[esskay]

I live in an area where fire sprinklers are mandated for garages and sometimes inside the house. Would you guys still get a safe with fire-resistant lining? Doing without the firelining means cheaper, lighter, and more importantly greater capacity in the same footprint.

Outgrowing the current safe so need a bigger one. Appreciate any feedback, thanks.

[Cesiumsponge]

What is the success rate for fire suppression systems? I'm completely oblivious if they are 99.99% reliable or they can fail with regularity if they get too old or require maintenence, etc. If the safe will be protected by fire suppression, make sure it's waterproof! Does no good if the fire is put out, but the water warped and rusted everything inside the safe.

[a1abdj]

Depends on what you're keeping in the safe.

For the longest time, most burglar rated safes were not fireproof. Jewelry won't melt, and burned money can be replaced.

I would think that most guns would survive in an uninsulated steel container assuming that the fire was put out within a half hour. If you already have a sprinkler system and a nearby fire station, then you would probably be ok.

Keep in mind though, it is better to be safe than sorry. That extra weight, money, and lack of interior space may become worth the sacrafice in the event you have a fire.

The reason gun safe companies have marketed fire rated safes, is that they have the masses believing that those safes are ok for storing valuable paperwork, photos, videos, heirlooms, and Hope Diamonds. They are good for guns, and that's about it. If you're using the safe for guns, I think you'd get by without the fire liner in your specific situation.

[brickeyee]

The typical addition to a safe for 'fire resistance' is layers of drywall on the interior. When heated the moisture in the gypsum is released preventing the temperature from rising until all the moisture is driven out of the gypsum. While effective for slowing the temperature increase inside the container, a steam bath is not exactly great for the condition of firearms.
If the safe is in a location with a sprinkler system it probably is not necessary to add the internal fire protection, but fires are strange things. A fire starting in the attic of the building may be beyond the reach of the sprinklers in the habitable areas and a lot of damage could still occur.

[goColt]

A local gunshop owner once told me not to waste my money on a fire-safe. He said since none are air-tight, the acidic smoke that gets into the safe from all the building material and other stuff that is burning in the house is going to ruin your guns. :(

I bought one anyway from Gander Mountain. Like was said earlier: Better to be safe than sorry.

I also am keeping my ammo separate from my guns. I figure the ammo might ignite in the safe if it gets hot enough and definitely destroy the guns in there with it.

[Jim K]

Sometimes, fire resistance (there is no such thing as a "fire proof" safe) is sacrificed for other considerations. For example, the Zanotti modular safe is not fire resistant, but can be installed almost anywhere, while non-modular safe installation may be limited by stairs, doorways, etc.

Jim

[sumpnz]

I also am keeping my ammo separate from my guns. I figure the ammo might ignite in the safe if it gets hot enough and definitely destroy the guns in there with it. If it gets hot enough to cook off rounds, your guns are most likely already ruined. Keeping ammo in the safe (at the bottom where it's coolest) is probably the best bet. Sometimes if the firefighters start to hear ammo cooking off becuase it's exposed in your closet rather the safe, they'll just let the fire burn your house to the ground.

[00blkgt]

Hey sumpnz I like the way you think :rolleyes: . Esskay I am a firefighter and have not seen ammo "cooked off" from direct flame impingement or the extreme heat of a structure fire. Even if they did fire off the responders would more than likely switch to an exterior attack for the fire and not let your place "just burn down to the ground." :what:

If you truly value your firearms I would reccomend the best quality that you can afford. I have not personally seen how well the contents made out after a fire in fire resistant safe. Most of my first due area are section 8 homes and I have never seen a fire resistant safe in any of them. I personally recommend that you check into the Liberty brand safes but having any of them is better than none.

[sumpnz]

Even if they did fire off the responders would more than likely switch to an exterior attack for the fire and not let your place "just burn down to the ground. Well, I had at least one person tell me that's exactly what was done when she was helping fight a house fire and they started having rounds cook off. Sneer if you want, but that's the story from someone that actually experienced that.

[a1abdj]

Amsec builds a nice composite gun safe. Better fireproofing than most of the gun safes on the market. Better security than most gun safes on the market. Cost less than some of the other brands.

[esskay]

Thanks for the feedback guys.... I'm thinking maybe I'll try to see how much more space I can free up for a fire-lined safe. Better safe than sorry seems to be one of the reasons people like us have guns in the first place... :)

[brickeyee]

You could also wrap the outside of the safe in a couple layers of type X drywall. 2 layers would produce a least a 1 hour rating.

[Silver Bullet]

I thought we’d decided (years ago) that there wasn’t much danger from rounds “cooking off” because they’re not in a chamber and barrel where all of their energy is focused on accelerating the bullet. (Except for a round in the chamber of a weapon).

My recollection was that the consensus was that the rounds would, at most, just pop like a firecracker but not “shoot” anywhere. That is, as soon as the bullet was pushed out of the cartridge, all the expanding gases would escape around the bullet and the bullet wouldn’t be pushed long enough to gain any significant velocity.

I never actually tested this. :)

[jason10mm]

I've seen/heard rounds cook off in fires before (usually when we are buring the trash barrels at the range that some idjit discarded live rounds into). They make a small "pop" and that's about it. No perforating the sides of a steel barrel, no big explosion.

I've thought about adding a fire resistant "coccoon" to the exterior of my el-cheapo Homak cabinets for ammo storage. Regular old home depot dry wall is sufficient? This would save me a TON of money since I figure no safe in my price range would deter a professional for very long and a good fire rating is also hella expensive. I would rather get a "decent" RSC and use the saved money for drywall and a better home security system than dump it all into the illusion of protection a RSC would provide. I have a police station and a fire station down the street, so all I need is to buy a little time.

[brickeyee]

Any gypsum product will provide some protection. The X rated has typically had fiberglass and other things added to strengthen it and it has been tested.
A couple layers of ½ inch bonded together with easysand and staggered joints will slow the temperature rise.
The mass of the bullets helps a lot also. It takes about 6 calories/gram to heat them up.

[willbrink]

"Amsec builds a nice composite gun safe. Better fireproofing than most of the gun safes on the market. Better security than most gun safes on the market. Cost less than some of the other brands."

As far as I know, AMSEC is the only company making a TL-30 rated gun safe with UL listed fire protection. Their BF series gun safes are probably the best of the RSC rated stuff.

[silverlance]

just bought a safe. cost me 500$. I was about to spend nearly a k on a really nice looking fire proof for 1 hour safe, but then i realized a few things:

a. electric lock = burglars f*king up your safe trying to break through
b. backup keylock = major vulnerability
c. nice looking safe has too much room taken up for shelves for things i'm not going to put in there
d. even the nicest gun safe at $1700 will not stop a sledgehammer (refer to a prev thr thread where some guy posted pics of safes in his store that he had smashed himself in under 5 mins)
e. i dont care if my guns burn and melt, i just dont want some jerk to be using them
f. the money i saved went to buying more home security and an additional, separate, ammo vault (a cheapie box-type safe that will keep any burglars from stealing my nearly $700 worth of ammo, much of it specialty ammo)

you agree?

[willbrink]

"you agree?"

There is no right answer here. Simply depends on what it is you are protecting, what level of security you want, and what your budget is to that end. I would not put a $1,000.00 gun collection in a 5k safe, nor would I put a $100,000 dollar collection in a $500 RSC. Personally, I think spending a % of the worth of what is being protected (some use 10% but I think 20% makes more sense) is a good way to go most of the time.

[Chipperman]

There is no real danger from loose rounds cooking off. A chambered round is another story.

...and there are numerous documented cases of houses being allowed to burn to the ground because the firefighters were concerned about ammunition/guns in the house.

[loktsafe]

As to fire-resistant safes in a structure with sprinkler systems: As stated previously, better safe than sorry! Forget about the ammunition - it's a mute point - no danger unless chambered in a barrel. As far as Amsec's TL30 rated safe with UL Fire listing: part of fire protection is moisture, and you have now locked your guns in a container full of moisture! Air must be circulated frequently (open the door) or a dehumidifier must be installed. Yes, smoke damage may and probably will occur to some degree - a door properly fitted and adjusted will keep this to a minimum. Most fire seals on safes nowdays swell as temp rises from a fire and the effectiveness of that seal will determine the degree of smoke damage. Guns contained in individual gun socks within a fire safe seem to survive best with minimal damage. Again, buy the best safe you can afford. Do your homework, and compare! Read the warranties very very carefully! Personally recommend Liberty and Champion safes.

[EVIL5LITER]

d. even the nicest gun safe at $1700 will not stop a sledgehammer (refer to a prev thr thread where some guy posted pics of safes in his store that he had smashed himself in under 5 mins)

Link?