Newbie here...Assault Rifle ban-related question


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Boston Killer
July 26, 2005, 01:10 AM
Hi everyone,
I just discovered this forum today, while looking up info on HK-91 clones. Very informative I must say. At first I just wanted to learn if a Century Arms G-3 clone is worth what little they ask for it ($400 or so), but than I learned that quiet possibly I will not be able to buy that rifle at all.

Can anyone explain the freakin' California "ban" law? Is it true that I can only buy a rifle with NO pistol grip, NO muzzle break, and with a mag that can hold NO MORE than 10 rounds? What about the so-called pre-ban rifles...actually, what does "PRE-BAN" mean? Does it mean that if it's been imported here before that law took effect, I can still go out an buy a G-3?

Can anyone explain this to me? I am a little lost here. Thanks!

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Mauserguy
July 26, 2005, 01:24 AM
Hi Boston Killer,
Preban refers to the cosmetic features controlled by the now expired Clinton Gun Ban, such as pistol grips, normal capacity magazines, etc. In most states, the previously banned features are now legal. In California, there is a seperate ban.

California has an assualt weapons ban that effectively prohibits magazines greater than ten rounds (you can keep them if you owned them before 2000, but you can't get new magazines). The California ban also prohibits pistol grips and combinations of other evil features. You can only have two evil features. For example, a semiautomatic M1 carbine is legal, since it doesn't have a pistol grip, but if you put a flash hider on it, that would be three evil features (a removable magazine, a flash hider and semiautomatic) it is illegal. The flash hider itself is legal, but combining it with a semiautomatic rifle with a removable magazine makes it illegal.

If you were to rivet a ten round magazine into an M1 carbine, so that it is no longer removable, then you can mount a flash hider on the gun. We can have FALs here, but the magazines have to be riveted in place. That is how you get arround the combination prohibition.

The California law is very confusing, and the Department of Justice actually reverses its own interpretations of the law on occasion because they can't really figure it out. I am not really familiar with the G3, but I believe that it would get you jail time. Don't go near it unless it is sold through a regular store that knows the law and is cautious.
Mauserguy

MasterPiece Arms.com
July 26, 2005, 01:38 AM
Since the federal ban expired, the term "pre ban" is meaningless. Those few in CA who DO have, say, a G-3, and who registered it with the reichsfurer in time, don't have a "pre ban," what they have according to CA state government is a registered assault weapon. Since the registration deadline is LONG past, you can't have one in CA. CA learned from the federal government how to ban guns without actually "banning" them per se: they set up a registration deadline, and then after the deadline, they simply REFUSE to accept any new registrations. Slick, isn't it!? :fire:

If you want that G-3 in your house you're just going to have to move to a more free state. Luckily, you're surrounded by them.

Various companies try to offer a "California legal" version of things like ARs, FALs, and the M96 from Robinson, but to make it legal they have to remove the pistol grip (which looks so stupid it's kinda funny) and make a receiver that accepts no magazine and only holds 10 rounds.

May I ask what is keeping you in CA?

Boston Killer
July 27, 2005, 02:59 AM
Thanks for your replies folks!
There is only one more thing I am somewhat confused about:
Is any rifle with a removable magazine effectively outlawed in California?
I mean, would a rifle be illegal if it had:

a) Pistol handle and
b) Removable clip
c) No muzzle break/flash hider

I would assume that kind of rifle would be considered illegal, due to the magazine being removable. Let me know, cause there is plenty of rifles with no muzzle breaks on them, but it would not make sense for me to buy one if I can't keep it here and not be considered a criminal.

Librarian
July 27, 2005, 06:06 AM
California has a base-rifle-plus-ONE-FEATURE test, not the former federal base-plus-2-features. Sticking just to rifles, 12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches. So, no, not all rifles with removable magazines are 'assault weapons' -- probably the most common example is an M1A. But one cannot now put a Sage Mark 14 stock on one and keep it in state, because of the pistol grip and the collapsible stock.

California also has the 'named weapon' list, including12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the
following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models
identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and
86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
(3) Beretta AR-70.
(4) CETME Sporter.
(5) Colt AR-15 series.
(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.
(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.
(8) MAS 223.
(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
(14) Sterling MK-6.
(15) Steyer AUG.
(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.
(17) Armalite AR-180.
(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.
(19) Calico M-900.
(20) J&R ENG M-68.
(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.
(b) All of the following specified pistols:
(1) UZI.
(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.
(3) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.
(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.
(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.
(4) Intratec TEC-9.
(5) Sites Spectre.
(6) Sterling MK-7.
(7) Calico M-950.
(8) Bushmaster Pistol.
(c) All of the following specified shotguns:
(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.
(2) Striker 12.
(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12. What the law actually does is ban TRANSFER within the state. No more may come in, those already here cannot be sold in-state, nor inherited;. Specifically, 12280. (a) (1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six, or eight years.

and

12285. (b) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or after January 1, 1990, to anyone within this state other than to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, or as provided in Section 12288. Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days, [bullets added for emphasis]

render the weapon permanently inoperable,
sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer,
obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as
specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2,
or remove the weapon from this state.

A person who lawfully possessed a firearm that was subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of the declaration issued pursuant to subdivision (f) of Section 12276.5.
(2) A person moving into this state, otherwise in lawful possession of an assault weapon, shall do one of the following:
(A) Prior to bringing the assault weapon into this state, that person shall first obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2.
(B) The person shall cause the assault weapon to be delivered to a licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, in this state in accordance with Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. If the person obtains a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, the dealer shall redeliver that assault weapon to the person. If the licensed gun dealer, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 12290, is prohibited from delivering the assault weapon to a person pursuant to this paragraph, the dealer shall possess or dispose of the assault weapon as allowed by this chapter.
Oh, yes - Section 12230? That's a MACHINEGUN PERMIT. Imagine the odds of getting one of those. (It isn't impossible.)

The G3 is definitely a California 'assault weapon', by feature.

thatguy
July 27, 2005, 09:36 AM
Basically, you're totally, completely, thoroughly, 100% screwed living in CA when it comes to any sort of military-style rifle. Because of political pay-offs by the late Bill Ruger to the anti-gun crowd, the Mini 14 remains legal in CA (last I heard) but 10 round mags only. Same with the M1 Carbine and maybe the M1A. The SKS (10 round fixed mag version) is legal as are some older numbers like the FN 49.

There are some semi-auto (mostly AR types I have seen) that have been converted to 10 round pumps to get around the law, but who wants that? I have also seen ARs converted to used 10 round fixed magazines but big whoop there, too. Rather buy an SKS for $200 that a 10 shot AR for $1500.

You have my heartfelt condolences for your situation in CA. The socialists control the state and it has declared the Second Amendment null and void.

When enough of you decide it's time for the revolution get in touch with me. Sounds like fun and at this point in my life I don't have all that much to lose.

boofus
July 27, 2005, 10:01 AM
Bahaha. Basically this is how the California ban works:

1) If it looks fun or cool... Forget it you can't have it (semi-auto rifles and MGs)
2) Even if it doesn't look particularly cool, sometimes you still can't have it (handguns not on the approved list)
3) You must cut off your balls and don a pink tutu.

I suggest relocating to the United States, maybe some place like Nevada or Arizona or Texas. :D

TMM
July 27, 2005, 10:17 AM
go to vermont. you don't even need a liscence to CCW...(THAT is a land of the free...)

********** should be cut off the US and put in the middle of the ocean...

~TMM

nomadboi
July 27, 2005, 11:10 AM
I imagine they'll have to put in some more loopholes in another couple decades in California.

Why?

Hollywood. There are props house armouries there with amazing collections of any kinda weapon you've ever seen on screen, and probably some you haven't. Many are still legally considered firearms, and just have temporary modifications to allow them to fire blanks.

If the current laws say you can't sell, give, or inherit any of these legally owned weapons you have permits for, and you can't get any more permits either, then when a couple of these major props house owners kick the bucket, they're going to have a small crisis in Hollywood- Not that too much still gets filmed there anyway, since it's cheaper to ship your production out to Vancouver BC, Sydney Australia, Wellington NZ, or somewhere in Eastern Europe, but if they want to hang on to any kind of action films and television in Hollywood they're going to need to find a solution before those handful of old guys kick the bucket.

Assuming that by then we aren't just making all our movies through CG... :rolleyes:

boofus
July 27, 2005, 11:14 AM
********** is a cesspool of corruption. What about the laws that say no convicted felon can even touch a firearm? How many of those hollyweird stars have drug convictions?

I'll bet they turn a blind eye to whenever Tom Sizemore or Robert Downy Jr picks up a real firearm on a movie set, or even a full blown machinegun.

Or Ted 'the swimmer' Kennedy or Kofi Annan and their bodyguards with illegal machineguns.

One set of rules for the nobility, another for us peons.

Luchtaine
July 27, 2005, 11:33 AM
As a California Prisoner, the m14 is the only thing you can get, as far as detachable magazine battle rifles go.

As a PRK resident I have devised a plan to get an FAL thoug.

Here it is I am moving out of this state in a year tops!.
Stock piling Cash to aquire my toys first though.

Car Knocker
July 27, 2005, 01:28 PM
Luchtaine,

I believe you mean M1A, the semi-auto version of the M14, made by Springfield Armory (among others).

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