OK new question from the new guy seeking advice

[zookrider]

Since this issue (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148000&page=1&pp=25) has been resolved I now have a new question.

What would you buy for an everyday carry pistol given $1000 for the whole rig, ammo, holster(s), mags, cleaning kit, etc.

Factors:
1. Intended for every day concealed carry
2. Big guy (6'3 200lb)
3. no 9mm need apply
4. Very hot temps in west texas call for light clothing
5. I admire the 1911 but am by no means set on getting one, I welcome all suggestions and am not set on any make/model/caliber
6. I like to shoot and plan on doing a lot of it so ammo price is a factor
7. Low maintainance = me happy
8. Also intended for use in some practical shooting competitions

Let the mirth begin :evil:

[GLOCK19XDSC]

A Springfield Armory XD Bi-tone Service (4") model in .40 SW with night sights, Milt Sparks VM-2 or equivalent from HBE leatherworks or comp-tac CTAC (if you must have kydex).

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-xdpstl-service.shtml
http://miltsparks.com/
http://hbeleatherworks.com/
http://comp-tac.com/

Have fun!!

[dakotasin]

first choice is a stainless colt 4" 1911 in 45 acp.
second choice is a sig p-229 in 40.

either one will get you completely set up for carrying for under $1000.

[Brian Williams]

Everyday carry all the time
S&W 642 $330
pocket Holster $70

Games gun
Springfield Armory GI MilSpec $489
4 Kimber 8 round mags @$15 each $60
Good holster $80

2 Bore snakes 1 in .45, 1 in .38 $30
bottle of Hoppes $4.50

Sorry it is over budget by $74.50 but these'll do

[Preacherman]

Well, remember that if you ever have to use your gun the hard way, no matter how justified, the police will hold it for a period of several months to a few years for forensic testing and use as evidence. Therefore, you should have a backup gun, ideally the same weapon, which can use your holster, magazines, etc. For that reason, since you don't have any other guns at the moment, I'd suggest a Glock 23 in .40 S&W - two of them. Ammo is more expensive than 9mm., but can be had at a reasonable price, and Glocks are legendary for their reliability. Competition use shouldn't be a problem: if you want something a bit larger, there's the Model 22, or the Model 35, both of which offer longer barrels and sight radii. You should be able to pick up a new Model 23, holster and half-a-dozen magazines for $600-$700 new, and get a used one for about $400 more as a backup piece.

[Ala Dan]

Just remember, in competition anything less than a "tricked out" 1911
and you're likely to get smoked! :uhoh: :(

Now, for everyday carry I would second the nomination for S&W's
642. Very light (15 ozs), and comfortable for all day, 24/7 carry. :D

[Nick1911]

Now, for everyday carry I would second the nomination for S&W's
642. Very light (15 ozs), and comfortable for all day, 24/7 carry.

+1

The 642 is an ideal carry gun. It's fairly cheap, absolutely reliable, virtually maintenance free, conceals anywhere, and light enough that you'll actually carry it. An unloaded 1911 is around 3 pounds, an unloaded 642 is under 1 (15 oz?). I feel comfortable with .38 +P.

The smith 642 is _Highly_ recommended.

[Werewolf]

+1 on the 642 for daily all year carry with this caveat: Firing .357 Mag out of a 15 oz gun is not a pleasant experience (of course you can still fire standard .38's or +P's out of it but why pay the 642 premium if you aren't gonna shoot .357's out of it). Go with the model 638 which is +P rated and save a few bucks. By the way $70 for a pocket holster? You can buy an Uncle Mike's that does the same thing as the $70 one does for about $13.

OTOH if you want to carry a full size gun then I'd recommend a CZ-75B in .40S&W. Can be had for $440 or less, is very accurate and reliable. Many holsters utilzing various carry methods are available online from numerous sources.

For a grand you can get both the CZ and the 642 plus a couple of good holsters. Carry the 642 in the summer and the CZ the rest of the time.

[Nick1911]

of course you can still fire standard .38's or +P's out of it but why pay the 642 premium if you aren't gonna shoot .357's out of it

Um, I'm pretty sure that the 642 is only rated for .38+P, not .357! :uhoh:

[Werewolf]

Um, I'm pretty sure that the 642 is only rated for .38+P, not .357! Just checked the S&W site and you are correct! Sir.

Then I checked the 638 specs...

What am I missing here - I can't tell the difference between the 642 and the 638.

I'mmmmmm sooooooo confused...

[only1asterisk]

Werewolf,

You can't tell the difference between a holster and Uncle Mike's either. :evil:

I wonder if Zook can get a j-frame in his wrangler's pocket, much less get it out in a hurry.

David

[zookrider]

Well, remember that if you ever have to use your gun the hard way, no matter how justified, the police will hold it for a period of several months to a few years for forensic testing and use as evidence. Therefore, you should have a backup gun, ideally the same weapon, which can use your holster, magazines, etc.

I had never thought of this before, it is something I will definitely need to consider.

Just remember, in competition anything less than a "tricked out" 1911
and you're likely to get smoked!

Not if I'm in the "Production" class where race guns are verboten and mods are extremely limited. The purpose of this class being for people to compete with their carry piece. There is also the IDPA (http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm) which bans race guns all together.

[only1asterisk]

Question:

Competition and concealment are at odds with each other. Do you want to compromise? I'm not saying you're going to get handed you're butt everytime shooting a more concealable gun, but it will be a handicap. Also remember that you're going to be in a place where most folks aren't going to care if you carry and your gun is likely to cause alarm.

How do you feel about revolvers in general?

David

[Velocity229]

Glock 23.

[zookrider]

How do you feel about revolvers in general?

I admire them for their reliability, asthetic value, and history, but I don't really see myself carrying one on a daily basis. I do however intend to have some in my collection, eventually.

Competition and concealment are at odds with each other. Do you want to compromise? I'm not saying you're going to get handed you're butt everytime shooting a more concealable gun, but it will be a handicap.

No, I won't compromise, I'll accept the handicap in competition and not give it much thought really. Also, see the below exerpt from IDPA (http://www.idpa.com/dps.htm) the website.

Why do we need another shooting sport?

Prior to the formation of Defensive Pistol, there was no place to compete and hone one's skill with equipment designed for and suitable for self-defense. Other shooting sports are just that, sports that have no relevance to self-defense. Defensive Pistol offers an exciting new forum for practical shooters in which truly practical equipment, techniques and courses of fire are mandated. Prior to Defensive Pistol there was no place at all to compete with common service pistols such as the Beretta, Glock or Sig. Nor was there a shooting sport where your concealed carry holster could also be your match holster without handicap. When you come to a Defensive Pistol match you cannot only use your duty/CCW equipment, you can be completely competitive with it! Other shooting sports have become equipment "races," Defensive Pistol will not. If you're interested in using truly practical pistols, drawn from practical holsters to solve challenging and exciting defensive shooting problems, then Defensive Pistol is the sport for you.

[WT]

For everyday carry ......

1st choice - S&W Model 642
2nd choice - S&W Model 442
3rd choice - S&W Model 10 with 3" bbl

[Black Majik]

HK USP .45 compact

Milt Sparks VM II
Milt Sparks belt

[Pietro Beretta]

I'd suggest a Glock 23 in .40 S&W - two of them. Ammo is more expensive than 9mm., but can be had at a reasonable price, and Glocks are legendary for their ...



...for thier Kb!'s
I wouldn’t hesitate on getting a 9mm Glock...

but not one in .40. I hear too many KB! stories with the .40 supposedly even with factory ammo, even if its rare I wouldnt want to be thinking, is this going to blow up every time I shot... :eek:

[Shear_stress]

Out of curiosity, if zookrider doesn't want 9mm, than why is 38 Special okay, especially out of a 1 7/8" barrel?

That said, the Smith 642 is an excellent carry gun. Also, I have no problem with 38 Special or 9mm. Either has the juevos to get the job done.

[Wedge]

I always shot my friend's Glock 23 well. I saw one of those for $550 today at Oshman's. Not sure if that is a good price for the Austin, TX area or not but seems about what the big box stores are charging. I was never much of a Glock fan until I shot one, then I found that they worked well for me.

[CB900F]

Zookrider;

I've been carrying my H&K USPc in .40 since 1997. No reason to change. Summer, winter, riding bicycle or CB900F, skiing, etc. Milt Sparks Executive's companion holster with one of Milt's belts. Four mags for rotation, fill with Winchester white box for practice, & Winchester 180 gr SXT's for business.

Take a good long look at the H&K's, many plus's there.

900F

[only1asterisk]

What I would buy, were I you:

Quality tuckable IWB holster

This holster rides inside your pants and is constructed to allow you to tuck your shirt in over it. This allows you to cover your gun without a jacket or vest. The Milt Sparks VM-2 has been mentioned a couple of time and is a good example.

Quality belt

A good belt aids in both comfort and concealment.

Magazine Carriers

Handy, but if you wear them outside your belt they aren't going to be concealed. I'd consider skipping them and carrying my reload in my pocket.

Cleaning Kit

I want a quality rod, spear point jag, bore brush, patches, solvent, lube and silicone cloth. Dewey makes a kit that comes with 85% of the above. I think I’d start with that.

Ammunition

I'd buy 500-1000 rounds of practice ammo and 4-6 boxes of different premium self defense ammo.

Pistol

You’ve pretty much limited your choices to .40 or .45. No problem there. There are some ammo savings in picking the 40 S&W over the 45 ACP. It doesn’t amount to much per box, but over the course of a year it might add up. I think I'd restrict my thinking to pistols in the under $600 range. There are several pistols that fit the bill. I'll expound later.

Accessories

I'd buy at least 4 magazines. I might think about night sights.

I've attached a little spreadsheet that might help you budget. Or at least I though I did? Wonder where it went?

David

[only1asterisk]

Beretta 96D Compact

Highs:
Being discontinued, $350!
Smooth DA trigger
Feels like a M9
Wants very badly to be a carry gun!

Lows:
Being discontinued, get your magazines now!
DAO, great finger exerciser
Terribly size inefficient,

CZ 75 Compact
Highs:
Good quality gun
All steel construction
Much gun for the money

Lows:
Check availability for factory magazines
Little bit heavy
May need a trip back to the factory to be throated for JHP

Glock 23
Highs:
Ready supply of inexpensive magazines
Compact, size efficient
Lightweight
Large supply of factory refurbished/used police guns

Lows:
Fired cases swollen like pregnant guppies.

Kahr Arms K40
Highs:
Small, reliable 40 S&W
Very size efficient, very flat
Comfortable for large hands
DAO not major handicap
Conceals like a dream
Handles like a larger gun

Lows:
Company run by son of cult leader
Too heavy for unobtrusive pocket carry
Major price increases last 5 years, now maybe overpriced

Kahr Arms T40
Everything you liked (and didn’t like) about the K40, except slightly larger.

SIG 229
Highs:
It’s a SIG
Longish grip for concealment?
Factory reconditioned guns with warranty, for $200 less than new!

Lows:
Be prepared to pay.

SIG 245
Highs:
It’s a SIG (kinda)

Lows:
Be prepared to pay.
Not enough grip!

S&W 4013

No real experience here, but meets the criteria.

The TSW series are $$$$!

Springfield XD 4”

No real experience here, but meets the criteria.

Was a better deal a couple of years ago?

1911 types

The Commander style and 4” guns are OK, but retain a full size grip. Great for shooting, but the grip is the hardest part of a gun to conceal. Look at the 4.25” and 4”(really more like 3.9”) variants with the officers grip. Such guns are/were recently made by Para Ordnance, Kimber, Springfield Armory and others. New ones are likely to be in the $700 range and might blow the budget.


David

[Dr. J Frame]

Glock 23-

1) Concealable
2) .40 S&W(13+1 capacity)
3) Reliable
4) Inexpensive---money left over for ammo and finding the RIGHT holster
http://www.artfile.ru/w/z/add_6706_239_ArtFile_ru.jpg
I've never owned one but it sounds like it fits your needs well.
I have owned every 9X19 Glock model available and carry a G26 daily.

Good Luck

[Mark8252]

Take a look at a Taurus Model 445, 5 shot, titanium, ported, 44 special.
Titanium makes it very light (19.8 ounces), its snub-nosed, and the porting makes the recoil feel like a 38. Nobody doubts the knockdown of a 44 special.
Designed specifically for concealed carry.
http://www.taurususa.com/newsreviews/.44special_000.cfm