This is an open discussion of any firearms you would feel compelled to have if and when SHTF. For example if China invades, roving packs of zombies takes over your hometown, or the US turns into a MAD MAX wasteland. Whatever the reason for your preparation what would be your choices whether a full auto AR-15 to a single action colt .38 blackpowder Navy model, it doesn't matter its your preference! It has always been the philosophy of my WW2 veteran grandpa who passed this philosophy on to me that the best gun for you is the one you shoot the best and has proven its worth to you.
Me I would feel very comfortable with my dad's M1 Garand...its reliable, powerful and I am very intuned with it plus I'm able to shoot it with great accuracy. My sidearm would be my trusty HK USP fullsize .45. It has well over 2000 rounds through it and still functions flawlessly despite the comment that I was told that it would break on me within 100 rounds :cuss:
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July 28, 2005, 11:32 PM
In all honesty if it's your basic end of the world type think I would think a good .22 rifle would make for a decent all purpose firearm. Maybe an AR15/AK, full caliber handgun and a .22 handgun instead.
I would be more concerned about simple survival and less about kicking but in combat as I would likely be killed quickly.
If we are talking true fantasy then I would have to go with 16 inch AR 15 but I would add a Trijicon ACOG or other non battery operated optic. I would most likely take my GP100 for a sidearm with a box of ammo/speed strips/loaders so I had a firearm not dependent on magazines and I would throw my Ruger Mark IIGC with three magazines and a brick of .22 for quiet use/small game etc.
July 28, 2005, 11:41 PM
Fantasy? M79 with lotsa rounds.....or a street-sweeper loaded with slugs (now, if they bring in salt, then that's a problem :( :p )
Realistic (from what I've got)--probably my SKS and my .22LR snubbie. That, and have my pals carry my .22 and my Saiga .308....while one carries the ammo and my .410 shotgun. As far as the extent of combat, I'd expect maybe taking on a few goblins/chinese, then running away (if chinese, then I'd take the weapons off their corpses....because FA would be nice once they withdraw :neener: ). Oh well, to each their own.
July 29, 2005, 12:03 AM
Any reason this is in the Handgun forum? :confused:
Total collapse of civilization:
Crosman 1377. Nothin' like carrying 20,000 rounds in your backpack, still have room for other supplies, and able to take down small game for yourself. Stay away from people as it's no good in a self-defense role.
My SAR-1. Rugged, reliable, and decently powered.
MG3 with a couple truckloads of ammo, spare parts, and barrels. :)
July 29, 2005, 12:22 AM
What an original question jk. I still love it. I would probably go with my GP 100 and Rossi 357 lever action. Very versital combo, easy to carry, reliable and no magazines to lose.
July 29, 2005, 12:30 AM
Honestly, if this is gonna be the last two firearms I'm gonna carry around without any resources, I'd pick something that would last without much maintenance.
This would mean my pistol most likely would be polymer.HK USP in .45 would do well. I'd love to have a Colt Government, but I think eventually it'd rust.
Rifle would be an AR-15. Just cuz I live in California and fantasize about one. Its all make believe so thats what I want. :D
July 29, 2005, 12:45 AM
Fantasy is the Dragunov carbine with non electronic sights, CZ 75 FA in 40 with super hi cap mags....
Right now my HDR is a Mosin M38, and my trusty never rusty CZ 75 PO1.
July 29, 2005, 01:03 AM
My winchester m1 carbine, good for two and four legged critters, and either my hk usp 45 fullsize since i have combat classes with it, or my g17
wizard of oz
July 29, 2005, 04:49 AM
SHTF or reality, the minimum needed to do everything that you can do with a firearm is..
rimfire rifle or handgun
July 29, 2005, 05:06 AM
If the SHTF, I won't be reaching for a handgun :evil:
July 29, 2005, 10:45 AM
Well since this is in the Handgun forum I would say a pair of Glock 19 with G18 mags for fighting the zombies while keeping reloads to minimum. When ammo becomes tight have a Glock 33 with a G27 barrel as well as a 9mm conversion barrel. That way you can use 3 types of ammo and five types of magazine sizes.
July 29, 2005, 01:41 PM
I've never posted to a zombie/end of world thread before, but what the hey.
Zombies: I'd want a semi-auto carbine with low recoil, quick follow-up, and a good optic. It could just be a pistol round if all I need are zombie head shots at closer range, otherwise I suppose something like a .30 carbine or .223 so I could lug plenty of ammo. Heck a Kel-Tec SUB 200 or Beretta Storm would work.
July 29, 2005, 03:13 PM
July 29, 2005, 04:01 PM
General Electric Chain Gun, caliber not important.
July 30, 2005, 01:02 AM
"...I don't want no teenage queen, I just want my M14.."
July 30, 2005, 01:26 AM
Model 10 Smith and my trusty old Marlin Model 60.
July 30, 2005, 01:45 AM
My Romanian AK clone and Glock 20. If I could, I would opt for a select fire Krebs AK or that custom 19" DSA FAL I have been dreaming of building and the Glock 20. In either case, I would want a .40 S&W barrel for the Glock because .40 ammo is a little more common than 10mm.
July 30, 2005, 08:20 AM
General Electric Chain Gun, caliber not important.
+1. But I want it mounted on a helo.
AR15 and a 1911. I'd take my G17 as well for a loner pistol, not to mention it may come in handy if the ANG would be kind enough to drop us some ammo.
July 30, 2005, 09:44 AM
Since long distance shots are not important, i'd leave the FAL and go with the AK. For up close and personal trench type encounters, a 1911.
July 30, 2005, 01:58 PM
Well I'm going to take a differant approach. I'd take a 4 man team (friends gotta watch each others back dont they ;) ) One could carry a 97 trench gun, another with an SKS, the third would be carrying a Thompson M1 subgun for those up close and personal moments, and I would have a 91/30 sniper, so the chinese wouldn't even be able to see me while they drop like flies :D Oh and for pistols we would all carry government model 1911 in .45ACP.
July 30, 2005, 10:06 PM
My M1A :evil: (maybe my PTR-91 if I can get the brass flying into my face problem sorted out) For my Wife, the M4gery. ;)
My sidearm would be my Glock 34, and a Benelli M1 Super 90 slung across my back!
July 31, 2005, 06:18 AM
Hmm, you gave a few different scenarios and really what I'd pick would be largely dependent on the scenario.
For general societal collapse where life goes on relatively normally but there is no real law to speak of my choice would be different from large scale riots, large scale organized anarchy, combat, or whatever else. Life goes on relatively normally and we can stay in our homes I'd basically be set up as I am now for HD but the AR and 6 mags would likely be added to the always loaded list.
For societal collapse where you are on the run I have a few thoughts. While a shotgun makes a lot of sense in many respects as it is so versatile with different loadings (slugs for distance, 00 buck for short range defense, and with different loadings it is good for pretty much any game in N. America) I think I'd stay away due to the ammo actually being pretty bulky and limiting the number of rounds. For my long gun it would depend upon whether it appeared more likely to need defense against individuals or very small groups or if it was larger groups (also, am I teamed up with others who are also armed). For simplicity and reliability I'd strongly consider my Winchester 94 in 30-30 or my .45LC Win 94 (though I'd prefer .44mag or .357mag for serious work over the .45LC since .45LC isn't quite as reliable out of a rifle). However, if serious combat was likely (against untrained roving bands) I'd probably either go with my SKS (reliable and durable) or my AR (more rounds). If I didn't need to go with what I currently own it would be between the lever rifle or an M1 Garand or M1A. The pistol would probably be my Taurus PT140 Millennium Pro (100% reliable to date) for when I want to be discrete backed with either S&W 65LS or 6" S&W 57 (hey, society has collapsed, I don't think I need to worry about MD's carry laws, or probably even keeping it concealed). If I didn't need to go with what I currently own the PT140 would probably be replaced with a Kimber Pro Carry or CDP Pro (1911 types have plenty of spare parts available so it would be possible to carry parts to fix nearly anything that might go wrong, and 1911s are easier for more people to work on).
For combat against the Chinese Army my choices would be much different. The semi-trained "insurgents" in Iraq do best when they stick to IEDs or potshots at our troops, when they stand and fight they get cut down like firewood. While the Chinese aren't up to US military standards, they are good and I haven't seen military training for over a decade and a half now. Standing and fighting would be suicide. I think it would be more effective for groups of Americans to act as snipers/sharpshooters. Especially in urban areas. For my handgun I'd probably go with the Taurus PT 140 M. Pro or Taurus 85 (highly concealable). For my long gun I'd prefer a very accurate bolt rifle or single shot if in the country (long-range accurate, possible to be passed off as a hunter). Since I don't have one now, if I had to go with what I owned and I would do rural sharpshooting I'd either go with my 30-30 lever rifle (give up a lot in long-range accuracy, but very easy to pass off as a hunter) or my AR (get back the accuracy, but better not get caught). For urban use I'd probably go with a .22lr rifle- it will kill and it is much more quiet than a centerfire thus making detection less likely. Well enough hidden I might go with the same as the rural rifles. In all cases, I'd limit myself to one shot so it would be harder to detect my location.
July 31, 2005, 06:59 AM
I wouldnt mind using my Mini-14, but ide rather have some of those polymer magazines than my crap-o ones. Plus a small 4x or 6x scope.
If i couldnt have that my mauser would do well, i like that thing alot.
Then my nifty little .22 pump action. Light but as accurate as they come, and very durable.
So, realisticly, ide carry the mini-14 for defense and the very occasional larger game, and the .22 for small game.
The mauser is just to heavy and long when i really dont need that much firepower.
Fantasy would be a CX4 storm in .40...
Or actually an MP5 in 10mm owuld be nice too.
Or maybe a P90 and FN57....
July 31, 2005, 10:32 AM
Since this end of the world stuff is a fantasy. . .
I'll take a matching pair of 6.5" model 29s, a shorty SxS 12-gauge, a flame thrower,
July 31, 2005, 12:36 PM
Colt SP1 CAR-15
Several Colt and Springfield 1911-A1s
an assortment of .357 revolvers.
July 31, 2005, 02:02 PM
Ok...I'll play, and, I can grab everything I need out of the trunk of my car or my gun safe right now:
I see a combination of urban warfare and maybe some open range fighting mixed with a rare, though deadly, close up encounter.
My Remington 11-87 Police. 20" barrel and rifle sights and as much 00 buck and Sabot Slugs as I can carry. Great for repelling boarders, holding the fort, door to door fighting. What someone thinks is cover becomes merely concealment if I'm shooting slugs. (If you haven't played much with the new generation of Sabot Slugs, give them a try, just tremendous penetration)
My AR-15 M4 with ACOG Compact sight mounted and, again, as much .223 as I can carry.
A pair of Govt Models or Browning Hi-Powers. Like the stopping power of the .45, easier to carry more 9 mm ammo....dice toss. Two so I can arm a friend if need be.
A Ruger 10-22.
August 2, 2005, 03:56 AM
AK in .223 and a BHP... very reliable and you can carry a lot of ammo. Shotguns are great for zombies but the ammo weighs a lot. :D
August 2, 2005, 04:14 AM
Uum, I guess I will also use what I got:
Kimber Raptor II with eight magazines.
Colt AR-15 16" Match Target H-BAR competition with a Bushnell HOLO-sight
mounted on the rail of a Calvary Arms mount, with detachable carry handle
and a four position collaspsible stock in .223 :uhoh: One 30 round mag, +
2-20 rounders. :)
12 GA Remington 870 Marine Magnum stoked with 3" magnum 00
You think I'd be ready for a SHTF scenario? :neener:
August 2, 2005, 03:07 PM
New to the Rifle/Shotgun scene, and just a relatively new shooter, but here's what I'd pick right now.
Revolver- up reliable, can't beat the good ol' SW 10, I like the 38 spl.
Maybe even a couple, very easy to operate and handle, just give one to a friend/whatever and say the button opens the cylinder.
Rifle- From what I've heard it's hard to beat an ar-15/m4 here. I'd have to go m4 with plenty of magazines with some optics that can be taken on/off easy.
Shotgun- Not the best for carrying around with you, but what better to 'hold down the fort' with? Most confrontations at your 'base' will most likely be shotgun range (if you bug out to a forest or such). Probably a Mossberg 590. Maybe evenbag some deer with this to.
Of course toss in a .22 rifle for small game and such.
August 2, 2005, 03:20 PM
Yep, I'd live on a mountain top with Hudson. Maybe not Yancy - she is rather erratic personally.
Gun - oh yeah - forgot about that. VEPR AK and a bizillons rounds of 7.62x39.
August 2, 2005, 03:54 PM
Shotguns are great for zombies but the ammo weighs a lot
Meh, weight never concerns me. I've shouldered back packs full of shotgun shell and 54R before. Weight about 50lbs, maybe more. Never bothered me. Of course I go to the gym :neener:
August 2, 2005, 04:05 PM
let's move this to GENERAL...
August 2, 2005, 04:39 PM
Zombies? When on patrol id carry -
-remington 870 - 20" rifle sighted barrel - 00buck and slugs
-S&W 686 6" - 3 full moon clips of .357 mag - 18 extra bullets
-S&W Sigma VE - Two High cap .40 mags - 28 extra bullets
Invasion hmmmmm, id have to load up a friend too. I live in phoenix so my setup from above would probably still be good.
Me - Same as above Plus backup ammo for friend, prolly .223.
Friend - Glock 9mm, two high caps, extra rounds
-M14 - lotsa ammo!
This is only using things we own.
August 2, 2005, 04:42 PM
Assuming I survive the initial SHTF event, and I am not immediately called to military service, and I have a place to go hide, and I have a way to get there, and I can safely store my weapons and ammo at the hide site or move them there, and I can gather my family, and I'd prefer not to stick around and try to help rebuild civilization....
I have a family of three. Wife and daughter are both reasonably accomplished shooters. My solution:
2x intermediate-powered semiauto rifles for defense (anything from SKS through AR15 is fine, but they should be the same in the event parts need to be cannibalized)
1x full-power scoped bolt action rifle for taking large game and “designated marksman” role in a fight
1x Remington 870 12 gauge for winged game and in-house defense
1x scoped .22 for small game
3x handguns (anything from medium-frame .38s on up, but they should be the same in the event parts need to be cannibalized)
In a fight, two family members would use the semiauto rifles, with the best shooter using the bolt gun. This basic battery can be expanded on a per-person basis by adding one semiauto rifle and one handgun.
I’d want to store at least 400 rounds for the semiauto rifles, 200 for the bolt gun (mix of ball and HP), 5000 .22 (could be good for barter if necessary), 250 birdshot, 25 buckshot, and 300 handgun rounds. Military or other common calibers are easier to buy in quantity at reasonable prices. As an aside, lots of people choose military calibers on the theory that military ammo will be easy to find in the aftermath of an event. I am unconvinced. I seriously doubt my own National Guard unit will be roaming the countryside dispensing largesse in the form of ammunition, if the SHTF. (Humanitarian rations? Sure. Ammo? Step away from the crack pipe.)
This little battery could be put together fairly inexpensively if shopping is done carefully. With surplus SKS rifles, a used or Wal-Mart special bolt gun, and used S&W M10 revolvers, it could be done for probably under $1500 (before tax, ammo, and accessories).
I might also consider adding a .50 caliber muzzleloading rifle and the formula for black powder for an absolute worst-case scenario.
August 2, 2005, 04:50 PM
First, you have to feed the guns, so I'd want the most common calibers for ease of scrounging:
should be in the greatest supply.
from there, I'd go beretta or glock for handgun, mini-14/AR for general purpose, and a .308 bolt gun for longer shots.
August 2, 2005, 05:01 PM
a few .357 revo's around. 870 or mossberg pump shotty and or m14 style rifle.
Too Many Choices!?
August 2, 2005, 05:04 PM
2 shots in 1 second, into a 6 inch circle off-hand at 100yds, has got to have some kind of advantage. Carrying ~300 rounds in 10 mags(some downloaded for "tactical reloads") weighs next to nothing when compared to the M14 and shotgun with a similar load. What is that quote again? Oh yeah,something to the effect of," Quantity has a quality all it's own" :o
Remember these will not be perfect conditions...Moving targets, adreniline dump, fatigue, and many other stressors will affect your hit probablility. If I have a 25% hit ratio with my 300 rounds, that only gives me 75 hits, of which only a few would POSSIBLY be ,"Instant one shot stops" :uhoh:. So quantity is most definitely a benefit...
Of course this is all contingent on my ablility to fire off all 300 of my rounds before becoming a variable in someone else's 25% hit ratio :uhoh: ...
Sidearm would have to be my Glock 23 in .40 with 2, 10 round mags and 2, 15 round mags for a total of 350 rounds that is ,"Rapid-aimed fire friendly" and easily man portable...
August 2, 2005, 05:04 PM
Out of my collection I'd stick with my Henry Lever .22 for survival and my M48 for large game / zombie head busting
Why all the handguns? As the old saying goes, "a pistol is what you use to fight your way to a gun." If I've got time to select a weapon or two for a SHTF scenario, I'm sure not gonna bother with handguns. I'm taking a centerfire rifle for sure. If I'm staying put, a 12 gauge pump shotgun would be my second choice. My third choice would be a .22 rimfire rifle for small game.
August 2, 2005, 06:14 PM
I think it depends on the scenario. If its Mutant Ninja Zombie Bear Apocalypse, I'm going into survival mode and heading for the mountains with my model 94 in .44mag and my .44mag ruger. If China invades, I'm going offensive and I think it'd change to my 1911 and my scoped 300 win mag.
Too Many Choices!?
August 2, 2005, 06:58 PM
A pistol has it's place. Like when the rifle runs out of ammo/ breaks(murphy anyone?), effectively becoming dead weight(pun intended). How about in VERY TIGHT spaces, like a tunnel or hallway...
Eqzet, I am almost 100% sure that all of us here know not to bring a pistol to a Rifle fight... However, there is one rule that trumps even this one......Don't go to a gun fight, without A GUN :uhoh: ;) . My ammo and guns weigh much less than 20pounds, so looks like I will be good to go with 30+ pounds of supplies(10-15lbs water depending on availability + supplies+toys) :evil: !
SheepDog, Drooooooool :), but too much gun for me in a shoot and scoot situation...
August 2, 2005, 07:58 PM
SheepDog, Drooooooool , but too much gun for me in a shoot and scoot situation...
Old pic. That's my patrol rifle...now has an Acog, different stock. And you're right, it is a alot of gun, but it's what I train with 99% of the time. Plus it gives me what I feel is the combination of precision long-rifle or mag-dump keep-heads down while we E&E. Only thing it's missing now is a can...freakin ATF.
Wife's SHTF gun is an Oly/PAWS RR w/16" upper, Acog and can. And yes, she's good enough to use it.
August 2, 2005, 08:16 PM
Well, As to what I have for if it were to happen NOW..... I have my reliable Winchester Model 94, 30/30. And as my side arm, I have my Springfield Armory XD-40 with 3 13round mags. :( I know that it's not much, but I'd hope that it would get me to the local Wal-Mart. :evil:
Until I can get a better job, I'd just have to stick with what I've got and make my shots count.
If I had what I WANTED..... :rolleyes:
One AR-15 with the sight system that want. (I don't know what it's called :( )
And at least a full battle load of ammo.
My XD-40 with at LEAST five mags.
And an old model Chevy Blazer with a few mods, as my mode of transportation.
In said SUV would by my mossberg 500, my airforce survival Rifle, and the rest of my gear and Ruck Sack.
August 2, 2005, 08:30 PM
Well, one of those small choppers in Blackhawk Down, with the miniguns.
Too Many Choices!?
August 2, 2005, 08:37 PM
An AH-6 "Little Bird", I like your style, but if price is not an object, I will take "Air Wolf" from the '80s t.v. show :evil: !
August 2, 2005, 08:57 PM
A Smith & Wesson .357 mag 4" revolver (model unimportant).
I'd be searching high and low for a semiauto 22 LR with silencer.
Father Knows Best
August 3, 2005, 01:00 AM
Depends on the scenario. Are you mobile or hunkered down? If mobile, are you on foot or motorized? If motorized, how big of a vehicle? The answers to those questions will determine how much gear you have.
I'd probably want to be hunkered down, because it's always better to be defending a fortified position. Unfortunately, I'm not in a place that is easy to defend, and it doesn't have good natural resources. That means I would probably have to move to a better place before hunkering down. I would try to move via motorized transport, but I may not be able to depending on the situation. If traveling on foot, I would put a real premium on a versatile, light weight firearm that uses common ammo (so I can restock on the move). Still, my first choice for a one-and-only firearm would be a rifle, specifically an AR15. It's light, accurate, durable, a capable manstopper, and also useful on game. Ammo is pretty light, meaning a fair amount could be carried, and more could probably be found for it. As I said before, if I have the ability to take more (traveling by truck, for instance), I would add a 12 gauge pump shotgun and perhaps a .22.
August 3, 2005, 01:24 AM
I've always wondered how guys figure on carrying 3-4 longarms, along with the 40 or so other lbs of necessary survival gear? I mean, do you tell the looters "time out" while you go trade off your scoped bolt action, .22, or shotgun, for your AK? Or vice versa? How are you going to know when it's ok to only have a .22 or a shotgun?
They read comic books and see Mr. RKBA Octopus with 6 long guns and 2 pistols in action battling the forces of evil. And so if he can do that, these guys can carry at least half that. ;)
We know survival requires a whole lot more than just guns and ammo (food, water, body armor, clothing (to shelter from the heat, cold, rain, snow, and camo) first aid kit, knife, night vision gear, etc) but this topic is just about what would be the choice of your survival guns.
I'd personally go light on weaponry, bulk up mainly on ammunition, then have some tools, a few replacement parts, solvents, whathaveyou. I would move about slowly and invisible-like, always thinking ahead about my next move.
August 3, 2005, 01:41 AM
No, you get behind cover and then switch weapons. Or stun 'em with the .22 on your way to cover, then switch weapons. Carry your primary single-point slung, and your secondary muzzle down left side. Have the weapon best suited for the current situation in your hands. Be proficient enough to get out of a jam with every weapon you have. If you are hunting small game with the .22, you'll be more likely to spot an ambush (If you're any kind of hunter) before the fact, allowing time to choose a response. (Tactical withdrawl is often the best one. ) If you are patrolling your perimeter and a deer presents itself, well, .223's will kill game if you aren't able to switch weapons. (If it's a squirrel, aim for the head, body shots with .223's or 7.62x39's tend to reduce the edible amount to 0%.)
Fantasy is all well and good, eqzet, but not everybody has or wants a Ciener converter for an AR, or even an AR. Nor are all of us as trim as when we completed Basic, and many have no military training. As for me, here's what I'd use from my current weapons:
M59/66A1 Yugo SKS
Star BM -The only centerfire handgun I own. :( Probably take my .22 snub with, as it adds little weight or bulk.
Now if were talking fantasy:
Well, one of those small choppers in Blackhawk Down, with the miniguns. :evil:
And a Kimber Tac Elite.
August 3, 2005, 03:26 AM
a 22 lr ruger with a can for small game and other needs or a small nine with a can. only becuase finding ammo in a war situatoin would be easier.
then MBR, either an AK or a AR although i have thought about finding a M40 clone with a can. much easier to stop threats at long rnage and with a reduces sound signature. a bolt with a can and a mp5 sd would be fine too and i could then delete the hand gun.
either way it would be with a rifle, a shottie has no place in defensive operations in my mind. i want to use stealth and skill to avoid contact, and if there has to be contact I want it to be on my terms. at my distances. and seeing as how in no world event as i see it, are enemy soldiers going to be operating on American soil without heavy equipment support, contact is going to followed by a) air attack b)arty or c) armor, I think the other piece of equipent is going to be a ATV, the option of cross country travel at very high rates of speed.
August 3, 2005, 10:23 AM
On the .22 LR conversion, are you going to have a preset sight adjustment set up for when you convert to .22?
I have a little Savage single shot that is light and accurate. My main purpose for having a .22 is for hunting with a minimum of noise. I don't need a scope for that. It would probably be too fragile anyway. If the SHTF, I would think iron sights would be better. Sniping is great, but that is not the main reason I would carry a rifle.
If the SHTF now, my M1A would probably be my choice due to more magazines being on hand with my M1 second since I have plenty of clips. I am working on correcting that situation for my AR as it is much easier to carry. If I was driving, I could load just about everything I have into my truck along with what little survival gear I have. Driving would be my first choice as there is not much place I would want to go around Houston that is in walking distance. I do need to put some effort into first aid, food, and water though. Hurricane supplies if anything. I have been lazy in getting a copy of "Backroads of Texas" as well. That would be required to get around in a situation like that.
Father Knows Best
August 3, 2005, 10:51 AM
Hmmm ... I hadn't thought of a .22LR conversion. That's an interesting idea.
I also like the idea of a suppressor for the .22. There are plenty of circumstances I can think of where you'd like to be discrete, even if it's just harvesting small game without drawing the attention of BGs.
I still think a pistol is a waste. .22LR should be as easy or easier to find in the U.S. as 9mm, even in wartime. Even if it isn't, you can stock up on 10,000 rounds of .22LR cheap, and carry a lot of it easily. It takes up very little space and weighs almost nothing. You wouldn't have much need to resupply. Include a couple of boxes of 60 grain subsonic sniper rounds to use with the can when ultimate stealth is required.
The reason for the shotgun is not really for defense -- your rifle can handle that requirement. The shotgun is for hunting. Depending on where you are, birds may be the only reliable game.
August 3, 2005, 01:37 PM
Might be adviseable to practice on moving targets with a .22. I don't think I have done that much.
Also, I would bet subsonic .22 LR is fairly quiet even without a suppressed gun. At least it shouldn't have some much noise down range. I need to get some to play with.
I bought some "primer only" .22 LR a long time ago. It is very quiet and sounds like a small cap gun out of a single shot. Never tried to hunt with it. You might be able to stun a rabbit or squirrel with it. Not much good for anything else. It is almost like throwing a rock. :)
Too Many Choices!?
August 3, 2005, 02:53 PM
Either learn and remember the Clicks to adjust the point of impact "close enough", or get an A3 upper and simply remove one carry handle for another zeroed for .22LR, preferably with a compact inexpensive scope that could serve .223 and .22 also. Scope can be used in place of binoculars in a pinch and would adjust easily to either round...You just added maybe 2lbs(4 with a crap load of .22 ammo:)) and gained a heck of alot in utility...
Just keep your pistol close when using the .22 lr conversion kit(told you a pistol served a purpose :) ).
I think I will have to carry three guns instead of two, darn you guys. I will have to bring the 10 1/2" AR pistol and keep the .22 conversion kit in it with a holo sight mounted,in or on my backpack. I can scrounge parts to keep the M4gery running if needed(bolt carrier, bolt, firing pin,FP retainer pin, lower, springs etc) and the 10 1/2" barrel should be enough for small game, with the dot of death zeroed at 50 yards. See small game, put down the M4gery and pick up the AR pistol now in .22, and also deals with Murphy in a realistic and efficient way. Much faster than trying to change calibers on the fly(and handicapping yourself as far as defense goes,since some of us would then only have a .22 and no BUG pistol).... ;)
PS: Unless you have a solar-powered refrigerator :rolleyes: or a large family, you would be better served taking game that can be cleaned and eaten in one sitting, like up to small deer. .223 will do a number on a small deer with a soft point or take head shots using FMJ. Fish might be a consideration depending on your area(trout line for catfish or something)...
Too Many Choices!?
August 3, 2005, 04:09 PM
"I'd sure never bother to lug around another carrying handle, or 2 scopes, much less an AR "Pistol."
I never asked you to carry anything :confused:...I did list it as an option.
If I want to carry 4 carrying handles and 5 uppers one each in .223, 5.56x45, 7.62x39, .22, and 6.8 what should you care :scrutiny:?
If I want to add another option to my SHTF gear that also serves a practical function of replacement parts set for my primary rifle, small game gitter, a more quiet PDW, as well as an alternative caliber to help sparringly use the more precious .223/5.56x45 (while saving the 50 rounds of .40S&W for REAL SHT, say both rifle and AR pistol are not servicable :) ), how is that a bad thing? Especially when an AR-Pistol weighs less than 4 pounds, with some scope and is only 24" long. Options/Redundant safeties(like Back Up Guns, parts, and calibers) are never a bad thing, and just because you have an option doesn't mean you have to use it. So don't get a second carry handle, or an AR-pistol , don't carry a "normal" BUG pistol, don't adjust your .22 conversion kit's POA to POI and don't cry if your gun breaks and you only have a .22 conversion kit with nothing to put it into. You can always throw rocks, and sticks are free :D ...
PS: Shooting at birds and small mammals, a 3" dispersion at 50 yards might still be a little bit much for accurate shooting on such small game. So those clicks might come in handy. Just my opinion. Now I am off to figure out a secure way to attatch my MP-AR(ARpistol) to my right leg or thigh, that still keeps it accessable :what: .
August 3, 2005, 07:17 PM
My sar-1 for many reason.I know how to fire it,easy to take apart if needed,Can piss on it and bury it in mud and pic up and fire,Holds a decent size round that will kill zombie's.Plus its just dead sexy.
Any .45acp for a pistol.Something that holds at least 10 rounds and has no external safety..
August 3, 2005, 07:43 PM
If I had to hide out in my home, this would be what I'd want with me.
9mm, .38 special or .357 magnum handgun. (Ammo is plentiful)
9mm semiauto carbine, or 38 special, or .357 magnum lever gun. (Ammo is plentiful)
.22lr semiauto rifle. (Ammo is plentiful)
12 gauge pump shotgun. (Ammo is plentiful)
If I was on the run..
.357 magnum revolver
.22lr semiauto carbine.
August 4, 2005, 01:22 AM
Ammo availability will soon become a limiting factor, no matter what firearm you're carrying. Sticking to the most common and available calibers will be crucual. Military calibers mean that warehouses and depots (which are raided and looted) will be potential sources of ammo over the long haul. So... anything in .308, .556, 9mm, .45, 38/357, 12 guage, 30-30, etc.
My point is, don't pick an oddball caliber, or you will have a useless piece of iron to haul around when you can't find ammo.
August 4, 2005, 07:59 PM
My point is, don't pick an oddball caliber, or you will have a useless piece of iron to haul around when you can't find ammo
Course goal one should be to not have to shoot and if you do have to shoot and happen to live through the encounter scavange the enemies stuff if need be.
Remember the Liberator. Single shot POS .45. Shoot the enemy and upgrade.
December 26, 2005, 11:15 AM
Definately my saiga ak, it uses what is probably (next to 22 cal.) the most readily available ammo out there, and uses high cap mags. then my winchester (pre 64) 190, ammo you could get from any wally world, and a ruger p89 sidearm (tough, never jam, plentiful ammo, and great for a close up head shot on the radioactive zombie). Bring it on!
December 26, 2005, 01:33 PM
For invading Chicoms, reinvigorated Russkies, or whatever, I think I'd hunker behind the English boxwoods and (hopefully) let the convoys pass me by... ;)
For George Romero zombies, a 10/22 with some 25-round magazines or my .357 Winchester Trapper should be enough. A back-up handgun would be nice... A Glock 26/27 with some extended mags, or a good ol' .38/.357 revolver... As far as Entropy's thought about his .22 snubbie -- I'm with you. I'll also pack my S&W 317 kit gun 'cause I'll hardly notice it's there...
For remake-Dawn of the Dead zombies, give me a short shotgun and any decent carbine with the fastest rate of fire I can get -- and a fortress to house all the ammo (and me!).
Mad Max scenario -- I'm back to the Winchester Trapper, back-up handgun, and .22 revolver. My hope is to avoid contact with the Lord Humongous, Toe Cutter, Bubba Zanetti, et al, entirely, while I make my way to the land where petrol flows freely...
I'm glad these SHTF threads crop up from time to time to reinforce our survival skills and mindset... ;)
December 26, 2005, 11:19 PM
I'll go with what I want from what I already own.
Extreme-Long Range - Swiss K31
Medium-long Range - Yugo SKS
Marlin 1894 .44Mag
Short Range - Hi-Point 9mm Carbine
Mossberg 500 12 Gauge
I'll split these between me and the rest of my fire-team.
December 26, 2005, 11:25 PM
December 26, 2005, 11:30 PM
Nothing like a holiday weekend to awaken a dead horse... next what gun for zombie threads?
Just kidding. Happy holidays to those of you NOT working. (grumble mutter grumble)
December 26, 2005, 11:40 PM
Two Desert Eagles for two hands.
December 26, 2005, 11:42 PM
a good 30.06 rifle with scope
.22 rifle with scope
.45acp, .45 gap, 1911 with several mags or USP, Glock, etc with several higher cap mags.
December 27, 2005, 07:36 PM
That includes portable shelter, tools, water, rations, light and fire making gear, extra clothing, body armor, etc. So, no, you won't be using 2 longarms, nor even "just" an AR pistol and a longarm. You will jettison 1 of them, within a day or two. You won't have any choice about it. Nobody can spare that much pointless extra effort.
I bet if I asked you how well you could feed yourself with a field made bow or slingshot, you'd say 3" at 30-50 ft. Yet, "somehow" 3" groups at 50 yds are not acceptable for foraging with the scoped 22 rifle.
You don't need to change the sights for the .22lr conversion unit in the AR-15. What you do is zero the "long range" peep at 150-200 yds, depending upon the length of your barrel and load used. Then you zero the short ranged sight at 50 yds, using the 22 unit, and by using a File and epoxy to make that wing of the sight a "v notch", for fast work. The POI of the 223 ammo will be close enough to the POI of the 22lr for fast work. If you need more precision than being within 3" at 50 yds, you simply take the 1 second or less needed to flip up the long range wing of the peep sight. You don't need to bother with the extra 4 lbs of the dedicated .22lr upper, nor the $400 worth of expense for same. The .22 lr unit works just fine in the 223 barrel.
No, "what gun you shoot best" is not the best choice for shtf. You may be a really mean welder, but that doesn't make you a carpenter. A shotgun might be fine at 30 yds or less, but it sucks when you have to deal with cover users at 100 yds+. It doesn't matter how much you "like" a shotgun, or what a whizzbang skeet or trapshooter you are, the tool is not up to the job for shtf. It would be like trying to drive nails with a saw. You have to look at what job needs to be done, in order to pick the right tool. When the woods are full of riflemen, foraging with a noisy shotgun is just stupid.
December 27, 2005, 08:53 PM
FWIW, I agree completely with the bigoted anti-shotgun remarks. Remember, you need something that can punch through the snow banks when SHTF in Global Cooling (http://www.lewrockwell.com/walker/walker17.html).
December 28, 2005, 01:41 PM
First choice would be a combo of DA revolver and lever gun. Both chambered in .357 Mag. The reason is simple, in addition to both being able to shoot the readily available 357/38 cartridge the use of some simple half moon clips, or even a piece of small wire in the extractor groove, will allow you to use just about any .38/9mm pistol cartrdge in the revo.
Second choice would be the same combo in .454 Casull. Then you have the option of also using .45 LC or .45 ACP using the same clips/wire as above. In a real pinch, you could use .410 shotshells in the rifle (as a breechloaded single shot).
I also wouldn't mind having a shotgun. Choices, in order, are - pump 12 with an extended mag, O/U 12, single 12.
I'll stay away from any type of semi-auto guns for a simple reason - more moving parts equals more things to wear out and be difficult to find/replace. If the SHTF, I want simple, dependable firearms with the most versatility that will give a long service life and can be easily repaired with nothing more than a flat blade (used as a screwdriver) and some hand-filed parts I can make from salvaged/scrap metal.
December 28, 2005, 02:19 PM
ok if i had access to what i want heres the list for me and my wife
carryruger 10/22 in pack
1911 style 45
small 22 revlover in pack
1911 style 45
ar7 (22 cal survival rifle used in air force for pilots shot down. breaks down into stock and floats)
as far as ammo goes
200 for the m-1
50 for the 12 guage
10 mags for the 45's total for both of us 5 each
a brick of 22
a couple of boxes of shot for the 22's for snakes and such
and stashes of ammo at stragic places so i dont have to weigh myself down carrying it all.
the idea is rifle for longer range, shot gun for close in work, 45 for back ups. the 22 for game harvest due to low noise even better if i can find subsonic rounds.
December 28, 2005, 10:07 PM
Good steel-toed boots: zombies have weak legs.
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