New ATF bill on importing barrels, parts. etc.


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RTFM
July 21, 2005, 01:15 PM
Ok need some help decifereing this info:

An email from Inter Ordnance sales says:

______________________________________________________________-

Dear Inter Ordnance Customer,

Yes, you read it right: As of 10 September 2005, the importation of barrels, frames and receivers of military surplus, NFA and "non-sporting" firearms will be FORBIDDEN! This means that, unless they have passed US Customs by 10 Sep 05, imported replacement barrels, frames and receivers will be for the future unavailable to the US market.

Unfortunately, BATF passed this ruling on 13 July 2005, without warning and effective immediately. This means that, unless importers (like IOA) already had approved import applications for these items on July 13th, no further applications would be approved thereafter.

For the full text of the ATF letter, please go to http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/071305openletter.htm

What does this mean to you, the Inter Ordnance customer and fireams hobbyist? In regards to the firearms affected,

1. The US supply of foreign-made replacement barrels and receivers will be frozen as of 10 Sep 05. Replacement barrels, if otherwise unavailable, will have to be made in the USA at higher cost. Available replacement barrels will skyrocket in price due to high demand and zero supply from overseas. The effect will be similar to the machine gun import ban of 1986.

2. The importation of "parts kits" or "parts sets", as we know it, is over. From now on, all machine gun parts kits can only be imported without a barrel, no exceptions.

3. Even replacement barrels for that old Mauser infantry rifle are forbidden as well as for live, registered machine guns, sporting semi-autos like AR-15, AK-47, etc. or any gun that cannot otherwise be imported whole. There are no exceptions!

4. Prices for barrels will rise drastically and, one day soon, the price of a barrel alone will be more than all the other parts of a gun combined.

We at Inter Ordnance therefore strongly urge you to take another, harder look at our wide variety of barrels and parts kits still available and get them while you still can. Five years down the road, you will be glad you did!

The following barrels can no longer be sold separately since we will need them for future "barrel-less" parts kits importations:

MG 34 8mm
MG 42 8mm
MG 15 8mm
ZB 37 8mm

The following barrels will be sold subject to availability, prior sale and the needs of Inter Ordnance:

Sten Mark III
Haenel MP 41
PPSh-41 in 7.62mm & 9mm
Bren Mark I
Bren Mark II
MG 42 .308 Win.

The following "parts kits" all come with a barrel at this time, subject to prior sale:

Sten Mk III
Bren Mk II
AKM-47 (stamped receiver type)
G3A3
G3A4
MG 42 8mm
MG 42 .308 Win.

For the items listed above as well as all our items, please visit www.interordnance.com and read the detailed descriptions and prices.

Remember, WHEN THESE BARRELS ARE GONE, THERE WILL BE NO MORE RE-SUPPLY FROM OVERSEAS!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and we look forward to your call, fax or online order.

If this message has been sent to you more than once, we apologize. This message has come to you as many times as you have applied to our mailing list. Due to the urgency of this matter, we have not had the time to clean up the list and we ask your indulgence just this one time.

Best regards,


Inter Ordnance of America
Customer Service Department
3305 Westwood Industrial Drive
USA - Monroe, NC 28110
Tel: 1+704-225-8843
Fax: 1+704-225-8362
david@interordnance.com


_____________________________________________________________


My confusion / question is with #3,
Even replacement barrels for that old Mauser infantry rifle are forbidden ....There are no exceptions![/

Now I read the ATF letter, and it says:

ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled.

Which to me contradicts the Inter Ordnance email, because the Mauser I'm thinking of (K98k) CAN be imported as a full rifle, so according to the ATF letter, you should still be able to get spares.

I realize this is a raw deal on weapons that are not available as complete weapons here and now, but for weapons that ARE available "complete" now and in the future this bill has no effect, right??

Or am I missing something?

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Kurush
July 21, 2005, 01:25 PM
I got the same email. IO is trying to drive up demand so that people will buy at their new inflated prices. There is no Mauser barrel ban :rolleyes:

SmershAgent
July 21, 2005, 01:27 PM
I have another related question. What will become of the Kalashnikov knock-offs, like the WASR, that AIM always has? Will those soon become unavailable as well, or can they be imported fully assembled?

seed
July 21, 2005, 01:31 PM
I don't know...I recently read a thread somewhere that said something similar about the BATF banning importation of parts for AK-47's or something. I can't remember where I saw it, only that I saw it last night. Sorry about that. I am very tired, so I won't be looking it up right now.

Nick1911
July 21, 2005, 01:31 PM
I have another related question. What will become of the Kalashnikov knock-offs, like the WASR, that AIM always has? Will those soon become unavailable as well, or can they be imported fully assembled?

Good question. They can't be imported with all parts, because of sporting purpose, right? So really the SAR-1s and WSAR-10s are just 'parts kits' that are assembled into live firearms using US made parts by the importer (thus the rifles are 'us made'); or am I missing something big?

SmershAgent
July 21, 2005, 01:38 PM
Good question. They can't be imported with all parts, because of sporting purpose, right? So really the SAR-1s and WSAR-10s are just 'parts kits' that are assembled into live firearms using US made parts by the importer (thus the rifles are 'us made'); or am I missing something big

That was my assesment of the situation as well, and if we're correct, I suspect the supply of these rifles will soon freezel. If the ATF has banned importation of non-sporting parts kits, then the importers will no longer be able to bring in disassembled WASRs and add a few American-made springs.

And, of course, importing these guns whole was banned in 1989.

I hope I'm misunderstanding this situation, but it looks pretty bad from what I can tell.

Obviously, clarifications from more knowledgable users are welcome.

Nick1911
July 21, 2005, 01:41 PM
It seems to be just another nail in the coffin. :(

Buy early, buy often.

RTFM
July 21, 2005, 01:57 PM
Hmmmm so the AKs' that are in my local Paw/Gun shop most likely from parts kits will be soon gone also?

If that is the case then one is going on lay-a-way this week. .....

sad.

captain obvious
July 21, 2005, 02:01 PM
Please note that this is not a "bill" in any sense of the term - rather this is a decree sent down by the noblemen at BATF :cuss:

hso
July 21, 2005, 02:19 PM
CO,

The bill was passed years ago and resulted in the whole US receiver industry florishing, but the bill always said recievers, frames and barrels, but the BATF ignored the barrel part because the receivers were cut and an american serial numbered receiver had to be used to build the gun. Now so many folks are buying AK flats or 80% bent receivers that you can build an AK from in your home shop they've decided to start enforcing the barrel provision. They also are blocking all the new "replacement" receivers and barrels from Imbel that are used on FALs.

Note that the Attorney General has the authority to exempt certain models from any or all of these requirements. That would allow the FAL builders (you can't bend a receiver for FALs) to still get barrels in their kits, but that ain't going to happen.

Kurush
July 21, 2005, 02:55 PM
My understanding is that it will not affect WASRs, because they are imported in a 'sporting' configuration and then reconfigured to be EBRs stateside, in compliance with 922(r).

captain obvious
July 21, 2005, 05:16 PM
Hmm. If that's true about the WASRs, I guess Arsenal (or the other few like companies) won't enjoy a license to print money for a short while down the road. Now if they could just put an underfolding stock on those WASRs....

Hkmp5sd
July 21, 2005, 09:43 PM
The ban has been in effect since the '68 GCA. ATF has just decided to enforce it. The " '89 Ban" was nothing more than reinterpreting what ATF considered "sporting". Help overturn the "sporting" clause of the '68 GCA and all this goes away as does 922r.

Molon Labe
July 21, 2005, 10:00 PM
:cuss:

Kurush
July 21, 2005, 10:02 PM
It is also my understanding that Arsenal Inc (not global trades) has been stockpiling barrels and has enough for several years. Note that I did not say that WASRs and Arsenal AKs will not go up in price anyway.

TheOtherOne
July 21, 2005, 10:15 PM
ATF will no longer approve ATF Form 6 applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled.Which to me contradicts the Inter Ordnance email, because the Mauser I'm thinking of (K98k) CAN be imported as a full rifle, so according to the ATF letter, you should still be able to get spares.
But a semi-auto AK-47 that I build with foreign and a few u.s. parts in my garage is also not prohibited from importation, yet they are still banning the barrels for it. It's all in how the ATF feels like interpreting it I guess. It's my understanding that the new Attorney General appointed by Bush is responsible for having the ATF re-interpret (ban) this one. So we have Bush I to thank for the '89 Import Ban. Clinton to thank for the '94 AWB and Bush II to thank for the '05 Barrel Ban. All of our recent Presidents have been gun grabbers.

Still, I would never buy from IO. They are using the unfortunate situation to inflate prices quickly and make more money. There are plenty of other companies where you can get the parts right now for dirt cheap. DPH Arms still has $99 romy AK kits.

RTFM
July 22, 2005, 04:40 PM
So, should I go put an AK on lay-a-way this weekend?
There are about 2 out of 6 nice ones in town.

Or do I wait and hope to find good ones later (which will probably be higher priced? )

Kurush
July 22, 2005, 05:10 PM
You can still get Romanian AK parts kits (better than WASRs) in excellent condition for about $100. There are several AK kit group buys open on weaponeer.net too.

TheOtherOne
July 23, 2005, 10:42 PM
I've got 8 kits boxed up in my closet! 4 Romanians, 3 Hungarians and a Yugo. :D If I had the funds, I would add more to the stash while they are still cheap. I'm hoping 8 will be enough keep my hobby alive for a couple more years. I'm sure this isn't the death of imported parts kits but it is the death of imported parts kits with intact barrels and that means you'll have to use much more expensive and inferior American made AK barrels (which don't even exist yet).

Molon Labe
July 24, 2005, 12:38 AM
I usually ignore the ATF. But this is something I can't ignore this "ruling" has interrupted my liberties.

It's high-time we do away with the ATF...

slaphappy
July 24, 2005, 09:04 PM
It's high-time we do away with the ATF...

Check out this thread over at GunsNet: http://gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=248488

(sorry if linking to another gun forum is un-cool here)

A bunch of us are brainstorming over there to organize some kind of march or demonstration. It's just kicking ideas around right now, but this could be very interesting.

LAR-15
July 24, 2005, 10:09 PM
In this instance the BATFE is merely enforcing the law.

And the BATF was done away with when the Dept of Homeland Security was created.

It is now the BATFE under the DOJ.

Kurush
July 24, 2005, 10:20 PM
In this instance the BATFE is merely enforcing the law.
Interpreting and making exceptions to the law is a major function of regulatory bodies. In this case ATF or whatever you want to call it had been issuing Form 6 exemptions for years and then suddenly decided that it was going to stop doing so, with no comment period or 60-day notification as required by law. I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there are very strong grounds for opposing this.

LAR-15
July 24, 2005, 10:25 PM
All those years they were violating the law and finally someone called them on it.

I don't like the BATFE, but in this instance they are enforcing the law correctly, in this case 925 d(3) US Code.

TheOtherOne
July 25, 2005, 05:55 AM
No they are not correctly interpreting the law. They are illegally twisting the meaning of an unconstitutional law by preventing the importation of sporting rifle barrels that I use to build my legal American made sporting semi-automatic deer rifles.

Byron Quick
July 25, 2005, 06:09 AM
I've killed a deer with an unmodified AK clone. With iron sights. Running. Legal rifle to hunt deer in Georgia. Non-sporting, huh?

Kurush
July 25, 2005, 10:26 AM
I've killed a deer with an unmodified AK clone. With iron sights. Running. Legal rifle to hunt deer in Georgia. Non-sporting, huh?
Likely story. AK-47s have only one purpose: to kill children. That's why they're sold in Russia under the name VEPR, which means "baby eating gun nut".

:duck:

Bartholomew Roberts
July 25, 2005, 12:29 PM
It's my understanding that the new Attorney General appointed by Bush is responsible for having the ATF re-interpret (ban) this one. So we have Bush I to thank for the '89 Import Ban. Clinton to thank for the '94 AWB and Bush II to thank for the '05 Barrel Ban.

In 1989, the ATF determined that military-style semi-automatics did not meet the "generally recognized sporting purposes test". This test says it is not enough that the rifle has a sporting purpose; but that rifle must be "generally recognized" as having a sporting purpose.

In 1990, the Unsoeld Amendment was passed that codified thse changes into law. It also made it illegal to assemble a banned rifle from imported parts. Using the Unsoeld Amendment as its basis, in 1999 the ATF under the Clinton Administration ruled that parts kits could not be imported as a result of this law.

In 2000 the ATF reversed itself under the Bush Administration and declared these kits could be imported for "repair and replacement purposes only".

The recent ruling basically says that there is no legal room in the original 1990 law to allow import even for "repair and replacement" and that this practice will be prohibited in the future.

SmershAgent
July 25, 2005, 04:15 PM
In 1989, the ATF determined that military-style semi-automatics did not meet the "generally recognized sporting purposes test". This test says it is not enough that the rifle has a sporting purpose; but that rifle must be "generally recognized" as having a sporting purpose.

In 1990, the Unsoeld Amendment was passed that codified thse changes into law. It also made it illegal to assemble a banned rifle from imported parts. Using the Unsoeld Amendment as its basis, in 1999 the ATF under the Clinton Administration ruled that parts kits could not be imported as a result of this law.

In 2000 the ATF reversed itself under the Bush Administration and declared these kits could be imported for "repair and replacement purposes only".

The recent ruling basically says that there is no legal room in the original 1990 law to allow import even for "repair and replacement" and that this practice will be prohibited in the future.


All of which is a result of the 1968 GCA, which I believe was the original source of the "sporting" language. That single component of the legislation has probably done more harm to peaceful gun owners than anything else since, in my opinion.

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