[Dionysusigma]

Almost everyone here carries a gun daily for self-defense and/or has a gun at home for defending one's property. Well, some (many) of us use guns that are seen by the Left as not "politically correct." Case in point, my SAR-1 (AK clone) is my HD gun.

So, what would be seen as PC? Would a SxS 12ga for home defense and a Glock 22 (or whatever your local police carry) be more "justifiable" in front of a jury? Would a .38 be more PC than a .380 semi-only Mac clone? Would a FN 5.7 loaded with hollowpoints be seen as worse than a CZ-52 loaded with ball?

Heck, even on that same line, would defending yourself using a halberd or Scottish claymore (in your home) be viewed better by a jury than using, say, an M1 Carbine?

And for those of you that have used a gun to defend yourself, and had to go on the stand, did it even really matter?

[ZeroX]

I would say most people probably would find the least against a SxS 12 gauge or some .22 rifle. Of course, I'm not about to base a gun choice off of something like that.

[dasmi]

I make every effort to be as politically incorrect as I can be. So...who cares?

[slopemeno]

Lets see... S&W pencil barreled model 10, but if you want to bend the rules a little how about a 4" Model 13. For a shotgun, hmm. Lefever Nitro Special in 12 ga. shortened to about 24". Short enough nobody would notice, but lightning fast handling. Longun-Winchester Model '94 in .30-30.

[pbhome71]

I agree with the Win 94. One of these day I need to get one of that.

[Rexrider]

You really want to be PC about home/personal defense?

Don't have gun, don't defend yourself, and be a good little victim. You are allowed to dial 911 and wait for a response.

You may not be alive when the Police show up (by no fault of the Police...all they can do is react to your call) but you will have at least died a very PC death.

Well...that's my opinion, I could be wrong.

[toivo]

For what it's worth, it seems to me that the general public is least scared of "cowboy" guns: SxS shotguns, lever-action rifles, SA revolvers. These guns get a lot of exposure through TV and movies, but people don't tend to associate them with modern-day war, crime, etc.

Pump shotguns, "black rifles," semi-auto handguns, etc. are the most scary to them because the modern bad guys in the movies use them. In people's carjack nightmares the bad guys don't carry pearl-handled Peacemakers.

[RevDisk]

Heck, even on that same line, would defending yourself using a halberd or Scottish claymore (in your home) be viewed better by a jury than using, say, an M1 Carbine?

Not likely. You want a shorter weapon. Halberd and claymores are a bit longer and would likely put holes in your wall instead of the bad guy. Try a short sword or a battle axe.

I think a regular boring shotgun would be uh, PC home defense.

If ya want a weapon that will look good in a court room, get pink furniture for whatever weapon you pick. Be a bit hard for a prosecutor to wave around a pink weapon while raving on about how dangerous and evil it is.

[C-grunt]

+1 for the pink gun theory :D

[Byron Quick]

I don't think that's really going to be a problem in Oklahoma.

I'm not worried about it here in Georgia.

I tend not to go places where it might be a concern.

[1 old 0311]

If you are worried about PC or Courts use what your local Police use. If you need to use it the Courts will be hard pressed to prove excessive gun for the job.

Kevin

[Zach S]

Yes, but the courts might make a big deal about you using a popular "police weapon" without "police training."

I dont really care about PC, I'm certainly not gonna care about it if I need something now. If I have my 18 round Kimber with a 2.5lb trigger and a non-functional grip safety in my hand at the moment, I'm not gonna put it away to get my springer milspec.

[Matthew748]

I think just about any lever action rifle would fit the bill. In some parts of the country I think this is a valid concern. If I ever use a gun in defense and end up on the stand because of an anti-gun zealot of a district attorney, I would sure rather see my Marlin 1895 on the evidence table then my DSA FAL.

[scubie02]

I'd second the 4" model 10 for a handgun. Years ago I interviewed for an armored car job and they insisted you use a 4" 38 special because the insurance was cheapest and it was perceived as the least offensive apparently.

the 94 winchester would probably be good too ("looks like grandpa's old deer rifle..."), MAYBE a side by side, but I bet an over and under would seem even MORE innocuous--heck, only bird hunters and trap shooters and such shoot those, right?

[Camjr]

In most parts of Texas (excluding Austin), most people consider politically incorrect to not take an active role in protecting your property and family. I remember a story from 5-10 years ago in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that simply read "Homeowners 3, Bad Guys 0" after several unsuccessful home invasions in the same night.

Lever action Win '94 in 30-30 is perfect due to length if using a rifle, but I prefer shotgun/pistol and large protective herding dog.

[TheDutchman]

A good PCG is one that can shoot the weapon out of a bad guys hands. Has to be a Pastel color say petal pink. Yeah I am in Austin so it has to shoot green ammo.

[CAS700850]

Wooden Louisville Slugger, preferably with Roberto Clemente's name stamped on it. :D

I recall reading about years ago, one self-proclaimed expert recommended using the guns that were commonly thought of as one's that "good guys" used. With that in mind, he recommended the Smith 66 with 2.5" barrel (Secret Service issue), the Smith 13 with 3" barrel (FBI issue), the Colt Detective Special (Joe Friday on Dragnet), or any 4" .38 revolver (if it's good enough for Barney...). At the same time, he recommended against any military weapon, unless you were a WWII veteran, and it was what you used in the war.

There's some logic here. Kind of hard to put the "evil black gun" image into the mind of the jury, when invoking the Secret Service's name, or something similar.

[bakert]

A politically correct gun?? Surely you jest!! :uhoh:

[Dirty Bob]

Almost any double action revolver

Whatever semiauto the local police issue

"Hunting" shotgun (SxS, or vent rib pump)

Winchester "Thutty thutty"

When I lived in an apartment in San Diego (Navy), I had paper thin walls and neighbors in almost all directions (except to the rear of the apt.), so I kept a 30" chunk of 2x4 that was left over from building my desk.

Better yet, move to Texas and don't worry about it!

Regards,
Dirty Bob

[GunGoBoom]

Sorta PC, very effective in the role (semi-auto rifles with wood on them):

-M1 Garand
-M14 style
-M1 Carbine
-'Super' VEPR .308 (probably the ultimate PC-looking HDR)
-Mini 14/30

Quite PC, perhaps less effective in the role:

-Leverguns!
-Old Milsurp turnbolts (SMLEs, Mausers, Mosins, etc.)
-Revolvers
-Shotguns with wood furniture

http://www.ak47.com/Products.htm

[dpesec]

a water pistol. Nobody gets hurt only wet. the victims think can defend themselves, and the badguys can do what they want to the intended victims.
Talk about a win-win.
Totally Politically Correct :neener:

[WT]

The 4 cases I am personally aware of all used revolvers. The prosecutors found them to be legitimate cases of self defense and never went to trial. No civil trials resulted, either.

[Souris]

<sarcasm>Just make sure that it's on the approved list for CA.

It just don't get any more PC than that. </sarcasm>

[Dave Markowitz]

"PC gun" is an oxymoron.

[Sam Adams]

I'm with the "*** cares" crowd - esp. with regard to the Leftist morons. Dead is dead, and I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6 any day.

More seriously, a good defensive gun use will be a good defensive gun use no matter what the gun. A decent lawyer can cut through the PC BS that any assistant DA will throw at a jury, so that the jury will rule on the facts.

Besides, the one you have to impress the most with your defensive gun isn't the jury - its the BG or BGs who are playing home invasion in YOUR home. Giving them the sound of a pump action 12-gauge, followed quickly by a close-up of a .70 caliber hole tends to persuade many of them to forfeit the game.

[absolute0]

Gotta be my Marlin 1894 .44 levergun...every kid should have one :D

[GunnySkox]

A cellphone or your keychain, clutched in your cold, dead, bloodied hands is the only thing that would be PC enough for the antis.

~Slam_Fire

[GEM]

We know from jury research that gun appearances may influence simulated juries in some circumstances. The most important issues are to get a lawyer who is cognizant of these issues at trial and for you to keep your mouth shut and try not to appear as a commando gone wild after the shooting.

[DelayedReaction]

PC or not, my evil black Saiga 12 is staying where it is.

[Sam Adams]

The most important issues are to get a lawyer who is cognizant of these issues at trial and for you to keep your mouth shut ....

Correct. Here's some good advice that I got at law school from my Crim Law professor, for when you are questioned by the police:

1) Shut uppa you mouth!

2) Call your lawyer. If you don't have one, get one - ANY one - since if he's not competent to handle a criminal case, he'll recommend someone who can do it.

3) Repeat #1, unless the guy in #2 says otherwise, and then only say EXACTLY what he tells you to say.

[Moonclip]

While it should not be your #1 priority in selecting a defensive firearm, I do feel using something like a Tec 9/Mac 10 clone for HD or such just sets you up for problems in court in some areas.

I read somewhere once that in the few cases where a class 3 weapon was used for defense, the case always went through more legal procedings than normal, grand jury, ect.

[Rebar]

A single shot 20 gauge looks almost like a toy, that'd be my vote.

[Kurt S.]

Long guns: Mid priced ($500-$2000) O/U shotgun in trap/skeet/clays configuration, Win 94 in .30-30, bolt action .22 rifle.

Handguns: S&W Model 10 4", single action "cowboy" gun (Colt Peacemaker clone, Ruger Blackhawk, etc.).

But put me in the crowd that says anytime, anywhere whether Texas, Alaska, New York, or Illinois that you use a firearm in self defense you better have had a good reason, and get ready for the fecal rain that's going to come down.

[BryanP]

Handgun: Revolver. A .38spl +P.
Shotgun: Either a SXS or a blued pump action with wood furniture.
Rifle: Lever action. Thutty thutty.

Personally I keep a .38spl+p in the nightstand. Lever gun in .357 magnum in the closet.

[Justin]

I've never seen evidence that the type of ammo or gun used in a defensive situation had any bearing on the outcome.

If anyone can reference a case where it did make a difference, I'd be interested to read about it.

[campbellcj]

Around here, if you want to be "PC" you'd put a "Slow Children" (LOL) sign in your front yard and have a faded John Kerry sticker (still) on the back of the SUV/Volvo Wagon, plus a "Baby on Board" sign stuck on the door glass. :barf:

More seriously, if you were trying to 'conform' to some perceived standard, you would want something like a Beretta 92FS and a Remington 870P. Or whatever your local LEO's carried. And you'd want to try to determine/use the same ammo as well.

I can't see why that would truly matter if things really came down hard, but clearly it wouldn't hurt, either, IMO. The main thing is to behave sanely and appropriately at all times...

[Moonclip]

Massad Ayoob has talked about certain cases where weapons or ammo choice has had a bearing on the case. While I do not 100% agree with all his writings it may be worthwhile to peruse some of his old articles from the Ayoob files about this.

There may be some truth to this because how many of you have heard of PD's, whom have the luxury of a great legal defense behind their actions, issuing guns that were perceived to be more PC. Some 357mag revolvers have even been purpously made in 38spl for this reason.

[Dr.Rob]

Cowboy Up!

Nothing 'mall ninja' about a model 24 Winchester or Stoeger coach gun.

Most sheeple don't take a Single Action Revolver as 'seriously' as a Glock.

But Justin is right... I've never heard of a DEFENSIVE use of a particular firearm (ie weapon choice) questioned by a prosecutor (unless you count Waco... which is well out of a 'standard' case).

Now if you have watched and "true crime" TV you know there ARE cases where someone 'defended' themselves with a knife and stabbed the 'bad guy' 33 times and ended up in jail on manslaughter or sued to bankruptcy. It seems there IS a bias when using knives/bats/blunt objects etc by males who 'went to far' in an act of 'self defense.' So I'd say using a broadsword/axe/hachet CAN have disadvantages.

Guns are understood to be 'fight stoppers' anyone who keeps coming at you when you are shooting at them probably has bad intent.

[Chrontius]

A cellphone or your keychain, clutched in your cold, dead, bloodied hands is the only thing that would be PC enough for the antis.

You know, I think you can get keyrings for Kel-Tecs and NAA Minis... Does that count? :evil:

[chopinbloc]

barrett m-82a1 would probably be the LEAST pc gun for defense.... wonder if i could convince them to make a carbine version? :evil:

most pc? i'm guessing .40 caliber muzzle loading flint lock with a very long barrel. less effective/powerful = more pc.

my defense? g23 on me and mini 14 in the truck. mossberg at home. i second above posts. to heck with pc, i intend to WIN.

[artherd]

If you are worried about PC or Courts use what your local Police use. If you need to use it the Courts will be hard pressed to prove excessive gun for the job.

See, around here, the cops use ARs... Sometimes M-16s too.

Either one is a felony for a non-leo to own.

Want a PC gun? roll over and die.

I'll be using my Barrett M82.

[Texpatriate]

I have no plans to become PC in my choice of HD weapon, however, for the sake of discussion I'll second those who have suggested a 12 ga pump action. I've heard it suggested that you could use a shorter barreled turkey gun and it's almost as tactically affective as a "tacticool" 18.5" barrel without having the stigma of a being a "sawed-off shotgun". "Honestly officer, I was scared for my life, so I just grabbed my turkey gun and blew him away." A magnum turkey load could do some serious damage to any evildoers I would think.

[GigaBuist]

Amusing, becuase I was just thinking about this the other day...

I've got a fair number of EBRs in my safe, semi-auto pistols, pump shotguns, yadda yadda yadda. Stuff that makes DiFi wet her pants.

What's under my bed at night? A SxS coach gun in 12 gauge. No idea why, really -- it's just simple, and it works, and I know I can use it well. I have nightmares about double-feeds in an AR and such, so the SxS is 'comfortable' to me. The whole PC issue is a non-issue with me.

It'd make one heck of an interesting case for a prosecutor, now that I think about it, to make me look "trigger happy" when I've got so many non-PC guns about but use a SxS for HD.

[Ironbarr]

I don't have to be concerned about PC, since there is a politically correct rifle available to me. It's Model "Politically Correct Rifle-5" (PCR-5) by Olympic Arms.

Technically not a "rifle", it is an AR-15 carbine design (short/light) chambered in 5.56mm (.223 works). But, most of you know this design already.

I believe that, if there is a reason to deploy it, it'll be under some level of urban necessity - anywhere from one BG at ten feet to chaos on the streets where long ranges will not be the norm. Of course there's a scope and a red dot for a bit of versatility.

Really PC, huh?

/IB

[imas]

A telephone is the only politically correct home defense weapon.

[GEM]

The issue is not whether or not the prosecutor directly brings it up. It whether the sheer appearance of the gun will influence the jury without anything being said.

Thus, the repeated statements that you haven't found case law or a case where the prosecutor said X,Y,Z may not be the only factor.

As I have repeatedly said jury research had found that in some cases (dependent on various factors) gun appearance issue effect juries WITHOUT the prosecutor saying anything. Thus, that doesn't get into the legal search issues if it happens in a case.

As far as prosecutors using gun appearance, when the DC sniper trial started the DA assembled the AR in front of the jury - wonder why he was doing that?

Also, if you research long arm purchases by police departments, you find the military appearance of the AR is a concern for them and brought up by the city government.

BTW, I have an AR but if I went to trial, I would want a law cognizant of this research.

Hope, the point - sigh - is clearer this time. It won't be though. :banghead:

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Scr** PC. I'm so tired of being PC and seeing it invade common sense thinking.


In a situation where I defend my life, the life of my loved ones, or my home, I'm going to use whatever I have closest at hand that will end the situation and the attack upon my person as quickly as possible. If it's a sock full of quarters, so be it. If it's an 18 inch barrelled 12 guage with a pistol grip, all the better. by gum, I don't care anymore. It's gonna get stopped, whatever the threat is.


Regards,
Rabbit.