[Sven]

This is getting ugly, fast:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14406-2003Mar23.html

The Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera aired footage from Iraqi television Sunday of interviews with what the station identified as captured American prisoners, and also showed bodies in uniform in an Iraqi morgue that it said were Americans.

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld told CBS that if they are indeed coalition soldiers, "those pictures are a violation of the Geneva Convention."

[Sven]

Another source:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20030323/ts_nm/iraq_usprisoners_dc_2

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi television showed film on Sunday of at least four bodies, said to be U.S. soldiers, and five prisoners who said they were American.

Two of the prisoners, including a woman, appeared to be wounded. One was lying on the floor on a rug.

They were the first U.S. prisoners known to have been taken by Iraq (news - web sites). The prisoners were questioned on air and gave their names, military identification numbers and home towns.

[Glock_PhD]

If this wasn't some sort of sort or propaganda with their soliders in US uniforms they are in violation of the Geneve accords.

[Porter Rockwell]

So indiscriminate bombing of civilians is protected by the geneva accords?
POWS, not to worry your heads here folks. America has a perfect record of simply ignoring POW statistics (ya see numbers are different than soldiers!)
and just moving on.
Kiss The Boys Goodbye - Author Stevenson
READ IT!

[Drizzt]

So, are we currently bombing civilians indiscriminately?

Are we currently treating the THOUSANDS of Iraqi POWs at sub-Geneva Convention standards?

You're just dancing around your point without really saying anything...

[schmo]

Porter Rockwell: Please communicate better.

[Mike Irwin]

"So indiscriminate bombing of civilians is protected by the geneva accords?"

Please provide your evidence that there is any "indiscriminate" bombing of Iraqi civilians going on.

I think you'll find that to not be the case.

And, FYI, the Geneva Convention of 1949 doesn't address, as far as I can tell, civilians in areas held by enemy combatants, only civilians of foreign powers in areas held by opposing forces.

Check it out here:

Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilians in Time of War (http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/92.htm)

Oops, my bad. The copy I quoted didn't have the 1977 addendum...

1977 addendum to the Geneva Convention (http://www.deoxy.org/wc/wc-proto.htm)

As far as I can tell, the United States is taking GREAT pains to comply with all aspects of this agreement -- especially in its approch to 5 a.

[Mike Irwin]

Oh, and one last point.

I'm not 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure that Iraq's employing human shields around military targets, even voluntary human shields, is a violation of international protocols, perhaps even a war crime.

You'll also remember that during the first Gulf War Iraq started placing AA guns on tops of schools, hospitals, etc. The United States and other coalition forces pointedly left those alone, because even though they constituted a clear threat to US forces, and even though their placement made those sites legitimate targets under international protocols, the US was not about to begin destroying targets which it knew were primarily civilian.

[Drjones]

Time to turn Iraq into a parking lot.

We've been dropping millions of leaflets on them for weeks.

They know what's coming.

Some civilians have already left.

Those who haven't...haven't heard of Darwin.

Tough.

Parking lot.

[Porter Rockwell]

Thanks for the link to the UN and their rules for the world Mike!
I'll attempt to make this more clear,
I'm concerned about Americas consistant history of flushing POW/MIAs down the memory hole.
I'm concerned with Americas consistant history of bombing civilians.
I was listening to President Bush discussng his "game plan" on the radio and his comment on hw thankful he was that Iraq has not used any WMDs.
Could it be because they don't have any?
Iraq has no real Air Force, Navy or Army, this TV war strikes me as massive over kill.
As an American war veteran who was taught that the world menace was communist because they did actually have WMDs (and still do) I fail to see any viable threat from Iraq.
If we were to compile a list of middle eastern countries tha have willfully attacked and killed Amricans and possess WMDs the top two would be Saudi Arabia and Israel.
Americans are fighting and dying as we sit here for no reason I can think of.
The USSR/Russia or what ever they're called these days still have nuclear missles targeting Amrican populace that are short minutes away in their subs just off our shores, Israel has uncounted nuclear devices and like Iraq has refused UN inspection.
As for proof of massive civilian deaths the BBC is broadcasting live on your Orwellian Programing Box.
I think it's time for me to tip a few cold ones at the VFW with some vets that understand colateral damage propoganda.
Best!

[El Tejon]

Porter, I'm confused. Are you saying the American militree is really bombing Iraqi civilians and just not telling anyone?

[Flying V]

More to the point, does Porter think that if the US were indiscriminately bombing civilians, that Iraqi TV would for some reason refrain from broadcasting the evidence 24/7? For that matter, if the US is bombing indiscriminately, why do Baghdad's electricity and water still work?

[Sir Galahad]

Here we go again with the "Iraq is innocent/Israel is guilty" BS. At this point, Porter, I'd say all that you say is suspect as leftist drivel. Whenever I hear "Israel is bad", my BS meter goes right off the scale. Because sandwiched in "Israel is bad" rhetoric, you find such gems as "Zionists (the PC was to say "those dirty Jews") control the media and the U.S. goverment." Or this gem: "Zionists control the banks."

So, let's see. Jews, er, Zionists can control the whole world and pull all the strings but Saddam Hussein has NEVER supported terrorism? There's some fine oceanfront beach houses for sale here in Arizona while I've got your attention.

[Mike Irwin]

"Thanks for the link to the UN and their rules for the world Mike!"

You're welcome. But remember, the United States is a signatory to that convention, so those are OUR rules for warfare, too. Remember, too, that I don't have a huge case of bleeding *** about the United Nations. I'm not fond of the fact that the United States is in the UN, nor am I fond of some of the things that are promulgated through the UN, but all in all I don't wear a tin-foil anti-UN mind control cap that some apprently do. Currently I view major league free agency as being a greater threat to the American way of life than I do the UN.

"I'm concerned with Americas consistant history of bombing civilians."

At one time, virtually every military/government viewed civilians as legitimate targets. The US certainly did, as did Britain, Germany, France, Russia, etc.

Unfortunately, civilians sometimes are on the receiving end. Certainly over the last several actions the US has taken GREAT pains to ensure that civilian casualties are as limited as possible.

It would be a wonderful thing if wars could be fought with no impact on civilians at all, but that's pure fantasy. If US leaders didn't care about civilians casualties, you'd see B-52 with dumb iron carpet bombing Baghdad. That's not happening though, is it? So I'd have to say that your claim of "consistently" no longer lives up to the accusation.

As for collateral damage propaganda, which you and your buddies seem to have the handle on, riddle me this...

If all of this is simply propaganda, that would mean that you believe that CNN, FOX, BBC, Sky news, Al Jezeera, etc., are obviously collaborating WITH the American military to hide the inferred "tremendous civilian casualty count" in Iraq.

That would mean that this is some sort of huge conspiracy that even includes those news crews who are broadcasting from Baghdad, not to mention the print and radio jounalists in Iraq, as well a the people in the newsrooms here and in the Gulf -- or thousands of people.

That would, finally, mean that the military has taken control of the free press, not just the airways, but also print, in a huge collateral anti-Constitutional, anti-First Amendment conspiracy.

There's a fly in that ointment... Let me put my finger on it...

AH! Al Jeezera! They're not controlled by the United States, nor are they particularly friendly to the United States.

Yet even they aren't screeching about massive loss of civilian life.

So, unless this is a vast, global conspiracy controlled by the council of 13 Jews, I REALLY have to question whether you believe this or not...

[Sir Galahad]

As far as bombing civilians, Porter, I suppose then that you think bombing Germany and Japan was uncalled for? How about Vietnam? (You know, you pointed out communists as a threat.) So, then, our keeping ICBMs targeted at the then-Soviet Union was an abomination? (Since you pointed out communists and Russia.)

As far as Israel willfully killing Americans, you're probably referring to the Liberty incident. Well, the Israelis believed the Liberty was supplying data on Israeli military movement to their enemies during the war the Liberty was monitoring. There is some evidence that the U.S. was, in fact, doing just that. Israel, coming from a people nearly wiped out just a couple decades prior, is going to do whatever it deems it has to to survive. How can we, as Americans, havng never been through a Holocaust, understand that? It's easy to sit and judge Israel, but I would wager until you've smelled your family burned at Aushwitz, you're judging wrongly. When the Egyptians and their allies attacked Israel, their intention was to wipe them from the face of the earth. So you can surely see that Israel will do whatever is necessary to protect not just their nation, but their faith, their race, their culture, and their future on the planet. The Liberty incident was unfortunate, but one lesson learned by Kissingerite foreign policy "experts" who think it's a good idea to support both sides in a war.

[Mike Irwin]

V,

"For that matter, if the US is bombing indiscriminately, why do Baghdad's electricity and water still work?"

Well, the OBVIOUS answer to that is simple. The United States has developed new "civilian seeker" warheads that go onto its bombs. These hunt out ONLY civilian targets based on complex computer programs.

They're programmed so that when seeking targets, they ignore adult men, in favor of adult women, and ignore both in favor of children.

The US is also working VERY hard on developing a bomb that, if detonated in a crowded square, will kill ONLY the women and children, and leave the men alive.

As for Saudi Arabia having weapons of mass destruction, say what? Nothing I've seen claims that they have anything even approaching a WMD.

Well, this has been fun, but I think the reflections from the tin foil hats are messing with my radio reception.

[Hkmp5sd]

During the first Gulf War, over 1,000,000 Iraqis headed for Jordan. There are not any heading that way now.

Could it possibly be that during the first Gulf War, they feared what Saddam may do and during this war, they DO NOT fear being injured or killed by US forces and have faith that the US will protect them from being cannon-fodder for Saddam?

[Mike Irwin]

WOW!

I'm now a believer!

I just saw a rogue, First Amendment loving reporter in Baghdad scream into his microphone "There are MASSIVE civilian casualties!"

He was then jumped and hacked to pieces, on camera, by 8 men with paises and yarmulkas!

After the blood stopped flowing, another man who looked distinctly like David Ben Gurion came on and said "None of this ever happened. You will forget it all," and the screen went black!

It's true. I'm scared.....

[Sir Galahad]

Mike, LOL!!!! ROTFLMAO!!!:D

Aren't those bombs commonly known as "civilian busters"? I also heard the U.S. is dropping cluster munitions in which the bomblets look like toys out of Happy Meals. And U.S. tanks have been playing ice cream truck music from loudspeakers to lure Iraqi children out of hiding with promises of fudgecicles and bomb pops (no pun intended) so they can use the .50s on them and not have to waste shells blowing up the houses (which will be used as the resettlement by Zionists takes place.)

[Tamara]

The Arab satellite station Al-Jazeera aired footage from Iraqi television Sunday of interviews with what the station identified as captured American prisoners, and also showed bodies in uniform in an Iraqi morgue that it said were Americans.

Fine.

That's the way they want it?

Game on.

:fire:

[LawDog]

*sigh*

Gawd.

Lights out.

LawDog