A view from Mexico on U.S. gun control


PDA






cuchulainn
August 3, 2005, 10:07 AM
FWIW

From El Universal

http://www2.eluniversal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=11425&tabla=miami

U.S. Arms Fuel Drug Violence on Border

Mexico's strict controls, coupled with loose ones in the United States, have turned the nation into a lucrative market for small arms traffickers.

BY JONATHAN ROEDER AND JORGE ALEJANDRO MEDELLÍN/The Herald Mexico/EL UNIVERSAL
August 03, 2005

As the U.S. government continues to criticize Mexico for failing to control rising drug-related violence, many of the guns used in the recent wave of killings are smuggled into Mexico from the United States, according to defense officials.

Last week, police in Nuevo Laredo used machine guns, grenades and a rocket launcher to attack a house allegedly occupied by drug smugglers, and the residents answered with powerful guns of their own. On Monday, two grenades hurled during a cockfight in Jalisco killed four people and injured dozens of others. The conflict was believed to be drug-related.

The recent headlines show that drug traffickers are not shying away from using more powerful and sophisticated weaponry and most of it is believed to be smuggled in from the United States.

"It's logical that illegal arms enter from the United States because the United States is an enormous market for guns," said security specialist Jorge Chabat, who works at the Center for Economic Teaching and Research. "It is easy to get the guns there and it is very easy to cross the border with them."

"It's a problem that goes back years," he added. "In diplomatic reunions, the Mexican government constantly complains to the United States about the arms trafficking and says the U.S. government should do more to prevent it."

Recent seizures have shown the weapons obtained by organized crime are increasingly powerful.

Military and federal officials have seized from drug traffickers Barrett 50 mm machine guns. Too powerful to be hand held, these weapons are mounted on vehicles and can pierce conventional car armor or even light military vehicles. Authorities have also confiscated lighter machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers.

Sources from the National Defense Secretariat (Sedena) have identified numerous cities on the border with the United States through which illegal arms flow. The arms are also hidden among legitimate merchandise packed on boats.

Naval officials say they are fighting a losing battle in trying to control the illegal flow.

"It is physically impossible to check the thousands of containers that arrive at the nation's principle ports, so inspections are forced to be random," said one official.

According to Sedena, many of the guns entering Mexico illegally from the south border are leftovers from the civil wars that plagued Central American nations such as El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua in recent decades.



BILATERAL COOPERATION

Jorge Serrano Gutiérrez, who heads operations on illegal arms at the federal Attorney General's Office (PGR), says cooperation with the United States is good.

"We have close communication with U.S. agencies in charge of following the arms trade," Serrano Gutiérrez said in a recent interview. "We exchange information with them. We give them tips, they pass us tips."

However, Chabat said he wasn't sure the exchange was going as well as it might.

"Yes, there is cooperation, but I am not sure how effective it is," he said. "Part of the problem is the lack of gun control (in the United States). And if there is no control over who buys guns within the country, it is really tough to control them being smuggled over a border 3,000 kilometers long."

Mexico's gun control laws are much stricter than in the United States. Individuals may purchase pistols or lighter caliber rifles, but only after obtaining a license following an exhaustive background check and then registering the firearm with the federal government.

Relaxed gun legislation in the United States especially in border states such as Arizona and Texas and the long and porous U.S.-Mexico border facilitate the flow of arms from north to south. However, Serrano Gutiérrez said that federal officials have so far been unable to pinpoint where the trade is most active.

He added an international agreement approved at a recent United Nations conference required nations that manufacture arms to mark weapons so they can be more easily traced.

"This is going to help us out a lot," Serrano Gutiérrez said.

When asked if more sophisticated weapons might cross Mexico's borders, he responded, "Up until now, the arms that we have seized are about as powerful as they get. I don't think they can get any more powerful."

If you enjoyed reading about "A view from Mexico on U.S. gun control" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Boats
August 3, 2005, 10:14 AM
I'd hate to be on the receiving end of a Barrett 50mm machine gun! :rolleyes:

It might just be me, but I have to think that maybe the main problem in this story is Mexican nationals with no respect for the law or civil authority on either side of the border, coupled with the famously inept and corrupt law enforcement of the Mexican government.

Neither of which are new problems. But again, maybe I am the only one who sees it that way.

wingman
August 3, 2005, 10:17 AM
Mexico's gun control laws are much stricter than in the United States. Individuals may purchase pistols or lighter caliber rifles, but only after obtaining a license following an exhaustive background check and then registering the firearm with the federal government.

Bull, license=money, got money, got license in mexico. Guess what
all Mexico needs to do is shut there border off they have enough
unemployed to do so. :cuss:

thereisnospoon
August 3, 2005, 10:22 AM
Cuchulainn,

Good to see you ...interesting article

Jedi_7.62
August 3, 2005, 10:33 AM
NAFTA is the answer!

Free trade.

I'll give them back 1 illegal mexican and they can give me 1 barret 50 mm machine gun.

We would all be happy and imagine the crime it would prevent.

That is what I call a WIN WIN situation.

I bet if we sent back all the illiegal mexicans that have moved here in the last ten years and they sent us all the american weapons in Mexico we would still have a surplus of cheap labor and Mexico could be free of pesky american guns.

geekWithA.45
August 3, 2005, 10:38 AM
Incidentally, this is a set play from the http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=27287&stc=1, which reads in part:

Whenever thou gun controllest efforts shall fail, as they innevitably must, cry unto the people, "Oh! Oh! Our noble efforts have failed because of the laxness of our neighbors!"

ClonaKilty
August 3, 2005, 10:41 AM
Holy crud this is some of the worst journalism I've seen in years. Where to begin?

On Monday, two grenades hurled during a cockfight in Jalisco killed four people and injured dozens of others. The conflict was believed to be drug-related...Authorities have also confiscated lighter machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers....

None of which came from any American gun store, even the class IIIs I'd bet (anyone know of a class III dealer who has been robbed lately?). Just keep fanning the flames of misinformation, why dontcha?

"Part of the problem is the lack of gun control (in the United States). And if there is no control over who buys guns within the country, it is really tough to control them being smuggled over a border 3,000 kilometers long."

Well it looks like the Mexican press has educated this man according to their wildly misinformed, anti-American agenda. As we all know here on THR, we certainly do have gun control in the US. Last time I bought a gun, I had to have an "exhaustive background check," endure a waiting period, and in CA had my guns registered and was required to have a license to buy a handgun, which isn't too different from what they say Mexico's gun control regs are:

Individuals [in Mexico] may purchase pistols or lighter caliber rifles, but only after obtaining a license following an exhaustive background check and then registering the firearm with the federal government.

And this is my favorite part of the story: the point is to contrast Mexico's strict gun laws with America's supposedly "lax" laws. But of course the journalist ignores the blatantly obvious question:

With so much wonderful gun control in Mexico, how come there is so much gun violence there???

DelayedReaction
August 3, 2005, 10:44 AM
Heck, I'm jealous. Mexico gets access to Barrett's stuff before we do? I want a 50mm machine gun!

You know what? If they're so concerned about guns getting into their country, why don't they secure their borders?

rick_reno
August 3, 2005, 10:54 AM
President Bush, in an interview with Cavuto on Fox said "I can assure the America people that we're following every lead, that we're doing everything we can to keep us protected." Given this statement, I'm sure our borders are secure. I'm not worried, we've got a friend in the White House.

Interview transcript here http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158960,00.html

Waitone
August 3, 2005, 11:03 AM
That's rich.

Mexico complaining about American law and how America's lack of enforcement causes them trouble.

All of which begs a question. When we start the integration of the North American Community (US, Canada, and Mexico in a European Union kinda thingy) what will happen to US gun laws since our sister countries don't permit paeons and subjects to possess firearms without hassle? Whose side will Bush show up on?

Since Bush vowed to protect the borders, can I assume he has just committed to putting the back door on its hinges?

Nightfall
August 3, 2005, 11:07 AM
Amazing how when gun control doesn't work in an area, it's always the fault of another. It's Virginia's fault DC and New York have high crime. It's America's fault Mexico has a high murder rate.

No wonder I can't get a rocket launcher or 50mm MG ( :rolleyes: ), they're all being smuggled into Mexico! :banghead:

armoredman
August 3, 2005, 11:33 AM
So that's how the Chiapas rebels got thier full auto AKs - bought 'em at Jensen's in Tucson! YEAH, RIGHT!!!
What a stinking pile of horse dung, but with a state run press bent on running down the US, it's just what Fox told the editors to publish. Mexican citizens will never know the differance anyway. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Rebar
August 3, 2005, 11:44 AM
Well, even though the Soviets and Cubans dumped tens of millions of ak-47s, and other weapons of all types into central America to destabilize and create communist governments, those couldn't have gotten into Mexico, right?

Carl N. Brown
August 3, 2005, 11:44 AM
Up to 1968 my home county had prohibition of alcohol. 1968 store sale
of hot beer for home consumption was legalized, followed by liquor stores,
then sales of cold beer with meals at restaurants, and finally sales of
mixed drinks at restaurants.

Under full prohibition, bootlegging was a real problem: of course, it was all
the fault of Virginia for having legal liquor. Our prohibition laws would make
life better, then when it failed, that was blamed on legal alcohol in other states.

Bootlegging joints sold beer and booze, pot, pills, pistols and porn, and
served as meeting places for gambling and prostitution. One bootleg place,
nicknamed the Bucket of Blood, had regular fights. Then the "evil demon
rum likker lobby" began rolling back the restrictions and alcohol trade
actually came under some control. Illegal traffic was no longer economic
and bootlegging dried up.

Mexico's gun problem is like Sullivan County's alcohol problem:
restricting legal traffic does not stop illegal traffic. Bootleg smugglers
are the problem, like the legendary Empress Phoenix Chinese ship
caught with 2,000 full-auto AK47s in Oakland CA in the 1990s.
Those grenades, bazookas, machineguns, etc. are not coming from
Arizona or New Mexico sporting goods stores, and sorry Rebecca Peters
et alia, restricting US RKBA is not going to stop illicit traffic in military
small arms by international gangsters.

You can only successfully ban things that NO one wants, for licit or
illicit use, like exploding home heaters or asbestos insulation. Banning
guns or alcohol creates a black market more likely to pander to abusers.

CAnnoneer
August 3, 2005, 11:51 AM
+1 Carl

Also, some scum-of-the-earth drugdealers smoked one another with smuggled guns here. I think this is an occasion for celebration!

1 used gun= $300 cost
1 dead trafficker= $40,000 per year in savings

If they smoked an LEO, that's another matter, but here we have an ideal situation - scumbags taking each other out of OUR collective misery.

TheEgg
August 3, 2005, 11:58 AM
Barrett 50 mm machine guns.

I got this far and stopped, because I realized I was wasting my time reading an article written by a pin-head.

jefnvk
August 3, 2005, 12:18 PM
In diplomatic reunions, the Mexican government constantly complains to the United States about the arms trafficking and says the U.S. government should do more to prevent it

Hmmm...

And we ask them to stop the illegal people trafficking, and their response? Give a little, get a little.

Now, I don't really see where full autos and grenades are bring bought in America anyway, for the purpose of being smuggled to Mexico.

Kurush
August 3, 2005, 12:36 PM
Sources from the National Defense Secretariat (Sedena) have identified numerous cities on the border with the United States through which illegal arms flow. The arms are also hidden among legitimate merchandise packed on boats.Gotta love carefully worded sentences like these. OK Mr. Journo-Propagandist, since you didn't specify it, in which direction, exactly, are the illegal arms flowing?

cuchulainn
August 3, 2005, 03:37 PM
good to see you too spoon

El Tejon
August 3, 2005, 04:25 PM
As one who works for Mexican nationals, I often ask where one would buy a gun in Mexico if one wanted to avoid bribing the local officials. I often hear the response, "from the police". :uhoh:

Many other weapons are smuggled into Mexico, not from the U.S., but the southern border of Mexico from South and Central America. Who wants a $400 Mini-14 when you can have a $50 full-auto AKM or a PKM (yes, a PKM!) for $500. :eek:

I was surprised to hear how many rural Mexicans own .22s officially and many, many other guns unofficially. ;)

dasmi
August 3, 2005, 04:30 PM
My standard response to anything the Mexican media, or government, says about the US, is...well I can't say that here, so "bite me."

Marshall
August 3, 2005, 05:11 PM
Well, at least someone in the US is getting some money back that the Mexicans send home. :evil:

Luchtaine
August 3, 2005, 05:47 PM
I guess they don't like things crossing their borders Illegally... boo hoo.

I suggest a new border policy for every illegal they let go across we should send over a gun!

Besides yes when I was considering pirate hunting the South American Black market would have been the place to accrue weapons, not your local gun store. Which sarcastically means I agree with the above statement their southern border is the problem not the northern one.

PinnedAndRecessed
August 3, 2005, 05:52 PM
two grenades hurled during a cockfight

Yea, I'm sure they picked these up at the local ********** Walmart.

Don't like our "liberal" gun laws? Then stay out of America! And don't let the door hit you on the way out, either!

:fire: :fire: :fire:

Carl N. Brown
August 3, 2005, 06:18 PM
I did not realize that Ronnie had gone into competition
with Bofors by marketing a 50 mm machinegun. How
does the 50 mm Barretts compare to the 40 mm Bofors?
The biggest Barretts I ever fired was .50 inch caliber.
I'll never make it as a journalist, I'm just out of the loop
on the latest and greatest. ;)

Art Eatman
August 3, 2005, 06:49 PM
50mm machine gun? At 25.4 mm per inch, that's a Big, Big Barrett!

I don't think it's something I'd ever put my shoulder against...

:), Art

O.F.Fascist
August 3, 2005, 07:17 PM
You cant stop the free market.

End the war on drugs, give people the right to keep and bear arms in Mexico.

LawDog
August 3, 2005, 07:45 PM
September 15, 1847: Mexico City surrenders to American forces.

We should have annexed the whole bloody country as spoils of war, but noooo.

*sigh*

LawDog

garyk/nm
August 3, 2005, 07:47 PM
"It's logical that illegal arms enter from the United States because the United States is an enormous market for guns," said security specialist Jorge Chabat, who works at the Center for Economic Teaching and Research. "It is easy to get the guns there and it is very easy to cross the border with them."

"It's a problem that goes back years," he added. "In diplomatic reunions, the Mexican government constantly complains to the United States about the arms trafficking and says the U.S. government should do more to prevent it."

News Flash!
Mexico calls for a closed border with U.S.!

:evil:

Standing Wolf
August 3, 2005, 07:48 PM
Mexico needs a revolution.

Hot brass
August 3, 2005, 10:48 PM
Too bad mexico, I feel the same way towards illegal imagration. Kiss off and deal with YOUR problem. #@%^ing whiners. :fire:

Malone LaVeigh
August 3, 2005, 10:52 PM
Well, even though the Soviets and Cubans dumped tens of millions of ak-47s, and other weapons of all types into central America to destabilize and create communist governments, those couldn't have gotten into Mexico, right?That's called "Ignoring the plank in one's own eye." The US armed as many or more thugs in Central America as anyone.

Waitone
August 3, 2005, 11:27 PM
Mexico needs a revolution.Won't happen as long as the social pressure bleeds off into the US. Fox owes Bush big time for saving his lilly white keester.

beerslurpy
August 3, 2005, 11:46 PM
This is all bull????. The only guns routinely smuggled OUT of the US are pistols. Everything else can be bought from the crooked militaries of all of these countries. Most of the illegal full auto in this country is smuggled from Mexico. Eg- the LA bank robbers used a mexican govt issue FAL.

Ironically the US does not actually have a proliferation of military hardware at the moment because the existing gun culture is well fed through existing channels.

The Mexicans should ask their own military where they are getting these guns from.

Sindawe
August 3, 2005, 11:48 PM
September 15, 1847: Mexico City surrenders to American forces.

We should have annexed the whole bloody country as spoils of war, but noooo.

*sigh*

+1x10^6 on that one LawDog. Maybe we still should, since SOOO MANY of Mexico's citizens wanna come to the US.

SIGarmed
August 4, 2005, 12:28 AM
Lies and more lies. These socialists will stoop to any level to blame America first. Corrupt sellouts, lack of morals, and integrity is what hurts Mexico. Maybe if the Mexican governemnt at all levels tried doing something honest for a change things would work for the better.

hifi
August 4, 2005, 01:35 AM
The article acknowledges the obvious. Guns go south and drugs and people go north. Who wrote this, Captain Obvious?

If you enjoyed reading about "A view from Mexico on U.S. gun control" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!