Any 12 Gauge Pistols?

[cosmonick]

I am going to be going on a kayak trip this fall and I "need" to purchase a flare gun. I have noticed that there are a lot of places that sell 12 gauge flares, so I was curious if anybody knew of a 12 ga pistol / derringer? It could maybe serve double duty with some Aguila Minishells.

Thanks for any help,
Mo

[mete]

You can use a flair gun as a weapon.In fact there was an incident in WWII where one member of our navy's boarding party used a flair gun !!!

[cosmonick]

Good thought :) Add the fact that you can get 12 ga capsicum rounds, maybe I'm just wasting my time.

Mo

[RyanM]

http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm

Other than that, all the 12 ga. flare guns I've seen had plastic barrels.

[Third_Rail]

I machined an insert for 12ga flares out of 4140 steel for my HK flare pistol, but it's never going to be used for actual shotgun shells - one, it's short-chambered, two, that would be quite the recoil, three - illegal.

[torpid]

You can use a flair gun as a weapon.In fact there was an incident in WWII where one member of our navy's boarding party used a flair gun !!!

I think you're confused.
A flare gun shoots flares.

A "flair gun" is a hairdryer.

:neener:

[BioDemon]

If they can make a 410 Derringer then Why not a 12ga? Or a 20ga for that matter? And who cares about recoil if your life is about to end? It just might have actial STOPPING POWER in a handgun.

[c_yeager]

In order to be legal it would have to have a rifled barrel at the very least. Smooth bored pistols are NFA items. The reason why the 12 guage flare guns get around this is because they are flat-out unsuitable for actual shotgun shells of any type. By "unsuitable" i mean that you could *probably* shoot one shell, but thats the last shell your going to be firing, ever.

Your best bet would be to get one of those nice cheap single shot 12guage shotguns and having it trimmed down to legal minimums (18"bbl 27"OAL IIRC) and just going with that. It would be a more usefull weapon and you should have no problem firing 12guage flares through it.

Honestly though, flareguns are pretty cheap and so are shotguns. Rather than splitting the difference you could just get a nice used pumpgun and a cheap plastic flare gun and have the best of both worlds.

[enfield]

A 12 ga derringer . . . . .

I'll buy it if you'll shoot it! :neener:

[kngflp]

I thought if it was manufactured as a pistol it could have as short a barrell as wanted and it would be considered an AOW with a $5 tax. Thats what they did with super shorty anyway.

[5Wire]

Pistol/Shotgun (http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm)

[cosmonick]

c_yeager
I didn't realize that there were NFA restrictions against smooth bored pistols. Seems kinda funny. I have thought about the idea of a single shot 12 Ga & it is probably the most practical. I allready have a nice pumpgun, but I was wanting something I could stuff in a backpack. Another option might be a 410/45LC, if anyone makes 410 flares...

enfield
Deal :D

Too bad someone doesn't make a single-shot 12 Ga pistol with a short chamber, just long enough to shoot Minishells. God knows I have no interest in running 3" slugs out of a handgun :)

Mo

[Robert J McElwain]

How about the Thunder5 .410 gauge revolver?

http://thunder5.com/docs1.html

Bob

[Eightball]

I thought if it was manufactured as a pistol it could have as short a barrell as wanted and it would be considered an AOW with a $5 tax. Thats what they did with super shorty anyway.Is this the case? If it is, then that mini-shotgun is the next thing on my list. And, oh yeah--I'd most def. open carry that baby :evil: .

[RyanM]

For a shotgun to count as a smoothbored pistol (AOW, with $5 transfer fee), it must be manufactured with a pistol grip. It can't have a shoulder stock on it at any time, or else it becomes a short-barreled rifle or shotgun. So if you just chop off a shotgun stock, or replace the stock with a pistol grip, it's still a shotgun. It has to have left the factory with a pistol grip on it.

Also, making a 12 ga "derringer" isn't as simple as making a .410 one. The .410 derringers do have rifled barrels and will take .45 LC ammo. A 12 ga "derringer," even if rifled, would be a "destructive device" rather than a handgun, and subject to a $200 manufacturing/transfer tax, because the bore diameter is greater than .50".

[TMM]

how about a 28 ga.? i think 20 ga. is right above .50, IIRC...

~TMM

[Eightball]

Would there be any legal ramifications to owning the Super-Shorty? Could a regular civilian order one to get shipped to an FFL, and just have it? Or, are there things written in legal-ese which only allow these sweet kinda weapons to LEO's?

And, on a more-related note, how effective would a flare (flair? :D ) gun work as a combat weapon?

[wdlsguy]

how about a 28 ga.?

28-Gauge = .550 inches

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/12.htm

[wdlsguy]

Would there be any legal ramifications to owning the Super-Shorty? Could a regular civilian order one to get shipped to an FFL, and just have it?

http://www.serbu.com/nfainfo.htm

[cosmonick]

So does anybody know where I can find .410 flares? I've looked around and can't seem to find them anywhere.

Mo

[Surefire]

12 gauge..... something like .729 caliber, and even in a heavy shotgun they kick like a mule IMO. In a pistol, that would kick like a sun of a....ehhh...gun.

My cousin had an antique .410 pistol (chambered for paper shotshells), but I've never heard of a 12 gauge pistol, much less would have NO desire to shoot one (due to the recoil).....

[GEM]

Get a flare gun at WalMart and then if it is legal to carry a firearm where you are going, do that.

There are plenty of light weight guns out there for camping. If it is not legal, then putting a shell in the flare gun will blow you up and get you arrested.

I'm sick of all those movies where the parties don't have a gun to fight the monster or psycho but at the last moment, the gal find a flare gun. Wow!

[heypete]

Hmmm...I wonder if the Super Shorty would be legal in California, so long as one paid the AOW tax?

Probably not, but it sure would be fun. :)

[wdlsguy]

Hmmm...I wonder if the Super Shorty would be legal in California, so long as one paid the AOW tax?

Apparently they are legal in California:

http://www.pcarms.com/Files/Pdf/FAQ_NFA.pdf (see pages 25 through 27)

I would confirm by contacting the manufacturer and/or a Class 3 dealer in California.

[Sven]

:what: Gotta call my attorney. Wait. Don't have an attorney. Scratch that.

[klover]

I could find it perhaps, it was a favorite once. Then carry a .357...?

The use of 12 ga flares for marine distress signals has me distressed. If you fire a test, you will see how meager they are in terms of attracting rescue.

The 25 mm (about) flare guns from the Slavic countries were available (perhaps still are?) for $29, and they are well made from steel. The flares which look as if they would work (haven't tried mine yet) cost $45 each. (I've got an untested safety device :eek: on my boat?) These flares come with a parachute, and I'm very sure they have SOLAS type of decent offshore rescue signaling capacity.

If I were to be kayaking in say AK, I'd carry the 500sw in a floatable case. The flash should equal the 12 ga signal, and grizz might get their skulls penetrated.
I would be hesitant to fire it or a 12 ga to the beam of my kayak for fear of causing a roll from the recoil :what: .