Army Rotc


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AechKay
July 27, 2005, 05:53 PM
Hey all,

Just wanted to let everyone know that I was accepted into the Siena College ROTC program for the Army! Just wondering if anyone here every went through ROTC.

Also, I was curious what weapons I'd be handling. I'll of course ask my superiors, but if anyone wants to quote their past experience here, that'd be cool too.

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Missouri Mule
July 27, 2005, 05:55 PM
Congrats and good luck!

Ohen Cepel
July 27, 2005, 06:17 PM
Congrats!

Every school is different. We shoot .22 target rifles some and qualified on the M16 before our senior year. Didn't really do much weapons training since they have to borrow weapons from the Army most of the time due to issues/cost of having an arms room.

However, your experience could be much different. It's been a while for me.

Good Luck!

If I'm still around feel free to PM me when you're starting to look at which branch of the Army you want to go into (or any time before then if you like). Make the decision that is right for you, not for your buddies.

jefnvk
July 27, 2005, 06:25 PM
I took the lab (not eligible for military service). Mostly we used the M16 rubber ducky guns weekly.

Those that got to go on the FTX and BRM (not eligible for military, so I didn't get to go) used M16A2's and M249's on the FTX, on loan from the local NG armory. BRM was shot with live ammo, FTX with blanks.

Also, they opened the campus pistol range occasionally on friday morning, and shot M16A2's with the .22LR adapter kit.

I also took another ROTC class, Military Marksmanship. That was taught with Ruger MKII pistols. This year, both the MKII pistols and the M16's with the conversion kit will be taught.

I really wish I had gotten to go on the FTX. It was a joint exercise with another college ROTC group, and the local NG. Supposedly they had vehicles out there too, plus the weapons with blanks.

bogie
July 27, 2005, 06:28 PM
Clue Bat:

Pay attention in map reading class. It'll seem stupid. It isn't. Become the Best Damn Map Guy In The World. Know how to figure coordinates, know how to pinpoint different locations, know how to get from point A to point C to point B, etc.

You're gonna be an officer. If you need a weapon, you can pick one up.

Checkman
July 27, 2005, 06:35 PM
Army R.O.T.C. Boise State University. Boise,Idaho (1986-1989).

A couple times we borrowed M16's from the Idaho Army National Guard and qualified on them. In the summer of 1988 I attended Advance Camp at Fort Lewis. We qualified with the M16's there as well. In addition we also fired the M60 GPMG and a 105mm howitzer. We weren't expected to qualify on the howitzer though. :p

Times have changed since the Regan Era and I don't know what your small arms training will consist of. But, if you decide that R.O.T.C. is for you and sign the contract after the first two years, you will find the experience challenging, stimulating, fun, demanding, frustrating, irritating and unforgettable. You'll also find that being a "ROTZE NAZI" on a civilian campus can be something of a surrealistic experience.

I met my wife in college. She was a theater arts major and I was majoring in ROTC with a side of liberal arts for good measure. She had no experience with the military and I most definitely had no experience with actors, even student actors. Well that was seventeen years, two children and a mortgage ago.

The Army took us to Europe and New York. It was an experience. If you're already in shape then stay in shape and if you aren't then get that way. Work on being able to roll with the punches and learn how to control both your temper and mouth. If you can do these things then you'll do okay. Keep a positive attitude (because in the coming years you'll need it) and good luck.

If you want to know anything more specific then e-mail me. I don't think the good people on this forum want to be bored with the minute details of life in the Army.

jason10mm
July 27, 2005, 06:40 PM
We used M16s a lot and an occassional M60. We got to use a lot of stuff from the 82nd since almost all of our cadre were former Airborne and we were just a few hours away. We also got use of the Weaponeer, a laser shooting sim that ran off of a Nintendo console (mid 90s).

I second the map reading. It is a CONSTANTLY tested skill and one that you are either good at or SUCK at. Forttunately I have a reliable pace count and a decent eye for geography that helped me a lot.

Join the Ranger Challenge team if your school has one. You get to learn a lot of highly useful skills that will help you tremendously at advanced camp. Plus you get to learn how to strip and reassemble a M16 and a M60 blindfolded, in the dark, and drunk, skills that you will never forget and may need someday.

Physical Fitness is a key trait, as it is also easily tested. Run like the wind and hump a ruck for training!

Otherwise keep quiet and absorb everything the NCO's tell you. You can decide what you like or dislike later, but be a knowledge sponge for the first couple of years.

I got to qualify with the M16, shoot a M249 SAW, M2HB 50 cal, 105mm howitzer, toss a grenade, use a bayonet and rig up a brick of C4 with det cord at advanced camp. Rode in a few M1A1s and qualified with the M9 at CTLT with the Big Red One.

Gabby Hayes
July 27, 2005, 07:26 PM
You guys must all be younger than me. When I was in ROTC, we had racks and racks of M1 Garands in the ROTC building, minus firing pins, plus a dozen or so M1911A1s. We took them out all the time for drill and the occasional weekend field problem in the boonies. Three years after I graduated the student body got upset over something and came in and burned the building to the ground, weapons and all. The National Guard was called in and ended up killing four students before it was all over.

Blackcloud6
July 27, 2005, 09:13 PM
Commissioned at Ohio University in 1981. We had demilled M1903s and 03A3s for drill and tactical exercises. Most of us were also in the Ohio guard so we would get range time and get to us M16s in the field. You'll probably get to fire most of the infantry small arms at Advanced Camp.

Good luck!

isp2605
July 27, 2005, 10:02 PM
Q: Who's the most dangerous person in the Army?
A: A 2Lt with a compass.

As others said, learn map/compass until you can do it without even thinking about it.

entropy
July 28, 2005, 12:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/mosinfan/funnypostabove.gif

U of Minn., 1982. Just did the first year. Good advice so far. Learn maps and orienteering. Join the Cadet Ranger unit.

We used Winchester 52D's and Remington 513T's in the Armory basement weekly, and M16A1's with Atchisson or Ciener conversion units in them once.

On FTX's, 16A1's and 60's from a local NG unit. I did get to fire a live M72A1, not a subcaliber trainer, in ROTC. :evil:

Checkman
July 28, 2005, 10:11 AM
I went through Advance Camp with a cadet from the ROTC program at Kent State. I remember that he said it was an experience attending such an "infamous" program. Keep in mind that it was 1988 and they would still get at least one or two hate mails every week. Ahh the good old days. :rolleyes:

entropy
July 28, 2005, 10:28 AM
Yes, despite the protesters out in front of the Armory, imagine my dissapointment when I found out the 'How to Slit a Baby's Throat 10 Different Ways' course was cancalled just before I enrolled. :rolleyes:

We could not convince those purple mowhawked freaks that we didn't take weekend jaunts to El Salvador to practice such things. :rolleyes:

AechKay
July 28, 2005, 03:48 PM
Wow,

Everyone thanks for your quick responces. Its good to have some support while I undertake this task. For my first year, I have to take Fundamentals of Military Science I and a Leadership Lab which goes over Map Reading, Terrain Navigation, Etc. At this point in time, I'd say that's my weakest point. I've always had problems with direction (mainly because I was never really instructed in them :P) I hope to remedy this problem this coming semester.

Yea, so I talked to a few others in the program and they told me we'd be using some M-16s (not sure which model). So that sounds like fun.

As for the physical fitness, yea I need to work on that. I've been doing pushups and situps everynight. I havent started running yet, but I can get into the swing of that easily. They suggested I work on my endurance, instead of milage. IE: run for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes as opposed to half a mile, mile, mile and a half, two miles, etc. So I should do that three days a week, and work my speed two days (sprints and the like).

Thats all the news I have for now :P Again, thanks.

sfhogman
July 28, 2005, 04:06 PM
AFROTC, San Francisco State, 1968-1970.Very weird time. We used the original AF m16s- no forward assist. Congratulations!

Best,
Jeff

misANTHrope
July 28, 2005, 04:48 PM
Current Navy ROTC, graduating next spring. We don't get to play with guns much, though- there are the good old rubber M16s that the Marines break out when we get Gunny PT, and some Garands for the rifle team, but that's it. We used to have a pistol team, but can't get funding any more. However, last summer I spent four weeks aboard USS Bonhomme Richard in San Diego, and got a chance to qualify with the M9 in Point Loma, and we also had an M14 shoot while underway. The XO taped his target to his stateroom door with a nice tight group center mass. :D

Like others have said, soak up anything and everything while you're there. Lots of students are only around for the money, and everything else is just required reading that they won't put a lot into. Listen to your staff and the upperclassmen; be the guy who sets the example within your freshman class. Be the rising star of the newbies.

scout26
July 28, 2005, 05:20 PM
As a former Cadidiot (Advance Camp, aka Camp Snoopy, Ft. Lewis '87).

Map Reading and PT are most important. We had M16A1's but only shot them twice a year. My club now hosts ROTC shoots so that they get a bit more practice before going to Basic and Advanced Camps.

I was prior service so I "helped" :rolleyes: my fellow cadidiots with everything from the Manual of Arms to cleaning. I've never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who CANNOT learn how to read a map.


Did CTLT at Ft. Knox with guy from Kent State. He referred to it as "Combat College".

The current Provost Marshal of Kuwait is a Siena graduate, who I served with in Germany. As a brand new, fresh out of MPOBC, 2LT he shows up in Germany with nothing but a duffle bag full of uniforms/clothes and a LaCrosse stick. :what:

PershingRiflesC-7
July 28, 2005, 09:36 PM
Army ROTC, Oklahoma State University, 1973-77, followed by active duty as a Field Artillery officer, 1978-81, and National Guard, 1981-84.

We used M14s for drill as well as FTX -- firing pins were removed except for FTX. Even had A3 selector switches for full auto. Also had 1903A3s for fancy drill: spins, tosses, etc.

If available on your campus, organizations and activities such as the Ranger Challenge, Pershing Rifles, Scabbard and Blade, etc. are good for developing military skills as well as associations that will last a long time. These are also opportunities for developing leadership skills that you will need as an officer.

I second just about every suggestion presented so far, such as lots of PT and really dig in on the map reading/terrain navigation/orienteering. Listen and learn from those you respect, take on the best attributes and leave the rest. Take the opportunity to develop command voice during drill. You will know what a good one sounds like when you hear it.

Take additional training opportunities when you can. One of the best for me was acting as indigenous forces for a Reserve Special Forces group for them to train. Learned demolition with the real stuff and made big noises. Also, they used us for small unit tactics training: patrolling, ambushes, etc. The members of the SF unit were all Vietnam vets -- got good stories, too.

ARGarrison
July 28, 2005, 10:14 PM
Purdue ARMY ROTC 89-90

Only one year, but I loved it. We had an Arms room under the armory which had Springfield Rifles, and I belive our own Kimber .22 rifles. I'm not sure about who the rifle belonged too. We would beg, barrow and well we didn't steal everything from area Guard units. Mostly from the Armored Cav regiment Indiana had back then. We'd get M16A1s which we replaced the bolts with a .22LR kit and shoot both the M16 and the Kimber rifles in the armory. The M16A2 were in service and some of our prior service guys had trained on them, but Indiana guard didn't have any. We also got hold of M60s and M1911A1, never fired them in ROTC class, but learned take down and reassmeble. Had a few empty LAW rockets to also for hands on. The M249 was new then and again Indiana had not yet got Berettas.

FTXs were better. It was like Christmas. We begged some fourty plus M16s for the Ranger FTX so everyone had either an M-60 or M16 including OPFOR. Blank adapters and lots of blanks to go around. I even remember M203s in the weapons racks, but don't know if they were issued for FTX but did get hand on like the M1911A1s.

The Springfields and three plasic AKs were handed out during lab at times when we'd run Tac lanes and the like through Hort Park. I'll always rememeber walking around Purdue University with a M16 slung over my shoulder.

Burt Blade
July 28, 2005, 10:21 PM
Speaking as a former Infantryman I suggest that you:

1) Decide here and now that personal integrity is your #1 characteristic, and that it is the first principle of leadership. If you have this one thing, you can learn everything else. If you lack it, not much else will matter.

2) Become the Jedi Master of Land Navigation, by map and compass. GPS is great until you discover dead batteries. "Lost" is an unforgivable sin.

3) The radio is the deadliest man-made tool in your arsenal. With it, you have everything else available. Learn how to call artillery fire and air strikes. That map and compass you mastered in #2 is now your sighting system.

4) Your Platoon Sergeant is a highly experienced professional. Learn from him. To a lesser extent, so is the average Private First Class. If you do not respect enlisted men for their professionalism, why should they respect you?

5) Identify fellow soldiers who are combat veterans. The Combat Infantry Badge is one way to identify such people. Seek their experience, and pay particular attention to any advice or instruction they may offer. They have bested combat, the one true test of the soldier.

OEF_VET
July 29, 2005, 02:25 AM
Speaking as a former Infantryman I suggest that you:

1) Decide here and now that personal integrity is your #1 characteristic, and that it is the first principle of leadership. If you have this one thing, you can learn everything else. If you lack it, not much else will matter.

2) Become the Jedi Master of Land Navigation, by map and compass. GPS is great until you discover dead batteries. "Lost" is an unforgivable sin.

3) The radio is the deadliest man-made tool in your arsenal. With it, you have everything else available. Learn how to call artillery fire and air strikes. That map and compass you mastered in #2 is now your sighting system.

4) Your Platoon Sergeant is a highly experienced professional. Learn from him. To a lesser extent, so is the average Private First Class. If you do not respect enlisted men for their professionalism, why should they respect you?

5) Identify fellow soldiers who are combat veterans. The Combat Infantry Badge is one way to identify such people. Seek their experience, and pay particular attention to any advice or instruction they may offer. They have bested combat, the one true test of the soldier.

These are wise words. I couldn't have said it better myself.

vesmcd
July 29, 2005, 02:31 AM
Aechkay, can't help on weapons, been too long ago. I have to agree with the others who emphasise the map reading skills. Learn and you will never get lost, even without a map.
GabbyHayes, in high school ROTC( W.H. Adamson,DallasTX,1964-1968), all Cadets were issued fully functional M1's. The drill team used de-milled O3A3's. We had a rimfire rifle range in the basement next to the armory. Don't remember what kind of rifles we used on the rifle team. I was on the rifle team all 4 years of high school(didn't have junior hi in my part of the school dist.) and graduated as a Lt.Col./Student Instructor. Then came college, U.Tex./Arlington,1968-70. Winchesters for the rifle team( I was second team, too many GOOD shooters). No arms issued to the cadets. The drill team (Sam Houston Rifles)again had 03A3's. I discovered beer and was asked to leave the campus and never return ( because of 0.25 GPA,true statement). End of ROTC career.
AechKay, have fun, but not too much.

AirPower
July 29, 2005, 05:41 AM
Is ROTC basically an officer training school done in a public university setting? Do you automatically get a commission upon graduation? 2nd LT? Is it basically a less glamorous military school training akin to West Point?

eab
July 29, 2005, 09:54 AM
Kind of or the smarter choice then West Point some would say.

ROTC stands for Reserve Officer Training Corp. You are a student 6 out of 7 days of the week. 1 day a week you are a cadet. If you compleate the program and graduate you recieve a 2 Lt. comision.

Most of the officers I have met are ROTC grads or OTS grads.

I personaly am doing AFROTC at MTU and will be going into my second year.

We Air Force cadets get little play time with things that go boom. Drill rifles are demilled 1903s. Last year we shot the local JROTCs pellet guns and got to shoot the NGs M16 simulator. Looking at the targets of the pellet guns the JROTC commander said I would have better luck running up and hitting the enammy with my gun..... :uhoh: Got some practice to do I guess. Also we shot the pistol clubs Ruger MKIIs. Thats about it.

After watching my fellow cadets shoot, and myself, I am a firm beliver in the fact that any pistol issued to people with little training should have a BIG a clip as possible even if you have to compramise in calilber.

CAS700850
July 29, 2005, 10:08 AM
Hey eab, how is ROTC a smarter choice than West Point, or any other academy? I would say that for many people, it is a better choice, based upon lifestyle, the demands of the academies, etc., but I would never categorize one as inherently better than the other. The academies are respected institutions that produce excellent leaders, Even if you don't want a career in the military, a diploma from West Point, Annapolis, or the Air Force Academy is highly respected, on par with the finest school inthe country, and viewed as superior to many schools.

Granted my bias from having been a West Point cadet... :D

eab
July 29, 2005, 10:42 AM
Ah, you are one of those people.... ;)


Well if you like the idea of being harased the intire first year, waking up at 5:00 am and not getting done with homework untill 11:00 pm, having very few females on campus (being at MTU I should not talk), having to fold your underwear a certain way and being subject to room inspections and stuff of that nature then the Academy or West Point is the place for you!

There are benifets from both ways. The Aacademy or West Point is more .mil training and has excelent instructors I am sure. From people I have talked to ROTC gives you more real world expearnce.

I have met AF Officers who went to OTS, ROTC, and the Academy, all have apeared compatent and seemed like decent guys. Don't want to get into a argument of which is better right now. Its just a ROTC thing to pick on or tease Academy or West Pointers. Thats all.

CAS700850
July 29, 2005, 11:18 AM
Fair enough. And we picked on you part-time toy soldiers as well. ;)

That said, I agree with you. For me, West Point forced me to grow up more than I think ROTC would have, because it was full time. I did envy the social life of the ROTC cadets, but its like this. When I got to law school, they did one of those "Look at the person to your left, now to your right. One of the three of you won't be here at the end of the first year. This is the hardest thing you will ever do in your life." Yeah. Right. Whatever.

It's all about making the right choices for you.

And, by the way, I met some really crappy officers who waived a WP class ring at me, as if that excused their poor performance. And some excellent officers from ROTC and OCS. It's the person in the uniform, not how they got the bars.

jason10mm
July 29, 2005, 11:55 AM
There will always be some envy/rivalry between the ring knockers and the ROTC guys (then throw in the Citadel and VMA for good measure). Since I am probably gonna be career, I wish now that I had gone to an Academy (especially since I got like zero play in college :banghead: ). A little inter-service/inter-school competition is a good thing, IMHO, so long as it doesn't interfere with the big job. You never see the news report on it (too busy with enlisted recruitment numbers), but I wonder how the applications to the Academy and ROTC units are, going up or down? I recon almost everyone not getting an ed delay is heading to the sand box, even the REMF-wannabe guys are probably having to pull 4 years with a combat arms unit before switching over to MI or whatever.

CAS700850
July 29, 2005, 12:12 PM
Last I talked with anyone with real knowledge, a buddy that is still in, siad Air Force and Navy numbers basically unchanged, while Army numbers have taken a hit, especially at ROTC levels. Still have the hard core types headed to West Point.

jefnvk
July 29, 2005, 01:42 PM
I personaly am doing AFROTC at MTU and will be going into my second year.

Michigan Tech? (Gotta be, from that whole no women comment)

entropy
July 29, 2005, 03:36 PM
Having been in ROTC and enlisted later on, I'd agree that it's the person wearing the bars, and not the method of getting them. Having said this, I will also say the best officer I ever worked with was an SF CPT who had been an SF medic up to E-6 before going to OCS. But I have also known some excellent ROTC officers, and every West Pointer I encountered was very professional. (Some in a STRAC sort-of way, though. ;) )

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