Have to ask?


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VietVet 67-68
July 29, 2005, 05:01 AM
Okay have to ask! How many of you on this form have acually been in combat and had to kill someone or he would have killed you, and how did that make you feel?


Keith http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/q/sadface.gif

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Don't Tread On Me
July 29, 2005, 07:32 AM
I honestly do not mean this as a flame or an attack in any way.

It has been my experience that most combat veterans do not speak about such events so casually. Nor do real combat/war veterans ask such questions with that type of language. These are questions that actual combat veterans, if asked, absolutely hate. Also, they remark those that ask them are often folks who aren't combat veterans themselves, let alone someone whose killed another person. This is my experience when talking to actual combat veterans in person. I know it sounds cliched, the whole thing about "not wanting to talk about it". That isn't true, many will - just never "just like that" on a webforum. That is like talking about life/death combat situations to a crowd of strangers in a bar.

So, I find it strange that you ask, and I also doubt you'll get a real answer from the many keyboard commandos that infest the internet.


If you are really a veteran, then I extend my total and sincere apologies. If not......

RTFM
July 29, 2005, 09:13 AM
Well said Don't Tread On Me.
Most vets don't sit around swapping stories about the "gooners they bagged"

Lock the thread please. This is a utterly useless request.

gvass
July 29, 2005, 09:18 AM
"How many of you on this form have acually been in combat and had to kill someone or he would have killed you, and how did that make you feel?"

All who will answer this question, never ever seen combat, any kind. Period.

Rebar
July 29, 2005, 09:30 AM
I find it mighty peculiar that someone with a handle like "VietVet 67-68" would ask such a question.

Sleeping Dog
July 29, 2005, 10:27 AM
Rebar, I'd guess someone with a handle VietVet-67-68 has as much right to ask the question as anyone. Who knows the motivation?

VietVet, I'd suggest filling a cooler with beer and heading for the local VFW hall.

My handle could have been EuroVet-67-68, so I know a thing or two about beer. :)

Regards.

WT
July 29, 2005, 11:45 AM
There are some things one does not talk about.

My brother, cousins and friends have never spoken of their combat experiences with Special Forces, the 101st or The Cav. I have never asked.

DirtyBrad
July 29, 2005, 12:02 PM
Oh, boo-hoo.

If someone asks a question you don't want to respond to, don't freaking respond. There's nothing wrong with asking a question. Every time someone brings up suicide here, people come out of the woodwork talking about their friends or family members who've done it. The severity of that subject doesn't stop people from discussing it openly, why should this?

If someone asks about terminal illness, I may talk about my father dying or I may decide the internet isn't the place for it. It's up to me, but I'm not going to act all offended by someone asking.

I think the issue of how it makes one feel to kill someone in that situation is very germane to this forum. We all talk about a hundred times a day about shooting someone in self defense. I think it would be very valuable to hear what that does to the shooter emotionally, especially as so many people here act like it would be like swatting a fly to them.

Leatherneck
July 29, 2005, 12:10 PM
I find it mighty peculiar that someone with a handle like "VietVet 67-68" would ask such a question. Careful with the criticism, please. Some "issues" have very long lives.

TC
VietVet 68-69

stevelyn
July 29, 2005, 12:23 PM
Perhaps VietVet is looking to talk to someone that may have some similar experiences in the relative anonymity of the internet.
Maybe anyone wishing to tell their story can PM him and avoid criticisims on an open forum.

robert garner
July 29, 2005, 12:28 PM
My Father in Law and Uncle met once; two sentences apiece composed of:
Korea? exchange of dates and locales,Viet Nam? dates and locales, silence.
I've far to much to live up to

GunGoBoom
July 29, 2005, 12:42 PM
Oh, boo-hoo.

If someone asks a question you don't want to respond to, don't freaking respond. There's nothing wrong with asking a question.

EX-ACTLY. +1. There just MAY be a few real vets who would approach the subject in such a matter-of-fact, somewhat cavalier way; maybe not. In any event, just let the thread run its course. I can see maybe if you were an actual vet chastising this person; but let's leave it to actual vets to respond in whatever way is appropriate, not us non-vets; and not call in an airstrike from the close-happy mods.

Mal H
July 29, 2005, 12:43 PM
Leatherneck is absolutely right. Let's stop the completely unfounded criticisms that have been flying around here.

Until you know the experiences, circumstances and feelings of another with regards to that very touchy subject, silence is the best post you can offer.

stevelyn's observation and advice are very good.

phoglund
July 29, 2005, 12:45 PM
I'm going to take a bit of an unusual approach to this thread...answer the question...in the negative. I've never done so and hope I never will. If any of you have fought for the USA and had to kill in the line of duty you have my sympathy for having to take human life and heartfelt thanks for your service.

I was in the Coast Guard and predictably saw no combat.

Vern Humphrey
July 29, 2005, 12:47 PM
While there may be some value in a discussion on this subject, this is not the appropriate forum.

Rebar
July 29, 2005, 01:07 PM
Careful with the criticism, please. Some "issues" have very long lives.
With the anonymity of the internet, it's easy to pose as something you're not. While I generally accept what someone says about themselves, it doesn't take much to get the old BS meter running.

MAUSER88
July 29, 2005, 01:44 PM
Sounds like a legit question to me. Respond or don't, what's the big deal?? :confused:

wmenorr67
July 29, 2005, 01:51 PM
I'm going to take a bit of an unusual approach to this thread...answer the question...in the negative. I've never done so and hope I never will. If any of you have fought for the USA and had to kill in the line of duty you have my sympathy for having to take human life and heartfelt thanks for your service.

+1

Vern Humphrey
July 29, 2005, 01:54 PM
Sounds like a legit question to me. Respond or don't, what's the big deal??

Killing another human being leaves an indellible mark. Those who had to do it, especially those who did it in the service of the country, have a right to privacy.

Polishrifleman
July 29, 2005, 02:05 PM
To +1 Vern, Death itself leaves a mark whether you've done the killing, watched a love one die or a stranger in your arms, some people like to talk about it and get it off their chest and communicate about it, others think you should keep it in and deal with it internally. Only the individual knows how and when shuch topics will be discussed if ever.

pax
July 29, 2005, 02:51 PM
VietVet ~

I just picked up an interesting book by David Klinger. The title is, "Into the Kill Zone" and the subtitle is, "A Cop's Eye View of Deadly Force."

Klinger is a sociologist and an ex-cop. He interviewed 80 police officers in four states, who, like him, had to shoot someone while on duty, and their stories are told in this book. While I've only read the first chapter so far, the stories are told in a gripping style that makes it hard to put the book back down.

If you are trying to come to grips with incidents in your own past, I'd recommend this book simply because it does present the perspectives of a lot of different people who had to make agonizingly complex choices in chaotic circumstances and who lived to tell about it.

pax

Double Maduro
July 29, 2005, 02:56 PM
What Vern said.


DM

DirtyBrad
July 29, 2005, 05:30 PM
I respect very much those who serve or have served. Thank you all. Also, I have nothing but sympathy for those forced to take lives in the line of that duty.

However, I don't think it's at all right to jump all over someone for asking a question. I have a right to privacy if I take Viagra, but that doesn't mean if someone asks, "Has anyone on here ever taken Viagra" I'm going to get upset. What I'm going to do is not respond.

I doubt very seriously that those in that position are going to freak out if someone asks the question. It's not as if in normal society the concepts of death, killing, war, or shooting never come up.

No, I don't take Viagra. Yet...

Ric
July 29, 2005, 07:47 PM
Grenada
Panama
Gulf War Episode 1

I never really had a problem talking about it. I don't go around bragging cause it's not really anything to brag about. I did what I had to do and came home.

Lone_Gunman
July 29, 2005, 08:54 PM
I find it mighty peculiar that someone with a handle like "VietVet 67-68" would ask such a question.

Damn, I actually agree with you for once, Rebar.

BobCat
July 30, 2005, 11:50 AM
Funny - the written word is *so* different from the spoken word!

Given the title and text of the original post, I read him to be asking something like: "a lot of people here write how they would just shoot the bad guy, given some threatening situation - but how many of those who write these responses have actually have been in such a situation, had to shoot, and how did they feel afterward?" - to paraphrase what I understood of his original question.

Regards,
Andrew

Don't Tread On Me
July 30, 2005, 03:50 PM
A couple people I know went to Iraq. They talked about what happened over there to me. That is because I know them well, and they were willing to talk about it. I didn't pry, and they didn't brag. Usually they talk in a suggestive way, like about a situation that went down.


Yes, they killed people. No, they don't like it one bit. Worst things to hear about were the stories of how widows would come to the bases and beg outside the gates for food, water or money. Since their husbands got killed (either insurgents or by accident in a bombing). Their life is essentially over because of the poverty and how it is male-dominated society. Women can't get by on their own, and in a nation with 60% of the MEN unemployed, it is bad bad news for them.

I've talked to 2 vets personally, and 2 others via internet, and NONE of them called the enemy over there "terrorists". They are all bugged out and mental because they were over there killing citizens who in their mind are fighting a war for freedom. Kind of messed up. They also all seemed to speak with a sort of guilt in their words. One of them even told me he was glad I didn't "thank" him for his service, because he was sick of hearing that, and it was driving him crazy. He told me that for one, he went there because he signed up for it, and that he didn't feel some overwhelming patriotic motive. The main reason (I think) it annoys them is because they feel their fight over there wasn't for America in the sense that WW2 was. Not a war for survival.


At no point did these guys talk about gruesome details. That is sick for one, and 2nd it is juvenile/immature. Only people who have not experienced it would remark about it this way. I guess seeing it for real hardens you to the point that any sort of speaking of it in a light way is absolutely gone.


Not trying to hijack the thread, or make a political statement about Iraq. Just describing how the vets talked to me in my experience with them.

Ryder
July 30, 2005, 03:55 PM
I enlisted during that war. Wasn't sent to Vietnam but I did get buzzed by a Russian jet up in the Arctic once. If I'd been armed I'd have started WWIII all by myself. What I experienced can best described as instinct for self preservation. No time to spare for touchy-feely philosophizing.

He isn't asking for descriptions of killings, only how people feel. Many of you post on these boards how you'd feel if you shot a kid with a toy gun or a bank robber. I fail to see the difference.

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