CO2 Pistol for self-defence?


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SIGfiend
July 19, 2005, 03:34 AM
Does this seem to silly to be effective?

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hso
July 19, 2005, 08:00 AM
Suicidally bad idea unless your only threat is rodents.

OTOH, there are 30 cal air guns in use for hunting in Europe that are available in the U.S. that are lethal.

ecos
July 19, 2005, 08:14 AM
ive seen them up to 50cal. yes your could kill a person with one, but from what ive read they are still classified as firearms as far as carrying them goes, so you might as well carry a regular firearm. also most the high powered airguns ive seen are single shot. the high calibre/power airguns cost as much as a regular sidearm, if not more and they can "leak down" slowly reducing power due to escaped gas. stick with gunpowder ;)

Soap
July 19, 2005, 08:30 AM
You're trying to stop the threat, not kill it. And the CO2 may be able to kill it but I'm betting that it won't stop it.

SIGfiend
July 19, 2005, 05:17 PM
Well strangely enough most CO2 pistols are considered firearms as laws and penalties are considered in Europe.

thorn726
July 20, 2005, 10:25 PM
considering CA has pretty lenient laws on them..........

i mean unless you can get em in the eye, its only gonna make someone angry

fjolnirsson
July 20, 2005, 10:31 PM
considering CA has pretty lenient laws on them..........

Better check your penal code. IIRC, in 2003, they were reclassified as firearms. I'll see if I can dig up the section for you.



It appears they correected the problem, either in later legislation, or before final approval of the change. I remember the discussion in my academy class, regarding the wording of this section:
12001. (a)(1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length.

The portion in bold used to say something along the lines of"any chemical reaction or force"

the laws in CA change seemingly overnight!

Third_Rail
July 20, 2005, 11:53 PM
CO2 isn't combustion.

fjolnirsson
July 21, 2005, 12:39 AM
CO2 isn't combustion.

Precisely. Hence the latter portion of my post.
The portion in bold used to say something along the lines of"any chemical reaction or force"

Third_Rail
July 21, 2005, 12:49 AM
Okay, I understand now. I must've missed that part! :o

Texian Pistolero
July 21, 2005, 11:07 AM
In street terms, you are using a gun. The alleged perp may not know it's a CO2, he does know it is a gun.

You have just authorized a maximum violent response by him. Have a nice day.

Vitamin G
July 21, 2005, 11:48 AM
If i take the time to stuff something uncomfortable (guns are comforting, not comfortable) in my pants, or stick it under my arm, or put it next to my manliness, it better serve a purpose other than getting myself hurt.

This would only work for the "I could never shoot someone" crowd, because with them, it doesn't really matter if they have a desert eagle or a super soaker, they aren't going to be willing to use force.

Taurus 66
July 22, 2005, 12:57 AM
ive seen them up to 50cal. yes your could kill a person with one, but from what ive read they are still classified as firearms as far as carrying them goes

I'm not wanting an argument with you ecos, but I'd sure love to have one with whoever thinks any airgun is a firearm. A "firearm" in the literal sense is something which must be capable of producing "fire".

ecos
July 22, 2005, 01:45 AM
i meant in a legal sense not literal. in many jurisdictions an airgun falls in the same guidelines as a firearm(as fjolnirsson has shown us). thats why i said "they are still classified as firearms as far as carrying them goes " but for everyday usage when someone mentions firearms i dont think airguns.

legally they get away with it by this line (using fjolnirssons example) "shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion" they would have been better off to leave out "other" for their purposes

now if you look up the term "firearm" in the dictionary you get "A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant."

aha but what is an explosion? so we look up explosion "Relating to or having the nature of an explosion.
Tending to explode."
"adj 1: tending or serving to explode or characterized by explosion or sudden outburst; "an explosive device"; "explosive gas"; "explosive force"; "explosive violence"; "an explosive temper" [ant: nonexplosive] 2: liable to lead to sudden change or violence; "an explosive issue"; "a volatile situation with troops and rioters eager for a confrontation" [syn: volatile] 3: sudden and loud; "an explosive laugh" n : a chemical substance that undergoes a rapid chemical change (with the production of gas) on being heated or struck"

notice an explosion is not classified only as a chemical reaction(gunpowder) and a firearm is simply a tool that expels a projectile by explosive means.

so for many people in a legal and literal sense an airgun is classified as a firearm. again as for myself when people talk firearms i dont think bb guns. dictionary examples from dictionary.com

dasmi
July 22, 2005, 02:03 AM
I suppose if you really want to piss your attacker off, you could use a C02 pistol.

fjolnirsson
July 22, 2005, 02:13 AM
I know one thing. If someone were to shoot me with a CO2 pistol, and it didn't make me DRT, I'd put that pistol someplace very uncomfortable for them..... :D

Taurus 66
July 22, 2005, 04:05 AM
now if you look up the term "firearm" in the dictionary you get "A weapon, especially a pistol or rifle, capable of firing a projectile and using an explosive charge as a propellant."

What does any dictionary say (verbatim) for a pellet gun or CO2 powered gun? If the word "fire" or "fired" is anywhere along any definition, toss out that dictionary and look for another with some sense. You "fire" a firearm, beit a pistol, rifle, shotgun ... but you "shoot" an airgun, CO2 thingamajig kidthingy.

Overall now, any caliber airgun or CO2 thingamajig kidthingy will hurt somewhat, and if you score a really lucky shot, you can possibly kill someone, but don't bet on it just because the overinflated government warning is on the outside of the box saying, "Misuse could result in serious injury or death". If the government had their way with warning labels, my box of Wheaties and Quaker Oats would be next to nuclear waste.

Serious though, what's a projectile with a .177 diameter going to do against anyone who's amped for an all out attack upon you? ... and I don't care what velocity you put behind this pea ... it's still .177 cal. Your ONLY chance is to spray such an attacker in full auto mode.

ecos
July 22, 2005, 05:04 AM
i agree a .177 pellet isnt going to do much unless you are lucky...but what about .22? .30? .50? 2.0" etc...airguns can(and have) been made in many sizes and have killed many large beasts. elk, deer, humans, buffalo, etc have all been killed with airguns. the french and austrians used to equip snipers with airguns that they killed the enemy with. there have been ships equipped with air cannons that shot slugs with a diameter of several inches, they would rip right through the side of an enemies ship. i was a bit suprised when i discovered that they have been in use for hundreds of years as weapons when reading a history of lewis and clark expedition and it mentioned they carried an airgun...i was like "huh??" and i had to do some research on the subject...i was intrigued.

today most people consider airguns as toys due to all the watered down models you find at walmart. can airguns be made lethal? most assuredly. are they efficient for self defense in todays society? nope! thats why i said stick to gunpowder.

Soap
July 22, 2005, 08:32 AM
ecos- We're talking about a CO2 pistol, I can't think of any CO2 pistol that could reliably take down anything over 30 lbs.

ecos
July 22, 2005, 08:52 AM
oops, your right daniel...lost track of the plot there...i started thinking airguns in general not c02. havent come across any high powered c02, all pump guns.

my apologies

shermacman
July 22, 2005, 08:59 AM
I have a CO2 pistol that looks identical to a S&W revolver. It will not reliably kill squirrels. My Crosman air rifle will, the pistol will not. I can't imagine using the pistol for anything other than assaulting Coke cans.

foghornl
July 22, 2005, 09:59 AM
If you are speaking of the .177/.22 BB/pellet guns, yeah good against the thundering horde of small rodents, soda cans, paper.

Against the 2-legged predator....NOT recommended.

bad LT
July 22, 2005, 10:13 PM
If you are going to rely on it for self-defense, get the biggest, heaviest, steel air pistol you can find. Then at least have a heavy thing you can throw at an assailant - more effective than shooting him.

Soap
July 22, 2005, 10:44 PM
ecos- I agree with the intrigue part though...especially after hearing about Lewis & Clark's airgun and the 9mm Chinese rifles that are out there. But that's another thread entirely... :p

gvass
July 28, 2005, 10:07 AM
"strangely enough most CO2 pistols are considered firearms as laws and penalties are considered in Europe"

Exactly the OPPOSITE is the truth! :fire:

Nick1911
July 28, 2005, 11:42 AM
Exactly the OPPOSITE is the truth! :fire:

I'm interested... could you elaborate on this a bit?

KriegHund
July 28, 2005, 11:58 AM
I believe they use airguns in match comep[titions.

And a high quality CO2 pistol will distract an opponent so you can get away/use more lethal force. Assuming you aim for the face.

If its all you have, then use it, and a machete. A Magnum .17 pellet will bury itself into hardwood with some nasty force. Enough to hurt damned well or blind but not much else.

logical
July 28, 2005, 12:06 PM
It's probably better than a water pistol.

KriegHund
July 28, 2005, 12:08 PM
Could get a supersoaker and some flammable liquid...

Omni04
July 28, 2005, 12:15 PM
depending on the liquid it may eat the super soaker. I saw pans online of this guy making flamethrowers with PVC, kinda cool.

sorry not trying to get off topic guys! Ignore me! :D

RyanM
July 31, 2005, 12:51 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=123826&highlight=airgun

Worked well enough for that guy.

gvass
August 1, 2005, 11:02 AM
"Exactly the OPPOSITE is the truth!



I'm interested... could you elaborate on this a bit?"


In most of the European states you can buy air rifles and pistols* without any licence, and REAL firearms (especially handguns) almost always require licence to own.

(*in certain countries muzzle energy limitations apply)

GregGry
August 3, 2005, 02:14 AM
To give you an idea, my handgun air pistol will not penetrate a meduim thickness polo shirt at 2 inches away, every time I pull the trigger. At 10 feet it wont even think of going in, and thats at approx 430fps. :D

XLMiguel
August 3, 2005, 12:15 PM
Bad idea.

Morlock
August 7, 2005, 02:56 AM
qoute:

I know one thing. If someone were to shoot me with a CO2 pistol, and it didn't make me DRT, I'd put that pistol someplace very uncomfortable for them.....

where, in the back of a volkswagen??? :neener: :neener: :neener:

hifi
August 7, 2005, 04:58 AM
A .25 Auto looks like a .500 S&W next to a CO2 pellet pistol if you compare them powerwise.

SIGfiend
August 7, 2005, 05:51 PM
Mike VA, did you read this story?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...ighlight=airgun

Still a bad idea?

Texian Pistolero
August 7, 2005, 08:02 PM
II think that the legal weirdness,

Has somehow,

Taken priority over the reality based weirdness.

That is a sure path to getting DRT.

And forcing Mutual of Omaha’s,

“Wild Kingdom”,

To actually cut a policy payoff check.

chopinbloc
August 7, 2005, 11:53 PM
if one had no other means of self defense, i can see how one of these (http://www.eaacorp.com/airguns-drozd-description.html) could discourage an attacker if you gave them a few bursts to the face. also, while i'm sure it wasn't what was meant by "co2 pistol" there are paintball markers of large pistol size that take 12 gram co2 cartridges. if you loaded it with the capsicum ammo that some police departments use they might be relatively effective as well, though i'm not sure about the legal availability of those rounds.

kc2ixk
August 17, 2005, 01:18 PM
Just ran across these posts. I'm trying to do my research on the subj. Heres my story though. Im a 16yr old young man, and when i go out with a friend of mine we usually end up walking around in the city. So being smart I try to arm myself. I always carry 2 knifes(ones a little folder that I use daily the other is a tactical folder that I clip inside of my pants), my minimag(restraining device and fistload), and sumtimes a carabiner(can be used as brassknuckles and restraining device((kinda heavy though))). Well incase you havent noticed all those things are hand to hand. I prefer to stay away from my attacker. and what if hes throwing sumthing at me from a distance? So being that its legal for me to own a CO2 pistol thats what I carry and I will use it, even against sumone with a "real" gun because they would be more likely to take cover if Im actually shoot sumthing at them(needless to say I would run really really fast like). Plz email me at kc2ixk@yahoo.com if you have any stories or advice that would discourage or encourage me from carrying a CO2 pistol.

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