Kennedy tried (and failed) to ban hollowpoints??


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benEzra
August 1, 2005, 09:09 AM
I'm seeing this on several news sites regarding S.397:

The Senate also brushed aside a Kennedy amendment that would have banned hollow-tipped, so-called "cop killer" bullets.

Aside from the fact that the Senator can't even keep the anti-gun talking points straight ("cop-killer" bullets being the usual prohibitionist term for anything that can go through Kevlar), does anyone have the actual text of this proposed amendment?

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beerslurpy
August 1, 2005, 09:12 AM
That is too funny if it is true. I'll look around but I would have expected him to propose a more expansive definition of "armor piercing" (to include all centerfire rifle ammo). That is one of his pet causes for a few years now.

Banning hollowpoints would have been equally stupid and harmful though.

Bartholomew Roberts
August 1, 2005, 09:58 AM
The Senate also brushed aside a Kennedy amendment that would have banned hollow-tipped, so-called "cop killer" bullets.

Actually all this shows is the abounding ignorance prevalent at most news organizations. Kennedy's bill had nothing to do with hollow-points at all. It banned the 5.7 pistol and ammo by name and also set up a standard where:

1) Any ammunition capable of penetrating a bullet resistant vest that could be used in a handgun would be banned (due to guns like the Thompson Contender, this means most rifle ammo is gone)

2) Any rifle ammo that was marketed as penetrating or armor-piercing would be banned (see any adds for bonded game loads or Barnes-X lately?)

Kennedy was a little smarter this year and kept his mouth in check a bit. Last year he specifically named .30-30 ammo as a horrible ammo that needed to be banned citing its ability to penetrate 600lb armored safes, armored limousines and various other mythical abilities. Pointed out in the past ten years, .30-30 had been used to kill three police officers which can only verify its inherently evil nature.

The quote is in the THR archives as well as the Congressional Record for debate on S.1805 from March 2004.

benEzra
August 1, 2005, 10:02 AM
Do you have a Senate Amendment number or anything for the FiveSeven amendment? I'd really like to get the text of that, but I can't find it on Thomas.

1 old 0311
August 1, 2005, 10:14 AM
I would like to see a bill prohibiting drunk Senators away from cars.I am sure Mary Joe's parents would back this. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Kevin

Kurush
August 1, 2005, 10:15 AM
Here it is:
SA 1615. Mr. KENNEDY submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 397, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:

On page 13, after line 4, insert the following:

SEC. 5. ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.

(a) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(2) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting a semicolon; and

(3) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that may be used in a handgun and that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor; or

``(iv) a projectile for a center-fire rifle, designed or marketed as having armor piercing capability, that the Attorney General determines, under section 926(d), to be more likely to penetrate body armor than standard ammunition of the same caliber.''.

(b) DETERMINATION OF THE CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated under paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the length of the barrel of the handgun or center-fire rifle from which the projectile is fired and the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.Did anyone else notice the video game amendment Hillary tried to put in? What a tool :rolleyes:

K-Romulus
August 1, 2005, 10:23 AM
SA 1617. Mr. CORZINE (for himself, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. SCHUMER, Mrs. CLINTON, and Mr. KENNEDY) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed by him to the bill S. 397, to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:


On page 13, after line 4, add the following:

SEC. 5. FIVE-SEVEN PISTOL.

(a) Findings and Purpose.--

(1) FINDINGS.--Congress finds the following:

(A) Law enforcement is facing a new threat from handguns and accompanying ammunition, which are designed to penetrate police body armor, being marketed and sold to civilians.

[Page: S9191] GPO's PDF
(B) A Five-seveN Pistol and accompanying ammunition, manufactured by FN Herstal of Belgium as the ``5.7 x 28 mm System'', has recently been recovered by law enforcement on the streets. The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are legally available for purchase by civilians under current law.

(C) The Five-seveN Pistol and 5.7 x 28mm SS192 cartridges are capable of penetrating level IIA armor. The manufacturer advertises that ammunition fired from the Five-seveN will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters and that the ammunition travels at 2100 feet per second.

(D) The Five-seveN Pistol, and similar handguns designed to use ammunition capable of penetrating body armor, pose a devastating threat to law enforcement.

(2) PURPOSE.--The purpose of this section is to protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by--

(A) testing handguns and ammunition for capability to penetrate body armor; and

(B) prohibiting the manufacture, importation, sale, or purchase by civilians of the Five-seveN Pistol, ammunition for such pistol, or any other handgun that uses ammunition found to be capable of penetrating body armor.

(b) Armor Piercing Ammunition.--

(1) EXPANSION OF DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION.--Section 921(a)(17)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(A) in clause (i), by striking ``or'' at the end;

(B) in clause (ii), by striking the period at the end and inserting ``; or''; and

(C) by adding at the end the following:

``(iii) a projectile that--

``(I) may be used in a handgun; and

``(II) the Attorney General determines, pursuant to section 926(d), to be capable of penetrating body armor.''.

(2) DETERMINATION OF CAPABILITY OF PROJECTILES TO PENETRATE BODY ARMOR.--Section 926 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

``(d)(1) Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this subsection, the Attorney General shall promulgate standards for the uniform testing of projectiles against Body Armor Exemplar.

``(2) The standards promulgated under paragraph (1) shall take into account, among other factors, variations in performance that are related to the type of handgun used, the length of the barrel of the handgun, the amount and kind of powder used to propel the projectile, and the design of the projectile.

``(3) As used in paragraph (1), the term `Body Armor Exemplar' means body armor that the Attorney General determines meets minimum standards for the protection of law enforcement officers.''.

(c) Armor Piercing Handguns and Ammunition.--

(1) IN GENERAL.--Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding after subsection (y) the following:

``(z) Five-seveN Pistol.--

``(1) IN GENERAL.--It shall be unlawful for any person to manufacture, import, market, sell, ship, deliver, possess, transfer, or receive--

``(A) the Fabrique Nationale Herstal Five-SeveN Pistol;

``(B) 5.7 x 28mm SS190 and SS192 cartridges; or

``(C) any other handgun that uses armor piercing ammunition.

``(2) EXCEPTIONS.--This subsection shall not apply to--

``(A) any firearm or armor piercing ammunition manufactured for, and sold exclusively to, military, law enforcement, or intelligence agencies of the United States; and

``(B) the manufacture, possession, transfer, receipt, shipment, or delivery of a firearm or armor piercing ammunition by a licensed manufacturer, or any person acting pursuant to a contract with a licensed manufacturer, for the purpose of examining and testing such firearm or ammunition to determine whether paragraph (1) applies to such firearm.''.

(2) PENALTIES.--Section 924(a)(1)(B) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking ``or (q)'' and inserting ``(q), or (z)''.

Rebar
August 1, 2005, 10:43 AM
Mr. CORZINE (for himself, Mr. LAUTENBERG, Mr. SCHUMER, Mrs. CLINTON, and Mr. KENNEDY
Remember this in 2008, when she's running for president. She'll try to talk a good game, "I'm for the 2nd Amendment blah blah blah", but when it comes down to it, she is and will always be a gun grabber.

Also remember this when you're thinking of voting for some 3rd party nobody who doesn't have a chance in hell of winning. If you're not voting republican, your voting your gun rights away.

rick_reno
August 1, 2005, 10:52 AM
Kennedy was a little smarter this year and kept his mouth in check a bit.

We should all send a note of thanks to Krispy Kreme. The reason his mouth was in check was it was full of donuts.

Beren
August 1, 2005, 10:52 AM
Last year he specifically named .30-30 ammo as a horrible ammo that needed to be banned

The funniest part last year was when Kennedy, in the same speech, claimed his amendment would not impact hunters. :D

obiwan1
August 1, 2005, 11:02 AM
Why does he keep getting re elected? :cuss:

KriegHund
August 1, 2005, 11:05 AM
Cop killer HP's...lol

And banning the 57? Yes, it is a so utterly common pistol FN is the devil! You see it flooding the streets and the dead babies...

gm
August 1, 2005, 05:46 PM
We should all send a note of thanks to Krispy Kreme. The reason his mouth was in check was it was full of donuts :D :D :D it certainly would appear that it is the case.. :D :D :D

Marshall
August 1, 2005, 06:19 PM
Why does he keep getting re elected?
The same reason Ma voted as they did below, they're loaded with democrats. They're the only state that didn't have at least one red county, possibly besides RI. Oh yea, and the legacy.




Massachusetts 2004 Election Results


Democratic Kerry
1,803,800 62% 12

Republican Bush
(Incumbent)
1,071,109 37% 0

Libertarian Badnarik
15,022 1% 0

Green Cobb
10,623 0% 0


http://images.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/elections2004/_images/2004countymap-final2.gif

Rebar
August 1, 2005, 06:41 PM
Why does he keep getting re elected?
The democratic machine here, with it's union thugs and fanatical left-wing students, is pretty much bulletproof.

beerslurpy
August 1, 2005, 07:56 PM
The left wing establishment is pretty much headquartered in NYC and Boston, so we shouldnt really be surprised that they supply the 4 most left wing senators in the union.

Silver Bullet
August 1, 2005, 08:08 PM
The Blue Counties need us, but we don't need them.

Standing Wolf
August 1, 2005, 08:48 PM
I don't believe we're showing enough respect to the Hero of Chappiquiddick.

Werewolf
August 2, 2005, 12:31 PM
(D) The Five-seveN Pistol, and similar handguns designed to use ammunition capable of penetrating body armor, pose a devastating threat to law enforcement.
(2) PURPOSE.--The purpose of this section is to protect the Nation's law enforcement officers by--
emphasis mine

Wouldn't passing this defeat the whole purpose of the 2nd Amendment which is to assure that citizens can protect themselves from a tyranical government?

Gee - our Pols aren't even trying to disuise their tyranny anymore.

Marshall
August 2, 2005, 12:36 PM
OK, who were the 10,623 that voted for Corn Cobb? :neener:

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