[silverlance]

I bought 1k of wolf 9mm. took to range where I am a member. was told that I can't shoot it anymore because they have decided to sell reloads so they can continue making range time free for members.
(they don't want to bother sorting out which cases are steel and which cases are brass when they sweep up at night)

so.

should I invest in reloading equipment? I shoot a sig p228, planning on getting a makarov as well - so 9x19 and 9x18.

but would I actually save anything?

right now they sell 9mm ammo here for about $10 a box of fifty.

somebody give me a hand please.

[taliv]

ammoman.com's pricing is around $115/1000 for wolf, and $139/1000 for blazer and $159/1000 for 2003 NATO US issue ammo.

you can get 115g FMJ for $40/1000. Figure primers and powder is another .02 per shot. You can get 2000 fired brass cases on ebay for $20.

That looks like roughly $60-70/1000 to me if you don't reuse your brass.

the real question is... will you shoot enough to justify the initial investment in a press and all the tools? and do you have the time?


edit: note that i am not advocating being a cheapskate or depriving the range owners of a decent living. God knows, it's hard enough to operate a range in CA. obviously, you're patronizing them since you're a member. that's good.

[Rockstar]

I would give up shooting, if I had to shoot Wolf ammo. You can get brass case 9mm ammo for a lot cheaper than $10 for 50; actually about half that price.

I reload jacketed 9mm for about $.08 per round; others do it cheaper.

[Ala Dan]

WOLFF AMMO NEVER GOES IN MY WEAPONS, PERIOD!

A very strong statement, but its a fact of life~ :D As I would never
use that junk in any of my firearms.

As far as saving's go, even investing in a handloading set-up won't
cure your wallet virus. :( The initial cost of the equipment takes
time to recoup, and you will always be adding accessories. :)
The one positive thing out of all this is the fact that it allows you
to see your very own handloads sailing right thru the X-ring! :uhoh: :D

[GunAdmirer]

I, too, reload 9mm for around .08 per round if I don't have to buy brass. I don't save much money but can customize loads for different purposes. I have a light but accurate load for competition and a hotter factory equivalent load for general use. It is a fun hobby if you are a careful person. The equipment will pay for itself the more you use it. If you are a casual shooter, you are probably better off buying ammo in bulk every so often. There are good deals that come up from time to time.

[PinnedAndRecessed]

If 9mm was the only caliber I shot, I wouldn't fool with reloading. By the time you figure initial outlay for equipment, powder, etc., not to mention your time, you're better off buying the stuff.

Now me, I load for 44 mag, 357, 45 auto and 9mm. I like to load the magnums down to mid-range level cause neither I nor my guns wear out as fast. The 45s and 9s are about average.

[444]

This thread will almost certainly turn into a Wolf ammo bashing thread, even though that isn't what you asked. That's a shame and one of the downfalls of this board. Sorry.
If the only cartridge you plan on handloading is 9mm, then I wouldn't bother unless you really shoot a lot. A lot would be something in excess of 500 rounds/month.
I would probably go to Wal-Mart and buy my 9mm there. I am an avid handloader. I have thousands of dollars worth of gear and components right now: I don't have to buy them. I don't load much 9mm. I just go to Wal-Mart.

[Matthew748]

I plan to begin reloading 9mm (and .40 S&W) in the near future for a couple of reasons. The biggest reason is I cannot mail order ammo where I live so all the great deals from online vendors are useless to me. The nearest brick and mortar store that sells cheap pistol ammo is a 40 minute drive one way. The second reason is because I want a progressive press, and the inability to get cheap, hassle-free ammo is the perfect excuse!

[Wedge]

I got into reloading to save money initially, because I shoot .45 Colt and that is an expensive caliber if you want anything that performs halfway decent. But I ended up buying more expensive components (bullets) because they gave me the effect I wanted (255gr oregon trail lasercast SWC - more expensive than say the local guys 250gr RNFP).

In the end I wound up reloading for the increased performance. When I was shooting factory ammo I was sure that my gun was defective...started rolling my own and the bullets went where I wanted them to go.

It takes a lot of time to get the money back out of reloading especially if you have a high equipment outlay, but it takes almost no time to start seeing an increase in accuracy.

[Souris]

I started reloading after I got into Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) the downloaded .357 Mags were EXPENSIVE ($17 /25 at my local place). Then a friend got into CAS and I started reloading her .38 SPL. I reload.44 Mag, .45 ACP, .30-06 and .45-70 as well.

However while loading CAS rounds I have discovered that I really like the ability to tailor my rounds to what I want. I also like the results from my handloaded rifle cartridges. I also enjoy the time I spend reloading. It's relaxing.

That being said, I do not reload 9mm. I shoot 200+ rnds a month of it and the local sporting goods chain carries the aluminum blazer ammo for $84 a case out the door! Cheap and I don't have to pick up the brass (Man am I anal about picking up my .45 brass!)

[armoredman]

I started reloading 9mm - hang whatever cost/benefit there is, reloading is just plain fun! A relaxing hobby that just happenes to be productive, so if you want to make your 9mm tick to the top, grab a good single stage setup, (someone over at czforum.com is trying to sell some reloading stuff cheap), and go for it!

[WayneConrad]

(they don't want to bother sorting out which cases are steel and which cases are brass when they sweep up at night)
If you want to poke your finger in their eye, mention to them an amazing technological advance that can sort steel from brass. It's called the "magnet." :D

[mtnbkr]

$10/50 is high, but not bad considering it comes with range time. My local ranges charge $12/hour. If I bought any 9mm other than WWB, it would be more expensive than what you're effectively paying per hour (assuming 100rnds per hour).

Chris

[Jayman]

Reloading small quantities of 9mm is not a money saving endeavor. That said, I shoot 1200-1600 rounds of 9mm a month. I compete. Having a low flash low recoil accurate load that still meets specifications (power factor) is a great thing for me. I also kick these loads out more cheaply than I can get any decent factory ammo. I'll probably have my initial investment paid off within the next 6-8 months of shooting. With any luck I'll also be an IDPA Master Class shooter by then as well.

[silverlance]

I'm very impressed. And thank you all!

Well, I have pretty much decided against reloading. Why:

* I can't afford another 1k investment in guns for at least six months.
* I'd be saving about .08 a round at most.
* There's a really scary label on the powder can that says, "DANGER: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE!"

I guess I'll just go and buy from ammoman again.. sigh*

Besides, if I leave my brass I'll feel like I'm giving something back to the range. That, and I noticed that the last baggie of reloads (done by the range) I shot sometimes failed to lock the slide back on my 228 after the last round was fired.

as for the magnet... i think it's just an excuse, they want me to buy ammo or leave brass.

---

and as for wolfies - they're not that bad, guys. i had an extractor crack on my ar15 after 4k wolfie but that was easy to replace... don't know how to replace extractor on sig though now that i think about it. but wolfies shoot straight and always cycle extremely well.

eh, well.
now i have 1k of hp .223 wolfie (ar got stolen) and 1k of 9mm wolfie (range banned) sitting around looking pretty.

i should buy a cheap used crappy .223 and a cheap crappy used 9mm for times like these...

[mtnbkr]

* There's a really scary label on the powder can that says, "DANGER: EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE!"

There are plenty other things in the average house more flammable than a closed can of powder. Think about it, powder doesn't create flammable fumes than can ignite. Gasoline, paint thinner, etc do, but we don't worry about them...

Chris

[armoredman]

Powder is safer than that can of hairspray under the sink....

[Navy joe]

I could get cheaper, but I don't like the smoke and mess of cast bullets. Using Plated my cost is $55-65/1000. The cheapest consistent deal is WWB for $11/100. So, I save $50/1000. When I was loading I made and used 19,000+ 9mm in a 1.5 years. So, I saved nearly $1,000 by loading 9mm. Many people factor in time. The nature of my job is such that I cannot have a second job. Therefore I have time, but no potential to make more money, so making my salary go farther is a good thing. 1000 rounds takes about 2 hours, so at the worst it keeps me from watching TV.

[GarrettJ]

At a recent competition, I watched one shooter put nearly two magazines of ammo into a steel target, trying to knock it over. She was shooting some light 115 gr. 9mm. I believe it was the Winchester Walmart 100 rd box stuff. That's great blasting ammo, but it's closer to .380 than to NATO 9mm. It wasn't heavy/hot enough to take the steel target over.

I reload because I can tailor my loads to what I'm doing. That day, anticipating heavy steel, I loaded 147 gr. 9mms and had no problems with the steel.

[silverlance]

really? hairspray is worse?

damn that hairspray! I've got a bomb in my house! AHHHHHH!

*runs out the door screaming

maybe i should put powder on my head instead..

seriously, i just spent $300 on ammo today:

1k blazer
250 federal l33 00 buck for my m1
1 box of fed silicone nose exapander.
(this stuff btw shoots real nice in my sig, hardly any more recoil, and its the only "expanding" round that they'll let me shoot at the indoor range since it all sticks together... i hope...)

I wish i live don a farm and could shoot all day in my backyard....

then id be making ammo everyday.

[trickyasafox]

9mm might not save you tons, but some nice 30-06 reloads for your m1 could :o

[Dave R]

My current cost for 9mm reloads is $3.61/50, compared to cheap comercial ammo at about $5 per 50. The key is to reduce the cost of the bullets. I'm using Laser-Cast bullets. There are cheaper lead bullets, but these are good quality, don't lead my bore, and shoot very accurately.

If you factor in my time, it probably doesn't make sense. But it lets me trade time for cash, and the ammo I make shoots significantly better, so I feel comfortable with the economics.

[Carlos]

9mm is just too cheap to buy to load. Same as 762x39. Some People say Wolf sucks, I say Bah!!! I'll run Wolf in any "Commie" gun I own.

[HankB]

(they don't want to bother sorting out which cases are steel and which cases are brass when they sweep up at night)Yeah, running a magnet over the box would be SO hard . . . :rolleyes:

Winchester white box goes for $4.86/50 at the local Academy Sporting Goods. With tax, that's about 10.5 cents a round. Blazer is a buck a box less, or just under 8.4 cents a round. At these prices, if your time is worth anything at all, it doesn't pay to reload.

[GunAdmirer]

I reload for 9mm because ...

1. I enjoy reloading. The time investment doesn't matter if you enjoy it. Once you set up your equipment you can crank out a bunch of quality rounds in little time.

2. I like the ability to tailor my loads to different purposes - target, plinking, competition, etc. I have a great accurate light load that is good for teaching new shooters and IDPA type competition.

3. Quality - my reloads use quality powder, primers and bullets. They look and function great. My reloads look better than some new factory rounds.

4. I have an endless supply of free once-fired 9mm cases from those of you who don't reload 9mm!

You can save a bunch if you shoot alot of .45, .357 and other more costly calibers (50% or more). If you are setup to reload for more expensive calibers it doesn't cost much to setup for 9mm.

[armoredman]

GunAdmirer +1

Quick question - does/did this range also prohibit Blazer aluminum case????

[silverlance]

um..yeah, probably.

sigh*

the box says brass.. it damn well better be brass...

[Deavis]

If you reload enough and buy the correct equipment you can save a bundle on 9mm even factoring in your time.

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=116621&highlight=9mm+cost

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=139065&highlight=9mm+cost

[californiasushi]

cci blazers are aluminum cased
cci blazer brass are brass cased
he bought 1000 rounds for 139$ at ammoman, which is the brass variety

[wingman]

What Gunadmirer said. Reloading close to 40 years,I prefer my ammo over
commerical, made for each gun, accurate, added bonus reloading is relaxing
to me.

[mikewilczynski]

Does the range allow reloads, other than theirs to be used??? Most indoor ranges in my area do not. What I do is put my reloads in factory boxes so I can use them (flames allowed).

[silverlance]

i don't know. i think they do. but i guess buying the blazer is not a bad idea.
anyway, I will be shooting the leftover wolf in my p228 at an outdoor range. people always complain about wolf but i doubt it really does any real damage to a gun besides the ejector (and I'm told that they are really inexpensive and easy to replace).

[mrapathy2000]

do you actually save anything?

it depends on perspective.

not going to save much loading 9mm for target you can go out and buy target 9mm for $5 per box 50 or $10 per box of 100.

now if your reproducing the carry loads which sell for $10 per box of 20 or $20 per box of 50 then yes your saving quite a bit and can tailor your loads instead of getting fixed item.

[DrDremel]

I load 9mm because I shoot in a submachinegun and shoot 1-2000 paer trip to the range. I load for $65.00 per thousand. I can load a thousand in 2-3 hours going at a relaxed pace. I shoot FMJ or copper plated bullets and use range brass. I save some which means more range time.

[taliv]

I save some which means more range time.

you'll need more range time, if you're picking up 2000 pieces of brass each trip to the range!

[DrDremel]

Ha! I usually use a rake and rake up range brass when outdoors. I sort it with my son. Occasionally I get lucky and the indoor range will give me a 5 gallon bucket of 9mm brass since I let them shoot my subgun.
Handgun reloading is to shoot more. Rifle reloading is to shoot more accurately.

[armoredman]

Save money where you can, to get more range money....
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/a45fcb35.jpg

[TooTaxed]

My 9-mm reloads cost $2.26/ box of 50 using 124-gr RNL bullets, $3.17/box using 115-gr Ranier RNP bullets. I use a Lee Loadmaster progressive tool, so time required is minimal. I run batches of 500 to 1,000 rounds at a time when my stock drops below 500 for a cartridge.

[trickyasafox]

i save a bit. i load for 3.31 per box and thats without trying very hard. thats using rainier bullets and actually bought but reused cases. also i think my reloads look a lot better. i think nickle cases with cool hollowpoints that shoot well are worth my time :p

[CZ52GUY]

For me, getting into reloading was more of a "lifestyle choice". I traded two guns I never shot toward a 550B, conversion kits, and enough components to get me started. Some friends helped me out with some of their old stuff (I started with an old balance scale). Somebody even gave me their old F1 Chrony when they upgraded. I did splurge on a good size tumbler.

If you take out the initial investment, exclude time invested (because I enjoy the process), factor in once-fired brass as an average cost (sometimes I can pick up decent stuff, sometimes I don't have time) I load 9mm for about the same as White Box. But...I can load Frangible for roughly that same price (a requirement in the Winter months to shoot 9mm in our old indoor range). I can tune practice and/or competition loads for my taste. I can also experiment with some carry loads in White Box price range.

In the end, did I save money? Probably not. Will I going forward over a lifetime of shooting? It's probably a wash because I'll spend what I would have spent. I'll get to shoot more, and shoot what I want instead of what happens to be "in stock".

Reloading takes equipment, space, and time. I argued with my buddies for months about not wanting to bother. They kept badgering me because I think they realized before I did how much I would enjoy it. They were right :D. There isn't a gun on the planet I would trade my reloading gear for. I wouldn't go back.

However, reloading isn't for everyone. 9mm in particular is difficult to justify economically. However, once you get into reloading...if you really enjoy it...you probably won't want to buy another box of factory anything...except for maybe a reference box for a load you are wanting to cook up.

Safe loading,

CZ52'

[trickyasafox]

as i said, i reload for just over 3.30 a box, or under 7 for 100. to me, that extra 4 i'd have to spend to get WWB is totally worth it. its 50% more rounds! when talking about money, i find its better to do so in percent rather then dollars. then it becomes easier to see the savings on a large scale. for every 1000 bullets you could buy i could reload over 1500! and if thats in one of the more economically unsound cartridges to load, then its definatly worth it :what: for those who can cast their own or shoot lead and load for even less, i think your nuts not to load everything, or you actually have another hobby :p

[Magnum Mike]

I never really calculated how much money I save with reloading 9MM, but I estimate it's about .5 cents per round. It's not much, but I enjoy the hobby and the fact that I'm shooting my own custom-loaded ammo.

I do save a lot of money on handloading/reloading ammo for all of my rifles, with calibers that range from the .223 Rem. to the .300 Win. mag.