BEWARE American Hunters & Shooters Association


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Connecticut Yankee
July 31, 2005, 05:45 PM
From: http://nraila.org/HuntingAndConservation/DiggersCorner/Default.aspx

Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.
John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements. Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be.
Dawson
Posted By: Dawson

URL for the AHSA http://www.huntersandshooters.com/

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No4Mk1
July 31, 2005, 06:12 PM
Proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing... or the other way around as it were... ;)

Good information to pass along. Thanks!

SouthpawShootr
July 31, 2005, 06:26 PM
Wouldn't you just love it if a pro-gun hacker got ahold of that website? :D

JohnKSa
July 31, 2005, 08:10 PM
Here's a GEM from Mr. Rosenthal himself.

http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=98I believe most law abiding Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families, to hunt and to enjoy the shooting sports.My emphasis added. So MOST law-abiding Americans have the right to own guns? Which law-abiding Americans don't have that right, pray tell?

Here are some beauties from the section called "What we stand for"AHSA is committed to supporting our nation’s law enforcement officers in their fight against easy access to guns by criminals, terrorists and others.

AHSA is a non-partisan organization that advocates and advances sensible public policies. We will never support unfettered access to all types of weapons. What OTHERS shouldn't have easy access to guns? Wanna guess?

Hawkmoon
July 31, 2005, 09:28 PM
AHSA is a non-partisan organization that advocates and advances sensible public policies. We will never support unfettered access to all types of weapons.
Or, in other words, "We will never support the Constitution of the United States of America."

Moderators -- can we get this thread stuck?

Standing Wolf
July 31, 2005, 11:06 PM
Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

If you can't be the best, be the worst.

K-Romulus
July 31, 2005, 11:52 PM
I am on the now-defunct email list. I got an email last week promoting this org as one of the "America Coming Together" (or whatever it's called) group of anti-gun-owner organizations.

I stopped paying attention as soon as I saw them claim that .50BMG rifles were "designed for the military."

"Sport shooters?" Yeah, right . . . :rolleyes:

boofus
August 1, 2005, 01:02 AM
Hey, give em a break. Even Hitler's Gestapo and SS were shooters. They shot plenty of guns... :rolleyes: /sarcasm

Connecticut Yankee
August 1, 2005, 06:47 AM
Per original NRAILA post: "John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation."

If you go to: http://www.stophandgunviolence.com/links.asp#firearms, the first five links are: The Brady Center, Americans for Gun Safety (another wolf in sheep's clothing!), Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, Joint Together and the Six or Eight or So (Maybe Ten on a Good Day) Mom's March! I mean what more need be said? Spread the word at the range and with all your friends, these guys are gun-grabbers!

bogie
August 1, 2005, 10:19 AM
There's a contact page...

Heh, heh...

The "cop killer bullets" thing you have posted is a myth. The KTW bullet company was owned by police, and only sold to law enforcement (the "teflon coating" was a barrel protector, since the penetration was achieved by kinetic energy and projectile profile). Then a politician heard about "armor piercing" bullets, and raised a ruckus. The result: Crooks realized that cops wore vests, and started shooting police in the head. That politician is responsible for a lot of police deaths - KTW none.

Also, wondering about your web site - a lot of your stuff reads like "keep them in the right hands." Who determines that? In my state, until recently, it was a given that hands which were darker than light beige were assumed to be the "wrong hands." That's bogus. Please don't support racism.

Also, I saw a reference to "assault weapons." Assault weapons have been regulated since 1934, and require a background check, a lot of paperwork, and a punitive $200 tax to purchase. If you're referring ergonomically correct semi-auto rifles, I shoot competitively, and you'd be eliminating a very large segment of competitive shooting if you removed them from the playing field. Please do your homework.

BB62
August 2, 2005, 01:44 PM
From the NRA-ILA:

http://www.nraila.org/HuntingAndConservation/Diggerscorner/Post.aspx?ID=23

Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.

John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements. Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be

NeveraVictimAgain
August 2, 2005, 01:55 PM
Thank you for this important post.

Regards,
Dave

VARifleman
August 2, 2005, 02:12 PM
Dupe: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=149568

johnster999
August 2, 2005, 04:24 PM
Typical anti-gunners trying to pass themselves off as something else. Reminiscent of the so-called 'Ask Campaign'.

999

jefnvk
August 2, 2005, 04:54 PM
You realize what they are trying to do. Split hunters and sport shooters off from the rest of gun owners. If they can get the support from hunters and sport shooters on things like assualt rifles, CCW, and other things, in return for leaving hunting and sport guns alone, their job is much easier.

50 Shooter
August 2, 2005, 06:28 PM
Here's their crap about .50's :barf:


Issue: Modern semiautomatic .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles are weapons designed for military use that combine long range, accuracy, and massive power. Intended for use in combat situations, these weapons can penetrate structures and destroy or disable light armored vehicles, radar dishes, helicopters, stationary airplanes, and other “high-value” military targets. The Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, Al Qaeda, the Irish Republican Army, street and motorcycle gangs in California, Missouri and Indiana, and various militia groups and criminals across the United States are all documented as having possessed or used modern .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles.

AHSA supports legislative efforts to regulate .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles in the same manner as machine guns are regulated under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The modern .50 caliber BMG rifle is one of the most powerful and destructive weapons legally available to civilians in the United States. A modern .50 caliber BMG rifle can hit a target accurately from distances of 1,000 to 2,000 yards, depending on the skill of the shooter, and can reach targets at a longer range with less accuracy. At significantly closer distances, these rifles are much more destructive and able to blast through solid concrete at 200 yards or penetrate an inch of armor plate at 300 yards.

The destructive power of the modern .50 caliber rifle can be intensified by the use of various types of ammunition that is available commercially. In addition to the standard "ball" round of .50 caliber ammunition, armor-piercing, incendiary, and combination armor-piercing and incendiary ammunition for the modern .50 caliber rifles can significantly enhance the destructive capacity, particularly against chemical and industrial facilities and civil aviation targets.

Despite their deadly power, or possibly because of it, .50 caliber rifles in various configurations are proliferating on the civilian firearms market and in many states are subject to less regulation than handguns. Because .50 caliber rifles are classified as long guns under federal law, they can legally be purchased by an 18 year old (unless state law restricts such purchases). 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1), (c)(1).

Modern .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles possess no reasonable utility for hunting or self-defense. Design modifications over the past few years have made some .50 caliber rifles lighter and easier to transport. In addition, the once high cost of these guns has dropped with its increase in popularity—prices for new .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles, traditionally in the $4,000 to $7,000 range, have dropped to under $2,000 according to some gun magazines and internet sites.

The .50 caliber BMG’s popularity lies not just with target shooters, but criminals, gangs and terrorists as well.

According to the Office of Special Investigations of the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms gun traces involving 50 caliber sniper rifles have “identified some examples of criminal misuse of the .50 caliber rifle with a nexus to terrorism, outlaw motorcycle gangs, international and domestic drug trafficking, and violent crime.” U.S. General Accounting Office. Availability of .50 Caliber Semiautomatic Rifles, 30 June 1999. For additional information, please see the GAO’s Office of Special Investigations briefing report on .50 Caliber Rifle Crime.

Under federal law, firearms sellers who do not possess a federal firearm license can sell 50 caliber rifles to individuals at gun shows and elsewhere without performing a background check on the purchaser. Although some states (such as California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey) regulate private sales and prohibit all sales of firearms without a background check on the purchaser, in most states terrorists and other criminals can easily acquire a .50 caliber BMG sniper rifle.

Currently, .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles are not regulated at the federal level. Legislation has been introduced that would bring the gun under the jurisdiction of the National Firearms Act, which regulates machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and destructive devices. To date, there has been no movement on this legislation.

In September 2004, California became the first state to regulate .50 caliber BMG rifles. Effective January 1, 2005, .50 caliber BMG rifles will fall under California’s Assault Weapons Control Act, Cal. Penal Code §§ 12275-12277, 12280 et seq., which will generally prohibit the weapons' manufacture, sale, importation and possession without registration.

Currently, Maryland is the only other state that in some manner regulates the .50 caliber rifle, classifying the "Barrett light .50 cal. semi-auto" as an assault weapon. Md. Public Safety Code § 5-101(p)(2)(ix). Several other states - Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and Virginia - have considered legislation to regulate this type of weapon.

In the 1920s lightweight fully automatic firearms (machine guns) were available for sale to the general public. Private ownership of machine guns became an issue after the prohibition of liquor in 1919. Prohibition was followed by an increase in organized crime, which involved the use of submachine guns, especially the Thompson .45 caliber, nicknamed the "Tommy Gun".

Following passage of restrictions on fully automatic firearms in several states, the administration of the newly elected president, Franklin D. Roosevelt proposed federal restrictions on the civilian possession and ownership of machine guns. The result of FDR`s efforts was the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934, (NFA). That law, which was supported by the NRA, requires that before a private citizen may take possession of a fully-automatic firearm they must pay a $200 tax to the Internal Revenue Service, be approved by ATF to own the firearm, and the gun must registered with the federal government.

In 1986, Congress approved the NRA sponsored Firearms Owners` Protection Act (FOPA). ATF has interpreted provisions of FOPA as a prohibition on the civilian possession of all machine guns manufactured after May 19, 1986. The effect of the interpretation has been to "freeze" the number of privately owned machine guns available for private ownership.

Since the passage of the NFA in 1934, crimes committed with machine guns are almost nonexistent.

Because of the potential for criminal misuse, the immense “fire power” and the potential for terrorist use, AHSA believes the .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles should be regulated in the same manner as the federal government regulates machine guns under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.
Contact Us Privacy Policy Press


Oh yeah, they're on OUR side!!! :banghead:

Sistema1927
August 2, 2005, 06:28 PM
I wonder if John "I hunted deer with my 12 ga. double while crawling on my belly" Kerry is a member?

bakert
August 2, 2005, 06:46 PM
Whenever I hear any of the terms; Rational, Reasonable or Sensible connected to any kind of gun talk my BS meter kicks in. Another statement that gets my attention is "I used to be a hunter" which translates most times as "Well, I went hunting once". Unlike many of these people believe, not all gun owners and avid shooters are hunters. You can be both but don't have too to enjoy gun ownership.
The antis will try any ploy to deceive gun owners.

BB62
August 3, 2005, 10:55 AM
Agreed 100%.

http://www.huntersandshooters.com/

Here is the website - for those who want to see things for themselves, read it a bit and see if you don't "smell" something strange.


BB62

JohnBT
August 3, 2005, 11:21 AM
"Safe and ethical hunters and shooters know that they should never transfer a firearm to a stranger without first going to a licensed dealer or to local law enforcement to obtain a background check."

Do I have to go down to the police station for one of these here checks or can a patrol officer do it from his car? Is there a charge? How long does it take? ;)

John

Shovelhead
August 3, 2005, 11:34 AM
Sounds like a "Divide and Conquer" tactic.
Trying to separate the "Hunters and Sport Shooters" from the Self Defense group.

BB62
August 3, 2005, 12:56 PM
"Safe and ethical hunters and shooters know that they should never transfer a firearm to a stranger without first going to a licensed dealer or to local law enforcement to obtain a background check."

Why sure, I'll just ask Officer Friendly if he can do a background check - certainly asking for private use of their system is NO problem at all, is it?

:rolleyes:


BB62

WT
August 3, 2005, 01:13 PM
From a business point of view this is interesting.

The NRA leadership, speaking from their Palace on I-66 in Fairfax, VA, is quick to find fault with an alternate firearms organization.

There are some 80 million gun owners in the USA yet only 4 million belong to the NRA. Therefore, some smart person might see the remaining 76 million people as a market for an alternate gun rights organization.

AHSA could pose a serious threat to NRA's income.

BB62
August 3, 2005, 01:20 PM
"Therefore, some smart person might see the remaining 76 million people as a market for an alternate gun rights organization."

I wouldn't go that far, WT.

Read the website, and find out about the background of the top people. Hopefully you and other smart people would quickly see that AHSA is hardly "another gun rights organization" - it is instead an organization appearing to be one, populated by "sensible" antis who are intent from dividing sportsmen ("real" gun owners) from other mere gun owners (pond scum that they are).


BB62

WT
August 3, 2005, 01:27 PM
BB - I read the website before I posted.

The poor membership levels of NRA leads me to believe that another organization may pull in some other gun owners.

I know many who join NRA for one year and then fail to renew and drop out. NRA doesn't float their boat.

StephenT
August 3, 2005, 01:55 PM
Any time an organization justifies the 2nd amendment in terms of hunting rights, you know they're anti. AHSA is definitely not a pro-gun organization. A few hints from their website:

"According to legal memoranda filed in court by the United States Justice Department, the Second Amendment allows for the passage of reasonable laws designed to keep guns out of the wrong hands."

"AHSA believes the FBI should be given reasonable access to National Instant Check System (NICS) purchase records to insure terrorists and other prohibited individuals do not have access to firearms."
Translation: the FBI to keep gun records indefinitely.

"AHSA supports requiring all transfers of firearms at gun shows to be subject to all federal, state and local laws and regulations currently applicable to federally licensed firearm dealers including the conducting of the instant background check on purchasers."
Translation: let's close that darn gun show loophole again

"AHSA supports legislative efforts to regulate .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles in the same manner as machine guns are regulated under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934."
Translation: let's ban those dangerous 50 caliber sniper rifles.

In other words, AHSA is the new strategy of gun control, or gun safety as they now call it.

BB62
August 3, 2005, 02:06 PM
"Poor" membership levels? LOL.

The NRA doesn't fully float my boat either - I prefer to also support more hardcore organizations. But the AHSA is about the real thing as much as the WonderBra is.

There is no doubt some (clueless or ignorant) gun owners will join AHSA.

If you believe in divide and conquer, that some guns are good and others are EVIL - join up. Eventually, your gun and what you can do with it will be next.


BB62

WT
August 3, 2005, 02:11 PM
5% of total gun owners is good? What about the other 95%?

A former employee ties in with a competitor to form a new competiting organization?

Classic business challenges.

Conclusion: a wide open market for somebody new to come aboard.

scout26
August 3, 2005, 03:25 PM
Because of the potential for criminal misuse, the immense “fire power” and the potential for terrorist use,

All passenger aircraft larger then a Piper Cub should be banned.

IIRC, the .50 BMG has been used in exactly 0 crimes/terrorist incidents while the passenger aircraft has been used at least 10 times that I can think of off top of my head,for either criminal activity or terrorist incidents, .


Sounds just as a dumb doesn't it.

Titus
August 3, 2005, 03:33 PM
You realize what they are trying to do. Split hunters and sport shooters off from the rest of gun owners. If they can get the support from hunters and sport shooters on things like assualt rifles, CCW, and other things, in return for leaving hunting and sport guns alone, their job is much easier.

Yeah, "Do what you want with the girl, but leave me alone!" Too bad there are so many gun owners out there that feel that way. Well, I guess with the way so many are also quick to let you know that their gun ROOLZ and yours sucks, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some of them also figure it should be codified in the law. :)

Stickjockey
August 3, 2005, 03:40 PM
http://www.huntersandshooters.com/

Here is the website - for those who want to see things for themselves, read it a bit and see if you don't "smell" something strange.

>pokes nose into H&S website<

(sniff, sniff)

Yup. Somethin' fishy, all right. :scrutiny:

Bartholomew Roberts
August 3, 2005, 03:53 PM
Duplicate threads merged.

Rebar
August 3, 2005, 04:33 PM
Gee, I wonder who they'll endorse come election time?

pwolfman
August 3, 2005, 05:25 PM
Statements like these reveal the stripes on this skunk...

AHSA is committed to supporting our nation’s law enforcement officers in their fight against easy access to guns by criminals, terrorists and others.

AHSA is a non-partisan organization that advocates and advances sensible public policies. We will never support unfettered access to all types of weapons.

One of the most widely quoted statements about guns is that a firearm kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This comes from the Journal of Medicine in 1986, following a six-year review of gunshot deaths in Seattle, Washington, conducted by Dr. Arthur Kellermann and others.

Development of an ASHA comprehensive federal and state government relations program focused on reasonable laws and regulations that addresses law enforcement’s need for modern enforcement technologies required to maintain the highest level of public safety, denying criminal access to firearms and ammunition that pose the greatest danger to officer safety, while not infringing on the rights of hunters and shooters to pursue their sporting activities.

AHSA is an organization committed to supporting our nation’s law enforcement officers and first responders in their fight against easy access to guns by criminals, terrorists, and others who would abuse the right to keep and bear arms.

this last one could be any one of us with the simple swipe of the legislative pen...

meathammer
August 3, 2005, 08:14 PM
From AHSA's website: The .50 caliber BMG’s popularity lies not just with target shooters, but criminals, gangs and terrorists as well.

Nice sensationalism. Put .50 shooters in the same sentence as criminals and terrorists.

Personally, I like to drink beer, I guess that puts me right in line with hit and run drunk drivers and woman beaters. :barf:

Thanks for the warning about these jokers. Since I have a lot of friends and family who hunt (AHSA's target audience), I'll pass it along.

--meathammer

BB62
August 4, 2005, 10:08 PM
For those still unsure about the real intent of this "gun rights" group, here's more ammo - check out their origins and financial backers.

The least of their interests is in getting more than 5% of gun owners on board - instead this organization and others of the like are RKBA sounding organizations in sheep's clothing.

Like the Infinitesimal Mommies, they have no problem with lies.

I think some people need to ask themselves why such an organization has gone to such lengths to obscure reality, if not for nefarious purposes.

http://triggerfinger.org/weblog/index.jsp

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/08/democrats-set-up-fake-organizations-to.html

http://www.gunlawnews.org/history/ahso.php

etc.


BB62

Carl N. Brown
August 31, 2005, 03:43 PM
The huntersandshooters.com website was created and registered
25 April 2005 by DCS - Internet Advocacy Group at 600 Pennsylanvia SE,
Suite 200, Washington DC with AHSA having the same mailing address.
(Recently the website registration was transferred from DCS to AHSA to
conceal its origin.)

DCS (website: dcscongressional.com check it out) is one of those
groups that takes polls and dreams up strategies and propaganda
for the Democratic Leadership Council and dozens of Democratic
congressmen. The Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) occupies
Suite 400 at the same address.

AHSA started as a website and had no members and is not really a
real membership organization. It is ersatz, bogus, Potemkin village
propaganda product of an Orwellian Ministry of [UN]Truth, DCS/DLC.

AHSA is an alternative to Handgun Control Inc.

The leadership of AHSA (Rosenthal, Ricker, et al.) have a track record
of supporting every gun ban, gun prohibition and gun control scheme
of the Clinton administration and then some.

Rosenthal does not mention on the AHSA website that he is Co-Founder
of Stop Handgun Violence [by banning handguns] one of the Massachusetts
gun control groups.

AHSA is not an alternative to NRA: it is an alternative to IANSA.
I'm suprised Rebecca Peters is not on their staff.

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