11-year-old Fresno girl who threw rock to be tried for felony


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Drizzt
August 3, 2005, 08:24 AM
11-year-old Fresno girl who threw rock to be tried for felony

By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer

Posted: Tuesday August 2nd, 2005, 8:15 PM
Last Updated: Tuesday August 2nd, 2005, 8:15 PM

FRESNO, Calif. (AP) - An 11-year-old girl arrested on a deadly weapon charge for throwing a rock during a water balloon fight is scheduled to be tried Wednesday after talks between her attorney and prosecutors failed to produce a plea bargain.

Maribel Cuevas was arrested in April for throwing a two-pound rock at a neighborhood boy who had pelted her with a water balloon. The rock gashed the boy's forehead, and the girl spent five days in Fresno's juvenile hall and a month under house arrest after police said she resisted arrest and scratched an officer's arm.

Since then, the girl's behavior and law enforcement's response to it has become water cooler and editorial page staples far from Fresno. The girl's parents joined church leaders and the state chapter of the Rev. Al Sharpton's National Action Network in a vigil last week. They say the felony charge in no way matches her childish crime.

But Fresno's mayor and police chief say Maribel's case was handled appropriately, and that assault with a deadly weapon is the proper charge for an act that might have had fatal consequences.

Lisa Bennett, a legal assistant for defense attorney Richard Beshwate Jr., said last-minute efforts to avert a trial were fruitless. "Even though there may or may not be good offers, having her plead guilty to a crime is not acceptable," Bennett said Tuesday.

As a result, Maribel was scheduled to have a full trial beginning Wednesday morning in the Juvenile Delinquency Division of Fresno Superior Court. A court commissioner who specializes in family law, Kimberly Nystrom-Geist, will preside over the hearing, which was expected to last all day and include about 20 witnesses, Bennett said.

Alvin Harrell, the Fresno County assistant district attorney who supervises juvenile cases, said court rules prohibited him from discussing the case or even acknowledging the trial is happening. But in an unusual move for a case involving a minor, the trial will be open to the public.

Witnesses are expected to include Elijah Vang, the boy who was injured by Maribel and who has acknowledged throwing a water balloon at her; a teenage girl who was in the same yard as Maribel when the altercation took place; police officers; the emergency medical technicians who initially treated the boy; and relatives and neighbors of both children, according to Bennett.

The defense strategy will include showing that Maribel's action was provoked, and that she had been subject to harassment before, Bennett said. "This has occurred more than once so Maribel's reaction may have not been unwarranted," she said.

Maribel maintains she was playing on the sidewalk with her 6-year-old brother on April 29 when Elijah rode by on his bike with a half-dozen neighborhood boys, who splattered them with water balloons.

The girl threw a rock that police later described as "jagged" and measuring 5.5 inches by 3.75 inches and it hit Elijah on the head, opening a gash that required stitches. While she ran to find Elijah's parents, a neighbor called 911.

Elijah's family, which has since moved away, is testifying for the prosecution but is not expected to be a hostile witness for the defense, Bennett said, adding that his parents declined to press charges.

In a statement issued shortly after The Associated Press published a story about the case, Fresno Police Chief Jerry Dyer defended his department's decision to arrest the girl and seek a felony charge.

"The simple fact is that we have an 11-year-old girl who struck a boy in the head with a jagged-edged, two-pound river rock, that required him to have stitches," Dyer said. "That is a felony, assault with a deadly weapon, and we are very fortunate that that act did not cause a more serious injury, even death."

http://www.bakersfield.com/state_wire/story/5589956p-5564153c.html

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beerslurpy
August 3, 2005, 08:55 AM
I did stupider and more malicious things than that at older ages. Part of growing up is learning what things are innapropriate to throw at other people when you are playing.

Souris
August 3, 2005, 09:17 AM
Quick introduce legislation to register and ban rocks!!

HankB
August 3, 2005, 09:25 AM
Well, since the authorities are making such a big deal out of it, I expect the defense can base a defense on "the police not only tolerate, but protect, JUVENILE SEXUAL HARASSMENT, which is a form of SEXUAL ABUSE!!!"

If it happened before, OMG, it's PART OF A PATTERN OF SEXUAL ABUSE! :eek:

The little girl would ONLY get wet? ONLY? You ever hear of a WET- T-SHIRT CONTEST?!?! The little perv wanted to SEE HER . . .

You get my drift.

(For the record, I don't believe the little boy was a perv - most likely, he was just overly rambunctious and needed a swat on the backside. But hey, if they can enter the realm of the absurd and actually prosecute a felony charge against a little girl who threw a rock back at a little boy who threw water balloons at her, anything goes.)

rick_reno
August 3, 2005, 09:45 AM
A 2 lb rock! Isn't that a 14,000 grain projectile? Let's see now, if the dreaded 50 calinber fires a 700 grain projectile (I'm rounding to keep the math easy for some of our readers). that means that little Maribel must have at least a 1000 caliber arm. She's clearly a new breed of assault weapon, and I have no doubt she was constructed using imported materials (food) from off our shores. Why isn't Homeland Security involved in this? Someone call Attorney General Gonzales - quick. She sounds like a bad huevo to me, being capable of hurling a 14,000 grain projectile and hitting a boy. Next she'll be aiming that weapon at jet airliners, chemical plants and who knows what else. I expect to see a report from Violence Policy Center about this threat.

Augustwest
August 3, 2005, 09:48 AM
I'm not a fan of government or the legal system, from the cops on up to the courts, but 11 years old or not, throwing a 2lb rock at someone's head sounds like felony assault to me...

pax
August 3, 2005, 10:15 AM
Sounds like her parents hired an astute defense lawyer. She's got a good chance of getting off entirely if they try to take that in front of a jury.

pax

firefighter4884
August 3, 2005, 10:24 AM
I guess my issue comes into play because she was defending herself.

She shouldn't have been charged with anything, period. And to have the city / county / state follow up, even after the victim's parents declined to press charges is stupid.

Doesn't the police department have real work to do? Like what they're paid for, instead of harrassing 11 year old girls for defending themselves, and other innocents...?

grrr...this brings my blood to a boil...

CAS700850
August 3, 2005, 10:30 AM
Been there, done that:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=147700&highlight=maribel+cuevas


And, no thank you, I don't care to pick up where I left off, and no, I haven't changed my opinion.

Hawkmoon
August 3, 2005, 11:25 AM
Interesting to see that, while maintaining his moronic stance that the arrest was justified, the chief of police is already changing his story. Now the deadly weapon was a 2-pound, jagged edged rock. The day after the incident, IIRC, it was a "boulder."

enfield
August 3, 2005, 11:31 AM
The girl's response was inappropriate, and the charge is justified. However, the victim should also be charged with assault & battery since he was the instigator. JMHO

migoi
August 3, 2005, 11:47 AM
in the whole story: "Elijah's family, which has since moved away, is testifying for the prosecution but is not expected to be a hostile witness for the defense, Bennett said, adding that his parents declined to press charges."

It looks like the boy's family has enough smarts to see what happened. Boy gets 6 of his thuggish friends together and decide to go harrass a local girl. Girl fights back. Boy injured. Boy's father says something along the lines of: "Seven of you threw water balloons at her and taunted her? That'll learn ya." Too bad city officials aren't that smart.

migoi

DirtyBrad
August 3, 2005, 11:54 AM
"The simple fact is that we have an 11-year-old girl who struck a boy in the head with a jagged-edged, two-pound river rock, that required him to have stitches,"

Anyone hear echoes of black guns with pistol grips and flash-suppressors here? First off, why does he throw in that it's a river rock? I swear these people think that the more adjectives they can throw in front of something, the more evil it sounds. Second, this fella's not too familiar with the erosive properties of moving water.

Hitting an 11-year old girl with a water balloon? Sounds like something funny to do on my lunch hour.

Pilgrim
August 3, 2005, 11:55 AM
Sounds like her parents hired an astute defense lawyer. She's got a good chance of getting off entirely if they try to take that in front of a jury.
Contested juvenile proceedings do not take place in front of a jury.

Pilgrim

MrTuffPaws
August 3, 2005, 11:55 AM
Hold on here. Maybe I am just ignorant of the legal system, but if the parents of the boy did not press charges, then what is the crime here? Is the DA really that stupid to push the matter when those directly involved already dropped the case?

thumbody
August 3, 2005, 12:14 PM
She was not attacked by just one boy there were several,
When I was in 7th grade a group of 5 or 6, 8th graders thought lunch time entertainment was throwing basketballs at my head (this went on for 2 or 3 days). After a set of broken glasses and reporting them to a teacher I had enough!
The next day I wore a pullover hooded sweatshirt to school and befor lunch I went outside and loaded up with rocks about the size of golfballs. When the first basketball came my way I started unloading.
That was the last time those kids messed with me. So I applaud her for standing up for herself in the face of those bullies

Gordon Fink
August 3, 2005, 01:04 PM
Quick introduce legislation to register and ban rocks!!

Israel has needed this kind of legislation for decades!

Seriously, though, spankings all around seem like the most appropriate response to me.

~G. Fink

dolanp
August 3, 2005, 01:17 PM
Seriously, though, spankings all around seem like the most appropriate response to me.

GASP! Why that's felony aggravated child abuse!!

Augustwest
August 3, 2005, 01:26 PM
Having read the article in the other thread, I'm going to backpeddle a bit, and see if there's more information forthcoming. I'd like to hear more about what the boys actually said and did.

Still seems to me that a rock in the head in response to a water balloon is a very unbalanced response...if it was more than a water balloon and "nyah nyah nyah," then I'll reconsider.

Old Dog
August 3, 2005, 01:34 PM
Fred Reed wrote a pretty good column on this situation recently ...
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Maribel.shtml

A river rock? Are they more deadly than regular rocks? Is that like the difference between a "high-powered rifle" and a regular rifle? Or a "fully-loaded gun" and a loaded gun? A "Black Talon" or a regular jacketed hollow-point?

CajunBass
August 3, 2005, 01:44 PM
You know. I'm not sure I could throw a two lb rock hard enough to hurt anybody. I do know for sure I wouldn't hit anybody with it.

rick_reno
August 3, 2005, 01:52 PM
A river rock? Are they more deadly than regular rocks?

Yes, they are more deadly than regular rocks. River rocks have been shaped by eons of water rushing over them, rounding them into a shape that has a nearly perfect ballistic coefficient for effortless flight thru the air. ********** legislators will be acting to outlaw water running over and around rocks.

MechAg94
August 3, 2005, 02:07 PM
You can cause a cut requiring stiches with a rock a hell of a lot smaller than that. I am surprised an 11 year old could throw a 2 lb rock hard enough to hurt someone much less hit them. The boy must have been slow.

I do think the parents of the girl should press assault charges on all the boys just to force the idiotic prosecutors to prosecute everyone.

Fletchette
August 3, 2005, 03:04 PM
Ok, so why is this girl's name in the papers?
Why is it a felony, not a misdemeanor (if they even exist anymore)?
Why didn't she just get grounded - no recess for a week?

CAS700850
August 3, 2005, 03:05 PM
Okay, I said I wasn't going to pick up this thread again, but here I go. What would you all prosecute these boys for? As I said last time, I simply do not see an attack with water balloons as a violent attack, more like one of those childish things we all did with neighborhood children.

I do not believe that Maribel's actions were warranted as "self-defense", but at the same time I do not see reason, as a prosecutor who spent several years on the Juvenile staff, to prosecute her with a felony offense, especially if the boy's parents don't have a strong desire to go forward.

By the way, in many jurisdictions, charges are actually brought by the D.A./prosecutor, and the victim is just another witness. It helps reduce the risk of retaliation against a victim (and brings it on the D.A. instead).

Z_Infidel
August 3, 2005, 03:26 PM
I'm sure glad all the dangerous and ornery things kids did with and to each other when I was growing up didn't lead to criminal charges and law suits. Now, it's not right for several boys to go picking on a girl -- no wonder she threw a rock. The police should give the parents a talking to and let that be the end of it. Of course, that assumes the parents are capable of being parents. What a society of weenies we've become.

JohnBT
August 3, 2005, 03:36 PM
"I am surprised an 11 year old..."

You haven't met my neighbor's granddaughter - 5'3'' or 4" and 150+. She can run, jump and throw. Wait a minute, she's only 10. :)

John

Beren
August 3, 2005, 03:48 PM
The only crime here is that she didn't bloody the faces of ALL those little punks assaulting her.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/08/02/BAG2EE1BNU1.DTL&type=printable

Text:

Fresno -- Until the afternoon of April 29, 11-year-old Maribel Cuevas' only connection with law enforcement was involvement in a mentoring program sponsored by the Police Activities League.

But that day a rock she says slipped from her hand struck Elijah Vang, 8, in the forehead. A 911 call led to Maribel being arrested by Fresno police officers, handcuffed and taken to Juvenile Hall, where she stayed for five days before a judge released her on the condition she wear an electronic ankle bracelet.

On Wednesday, Maribel is scheduled to go on trial in Juvenile Court on felony assault charges. Authorities say the rock-throwing incident was too serious to be treated lightly.

But critics of the Police Department's actions, including Maribel's father, say the treatment would have been different if Mirabel wasn't a Latina living in one of the city's poorer neighborhoods.

"If this was a middle-class or upper-class neighborhood it would have been a very different outcome," said the Rev. Floyd Harris Jr., who led a 100- person vigil Friday in front of Juvenile Hall to support Maribel.

"Police don't have the same respect for people of color in this town," Harris said.

Fresno's mayor, Alan Autry, commended the department in a statement. "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact the consequences could have been tragic."

Maribel says she was defending herself against Elijah and other boys who had thrown rocks and water balloons at her and some of her younger siblings while they were playing behind the low chain-link fence of a relative's front yard in their largely minority neighborhood.

"She's a good girl. She's never been in trouble,'' said Martin Cuevas, father of the girl. "We are worrying what is going to happen,'' the father of six said in Spanish in a telephone interview in which he said he was surrounded by his children, ages 12, 11, 9, 6, 4 and 1.

"A criminal they don't treat like this," he said. "(Maribel) will never have trust in the police after what they did to her."

Police defended their actions, saying Maribel intended to hurt the boy and resisted arrest, kicking toward the officers and scratching one on the arm.

"As far as the criminal investigation and how it was resolved, the matter was handled in an appropriate way," said Sgt. Anthony Martinez, a Police Department spokesman. However, because of complaints, the department has opened an investigation of the handling of the case, Martinez said.

If convicted, Maribel would probably not be incarcerated, but criminal justice experts questioned the severity of the charges.

"Usually stories like this make headlines because there is something intuitively outrageous," said Michael Vitiello, a criminal law professor at McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento. "This is very uncommon given the ages of the children involved and all the other ways it could have been handled."

Maribel's case has attracted international attention, seemingly getting notice everywhere but in Fresno, even though the local paper has run several stories and letters to the editor.

"I was a little surprised it was more of a national and international issue," said Ken Shockley, a city spokesman. "We haven't gotten a lot of local anger or feedback. The negative e-mails have been out of state and out of the country."

Organizers of Friday's vigil say Maribel's treatment proves the need for an independent police auditor, an idea the mayor favors but the City Council has rejected. A meeting is scheduled for Aug. 27 to create a community "cop watch" program to monitor police actions.

Maribel's father said his daughter has suffered both mentally and physically from her incarceration and the intense pressure regarding her court date.

She has required doctor's visits and medicine, her father said, and a trip to a psychologist last week. "It's affected all of us a lot.''

A field-worker who earns $250 a week, Martin Cuevas says his daughter's situation has prevented him from working. "I have to go to her appointments, the lawyer, the doctor," he said.

Maribel's lawyer, Richard Beshwate, blames part of her treatment on inaccuracies in the initial police report of the incident. The report is weighed by judges, probation officers and the district attorney in deciding a case's disposition.

The police report listed Maribel's age as 13 and said she threw a 5-pound rock at Elijah, whose age was misstated as 6. He is 8. The rock caused a 4- inch gash, the report said.

A report from the hospital where Elijah was taken said the cut was 1 1/2 inches. It required several stitches. After earlier press reports, the police said the rock was actually 2 1/2 pounds. Maribel says the rock that left her hand was much smaller.

The Vangs have since moved and were unavailable for comment. Maribel's lawyer said the father of the boy, although unhappy about his son's injury, expressed regret that charges were filed against the girl.

"They misassessed what they had and didn't spend any time to investigate, " Beshwate said. "They arrested her and handcuffed her and asked questions later."

Police reports and interviews with witnesses describe the incident this way:

Maribel told her lawyer's investigator she and her 6-year-old brother were playing the front yard of a house with another boy, also 6, and his sisters, ages 4 and 3.

Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.

Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.

She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead.

Maribel's brother gave Elijah a towel to hold over his bleeding cut. She said she went to Elijah's house to tell his parents he was hurt, but they weren't there.

When she returned, Maribel's mother was there, as were police officers.

"I placed her into handcuffs and she began struggling with us," the police report says. "She threw herself to the ground and started kicking at" one of the officers, the report continues. "We were able to get Cuevas into the back of the patrol vehicle and she began kicking the door and continued crying."

Cuevas was taken to Juvenile Hall. A witness said the officers told her Maribel would be back in several hours. Instead, she stayed there five days before a hearing.

"It was filled with cholas (gang girls)," said Martin Cuevas. "My girl isn't anything like that. It was traumatic."

Told she would be returned to Juvenile Hall if the bracelet did not show she was home by 3 p.m., Maribel refused to return to school.

After being allowed by her school to leave 30 minutes early to ensure she arrived home in time, Maribel returned to classes.

At a hearing the following month, a judge allowed her to stop wearing the bracelet.

Martin Cuevas said there is one bright spot -- reaction and support from around the country.

"There has been a lot of anger about what they've done to us," he said. "We've seen letters on the Internet from Miami, Florida, all over ... people are very helpful because this is about children and the way they're treated."

riverdog
August 3, 2005, 04:04 PM
Calif. Girl, 11, Avoids Felony Trial (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050803/ap_on_re_us/girl_charged) Looks like it's sorta over. DA probably wanted this to go away and the defense would not plead her to a felony. Maribel will not have to plead guilty, but she will have to participate in a mediation program in which she will be required to meet with her young victim and talk about the fight. Like they couldn't have done that the day of the incident. Since the boy started it, who's the real victim?

Aren't they teaching proportional response theory in grade school these days? :rolleyes: If anybody over reacted it was LE. Kids being kids -- neighborhood thugs threw stuff at her and she threw stuff back, at 11 yo that's a proportional response.

Fletchette
August 3, 2005, 09:24 PM
Why is this girl's name being printed? I thought that was against the law...

MICHAEL T
August 3, 2005, 11:08 PM
Don't take water balloons to a rock fight. :D

Pilgrim
August 3, 2005, 11:19 PM
Hold on here. Maybe I am just ignorant of the legal system, but if the parents of the boy did not press charges, then what is the crime here? Is the DA really that stupid to push the matter when those directly involved already dropped the case?
Crimes like this are against the People of the State of California. It does not matter if the victim is willing to press the issue.

Once upon a time domestic violence was ignored by the district attorney if the victim did not want to "press charges" against the offending spouse. As a result, California law made it clear the district attorney could prosecute the offender even if the victim did not want to cooperate with the prosecution. You can probably assume the prosecution of eleven year old Maribel is an outgrowth of this philosophy.

Pilgrim

Pilgrim
August 3, 2005, 11:22 PM
Why is this girl's name being printed? I thought that was against the law...
Normally this is true. But if the child's parents go to the press and release the kid's name, there is no prohibition against publishing the kid's name. If you noticed, there are websites naming the girl. The government sure as heck didn't create those websites.

Pilgrim

mrwiggins
August 3, 2005, 11:23 PM
whats the world coming to, i don't even wanna go to cali on vacation, i don't even wanna see it.

migoi
August 3, 2005, 11:30 PM
a case of equal force with the revelation of this information: "Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.

Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.

She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead."

Seven little thugs throwing not only water ballons but rocks also. Now we can begin to understand why the boy's parents don't want to press charges. Outnumbered, hit twice in the face with water ballons, twice with rocks, being taunted with who knows what types of slurs or even threats of more violence being brought to bear on her. Sounds like justifiable defensive actions to me.

Who does she get to see about getting the 5 days of her life back?

migoi

HonorsDaddy
August 4, 2005, 12:14 AM
...is in about 7 years, this young lady will be an adult, with a very healthy distrust of government.

The more silly crap like this happens, the more people will realize the idiocy of the modern "justice" system.

Hawkmoon
August 4, 2005, 12:32 AM
Fresno's mayor, Alan Autry, commended the department in a statement. "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact the consequences could have been tragic."
I think the reporter misquoted the mayor. Seems like what he was really saying was "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact it was just a childhood dispute."

And the cops, kvetching because she was crying when they put in the patrol car -- in handcuffs. I wonder how brave the big bad policeman would have been if HE had been arrested and handcuffed at the age of 11.

What a bunch of morons. I'm glad the attorney was able to stalemate the idiot prosecutor and get her off.

pete f
August 4, 2005, 12:37 AM
man I feel dirty just living in a country in which this happens. 1 girl vs 6 or 7 boys and one gets a cut and a bloody head and SHE gets blamed. Gee I hope my best friends sister does not read this
I egged her one Halloween and she broke my nose. kicked it flush with my face, man I could put her away for years.

Fletchette
August 4, 2005, 01:52 AM
man I feel dirty just living in a country in which this happens. 1 girl vs 6 or 7 boys and one gets a cut and a bloody head and SHE gets blamed.

Well, it was her own fault! She wasn't wearing a burka!







********** is lost. :barf:

Gillster
August 4, 2005, 08:01 AM
Looks like cooler heads finely prevailed. SHe didn't have to plead guilty and if she stays clean it will be erased. She just has to sit down and talk about the incident with the "victim".

Chris

Hawkmoon
August 4, 2005, 10:47 AM
I wonder if the same jurisdiction would ask a rape victim who had shot her assailant to sit down and talk with the rapist ...
:banghead: :barf:

JohnBT
August 4, 2005, 10:53 AM
Well, if they threw the first rocks - fair is fair. I say let her go.

John

GunGoBoom
August 4, 2005, 11:55 AM
Is the DA really that stupid to push the matter when those directly involved already dropped the case?

Yes.

DAs do it all the time in domestic violence cases (prosecute with an uncooperative victim), but that's because they HAVE to, by state law. Here, they had a choice - apparently just arrogant and dumb. It will blow up in their face if she is acquitted at trial - we'll see.

Edited: Oops, I see the DA caved - Ha, ha.

CAS700850
August 4, 2005, 12:40 PM
First, a brief mea culpa. In all the while, I never notcied that Maribel had rocks thrown at her in addition to the balloons. I suppose that trying to read threads and talk on teh phone about work was too taxing for my brain, and reading suffered for it. I now understand where the "self-defense" angle fits into this situation.

Second, as to D.A.'s pushing through charges when victims are either uncooperative or simply do not want to go forward...GunGoBoom mentions D.V. cases. Yes, there are D.V. cases when I force the victim to participate and cooperate with the prosecution. Is it wrong to push a situation where there's a known criminal with a history of similar crimes (I do felony level D.V., which means at least one prior conviction) that is going to get away with a violent offense unless I push a victim? Granted, I will often go along with a victim, and drop charges. But, if there are significant injuries, or if there are children in the home, I will push hard. Especially with children in the home.

Flame away.

Master Blaster
August 4, 2005, 01:14 PM
Well I think that the LA pd swat and the office of homland security should send the entire lot of them to GITMO.

Then the californica legislature should pass a law to put a serial number of every rock in the entire state, so that the next this happens police will be able to catch the perpetrators instantly.

Beren
August 4, 2005, 01:26 PM
Then the californica legislature should pass a law to put a serial number of every rock in the entire state, so that the next this happens police will be able to catch the perpetrators instantly.

Wouldn't have helped here - she threw their own rock back at them. The serial number would have been traced back to the "victim." :D

Gray Peterson
August 4, 2005, 03:34 PM
FYI,

Alan Autry, the mayor of Fresno, played Lt. Bubba Skinner in "In the Heat of the Night" back in the late 80's/early 90's.

gm
August 4, 2005, 06:15 PM
dont give them any ideas,theyll be chiseling numbers on every rock and brick in the state :D

bcochran
August 4, 2005, 06:19 PM
Charges dropped.

Any one want to wager on whether this child/person will have similar problems in the future or not?

Phyphor
August 4, 2005, 08:04 PM
Doesn't the police department have real work to do? Like what they're paid for, instead of harrassing 11 year old girls for defending themselves, and other innocents...?

What? In 20+ Murder-A-Year-Fresno, CA? The cops actually have something to DO? Go figure!

Seriously, you'd think they would have let that one go (as of now, from what I understand, she WON'T stand trial, ) seeing as there's much, much worse things going on. But of course, they gotta go for the easy ones....

Phyphor
August 4, 2005, 08:11 PM
Seriously, though, spankings all around seem like the most appropriate response to me.

Hell yea. My parents spanked me, and I never did anything worse than bust out a car window when I was 10 or so, (and that wasn't done intentionally, that was sheer stupidity + golf balls + golf clubs + front of friend's house... we were TRYING to reach the cotton field down the road....um...my ball didn't reach the intended target.. )

GASP! Why that's felony aggravated child abuse!!

Clearly, anti-spanking laws work!!!! I mean, it's made all our kids much kinder and gentler and less likely to commit crimes out of hand...oh wait...

</sarcasm>

Phyphor
August 4, 2005, 08:15 PM
The only crime here is that she didn't bloody the faces of ALL those little punks assaulting her.

While I might not go THAT far, it does smack of "punish the victim for fighting back. "

Kinda reminds me of Jim March's situation.......

RevDisk
August 4, 2005, 09:25 PM
Wait a second. Six or so boys were throwing rocks at her first in addition to other projectiles? Her sin was mailing a "return to sender"? She'd have been completely justified in shooting them, let alone throwing a single rock back.


A buddy of mine in Fresno told me that the infamous boulder that the Chief was showing off? Wasn't the rock in question, according to BOTH parties involved. (The girl and boy) Not sure how reliable that info is, but it seems about right for these folks.

Geesh, every time more information comes out, the Fresno PD keeps looking worse and worse. I dunno. Couple of little punks intentionally going to someone's house to pelt them with rocks? Me thinks they weren't just "having some fun".

UnintendedConsequences
August 4, 2005, 11:32 PM
The lesson she has learned is that is it WRONG to protect herself and/or trust that the police are her friend. Honestly, I think she was rather reserved in only hitting one boy. I think she was justifed in hitting every boy that hit her, and using whatever level of force she felt was necessary to stop the threat.

If I had been her father and the police officers wanted to do the stupid act of cuffing her for self-defense, I would make sure the officers lost their job and would be unable to work anywhere in the state. I would also sue the city for being a pack of idiots.

However, as I am in a rural area rather than that city, my daughter would know how to use proper force to terminate a threat and would also know how to use a firearm to defend herself. Those boys would also be held for pickup by their parents by me.

The feeling I get is that city must enjoy making the victim feel even more victimized if they fight back. I would rather see that girl have broken the noses of her attackers and perhaps given them a good concussion as a good lesson in not being little criminals.

When I was still in elementary school I had older kids that continued to pick on me even when I tried to walk away at the bus stop. After a couple mornings of this I finally had enough. The next boy that thought he had the spherical fortitute to pick on me, I clocked him as hard as I could on the side of the head and made his ear bleed. I never saw that boy at the bus stop again and for a couple months all the other kids at the bus stop left me alone.

There is a lesson in using overwhelming force, and drawing blood, in self-defense. Once you make an example of a bully they cease to be a threat and educates other bullies that you will make them pay dearly for their stupidity.

Oleg Volk
August 5, 2005, 12:46 AM
My sentiments on this are pretty clear: http://olegvolk.net/text/afterschool.txt unprovoked attack with a rock ought to be treated as a felony, but self-defense with a rock or a Gatling should be entirely legitimate.

Sindawe
August 5, 2005, 02:35 AM
There is a lesson in using overwhelming force, and drawing blood, in self-defense. Once you make an example of a bully they cease to be a threat and educates other bullies that you will make them pay dearly for their stupidity. Exactly. Every time my family moved, I had to deal with bullies who felt that since I was the "Fat Kid", I was easy prey. Kids can be SOOOO stupid sometimes.The feeling I get is that city must enjoy making the victim feel even more victimized if they fight back Of course. Helpless victims empower those who "know better" and will "take care of you". Those who can look after themselves have no need for such parasites, and hence are a threat to their authority and postion.

But I really should no slight true parasites in such a fashion...

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