firearm serial #'s, your car's VIN, your license plate... We all have serial numbers attached to us and most things we do.

Big deal. License fees are cheap, and this will make us safer. Last thing I want to worry about is some Muslim terorrist smashing his car into some important building.

HA! Course cars are SO hard to steal. After all driving though a building is MUCH more destructive after you've properly registered and insured your car. Wonder if comprehensive would cover that? :)

If terrorists can already forge passports and other documents what makes you think they can't forge REAL ID's? Or, get this, enter the country illegaly without even forged ID's.

Hmm… Supply and demand anyone? http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ncleone/phpimage/hitdb/gen.php?cheese=thrImmigrint

[Baba Louie]

Let's see...
The illegal im's and the criminal ilk will continue to be illegal and do criminal stuff and now they'll even have something additional (State sponsored RealID) to steal.
Terrorists will always be able to either work within the system with false ID or even real ID.
Law-abiding tax-paying citizens will fund YET ANOTHER feel good GOV'T INSPIRED program which will allow even more intrusive inspection by governing agencies into their tax paying lives... while criminal, illegal im's and terrorist activities continue basically unchecked...

Is that about right? :scrutiny:

So another form of black market PROLE economy will surface and we'll have a huge US v. THEM game of life. Black market medicine, food, transport, housing, etc. for those without THEIR PAPERS (RealID).

Life oughta be even more interesting in the next century, doncha think?

[RealGun]

Perhaps the Governors are saying that the Real ID Act is an unfunded mandate when linked to funds intended for other purposes. They are asking for funding specific to implementation of the Real ID Act or setting up that discussion. The starting position is to be overly dramatic about the costs or inconveniences.

[Kim]

HAHAHAHAHAH> If I remember right the ONE time Bill Clinton lost his governor seat was when he raised license fees on autos. He did not do that again. Pissed everyone off. :D

[hvengel]

California already requires that you have to prove that you are here legaly. You need a Social Security card and either a US birth certificate or a green card. This has been in place since the late 1980s and was only not the law for a short period before and after the recall election. Driver license and non-driver ID cards have fees that are low double digits (>$20) and the license is good for 3 to 5 years (depends on driving record). So how much does the extra effort to verify legal status add to the cost of driver license fees in California?

Of course there are other requirements beyond checking for legal presence in the real ID law but if Calif can do this checking and have fees this low I don't think cost is the real issue. Instead I think what is going on is the these governors want the feds to give them more money.

[Glock Glockler]

So, to have no insurance means you're buying a new car every year, or you're running around without a registration and you're at risk to be pulled over for that, plus the risk of a "hit and run" if you get into an accident

What is to stop one person from registering 10 cars, paying the fees, and then "lending" them to his friends?

[thorn726]

since licensed immigrants can get insured

at least they finally explain the logic. i concur, they would be more likely to get insurance. you get pulled over with no insurance in most states, the car is GONE. besides towed, REGIStration can be suspended, car is useless. insurance is not that expensive.

OF COURSE some illegals will still do the other stuff mentioned and drive illegaly


What is to stop one person from registering 10 cars, paying the fees, and then "lending" them to his friends?

doh! the first one that gets pulled over ruins it for all ten., it aint happenin.

ultimately id agree it's all about money, local cops want to avoid enforcing ins rules.

the REAL ID- this thing is just too scary to think about.
hopefully it will be so outragously expensive it will cause massive protest and be withdrawn

[Sleeping Dog]

Ever sat in line at the passport agency?

Dum question - what's a passport agency? I applied for mine at a post office. No line, but a few forms, and a very nice photo :)

It would demand skills of motor vehicle office clerks far beyond what is currently expected, governors said.

That's raising the bar to the point where someone might stub their toe on it.

In general, this is a bad rule. If we can't issue DL's to the illegals, how can we expect them to vote for our favorite Democrats?

Regards.

[dpesec]

A governor most likely can't do squat about the boarder. But once they are past the boarder it's the state's problem. They can lock the illegals up and turn them over to the Feds. That will never happen, why because it's politically incorrect. All many, if not most of the politicians care about is getting reelected. Deporting somebody's cousin won't secure the family's vote.

The whole issue centers on votes, just another way to buy votes. :cuss: :banghead:

[RealGun]

The whole issue centers on votes, just another way to buy votes. - dpesec

Is that the tyranny of the majority in action or elected officials complying with what the campaign money sources want? Seems to me that the voters need to make it an informed issue and show up on election day.

[Kurush]

The point about giving DMV employees more responsibility is valid I think. In my experience it seems like DMV is pretty much where the state government sends employees who are so stupid they can't work anywhere else. I once sat in a DMV office for half an hour because some guy had left his old (expired, holepunched) drivers license on their desk rather than thrown it away, and the two ladies who worked there couldn't figure out which code applied to this situation and therefore which number to call to ask someone for guidance on what to do with it.

So how are a pair of retards like these two going to figure out how to do all the procedures Real ID requires? Don't say they should hire new people either, this is Pennsylvania and I guarantee you they are union members and their contract says can't be fired unless they kill at least 5 people.

[Waitone]

I would think DMV is the perfect place to implement a bureaucratic procedure which is cut and dried.

--List out what constitutes acceptable documentation

--DMV check off a sheet of paper saying person has produced acceptable and previously defined documentation.

--Person move to next step.

If person fails provide acceptable documentation--back out the door.

[jnojr]

Do you really think it's possible to live in most of the US without a car? Do you really believe that illegals that are already here are not driving? If so, I want them to have insurance.

Lots of citizens don't bother with insurance. It's a strawman to claim that leting illegals have licenses will encourage them to get insurance... insurance is simply an unnecessary expense for them. Get in an accident? No problem... walk away. Use another variation of your name and start over somewhere else.

I would be all for illegals being able to get licenses if it weren't for the pesky little fact that a drivers license is the de facto standard for identification. It's a huge problem that Achmed the terrorist can walk across the border, pretend to be Pedro the gardener, and get ID that allows him on planes, trains, truck rentals, etc.

[dpesec]

Voters think before they vote. Interesting idea. I don't think that will happen, because voters today are are always looking for something from OPM.

[RealGun]

Voters think before they vote. Interesting idea. I don't think that will happen, because voters today are are always looking for something from OPM. - dpesec

So voters have been corrupted. Their votes have been bought. They are all the same. :uhoh:

[TheEgg]

Yeah, I do.

Sorry you are wrong on this one.

Texas has numerous places to buy a one month policy. Rate is about $69. Get your insurance card, then register your car, get your safety inspection and you are good to go for a year. Next time around get another $69 card. For 11 month out of the year they have no insurance.

If they get nicked with no insurance, not much happens to them around here. Even if they get the car towed (doesn't happen much) it is probably a $500 beater. Just walk away and get another one. Or if the car is a good one, go down, get your $69 card and get your car out of hock. Happens all the time.

[RealGun]

For 11 month out of the year they have no insurance.

Do you know if DMV is notified when an insurance policy expires? Should they be, since the license is conditional, requiring insurance?

[JohnBT]

I just sent VA DMV a check to get the new stickers for my license plates. I checked the box on the form that promises that I have insurance - that was easy. Of course signing it is a crime if you don't have insurance, but there are thousands of city residents who don't - and they're just the ones I know. :)

My driver's license is up for renewal next month and I need to have an eye exam. The notice they sent says "You will need to provide proof of U.S. citizenship or Legal Presence for these transactions:

All ID cards
First-time driver's licenses
Expired licenses
Suspended, revoked or cancelled licenses."

John

[TheEgg]

Do you know if DMV is notified when an insurance policy expires? Should they be, since the license is conditional, requiring insurance?

Pretty sure there is no regular reporting of insurance status. Police can ask and the insurance company will confirm, but nothing proactive, I think.