Should I?


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280PLUS
July 29, 2005, 12:39 PM
Apparently my business is exploding lately and I'm thinking about hiring. Should I advertise that a CT pistol permit would be a "Plus" when considering applicants. My take is more along the lines that if they have such permit they have passed a background check and could therefore be considered more reliable. Whether they CCW or not would be up to them.

Just curious what the board thinks.

Thanx!

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Drav
July 29, 2005, 12:43 PM
Considering CCW holders commit crimes far less than the average population, I don't see anything wrong with it.

wmenorr67
July 29, 2005, 12:44 PM
It would depend on the type of business.

tuna
July 29, 2005, 01:20 PM
Absolutely! Like you said, you would know they are reliable but there are some other hidden pluses in there.

You can hold the "mandatory fun" meetings at a gun range and actually see people show up.

You have people that you can have a conversation with.

You don't have to worry about someone freaking out when someone normal leaves a "Guns and Ammo" magazine out and someone with warped ideas sees it.

Polishrifleman
July 29, 2005, 01:31 PM
I am going to take a slightly different approach being a business owner myself.

If it is appropriate for the job I would go for it. If it is for paperwork etc. then it would be questionable and if it is personal I wouldn't do it. Have your first interviews at the range, that will give you a direct sense of the individual and their comfort level around guns.

I know it is your company and that is great it is doing well. The problem I have is we all know that some anti is going to get a hold of it and take it to some liberal media person and there are going to be questions. If you can answer them and take the critisism without affecting your business then again go for it. To say it a different way, if your business can survive the potential fallout then go for it. If not, I would rather see your business continue to thrive and be successful.

Drav
July 29, 2005, 01:35 PM
He isn't hiring a CCW holder because they share an interest, he's looking for a CCW holder because they've already passed a background check in order to have one, and because having one means the potential employee is less likely to commit a crime (any crime, like employee theft).

Rebar
July 29, 2005, 01:39 PM
Might not be a good idea.

If it turns out that, for whatever reason, minorities have been issued permits at less than the rate for whites, then it can be turned around on you as illegal discrimination.

chaim
July 29, 2005, 04:37 PM
In today's litigious environment I don't think I would do it if it was my business. I'd at least consult an attorney I trusted first. I would be very cautious about requiring anything not directly pertinent to the job.

If you want someone to be a security guard as the primary or secondary job description it would make sense. If you want someone who can carry cash deposits to the bank for you and be armed for security then maybe you could safely require that.

If you just want the background check, there are companies out there that will do background checks for relatively reasonable fees (a couple hundred bucks on your top candidate is reasonable considering the cost of internal theft).

Ego Archive
July 29, 2005, 04:52 PM
One thing to do, would just be just to wear your sidearm during the interviews. Anyone that was applying for the position and at all interested in firearms, would probably take the opportunity to discuss your gun with you. They get to impress a potential employer that way.

280PLUS
July 29, 2005, 05:10 PM
I don't mean it as a requirement, just a "plus" meaning if I have two virtually identical applicants and one has a permit and one doesn't, I might tend to lean toward the permit holder. Just like if one had some college and the other didn't I would probably go with the one with college experience. If they wanted to carry during working hours I would be ok with that because we do find ourselves in unfavorable locations at times, however, it would not be required. They may collect fairly large amounts of cash occasionally but not as a rule.

:D

Alex45ACP
July 29, 2005, 05:15 PM
Do eet! :D

keyhole
July 29, 2005, 05:24 PM
Not bad.

Standing Wolf
July 29, 2005, 10:25 PM
If it turns out that, for whatever reason, minorities have been issued permits at less than the rate for whites, then it can be turned around on you as illegal discrimination.

Fear of lawyers is an irrational phobia.

chopinbloc
July 29, 2005, 10:51 PM
do it! how long are we gonna continue to cower to these mentally disturbed antiunners?
The problem I have is we all know that some anti is going to get a hold of it and take it to some liberal media person and there are going to be questions
good! i call it free advertising - as long as you can present yourself as an honest, sane person (no small task if the news people want to make you look bad) there are alot of good reasons for leaning toward pistol packin' employees. if you want to do it, then cowboy up and do it.

CGofMP
July 29, 2005, 11:27 PM
I'm gonna take a different tack here....

Suppose you or another person in the business has to drop the hammer on some violent ninja grizzly bear from mars someday.... Suppose further that the Grizly Ninja from mars has a welfare queen wife and sues you.

I can see an attorny twisting this into you looking for hired guns because you are a blood crazed whacko.


I'd have an NRA mug on my desk or something and let them pick up on it. Then you could ask etc.

Youll interview more people, but you wont have an extra achillies heel at the civil court if god forbid that ever happends.

Just my personal opinion.

LiquidTension
July 29, 2005, 11:48 PM
How 'bout, "Proof of prior background check a plus."

Taurus 66
July 30, 2005, 12:27 AM
If they wanted to carry during working hours I would be ok with that because we do find ourselves in unfavorable locations at times, however, it would not be required. They may collect fairly large amounts of cash occasionally but not as a rule.

You - the employer, would be liable if someone in your workplace was the Mr. Instructor type:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148884

This guy's lucky the bullet found him instead of someone nearby and that it was non-lethal. Had he hit the main artery, well, you know. With all the heat circling around gun makers today, how much worse could legal ramifications get for an employer who allows carry on the job and something serious happens? It could turn your world upside down.

If I were you, CCW permit is a good start, but I'd be looking for a certification with an x number of hours spent in a "Firearm Safety" course. I would be looking for more ...

... just one man's opinion.

pax
July 30, 2005, 12:34 AM
LiquidTension's got the right idea.

pax

Alex45ACP
July 30, 2005, 01:45 AM
I think it would be a good message to put out. If people saw more stuff like that encouraging firearms ownership, it might help overcome the media brainwashing.

280PLUS
July 30, 2005, 05:51 AM
You folks sure know how to make a guy think!

let me do that for a while...

:D

280PLUS
July 30, 2005, 05:56 AM
Met him at Chris' in Guilford, CT. Decent range, nice friendly owner. Rents guns and only charged my wife and I $11.00 total to shoot beacause we were with Hawk. So hawkmoon tries my Dinan Colt and drills a beautiful group out at 25 ft. Then he says, "You know that's the gun and not me."

:D

Hawkmoon
July 30, 2005, 02:23 PM
It was the gun, you have only to look at my own targets to see that.

Got another take on the CCW question: You might not wish to state openly that a CCW is a plus, because in the unlikely event that an employee is forced to use a gun in self-defense it's not only possible but probably that somehow, some way, an attorney who is not on your side or your employee's side will find the ad and it'll come back to haunt you.

But ... although there are some kinds of questions you aren't allowed to ask in a job interview (how old are you, are you married, do you have children, etc), there is no prohibition that I am aware of against asking prospective employees about prior background checks. You could either ask verbally or include on an application form a general question about having passed previous background checks and you could then offer several categories: prior employment in sensitive positions/classified employers; military of other government security clearance; CCW; "etc."

That allows you a way to elicit the information without running up any red flags that you're looking to hire Rambo.

This is kind of an expansion of what LiquidTension wrote, but I actually wrote this before I finished the thread and saw his post.

Honest!

280PLUS
July 30, 2005, 04:47 PM
I meant to post it as a new thread and was a little bewildered later when I couldn't find it! I thought I was losing what's left of my marbles...:p

Yep, I see what you are all driving at, how about, " Ct pistol permit or other current proof of clean background a plus." Meaning you'll save me the time and $ of doing a background check if you can provide me with one up front and I would find that in your favor.

Again, just to clarify, I'm not really thinking about this in terms of hiring only CCW I just believe anyone who can and does attain their permit may have certain attributes BESIDES their gun wielding abilities that I as an employer would find desirable. It certainly denotes the person can be expected to be reasonably law abiding and fairly honest.

As far as them carrying I would take a "Don't ask, don't tell" approach because really, it's none of my business whether they do or not.

This all started BTW because I had been thinking about hiring a bookeeper and just recently found one advertising in my gun club newsletter and I was thinking to myself that I didn't have to worry about her background because if it was really bad, (convicted felon for example), she most likely wouldn't have a pistol permit. I did hire her but not for that reason alone. And not just because she's gorgeous AND shoots, I mean she is and she does...but THAT'S NOT WHY!! I SWEAR! :evil:

You can catch her at XXXXX Sportsmans Club with her girlfriends on Sundays she tells me. But don't try the "Gee I love a girl that shoots!" line, she says it's old... :neener:

:D

280PLUS
July 31, 2005, 08:02 AM
I just wanted to bump this and make sure my last question wasn't lost in my last post.

Yep, I see what you are all driving at, how about, " Ct pistol permit or other current proof of clean background a plus."

(I'm not crazy about the word "clean" any suggestions?)

I also had a thought about advertising in gun club newsletters for help.

:D

Later...How about, "CT pistol permit or other current proof of exemplary background a plus."

Werewolf
July 31, 2005, 09:58 AM
Nice idea - BUT!

I don't mean it as a requirement, just a "plus" meaning if I have two virtually identical applicants and one has a permit and one doesn't,The fact that it isn't a requirement for the job could get you in trouble.

I used to have to do hiring interviews - there are many restrictions on the types of things that can be required and asked of an applicant - most of which never made any sense to me.

I'd strongly recommend talking to an HR professional or an attorney that specializes in employment law.

That said - wearing your sidearm at the interview is a great suggestion. It would definitely be a way to weed out the antis. When you ask the applicant if he/she has any questions - well - if CCW comes up more the better.

280PLUS
July 31, 2005, 10:20 AM
You see how I have "cleverly" :rolleyes: worded it to infer that a valid pistol permit represents to me, a potential employer, proof of an exemplary background? THAT is where I am going with this idea. Kind of like spreading the word in a PC kind of way. Making it appear to be the positive thing it is where others might want to represent handgun ownership as having negative connotations. I mean I DID hire the young lady knowing I didn't have to question her background because her pistol permit is proof of that. So is voter registration now that I think about it, but actually maybe not as stringently. You have to clear a few more hurdles to get your permit here in CT than you do to vote. Would I or should I feel equally in fear of litigation if I included "Registered voter a plus?"

I have a pretty good idea what either an attorney or HR pro would say. It would probably start with, "Are you nuts?" :p

:D

Hawkmoon
July 31, 2005, 01:28 PM
Well, it is your business and you are entitled to run it as you wish. A good attorney or HR professional would set aside any personal prejudices and advise you according to what the law says, requires, and prohibits.

IANAL but I was a manager for a number of years with responsibility to hire and fire, so I did attend a few HR seminars. I am certainly not current, but the list of things you cannot ask probably hasn't changed all that much. You can't ask about age, marital status, religion, race, etc. I am not sure if you can ask about sexual orientation, but I'll guess probably not.

I believe you can ask about criminal history. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a blank for that on the application. Sure, they can lie, but last time I checked falsifying anything on an employment application was grounds for dismissal right there, so it never hurts to have the paper in the file.

As far as I know, an employer can say that pretty much anything is a "plus." Even if a "plus" criterion cannot legally be used to disqualify an otherwise qualified candidate, it can be used to choose between two qualified candidates. You would do that anyway, and I believe you can do so legally, so all you're doing is being up-front about what you'll be considering in reviewing applications.

Why should you have to go to the trouble of checking their background? I don;t think the job market is great in Conencticut these days. Why not put the monkey on their shoulder. Let them go to the state police and get a copy of a criminal history report. I think it costs a couple of bucks, but even if you don't hire them they can take it to other job interviews and put it on the table as a "plus" for them (all the while kvetching about the S.O.B. who made them get this thing and then didn't hire them anyway).

280PLUS
August 1, 2005, 06:32 AM
Why not put the monkey on their shoulder. Let them go to the state police and get a copy of a criminal history report.Good idea HM, I could also ask for a copy of driving record too. That'll separate the herd out quite nicely. I heard from the new bookeeper last night too. She's a real steamroller boy. :eek: :D Over the weekend she got me from nowhere to just a few mouseclicks away from LLC (Licensed Limited Corporation) heck, I hardly even know what that is. I'll have to ask her. :p

It's all over but the paying :what: :barf:

I could put "Do you possess a CT Pistol Permit?" on the application, No?

;)

ckyllo
August 1, 2005, 07:59 AM
how about " must be abel to pass a background check or posess a valid handgun carry permit "

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