Outback Steakhouse in Fairfax does NOT want our money


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KONY
July 28, 2005, 11:06 PM
Hey there folks,

Just thought I'd report on my "attempted dinner" tonight at Outback Steakhouse in Fairfax. I sat down with the wife and "tried" to have a meal only to be approached by "Joey the owner" and told that "we can't allow guns here. would you mind leaving it in your car?" ... I responded, "oh I am sorry. I didn't see your sign" (because they don't have one). We got up and start on our way towards the exit and he calls over and asks me, "would you like me to have an appetizer waiting for you at the table?" ... I turn around half-amazed and half-annoyed and say, "oh, we aren't coming back, thank you". We ended up taking a nice drive over to Lone Star Grill and had a great meal at a gun-friendly establishment. I have no idea if this is corporate policy or just this location but it is quite obvious that they do not want our business. Oh well, they're not the only steak in town ... I just hope they have enough business acumen realize this.

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Sindawe
July 28, 2005, 11:09 PM
On those rare occasions I've eaten steak, and have done so at Outback, it has not been a very good steak. Lone Star is much better.

RKCheung
July 28, 2005, 11:24 PM
For those who aren't familiar with VA CCW policies, one must open carry when in a resaturant that serves alcohol.

marshall3
July 28, 2005, 11:27 PM
Outback steaks are tough anyway. You did the right thing, and we should let these restaurant people know they are driving away good customers.

KriegHund
July 28, 2005, 11:30 PM
I rather enjoy the outback steaks they have here.

Its a shame they didnt want your protection though.

Eightball
July 28, 2005, 11:34 PM
Strange that they don't have a sign if that is corporate policy. Maybe it's just that one anti owner :scrutiny: ?

KONY
July 28, 2005, 11:36 PM
Well, I have only limited experience eating at Outback but this is just a stupid business move. there's just too much competition out there to alienate such a large contingency. Oh well, just makes the decision over where to eat easier.

misANTHrope
July 29, 2005, 12:06 AM
I work for Outback, and as far as I know, there's no corporate policy prohibiting customer carry. I'm pretty sure it's up to the individual proprietor.

Standing Wolf
July 29, 2005, 12:10 AM
Mediocre steaks, anyway.

thatguy
July 29, 2005, 12:22 AM
Is Outback a franchise operation with individual owners? sounds like the one owner or manager's work. The outback I have visited is not posted against concealed carry. But then, nowhere is, around here.

pauli
July 29, 2005, 01:25 AM
have you let vcdl know?

KONY
July 29, 2005, 01:27 AM
Not yet but I will. Also, I am in the process of getting a letter drafted to Outback HQ.

KONY
July 29, 2005, 01:32 AM
VCDL email sent.

Del3030k
July 29, 2005, 01:39 AM
I sure do like the steaks at Outback....

mmmmmm.

Just thinking about about the NY strip, med rare, loaded (no pun) baked potato, and a salad with ranch dressing.

Oh, and maybe....3 of those loaves of rye bread with soft butter.

My heart aches for your tummy.

I like to get it to-go nowadys though. No need to pay $2 a soda, $3 a beer, or $5 per liquor, and I don't have to tip. Hell, at Outback, you don't even have to get out of your car if you phone it in ahead of time ;) Make sure you have you are abiding all state laws in your car with your firearms though!

I do love Outback - I've never seen a sign in KY or OH at any of their restuarants though. I think the manager was a pinko liberal anti gun ninnie whose father never loved him. :neener: Or, he was just uneducated!!!!

Keith

Cesiumsponge
July 29, 2005, 01:39 AM
We have an Outback here and it was mediocre but I didn't like the way it was setup much. I go to Black Angus if the occasion calls for steak. I like the atmosphere better and the drinks seem stronger. :D

Taurus 66
July 29, 2005, 01:57 AM
Who goes out to restaurants anyways??

I'd be needlessly exposing myself to hepatitis from their improperly washed silverware, plates, glasses, etc... or a flu virus from Mr. Dirt sitting a table away.

At home my cold brews are half the cost in restaurants, and I don't have to worry about DUI/DWI.

At home I can smoke at my leisure. New York banned smoking in all public places.

At home I can listen to the music I want for a change or pull a tv out back.

My bathroom is clean!

The landscape scenery I create is all natural and is more appealing than some dimly lit ceiling & wall atmosphere.

I'd be paying 2 to 3 times more for a the same food I could cook myself and it wouldn't taste anywhere as good as what I can get slow grillin'.

Although New York is CCW, I can open carry on my property, and nobody can tell me, "Please leave" or "Put that in the house".

SnakeEater
July 29, 2005, 02:01 AM
Hmm, I am a "regular" during football season, but only for the takeout bloomin' onion. For my tastes Longhorn has about the best filet mignon money can buy, Outback can't compare.

mountain_cowboy
July 29, 2005, 02:02 AM
Well, I'm gonna have to go and disagree with some of what's been said. I do think you should have been allowed to open carry in the restaurant. It's your right to open carry in your state. However, it's the right of the owner/manager to forbid your open carry on his private property. I think we can all agree on that. My disagreement comes in the question of the fiscal repercussions of their policy. It's sad to say, but I think in this day and time, those who would support open carry in Outback (at least enough to take their $ elsewhere) are in the minority. I think you'd have more customers who'd be appalled at the manager allowing open carry in the restaurant. I also think these people would be more likely to take their business elsewhere, and to spread the word to the hoplophobes to avoid that dangerous saloon, the Outback, like the plague. Can you believe they allowed A GUN! in there? Let me reiterate that I don't like the policy, nor do I agree with it, but I wouldn't say that it's necessarily bad business sense. I guess it also depends on the social climate in your area. Had it been me, I probably would have returned the gun to the car and finished my meal. I understand the statement made by leaving, but sometimes practicality and logic must reign. The statement really won't have impact to the owner unless it carries financial repercussions. As I stated earlier, I think the impact will be less with you leaving and telling us about it, than you being allowed to open carry and the one or two other families feeling uncomfortable to terrified and telling their cohorts about it. I think the likelihood of having to defend oneself during that 45 minute meal would be miniscule, far, far less than the risk of getting back in that car and heading off at 55 miles per hour in traffic. But then again, you could always walk and be safer (more protected). I don't know, some folks are going to say this attitude of giving in is what's plaguing RKBA. Some may call it traitorous. Some may agree with me. But to me, a good steak might be worth the 1 in N chance of an unprotected attack. That's all this had to be about. Not every inconvenience has to be martyrdom.

Cesiumsponge
July 29, 2005, 02:12 AM
I'd be needlessly exposing myself to hepatitis from their improperly washed silverware, plates, glasses, etc... or a flu virus from Mr. Dirt sitting a table away.

It's part of the public dining experience...go play in the dirt and build up an immune system! :neener:

I don't eat at restraunts all the time. I much prefer eating at home since I get what I want, when I want, how I want, and as much as I want for the fraction of the cost. Though it is nice to go to a restraunt once in a while with the family or friends. When they make a mess, it stays there!

jaysouth
July 29, 2005, 02:21 AM
In the business of serving the public, you play the numbers. If you think more people would enjoy non-smoking dining rather than smoke/no-smoke sections, you go that way. If you think more people would be put off by the sight of openly carried firearms, you run your business accordingly. Your 'rights' are going to get seriously trampled if they come between me and my paycheck.

Like it or not, MOST people are put off and ill at ease by being in the presence of someone openly carrying a firearm. "Why is this person armed? Is THIS place that dangerous? Is he crazy or what? Why isn't the managment doing something? I don't want to be around when he starts shooting!! My children/children/mother are frightened."

If you are in as frangable a business as hospitality, you can lose your whole business, decades of bone breaking work and life savings in about two heartbeats. On accidental discharge in your dining room might do it, would do it if a patron got hurt.

Whatever your 'rights' are, you do not frighten the women and children.

By the way, the steaks at Outback are grossly inferior. They are individually marinated in tenderizer and a spice mix to hide the taste of the tenderizer and then cryovaced. They might be in that cryovac pouch for months before they get to your table. Prime aged steak needs only salt and pepper to be at its most mouthwatering tender best. Prime aged steak in a non chain steakhouse or fine dining restaurant costs the operators three times as much as the chemical suprises that you get at chain steakhouses. You MIGHT pay twice as much. As always you pay now or you pay later. I had always rather stress my wallet than my digestive tract.

Someone convince me that the industrial strength tenderizers quit working when you bite into the steak!! Think about that one for a minute.

Taurus 66
July 29, 2005, 02:29 AM
Like it or not, MOST people are put off and ill at ease by being in the presence of someone openly carrying a firearm. "Why is this person armed? Is THIS place that dangerous? Is he crazy or what? Why isn't the managment doing something? I don't want to be around when he starts shooting!! My children/children/mother are frightened."

It's funny you mention this. I too think the general gun ignorant population thinks this way. One all too important oversight is, "Could he/she be an off duty police officer, or peace officer?" Extremely rare is the conclusion of their thoughts something positive.

KONY
July 29, 2005, 02:45 AM
Hi Jaysouth,

I just wanted to respond to your post. Please keep in mind that I mean no offense by my comments ... just offering my counterpoint.

In the business of serving the public, you play the numbers.

If I was in the "minority" here in VA, we would not be as far along as we are in terms of RKBA issues.


Your 'rights' are going to get seriously trampled if they come between me and my paycheck.

My dollars won't become part of your paycheck if you trample on MY rights. Now, if I am not in the minority as I assert in my previous argument, I think that will hurt.

Like it or not, MOST people are put off and ill at ease by being in the presence of someone openly carrying a firearm.

I know lots of people that are "put off" by the sight of physically and/or mentally disabled individuals and some that are from a different ethnic background, is it ok to tell parties where such individuals are dining to "go make them wait in the car?" ... really being extreme here but I am just want to stimulate thought about where our rights end/begin.

If you are in as frangable a business as hospitality, you can lose your whole business, decades of bone breaking work and life savings in about two heartbeats. On accidental discharge in your dining room might do it, would do it if a patron got hurt.

What do people think when they see the sign that shows you how to do the Heimlich Maneuver? ... "Geez, people choke in here?!! I am taking my money elsewhere!" Moreover, how many people you think die from choking compared to "accidental" discharges in restaurants each year?

KriegHund
July 29, 2005, 03:06 AM
Oh, and maybe....3 of those loaves of rye bread with soft butter.

A meal by itself, those things are friggin delicious.

jaysouth
July 29, 2005, 03:07 AM
Kony,

I understand your point of view, As a state, Virginia is very gun friendly and generally a good place for gun owners to live, however, if it were put to a referendum in f**kemfast county, VA, where this steakhouse is, you would be required to turn all your guns in for destruction and attend deprogramming classes to get you over it. That comment might be a little pithy from someone who is not politically correct, but I think reflects the reality that is large urban area, America. If you were to ask of any of the elite souls that live there, there is simply no need for citizens to have guns in this day and age. As high as the taxes are in f**kemfast, the police will certainly keep you safe.

My first hospitality operation was a blue collar beer joint in Arlington, VA, a long...long time ago. I had customers in that venue put at unease when there was new gun show and tell or trading going on. My last gig was 35 years later, a fine dining restaurant in Richmond. Even in Richmond, the annointed that frequent such places would not tolerate 'ruffians or undesirables' sitting around with guns in the dining room.

You are debating the court of public opinion in a specific region that is very ANTI-gun. Thank god that the Virginia legislature is controlled by the good old boys from South East VA. If those enlightned squires from Northern Virginia were in charge, the NRA museum would be in WVA and you would be banned from owning a picture of a gun.

KONY
July 29, 2005, 03:38 AM
jaysouth,

Point taken. I just feel that many things do not get done because folks are pacified by ccw permits. Tonight, my "permit" didn't mean squat as far as being able to eat where I planned so we still have lots of work to do here.

chris in va
July 29, 2005, 05:37 AM
Hey Luke, I think this has happened there before and the manager is a bit dodgy about the situation. IIRC, some letters were sent to corporate as well, but I never heard what the outcome was.

I remember the problems and decided to leave my piece in the car last time I ate at the one in...Chantilly was it? It's been a while.

Hey, at least you tried. :o

KONY
July 29, 2005, 05:45 AM
Chris,

Any idea who it was that ate there ... was it posted here? Someone told me Outback was listed as "gun-owner unfriendly" on vcdl's site but I don't see it on there. Just Red Lobster. :confused:

steveracer
July 29, 2005, 07:21 AM
My wife is an employee, and I have on occaision worked a few of their parties, but either way, we eat there about once a week. (Half price!) I Carry every time, all the time. Nice people, and pretty good food. (For what we pay. I would eat there MUCH less often for full price, not to cut cost, but to buy a better product.)
BTW: I walked into the freezer there, and guess what I saw: Glasses, ice cream, ice. That's it. They toss EVERYTHING each night, and the truck comes every morning with more fresh food. I have personally been there and seen the trucks unload. The beef is never frozen, and the seafood is from right here in town. That's the main reason I eat there.

Rich K
July 29, 2005, 07:37 AM
I've been to the Outback a time or two,but I hate long lines for average food.My family and I will go to Logan's steakhouse,or the Lonestar.If we want Italian,ther are a couple of small places here in town that have the best veal I've ever eaten.But we usually eat at home.

CAPTAIN MIKE
July 29, 2005, 09:55 AM
You could have told him that you have to follow the law that requires Open Carry in restaurants that serve alcohol. Tell him that as soon as they stop serving alcohol, then you can carry concealed so the Sheeple don't get "worried" that you might start blazing away if you're steak is overdone.

HankB
July 29, 2005, 10:10 AM
It's probably the policy of the local restaurant's management.

Some years back, Outbacks in the local Austin area actually sponsored a shotgun tournament of some sort, and despite rumors to the contrary, I haven't personally encountered a local Outback that has posted the signage required by TX PC30.06 law of businesses that wish to prohibit concealed carry. (No open carry here unless you're LEO.)

Generally, a business MAY ban the carrying of firearms - most states with carry laws spell out under which circumstances they may do so. But gun owners are also within their rights to take their business elsewhere, encourage others to do so, and inform the chain's corporate management of this. (Applebee's restaurants in San Antonio changed their anti-concealed-carry policy after Corporate found out about it and spanked the local franchisee's management.)

I find Outback steaks to be pretty good, though there actually IS some variation from one restaurant to the next in terms of both quality and service.

Byron Quick
July 29, 2005, 10:31 AM
I haven't carried openly since back in the '70's. Before we got CCW in Georgia. I never had people freaking out about the long haired hippy with a gun. Every single stranger that I ever talked to...assumed that I was a police officer-hair past my shoulders and all.

I did have a state trooper approach me at a checkpoint while loudly remarking,"Long haired expletive,(stomp) hippy expletive (stomp), all the way up to my car. He saw the 1911 sitting on the seat next to me and politely asked,"May I see your license, sir?"

I refrained from asking what happened to change the obscene profanity associated with my appearance. Drove away from that checkpoint as a supporter of RKBA.

Mr. James
July 29, 2005, 10:39 AM
jaysouth,

I'll not dispute your characterization of - heh - Fairfax County, but as a resident of same, I carry openly quite often with no untoward reactions. 'Course, I'm reasonably trim, clean-shaven and, usually, neatly dressed. I think the vast majority do assume I'm a peace officer. Why on earth would anyone else carry openly? I even had one good soul ask me - no kidding - was I working undercover. Yeah, real deep cover. :)

If they want to think along those line, fine. Just don't be surprised if I don't 5-O it if the worst happens.

Sistema1927
July 29, 2005, 10:42 AM
Outback=Australia=no guns

Lone Star=Texas=guns

countertop
July 29, 2005, 10:52 AM
Which one is this?? I've been to the Outback in Vienna and the one in Falls Church without problems or anyone saying anything to me. Is this one over near Fair Lakes??? Or is it on 50 in Fairfax?

Hawkmoon
July 29, 2005, 10:59 AM
Like it or not, MOST people are put off and ill at ease by being in the presence of someone openly carrying a firearm. "Why is this person armed? Is THIS place that dangerous? Is he crazy or what? Why isn't the managment doing something? I don't want to be around when he starts shooting!! My children/children/mother are frightened."
I disagree. Given that a great many people seem to believe that ordinary citizens cannot and do not carry handguns, it has been my experience that anyone who sees a person CCWing automatically assumes the CCW person is an LEO and that's the end of the matter.

(Except in Arizona, of course, where open carry is generally accepted as normal behavior.)

K-Romulus
July 29, 2005, 11:08 AM
Is this the Outback on Braddock Road? :confused: (I haven't been over that way for a while)


From the description, it seems that the manager may have been trying to be a decent guy about it by offering you the appetizer. Maybe he was told something by the owner about "what to do" concerning firearms, but was personally sympathetic to CCW/RKBA. (Yes, the appetizer may have been offered because he was "skeered" of the guy with a firearm. :rolleyes: )

He may be the manager of the joint, but the owner still pays his paycheck. You sound lucky: I have read horror stories in the VCDL weekly news about people just getting the boot from other places, with little more than a "don't let the door hit you on the way out." :mad:

I still don't get the "open carry in the restaurant" thing in VA, and I am not swayed by the arguments against CCW holders being allowed to stay concealed (surprise). I've been in PA plenty of times and no one there has ever gone nuts and shot the server . . . :rolleyes:

silverlance
July 29, 2005, 11:17 AM
aussies carried all sorts of guns until i think 2000 when in a wierd fit of remorse they banned them all and carried them all in to the incinerator.

wierd.

their neighbors in new zealand are real gun nuts though - my buddies there would get a beer and the kids, go find a nice hilltop, and blast away for about 3 hours at jackrabbits using PVC bullets!! the challenge was to get two with just one shot....

CAS700850
July 29, 2005, 11:27 AM
Hey! Stop all of this talk about requiring open carry in liquor establishments. You'll only give ideas to the idiots in Columbus, Ohio for another way to screw up the CCW laws. Bad enough you have to uncover to get in your car and cover when you get back out. (And, before anyone asks, even though I carry on a badge, not a permit, I do follow this stupid rule, figuring it will eliminate problems with any troopers I don't know who might pull me over for speeding.)

KONY
July 29, 2005, 11:34 AM
Or is it on 50 in Fairfax?

Yes, this one.

scubie02
July 29, 2005, 11:39 AM
I'd almost certainly leave too--I don't really like leaving my gun in the car, and I especially don't like it if someone has just said I have to go put it in the car, thereby announcing to all tables nearby "watch where this guy goes and you know what car you could break into to get a gun".

I never understand laws like that--like its ALOT safer to have my gun unattended in my car than on my person? Good thinking... :rolleyes:

scubie02
July 29, 2005, 11:40 AM
oh, and outback is overpriced for the quality of the food, which I have found in general to be mediocre, though I like the bloomin onions. Lots of other places these days have something similar though.

Lennyjoe
July 29, 2005, 12:13 PM
Texas Roadhouse is much better than Outback.

On that note, it must be nice to sit down and eat dinner knowing you have the tools to defend yourself or your family. In Arizona we must disarm before entering the establishment if they serve alcohol. :mad:

stevelyn
July 29, 2005, 12:34 PM
Outback....Blech :barf:

If I want a steak I'll go to Stuart Anderson's or Lone Star or just grill my own.

NineseveN
July 29, 2005, 12:37 PM
I thought Outback, Applebees and Lonestar were all owned by the same parent company?

::Edit::

Apparently they are not, I am unsure if they were at some time or not, because their foods are all similar (out here in PA anyway) and maybe that's why I thought that, but according to a paper done at Yale on Applebees, they are 3 separate entities (corporate-wise anyway, doesn't mean they're not related).

Chipperman
July 29, 2005, 12:41 PM
I eat at Outback and Roadhouse all the time, YUM to both.

Thankfully, I don't have to worry about the alcohol-serving nonsense in MA or NH where I CCW.

That's one thing I find strange. In the relatively Anti state of MA, I can carry into any bar. In many of the Pro-gun states, you cannot.

Leatherneck
July 29, 2005, 03:56 PM
but I think in this day and time, those who would support open carry in Outback (at least enough to take their $ elsewhere) are in the minority. Y'all ain't from around here, are ya? :neener:

TC

NineseveN
July 29, 2005, 04:03 PM
Leatherneck, I think part of that problem is people outside of VA or Open Carry states just don't always get it. There was a similar thread over on Glocktalk about a gentleman that was thrown out of Walmart for open carry, even though, as has been resolved a hundred tiomes before, Walmart stores are supposed to support local law. I.e., if your state is an open carry state, they are to allow it.

In VA, those who open carry do represent a "Significant" portion of the populace, and though they may not be the majority, it is VERY normal for one to carry openly there.

jason10mm
July 29, 2005, 04:09 PM
You should get about 50 or 60 similarly armed buddies and all walk in there. See if they turn you all away....

Oh, do it POLITELY, forgot that part :P

308win
July 29, 2005, 04:22 PM
Way over priced for what one gets. Another reason not to patronize.

Nicky Santoro
July 29, 2005, 04:25 PM
Outback Steakhouse in Fairfax does NOT want our money

Vote with your dollars. You did well.

Smurfslayer
July 29, 2005, 04:55 PM
f**kemfast county, VA, where this steakhouse is, you would be required to turn all your guns in for destruction and attend deprogramming classes to get you over it.

[SS] That is patently false. While you can debate open and concealed carry, there are a LOT of gun owners in Fairfax, and a LOT of them are seniors. Most of them don't make a lot of noise, but when you raise the specter of potential confiscation, I'd venture to say those seniors would put up one hell of a fight.

If you haven't seen the blog - www.bighammer.net

We've never been asked to leave anywhere. Never been targeted, never had a gun taken from us, never frightened a soul. Kony & I are getting together and he's going to let them know they're messing with Virginia and if they don't want his money... they don't want money from any of his vast network of acquaintences...

countertop
July 29, 2005, 06:07 PM
Outback=Australia=no guns

Eeer, Actually, Outback = Florida Corporation

There isn't any connection to australia - its simply a marketing theme thing.

Incidently, and I didn't make it ot he shoot last wednsday - but I seem to recall that one of the trailers in the NRA Range parking lot has an outback logo included amongst the many NRA sponsors.

JD8
July 29, 2005, 08:52 PM
They are individually marinated in tenderizer and a spice mix to hide the taste of the tenderizer and then cryovaced. They might be in that cryovac pouch for months before they get to your table. Prime aged steak needs only salt and pepper to be at its most mouthwatering tender best. Prime aged steak in a non chain steakhouse or fine dining restaurant costs the operators three times as much as the chemical suprises that you get at chain steakhouses. You MIGHT pay twice as much. As always you pay now or you pay later. I had always rather stress my wallet than my digestive tract.

This thread has turned into a bandwagon of misinformation......as an Outback employee of almost ten years (working my way through med school)... this is just false information. The steaks come in a cryovac pouch but last NOWHERE near "months" in the freezer. (Hint: Outback goes through a ton of steaks a DAY so there isn't a walk-in big enough for us to hold "months" worth of steaks) :rolleyes: Hell I've seen a Kitchen manager fired for having around $10K worth of meat a week out of date. It was subsequently thrown out. Either way it is not marinated in anything other than blood until it is opened and we then put our seasoning on it which consists of several spices most of which is pepper. Outback steaks are as a majority not "Prime" either, like most steakhouses they use Choice. Prime beef accounts for less than 2% of the nation's beef.

I'm puzzled up how the manager knew the author of this thread was carrying. Open carry?? Do people still put themselves in a tactical disadvantage like this? Oh well... Open carry politics aside.... it would be a business decision. I'm guessing he thought it would make too many of his OTHER customers feel uncomfortable. Is the fear right? Not in my mind... but business is business. A private business has the right to say no to you as you to them. Makes this country great doesn't it? Pretty sure it was up to the Proprietor as a gentlemen left a coat at my Outback in the lounge/bar area (sells more than 50% alcohol) which is technically illegal in our state and we found a snubbie and a wallet in it. We called the gentlemen and my Proprietor just simply said you might want to be more carefull. Didn't say a work about him coming into the restaurant with it.

I will say that it's not a corporate policy that I'm aware of, I've never seen or heard anything addressed on a corporate level but I'm not management.

NineseveN
July 29, 2005, 09:39 PM
JD8, Outback is a NRA sponsor, they cannot have it both ways. Politics or not, individual owner or not, the NRA or Outback needs to fix this.

You cannot use a brand name to say you are for something, and then allow others to use that brand name in an adverse way against that stance. It's bad business, and unfair to a customer.

A lot of people use certain businesses that the NRA says are okay, for any one of them to allow an individual establishment to act against a gun owner is awful and disingenuous.

That would be like an AIG office refusing to insure someone's firearms because the individual owner thinks his other customers don't like guns, or maybe he doesn't.

Randy in Arizona
July 29, 2005, 10:39 PM
mountain cowboy I think the likelihood of having to defend oneself during that 45 minute meal would be miniscule,

mountain cowboy - the problem is that you are playing "You Bet Your Life" for real! :uhoh:


Luby's (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/first100/1001214)

The fundamental reason why workplace killing sprees are allowed to progress unchecked is that there is only one gun present, that of the nutcase doing the shooting. Like the one-eyed man in the land of the blind, a lunatic with a gun in a land of unarmed people is king. Suzanne Gratia, survivor of the Luby's shooting in Texas several years ago, was the most articulate spokesperson for such thinking-- that there was one gun too few in the cafeteria that dreadful day-- but we continue to see rampages going unopposed in states like Massachusetts with strict gun control. Not so in Virginia. Luby's 2 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_152_25/ai_72293280)

JD8
July 29, 2005, 11:11 PM
JD8, Outback is a NRA sponsor, they cannot have it both ways. Politics or not, individual owner or not, the NRA or Outback needs to fix this.

Being an NRA sponsor and allowing open carry are two different things in a business owners/company's eyes I'm sure. However, I'm not going to defend the actions of the company or the owner as I'm not a part of situation or corporate policies.

To me.... carrying in a restaurant is tactically stupid. Too many people around you that know you have a weapon which are out of your view. Open carry walking a dog? Sure.... In a crowded restaurant packed with people? Just don't see it... I guess I just prefer to be concealed. YMMV.

bcurry
July 29, 2005, 11:46 PM
Quote:
I think the likelihood of having to defend oneself during that 45 minute meal would be miniscule, far, far less than the risk of getting back in that car and heading off at 55 miles per hour in traffic.

Not to seem argumentative, but weren't the folks at Luby's in Killeen, Texas probably thinking it was a nice day for a dinner and what say I leave my weapon in the car? If the right to CCW has been earned, by all means...utilize it, defend it, and support others who welcome it. Just my 2c.
Bruce

NineseveN
July 30, 2005, 12:08 AM
JB8, do you live in VA? Does your state allow Open Carry? Because, obviously you did not read, where the OP lives, the law states you must open carry in an establishment that serves alcohol...did you miss that? Now is it more tactical to open carry, or leave your gun in the car or at home? Exactly.

larry starling
July 30, 2005, 12:16 AM
Avoid all of em....Go to longhorn instead they have better quality meat and I have had nothing but excellent service from them....BTW they serve abeer and such so no ccw here in nc.... :cool:

Smurfslayer
July 30, 2005, 12:43 AM
Is it any wonder we have such a hard time?

It's company's like Outback; well - let's say the Fairfax Outback for now until we've actually determined they simply don't want our money and "allies" like ol' Jd8 here that are the very reason we have to fight so hard to make any progress at all. With friends like these...


"To me.... carrying in a restaurant is tactically stupid."

SS: That's just about every cop I know of. I thought that cops had to have college degrees around here...

I don't think anything needs to be said about the above quote, as with all we post here, it's certainly a reflection of the author.

Jason10mm - You have the right idea... I've eaten with a party of 26, over half carrying before... more than once actually. Hell... Even Champps was more than happy to have us as patrons :neener: and I've got the bill to prove it.

KONY
July 30, 2005, 12:47 AM
To me.... carrying in a restaurant is tactically stupid. Too many people around you that know you have a weapon which are out of your view. Open carry walking a dog? Sure.... In a crowded restaurant packed with people? Just don't see it... I guess I just prefer to be concealed. YMMV.

As has been said, it's the law here in VA ... so I am not sure how breaking the law would be "tactical".

mountain_cowboy
July 30, 2005, 01:24 AM
Randy in AZ, the argument that you're "playing You Bet Your Life for real," doesn't hold up. Everyone on this board does dozens of things each day that are statistically more dangerous than going into a restaurant in Fairfax, VA unarmed. The truth is: we do carry because it statistically increases our chances of self defense and ultimately our safety, but more importantly, we carry because it makes us FEEL that we're safer. I know, I carry everywhere but work. But, to think that you have to be armed because it's just too dangerous to go anywhere unarmed is ludicrous. Using that logic, we'd never leave the house, cross the street, get in a motor vehicle, smoke, drink, etc. Human life and safety does have a price, and we price it everyday, in the choices we make taking risks everyday, from the infinitesimal (ie. climbing stairs, or, I contend, going into Outback unarmed) to the severe (rock climbing or going to a gunfight unarmed). Living is a risk. There's way too many threats in life as it is. Avoid the more probable ones, don't sweat the miniscule. ;)

Edited to add: That reminds me of a post I saw a few weeks back where someone was seriously asking if others would carry if they needed to crawl up on the roof and lean out over the edge to paint the trim. If you were that worried about your life at that time, logically, you wouldn't be up on the damn roof to begin with.

KONY
July 30, 2005, 02:12 AM
Human life and safety does have a price, and we price it everyday, in the choices we make taking risks everyday, from the infinitesimal (ie. climbing stairs, or, I contend, going into Outback unarmed) to the severe (rock climbing or going to a gunfight unarmed). Living is a risk. There's way too many threats in life as it is. Avoid the more probable ones, don't sweat the miniscule.

I think some of you think my thread is about "playing the odds" ... it is much more than that ... this is about me exercising my right to bear arms. Simple and plain. Check out my Boss Spearman quote if you want the truth ... I am not going to let some restaurant owner be my modern-day "rancher".

Zundfolge
July 30, 2005, 02:34 AM
Everyone on this board does dozens of things each day that are statistically more dangerous than going into a restaurant in Fairfax, VA unarmed.
True.

However there is no logical reason to forbid law abiding gun owners from carrying at a restaurant (and frankly the VA law on this matter is just stupid ... I can understand not allowing consumption of alcohol while CCWing, but not being allowed to CCW where other people are drinking, and being required to expose you're gun in front of other people who are drinking is just stupid).

If there are other restaurant options in Fairfax that don't kick you out for packing then why not go there instead?

Also, if one stores their firearm in their car, the chances that the firearm could be stolen just increased significantly ... not my idea of "increasing public safety".

KONY
July 30, 2005, 03:02 AM
If there are other restaurant options in Fairfax that don't kick you out for packing then why not go there instead?

Agreed. This is exactly what I did. However, this deed cannot go unpunished. Best way is with our purchasing power.

countertop
July 30, 2005, 03:09 AM
I might not be with you on the gun show thing, but I am with you guys on this one.

KONY
July 30, 2005, 04:04 AM
I might not be with you on the gun show thing, but I am with you guys on this one.

LoL ... thanks. ;)

rick newland
July 30, 2005, 08:33 AM
I have been in the kitchens of two different Outbacks. That alone keeps me from ever eating in one.

albanian
July 30, 2005, 10:57 AM
"For those who aren't familiar with VA CCW policies, one must open carry when in a resaturant that serves alcohol."

That explains things. I was wondering why anyone would open carry if they didn't need to. Luckly, in Indiana we carry all our sawed off shotguns, machine guns, surpressed gun and handguns concealed. No joke, you can carry a legal sawed off shotgun or a Uzi concealed if you have the permits and paper work. It is a good thing. :D

Seriously, who open carries? If they made it a law that we had to open carry a handgun instead of concealing it, I have to admit that I would almost never carry a gun. Just being honest but I really don't want to be looked at like some sort of Cowboy.

Rebeldon
July 30, 2005, 11:03 AM
I've carried my pistol into Outback. Of course, in Florida (and in Alabama), it was concealed, so they had no idea I was carrying.

PX15
July 30, 2005, 12:06 PM
Hey, I'm as big a "gun nut" as they come, but for the life of me I just never understand why anyone (individuals/not leo's etc.) would desire to openly carry, period, much less in a family restaurant.

Most of the times when my wife and I out go to eat I am carrying.. But I am carrying concealed, and no one's the wiser, or offended, or scared, or whatever. I see the logic of concealed carry in public, I just don't see the logic of open carry in public.....

It's NOT a matter of your legal rights, it's more a matter of is "in your face" a good thing for you personally, and the rest of American firearm owners in general. Just because you and I aren't disturbed or frightened by the sight of open carry that doesn't mean that a consideral percentage of others ARE.

Sadly, but I can guarantee you 90% of the people observing a non-leo carrying openly they make one of 2 judgements, probably both wrong, but only 2 judgements.

1. The person openly carrying is "showing off", and trying to "look bad"....

2. The person openly carrying has a screw loose and they would rather be be someplace else.

That's the truth, and like it or not, the only thing you are doing is turning off people who potentially AREN'T anti-gun. We need more people who appreciate and understand our 2nd Amendment rights, we don't need to be running them off...... Even other gun owners who observe you carrying openly will be saying to themselves, "what's with that"?

If your State allows you to carry openly then obviously you are within your LEGAL rights to do so. If you enter private property and the owners ask you to please leave your firearm in your car they are within THEIR rights to do so. You are seeking confrontation by open carry, when concealed carry would provide you the same protection, without the drama.

Open carry is just dumb.
Concealed carry is smart.

I'll bet you when you left the "Outback" more customers were happy that you chose to do so than were upset you did. I think the owner was very reasonable in asking you to leave your gun in your vehicle. You just chose to be offended and make an issue of it.

I know my response isn't going to set well with those who think WE ARE WITHIN OUR RIGHTS TO OPEN CARRY, ETC., but logic and common sense have to come into play here too. I see no positives in open carry in a family restaurant unless it's in IRAQ... It's just not very smart, and the negatives outweigh the positives by a long shot.

JMOFO.
JP :D

PART 2.

And in response to the replies that you can ONLY carry "OPEN" in Virginia I say leave your firearm at home when you go to a family restaurant..... OR, leave it locked in the trunk of your vehicle while you are eating.

I do think the law is stupid, but I still think open carry is simply not necessary in an enviornment such as an Outback steak house. When's the last time a full restaurant such as the Outback was EVER robbed?

There has to be some correlation to the potential threat to the person desiring to carry and the circumstance of the time and place you wish to carry openly in. If in fact you open carry every place you go then I suggest you are going to the wrong places. I just don't think the average gunowner considers it necessary, or prudent, to open carry all over the place.

If you want to do something constructive, rather than carrying openly 24hrs a day 7 days a week, you might get together with other firearm owners and lobby for a concealed carry right.

I knew I would be taking heat from my opinion in this particular situation, but I sincerely think that anyone who feels the need to carry a firearm openly to a family restaurant is waaaayyyyy more paranoid than even I AM.....

Open carry for a non-leo in a place such as the Outback Steak house, or WalMart is simply "displaying".........

Having the legal "right" to open carry is not the same thing as using common sense in when and where to open carry. Apparently the manager of the Fairfax Outback Steakhouse had the same opinion as I do.

You are legally right to open carry in a place that sells alcoholic beverages, UNTIL the management tells you not to. Then you can exercise your right (as you did) to leave. Problem solved.

Life is too short to look for something to let something like this get you all fired up.

JMO, and as before, dissenting opinions welcomed.. :banghead:

RKCheung
July 30, 2005, 12:16 PM
PX15,

The only legal carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol in Virginia is open carry. Concealed carry is illegal.

NineseveN
July 30, 2005, 12:19 PM
PX

Again, 1. It is Virginia law to open carry in a place that serves alcohol. Again I ask, is leaving your gun in the car or at home more tactical and less stupid?

2. The most often assumption I see when people open carry is that they are an LEO. People don't go rushing to the doors, maybe in some anti-gun fanatasy, but not in the real world, not normally. of course, if one looks like a total dirt bag or dresses like a gangbanger, things tend to look bad. But hey, they were probably gonna think bad things about the person based on their appearance anyway.

And the best way to lose a right is to fail to exercise it.

thebaldguy
July 30, 2005, 12:53 PM
The worst thing you can do to a business is to NOT spend your hard earned money there. Some people will say, "oh, they only lost the business of one customer". Well, they lost his business, so they did lose. They didn't get his money that day, and probably will never get his money again. That is a loss.

By the way, I try to avoid the big chain dinner houses. I really to try to give my money to locally owned and operated bars and restaurants. I often find that the food and service is better. Also, as an ex-bartender, the secret to eating out is NOT eating out when everyone else is. Avoid the crowds on Friday and Saturday nights; go out during the week, or late afternoon on weekends. The service is better, there's no waiting, and a lot of places have specials in the off peak dining hours.

Mannlicher
July 30, 2005, 01:10 PM
I am still of the belief, that regardless of what the law states, or what signs on the door state, I am the sole arbiter of whats right for me regarding carrying a handgun. Carry concealed, and its not a problem.
A lot of us old timers carried with no permit at all for many years, before the States 'granted' us the right to protect our selves and our famlies.

Still, I agree 100% with your actions. I think you did just right when you walked out, and took your trade to another establishment. :)

Hobie
July 30, 2005, 01:21 PM
Still, I agree 100% with your actions. I think you did just right when you walked out, and took your trade to another establishment.

I agree. I am also a VCDL (http://www.vcdl.org) member. Let's get that restaurant bill passed this next session.

KONY
July 30, 2005, 01:30 PM
I agree. I am also a VCDL member. Let's get that restaurant bill passed this next session.

Now you're talking! This needs to be done.

OEF_VET
July 30, 2005, 01:43 PM
I thought Outback, Applebees and Lonestar were all owned by the same parent company?

No, they are not. Outback is owned by OSI, which also owns Carrabba's Italian Grill (which is where I work as an Asst. Kitchen Mgr), Bonefish Grill, Fleming's Steakhouse, and several other, smaller, regional operations.

As far as I know, there is no OSI corporate policy on the carrying of firearms in the restaurants. However, that is not to say the individual franchise proprietors don't have their own policy. Of course, here in TN, we can't carry into a restaurant which serves alcohol anyways.

And, on the subject of Outbacks' freshness, they are a "fresh house", as are Bonefish and Carrabba's. Nothing comes from a can. All of the sauces are prepared in house, daily. The steaks are NOT frozen. They are simply packed in their own blood in plastic bags. If you don't like meat packed in plastic with its' own blood, I'd suggest you stop buying meat at the grocery store, because it's also packed in plastic. Now, Applebee's microwaves a lot of stuff and their meat is frozen, but not OSI's subsidiaries.

Frank

JD8
July 30, 2005, 02:49 PM
JB8, do you live in VA? Does your state allow Open Carry? Because, obviously you did not read, where the OP lives, the law states you must open carry in an establishment that serves alcohol...did you miss that? Now is it more tactical to open carry, or leave your gun in the car or at home? Exactly.

Nope don't live in VA and I'm not aware of the backasswards laws there. There was so much misinformation about Outback in this thread I stopped reading the chicken little, sky is falling rhetoric to save I.Q. points. So yes I did not see that post. Glad I don't live in VA, that's all I can say. To be honest I'm going to have to disagree with you about leaving it in the car. I'd almost rather have a good knife since I'd be worried about shooting in a crowded restaurant, not to mention I can't watch everyone at once as far as my person and my weapon is concerned. YMMV.


PX15. Good posting.

And, on the subject of Outbacks' freshness, they are a "fresh house", as are Bonefish and Carrabba's. Nothing comes from a can. All of the sauces are prepared in house, daily. The steaks are NOT frozen. They are simply packed in their own blood in plastic bags. If you don't like meat packed in plastic with its' own blood, I'd suggest you stop buying meat at the grocery store, because it's also packed in plastic. Now, Applebee's microwaves a lot of stuff and their meat is frozen, but not OSI's subsidiaries.

Exactly, even the croutons are made daily. Target time from slaughter to the table is less than 3 weeks, the steaks never hit the freezer or as someone ignorantly put it, stored for months.

For those saying go to locally owned restaurants, hey I agree. I prefer mom and pop restaurants too, but usually because of the food. However on the basis that you are supposedly supporting the local economy more? No true.... Why? Because big chain restaurants consume more local services.... Floor/clean-up crews, bigger restaurants employ more people, buy/consume more local liquor, buy/consume more local produce, linen services, you should see what Outbacks spend alone on knife sharpening services, the list goes on and on. Do locally owned restaurants use some of these services? sure... but not on the scale an Outback, Lonestar, etc does. Try thinking outside the box.

Brasso
July 30, 2005, 11:18 PM
Applebee's SUCKS!. Outback is OK, I go there mainly for the blooming onion. When I want a steak and am too lazy to make it myself, I go to Longhorn.

Open carry in a bar? Had to be written by a gun-a-phobe anti. It makes no sense whatsoever.

chopinbloc
July 31, 2005, 01:39 AM
I went to their website and gave 'em a note informing them that i won't be eating there any time soon. maybe you should do the same?

Cesiumsponge
July 31, 2005, 01:52 AM
Target time from slaughter to the table is less than 3 weeks, the steaks never hit the freezer or as someone ignorantly put it, stored for months.

Though, in many higher end steak houses, they purposely age their steaks for a varying amount of time. After aging, they cut off the crusty stuff that forms from the aging process and serve the middle. It gives it a more intense and concentrated flavor. Just don't perform a cardinal sin by covering it all up with steak sauce :barf:

They are simply packed in their own blood in plastic bags.
Sounds like wet-aging to some degree (if they are vacuum packed). It'll be juicier and a bit more tender, but flavor isn't as concentrated as dry-aging.

hightech
July 31, 2005, 09:23 AM
I think we all should go live or at least vist Taurus 66. :D

Cacique500
July 31, 2005, 09:28 AM
Nope don't live in VA and I'm not aware of the backasswards laws there. There was so much misinformation about Outback in this thread I stopped reading the chicken little, sky is falling rhetoric to save I.Q. points. So yes I did not see that post. Glad I don't live in VA, that's all I can say.

:scrutiny:

FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside? I'm betting it's some bastion of freedom like the PRK, MA, NJ, IL, etc.

NineseveN
July 31, 2005, 12:41 PM
FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside? I'm betting it's some bastion of freedom like the PRK, MA, NJ, IL, etc

That's kind of what I was thinking. If I ever moved out of state, VA would be my choice. Wonderful place.

K-Romulus
July 31, 2005, 12:43 PM
:(

Zundfolge
July 31, 2005, 02:35 PM
FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside?
I guess I'm just spoiled by Colorado ... here we can carry anywhere except a select few Government buildings and anyplace with metal detectors.


So I can CCW at a restaurant that serves alcohol (heck, I can even have a drink or two as long as I stay below the legal limit ... just like driving my car).

As for Outback, I've never been impressed and have always been annoyed at the hour waits for a table (plus I grill a better steak at home ;) ).

GunGoBoom
July 31, 2005, 02:38 PM
Outback steakhouses here in central OK also do not want our business - they have up the "stupid signs" (no-gun signs, which demonstrate the owners are stupid). Interesting to know that this is controlled by the franchisee/proprietor, and not forced under the franchise contract from the corporate/franchisor. I encourage all fellow Okies to get their steaks elsewhere, and let Outback know why.

m39fan
July 31, 2005, 03:04 PM
I wouldn't feel like you are being picked on if you're a licensed citizen openly carying per your state's laws and are asked to put it away. My friends and I have gone into restaurants open carrying with OUR BADGES on or next to the holster and still been asked to put them up or leave!!!! Just chalk it up to the person being an A1 pinhead that will only pollute the gene pool until they run into the first armed violent felon..... <RANT OFF>

Take Care, Be Safe and support those who support you,
Mike

LiquidTension
July 31, 2005, 05:32 PM
In SC we can't carry in restaurants that serve alcohol anyway, but I certainly hope this isn't a corporate thing. Our Outback is really good most of the time. They're also one of the busiest ones in the company, according to the kitchen manager. Longhorn has some pretty good steaks too, but they've got nothing on my NY strip marinated in my secret sauce :neener:

ChickenHawk
July 31, 2005, 05:57 PM
So I can CCW at a restaurant that serves alcohol (heck, I can even have a drink or two as long as I stay below the legal limit ... just like driving my car). Interesting! In Texas, there is no legal minimum, meaning ANY alcohol in your blood can be argued against you even if you were defending your life.

Still, even if I lived in Colorado I think I would still practice that rule. No drinking when carrying. Even though it may be legal where you live, any alcohol in your blood if you should be unlucky enough to have to defend yourself with deadly force and you can bet the subject will come up at the trial.

Just my opinion! :rolleyes:

ChickenHawk

Smurfslayer
August 1, 2005, 09:21 AM
2 comments I've seen so far have stuck out.

1: (RE: open carry) "in your face"
2: Feeling picked on ...


WRT #1, I consider it in your face to make an issue out of people going about their own business; armed or not. If my gun does not meet with some other person's sensibilities, maybe those people ought to consider

Maybe I couldn't afford the brushed satin finish. Maybe the shark-skin leather holster was just a bit outside my price range. :mad:

So maybe those people ought to mind their own business.

As far as feeling picked on. I don't know that's it. I do know OP, and must say in addition to having very good double action trigger discipline, he's also thoughtful, intelligent, well reasoned, easy going family type guy with a good sense of humor.

I'm sure he hid his do rag & barrio colors before going into Outback :neener:

The big picture is that if we allow one restaurant to have a policy like this, we tacitly encourage others to think it's ok to do. It's not reasonable to expect to win each and every one of these situations either on site, or after the fact, but you win far more by opposing all of them vigorously, than by just chatting about it on THR...

Shovelhead
August 1, 2005, 10:57 AM
Anyone considered having a "Group Lunch" at that particular Outback?

I'm in the area and I'm up fer a steak.

dev_null
August 1, 2005, 10:59 AM
> I guess I'm just spoiled by Colorado ... here we can carry anywhere except a select few Government buildings and anyplace with metal detectors.

Now if only they would prosecute parents who kill their kids in a jealous fit. :fire:

Sportcat
August 1, 2005, 11:00 AM
Anyone considered having a "Group Lunch" at that particular Outback?

Great idea, but I'm a few hours away.

LynnMassGuy
August 1, 2005, 11:06 AM
FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside? I'm betting it's some bastion of freedom like the PRK, MA, NJ, IL, etc.

Hmmmm. I'll be the first to admit MA general gun laws, especially ones affected by our Attorney General are out of wack but our CCW laws are really not that bad unless you know something that I'm not aware of.

On the rare ocasion that I go to the Outback I carry concealed. That's not very often because we have places like The Beverly Depot, The Hardcover, and the Stockyard.

Regards
John

misANTHrope
August 1, 2005, 01:02 PM
Anyone considered having a "Group Lunch" at that particular Outback?

I'm in the area and I'm up fer a steak.

Well, it'd have to be a "Group Dinner" since we're not open for lunch. :D

If I wasn't in NC, I'd join you. :D

mmike87
August 1, 2005, 01:18 PM
KONY - good for you. I have not been asked to leave mine in the car, yet, while open carrying in Virginia per state law, however I am prepared to do so. I told my wife this as well, and she at least says she'll be OK with it.

Hit em where it hurts - the bottom line. :)

mmike87
August 1, 2005, 01:22 PM
FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside? I'm betting it's some bastion of freedom like the PRK, MA, NJ, IL, etc.

The stupid restaurant carry laws being the exception.

JD8
August 1, 2005, 01:33 PM
FYI, Virginia has some of the best CCW laws in the U.S. And just where do you reside? I'm betting it's some bastion of freedom like the PRK, MA, NJ, IL, etc.

Maybe in your mind.... so this will HAVE to be your little secret. In my state you can carry concealed in a restaurant so long as it's not technically a bar, or rather more than 50% of it's sales not being alcohol. Open carry in a true bar would be beyond stupid to me. ASSuming where I live doesn't make you or your laws any look better.

Outback steakhouses here in central OK also do not want our business - they have up the "stupid signs" (no-gun signs, which demonstrate the owners are stupid). Interesting to know that this is controlled by the franchisee/proprietor, and not forced under the franchise contract from the corporate/franchisor. I encourage all fellow Okies to get their steaks elsewhere, and let Outback know why.

This is VERY interesting to me, since I know for a fact a majority of the stores in Oklahoma do NOT have these signs up.....in fact of the Edmond, 3 OKC stores and Norman I have no idea which one you are talking about, which Outback are you refering to? Quit spreading ignorance by punishing a vast majority by the actions of a few. If you know of an Outback that has that sign up then don't go there, but Outback leaves certain decisions up to it's proprietors. God forbid an individual owner has the right to run it as he pleases without corporate dictating what he does.

HankB
August 1, 2005, 01:39 PM
Interesting! In Texas, there is no legal minimum, meaning ANY alcohol in your blood can be argued against you even if you were defending your life.Establishments that make 51% of their money by the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-site consumption are off-limits for licensed concealed carry, but ordinary restaurants that happen to serve liquor (like Outback) are OK. IIRC the TX concealed carry law prohibits licensed carry "while intoxicated" without actually defining what constitutes intoxication. The assumption among many is that the 0.08% blood alcohol limit for driving a motor vehicle would apply, but AFAIK this assumption has not been tested in court.

I can see that some DAs (particularly the party animal in Austin, who hates Texas' CHL law) would argue that the merest trace constitutes "intoxication."

However, I note that there is no "implied consent" law other than for driving a vehicle, so it would seem that providing proof of your intoxication in such an instance would be purely voluntary . . . and who in his right mind would volunteer?

The Drew
August 1, 2005, 01:40 PM
I can CCW all but a few select places here in PA, none of them include either restaurants or bars...

That being said, were you sitting in a booth or at a table? I assume you were seated before being asked to leave. So If that were the case why not sit in a booth with your gun facing to the inside? that way only the people who saw on the way in could see that you are carrying. Maybe this is something to take into consideration in the future as to avoid the scene of being asked to leave an establishment with unknown gun policies...

GunGoBoom
August 1, 2005, 01:51 PM
Well, JD8, I'm not spreading ignorance; I'm spreading truth, as every Outback I've been to (or attempted to go to) had the signs up, including the one at I240 and Penn, and the one at I40 and Merdian - that's what, 2/3rds of the Outbacks in the metro, or 1/2? In any event, a very significant number. (I'm not counting Norman as 'metro'). The proprietor can do whatever in the hell they feel like (not saying they can't), and we as CCW owners can too, by not patronizing those who disarm the law-abiding, while letting the criminals go about armed. You are just wrong if you're claiming that the signs aren't there - they are, but you just apparently haven't seen them - they are rather small, but they are on the entrance doors. I understand you have some love for the place - don't blame ya; it's fantastic food, but the fact is that the proprietors are mostly anti-gun, and if one gives 2 craps about putting their money where their mouth is, they'll get their food from one of the other 283579028 restaurants in the city - Outback and City Bites are about the ONLY restaurants left that persist in having the stupid signs up - they must be punished for that, in my view.

JD8
August 1, 2005, 02:38 PM
Well, JD8, I'm not spreading ignorance; I'm spreading truth, as every Outback I've been to (or attempted to go to) had the signs up, including the one at I240 and Penn, and the one at I40 and Merdian - that's what, 2/3rds of the Outbacks in the metro, or 1/2? In any event, a very significant number. (I'm not counting Norman as 'metro'). The proprietor can do whatever in the hell they feel like (not saying they can't), and we as CCW owners can too, by not patronizing those who disarm the law-abiding, while letting the criminals go about armed. You are just wrong if you're claiming that the signs aren't there - they are, but you just apparently haven't seen them - they are rather small, but they are on the entrance doors. I understand you have some love for the place - don't blame ya; it's fantastic food, but the fact is that the proprietors are mostly anti-gun, and if one gives 2 craps about putting their money where their mouth is, they'll get their food from one of the other 283579028 restaurants in the city - Outback and City Bites are about the ONLY restaurants left that persist in having the stupid signs up - they must be punished for that, in my view.

The Proprietors there aren't anti-gun so once again stop assuming and spreading ignorance...... I took one of them to H&H oh... about 3 weeks ago. Can't say much about the I-240 store.... haven't been there in a few months. Don't remember seeing the Meridian one but I'll take your word for it. Regardless that's 2 out of 7 stores in Central Ok and the other 3 Tulsa stores don't have them. You're exaggerating a point if you believe that these Outbacks and City Bites are the only restaurants in OKC that have these signs up. In fact.... I've seen 3 in the past week at other reataurants one of which is a "local" chain.

ChickenHawk
August 1, 2005, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by HankB
The assumption among many is that the 0.08% blood alcohol limit for driving a motor vehicle would apply, but AFAIK this assumption has not been tested in court. Nice post, HankB! But, you are exactly correct that the driving blood alcohol limit is assumed to be the CHL limit by most. However, there is no codified limit. In court, that's what will likely count.

I only make the point because my last CHL renewal instructor (who is a sherrif and Leo handgun insrtructor as well) made this point very clearly to us. This guy was extremely pro-carry ("How many of you don't carry all the time ... well, WHY NOT??"), but he very clear on the no-alcohol point when carrying.

Doesn't seem worth the risk to me. I can drink at home.

Regards,
ChickenHawk

roo_ster
August 1, 2005, 03:43 PM
Outback Restaurants:
I have always enjoyed good food & good service. --Yum, yum!-- If a particular Outback does not support RKBA, treat it like a leper.

I must admit I don't frequent them much at home, as there are a bunch of good local staekhouses. I generally hit them when on the road & my company is paying.

Drinking:
It is the rare outing where I will have a drink, anymore. I still love a good beer*, but I'd rather have 100% of my wits about me when out on the town in DFW. I drink at home or at friends' homes.

* Life is too short to drink cheap beer, especially if you don't drink too much.

Andrew Rothman
August 1, 2005, 03:58 PM
Someone convince me that the industrial strength tenderizers quit working when you bite into the steak!! Think about that one for a minute.

Okay. :D

First, it's been argued here that Outback doesn't use the stuff, but if they did...

Restaurant steak tenderizer is made with Papain, a naturally-occurring enzyme.

Papain, the proteolytic enzyme from the fruit of carica papaya, is a potent digestant of nonviable protein matter but is harmless to viable tissue.
- http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/papain_cp.htm

In fact, in its pharmacological form, it's used to treat wounds:
ACCUZYME is indicated for debridement of necrotic tissue and liquefication of slough in acute and chronic lesions such as pressure ulcers, varicose and diabetic ulcers, burns, postoperative wounds, pilonidal cyst wounds, carbuncles and miscellaneous traumatic or infected wounds.
- http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic2/papain_ids.htm

Gross, huh?

But it is safe for your tummy, assuming that there's any enzymatic action left after "treating" your steak.

(If you want to know way too much about meat tenderizers, visit http://www.enzymedevelopment.com/html/applications/protein.html)

Andrew Rothman
August 1, 2005, 04:04 PM
Quit spreading ignorance by punishing a vast majority by the actions of a few. If you know of an Outback that has that sign up then don't go there, but Outback leaves certain decisions up to it's proprietors.

JD8, you are new here, but you may notice that most folks proceed here in a mannerly way. Please try to fit in in that respect.

I think that it's perfectly appropriate to apply pressure to the national HQ for the foolish actions of their owned or franchised locations.

Voting with our voices and our dollars is a key component of free markets.

JD8
August 1, 2005, 04:29 PM
JD8, you are new here, but you may notice that most folks proceed here in a mannerly way. Please try to fit in in that respect.

Sorry but someone is making a blanket statement that is ignorant of the proprietor's disposition that I happen to know personally, whom just donated a good amount to Ted Nugent's Kamp for Kids is being called anti-gun. I see use for the term. Ignorant means by webster's definition "lacking knowledge of the thing specified, Unaware, Uninformed." I believe this fits. I know for a fact that one of these guys hunts and hits the range. Once again I can't speak for one of the seven stores but the original author called for a denouncing of all central Oklahoma stores. If you're going to spread information that involves someone else's livelihood then make sure it is specific, accurate and true.

Once again if someone sees a request sign on an Outback by all means.... walk away, but it is being touted as a vast majority here in Central Oklahoma which is not true.

MICHAEL T
August 1, 2005, 04:58 PM
Lets just do what the anti gun folks do. All Out Back Steak Houses are bad and need to be advoided by any gun owner. No matter its location. Their are many other places where we can spend our money. There, Problem solved. :D
I think their food is so-so and cost way to much anyway.

Why don't you 2 OK people meet up and visit all the Out Backs in OKC area and find what is what. . My self only place I ever ate at in OKC was the old 76 now TA truck stop. Food and service were terrible. But was a fuel stop and didn't want to stop twice.

chopinbloc
August 2, 2005, 11:29 PM
reply from outback to the letter i sent, seems a human actually read it. my letter is at the bottom. i took the liberty of referring to kony as "a good friend of mine" i hope he won't mind.

G'day Mr. Betts



Thank you for taking the time to contact Outback Steakhouse, Inc. We

appreciate you bringing to our attention the problems you have

encountered. Please know that you, as a guest, are our first priority.

As a company, we are committed to exceeding our guest’s expectations. Your

dining experience should be a great one.



We have forwarded your comments to the Regional Manager who oversees the

restaurant in which you dined. The Regional Manager will then contact

the restaurant and your comments will be addressed within a 24 hour period.



Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us. We value your patronage

and hope to maintain your confidence in our restaurants.



Your friends at Outback Steakhouse





Sherri Jones

Outback

2202 No. West Shore Blvd

Tampa, Florida 33607

813-282-1225

sherrijones@outback.com









-----Original Message-----
From: news@outback.com [mailto:news@outback.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 12:28 AM
To: News Outback
Subject: Comment from the outback.com website



From: andrew betts, on 7/31/2005 12:28:06 AM



Address:

City:

State:

Zip:

Day Phone:



Email: andrew.betts@us.army.mil



Comments:

A good friend recently informed me through an online forum that he had a

bad experience at one of your Fairfax, VA restaraunts. It seems that the

owner(?) "Joey" informed my friend that he could not bring a firearm into

the store. My friend is a law abiding citizen with a valid carry permit.

He decided to leave for another restaraunt where he had a more pleasant

experience. I understand that political views vary and in a corporation as

large as yours it is difficult to exert much control over some zealous

people, but I have decided not to patronize any of your restaraunts until

this situation is rectified and many others who heard of the incident have

decided the same. I just thought you should know that policies like that

can cause a loss of business. Thank you for your time.

mmike87
August 2, 2005, 11:49 PM
That being said, were you sitting in a booth or at a table? I assume you were seated before being asked to leave. So If that were the case why not sit in a booth with your gun facing to the inside? that way only the people who saw on the way in could see that you are carrying. Maybe this is something to take into consideration in the future as to avoid the scene of being asked to leave an establishment with unknown gun policies...

That's what I do. Openly carry - but sit "gun-in" in the booth. In all seriousness, sitting "gun in" is probably better for weapon retention, anyway.

I don't try and hide it, but I don't go out of my way to let everyone see it, either.

pete f
August 3, 2005, 02:38 AM
I have a simple question, what possible advantage or political purpose was served by requiring open carry in a bar or serving resturant?
this seems less to be a question of Outbacks error than the error of the enabling legislation.

Smurfslayer
August 3, 2005, 09:03 AM
I'm glad they responded...

MMike87: Remember the law (and court decisions interpreting it) say that you are concealing if you are "hiding from common observation". That's not all observation, but I'd bet money that eventually somebody is going to be charged for exactly this. Think about it, you know people can't see the gun if you sit gun in intentionally...

Pete f: The 'purpose' of the law? to suppress the "evil practice" of carrying concealed weapons, but for the privileged few. When you carry concealed in all but AK & VT, you are doing so on the privilege of a permit. When you open carry in Virginia (and other states with similar RKBA protections) you are carrying on the basis of your right to bear arms guaranteed in our constitution. They knew this when they debated it in '95. They've thrown it back in our faces every year since "These people can still open carry, there's no reason to allow concealed in <insert liberals favorite prohibited places here> .

NineseveN
August 3, 2005, 12:18 PM
Sorry but someone is making a blanket statement that is ignorant of the proprietor's disposition that I happen to know personally, whom just donated a good amount to Ted Nugent's Kamp for Kids is being called anti-gun. I know for a fact that one of these guys hunts and hits the range.

Not to start an argument, but you know that Diane Feinstein carries a gun, right? Just because people own guns, go to the range, hunt or send money to Ted Nugent doesn’t mean their anti-positions on gun and carry laws is any less contemptuous.

In fact, it makes it worse really. Again, this is just my opinion, but if that owner is so pro-gun and pro-2A rights, why would he put up a sign like that? Oh, I see, it's okay for him to carry, just not anyone else when they're in his store. Wow, sounds real pro 2A there.

Ted Kennedy's body guards carry guns I am sure.

Criminals carry guns and shoot at the range, but I bet they're mostly against concealed carry and gun ownership in general.

Not that your friend is anything like those people, but he is making an attempt to limit the rights of a private citizen by disarming them if they choose to come into his store. and that's fine, his choice, not a thing wrong with it, except it does not coincide with the actions of a strong 2A supporter.


Do us a favor, ask him why he has the sign up? I guess one of us could call and ask him, because I find it really disturbing that someone that donates to Ted Nugent would put up a sign like that. What kind of message does that send?

::Edit:: I may have misunderstood, read down a little before you freak please. :(

misANTHrope
August 3, 2005, 01:08 PM
Maybe I'm misinterpreting here, but I gathered that the proprietor JD8 mentioned did not have a sign on his store. Remember this all stemmed from someone saying that all the Outbacks he'd been to in his town had signs up, and he said that was probably 1/2-2/3 of the stores. There's a significant unknown area there. Now if the guy is a shooter and also has the signs up- then by all means, steer clear. But no one's made it clear that that is the case here.

As for me- well, in NC we can't carry in an establishment where alcohol is bopth sold and consumed, so it's a moot point. Ya either disarm or ya play the odds- or you could also play the odds with open carry and NC's vague "armed to the terror of the public" law.

NineseveN
August 3, 2005, 02:47 PM
Actually, misANTHrope, I think you might be right on the money. I think I misread that particular post. While it's not specifically clear, I think I see it now. That's what I get for trying to multi-task I suppose.

Sorry folks, Im just not perfect today. :o

Smurfslayer
August 4, 2005, 03:58 PM
I just talked to both the regional, and restaurant managers. An unequivocal, unwavering no guns allowed, period. Not just this Outback, but all in northern Virginia.

Ol' Badger
August 4, 2005, 04:01 PM
Logans in Sterling has better stakes anyhow! I like to throw the peanut shells on the floor too.

Plus no one bothered my when I used my Delica to cut up my 20 once T-Bone.

NineseveN
August 4, 2005, 04:13 PM
I am assuming many of here are NRA members. If outback is indeed tied to the NRA through some business deal, a letter campaign to the NRA is in order, as well as to the corporate side of Outback.

Smurfslayer
August 5, 2005, 08:49 AM
I wasn't able to find mention of them on the NRA's website one way or the other.

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