[Nathaniel Firethorn]

After being ambushed a couple of times, I wonder how worthwhile this is.

- pdmoderator

[Blackhawk]

Yes.

We just need to rachet up the pucker factor to what it should have already been. :what:

[CZ-75]

They get one chance to surrender.

Should they start shooting, it's "lights out." Keep pumping bullets into them until they stop twitching.

An effective "balance of terror." We treat you well if you act honorably under terms of surrender, even if it is after savage fighting. You dishonor your surrender as a ruse, and we give no quarter.

[Dannyboy]

These guys pulling these tricks are really only going to succeed in getting Iraqis killed. They're going to cause soldiers and marines to be jumpy and nervous and that's when bad things happen. The next time a group of Iraqis tries to surrender it could be ugly. I just hope it doesn't get recorded.

[JoeSF]

I agree with the one surrender chance policy.

[jmbg29]

What CZ-75 said, with one small modification. If the surrender ruse is used anymore, then all enemy forces in that general area (1 mile or so radius) should be incinerated immediately.

MOAB

That is what it's for. Use it.:fire: :fire: :fire:

[CampX]

So is this a question of fighting fair and honorably, or one of the ugly facts of war? I can hear someone out there reporting this story like this,"Those sneaky little Iraqis, they never read the rules of war that we sent them. How dare they attack us in this way when we are invading their homeland!"
Now the issue of human shields. The Iraqis aren't stupid, they KNOW they wouldn't stand a hope in Hell if they were to engage in fullscale battles out in the open. So fighting in towns and cities are their only options. Unfortunately, thats where civilians live. And if some Iraqi soldiers are dressed in civy clothing, it would be prudent for the coalition troops to be VERY vigilant in how they engage the enemy in close.
This ain't gonna be a cake walk, boys and girls. It's gonna be an engagement that hasn't been seen in the US for a long time. The media seems to think that the Stars and Stripes should have already been raised over Baghdad, but I don't think that we have even begun to see the heavy fighting yet.
And stay out of helicopters...........

[jmbg29]

So is this a question of fighting fair and honorably, or one of the ugly facts of war? I can hear someone out there reporting this story like this,"Those sneaky little Iraqis, they never read the rules of war that we sent them. How dare they attack us in this way when we are invading their homeland!"It's a question of the Iraqis doing what is in their own interests.

If they wish to fight, then they should fight. If the wish to surrender, then surrender.

Using surrender as a ruse only serves to get far more of them killed.

But I guess people from Turd World countries can't figure that out on their own.

Oh well. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[hondo68]

Lay seige to Bagdad, cut off food, water, etc. until they surender. NO humanitarian aid for the city until they surender, and the area is secured.

[CampX]

Using surrender as a ruse IS pretty low, but remember that these people are known to gas there own population. So don't be complacent, they put less value on human life than us.

"Lay seige to Bagdad, cut off food, water, etc. until they surender. NO humanitarian aid for the city until they surender, and the area is secured." Are you on glue???? Yup, the anti-war people would LOVE this. Kill the civilians to get Saddam. Kinda goes against the whole B.S. line of being 'liberators' of Iraq, don't it? You are going to have to start believing in the fact that American boys and girls are gonna start coming home in body bags.....It's what you pro-War people asked for.

[Blackhawk]

It's one of the ugly facts of war, CampX.

A surrender is not complete until the POW is incapable of causing any harm. Sometimes Americans tend to forget that. We don't need to change our plan -- we just need to stay in condition red.

[CampX]

Well BlackHawk, it seems that for once we agree. Until I saw the enemy drop his weapon and lay face down in the dirt, my trigger finger would be about 3 ounces from BANG! you're dead. Stay focused boys. Bombs in baby carriages, remember....

[DeltaElite]

Not unless they are dead.:fire:

[nemesis]

De guello.

[Sir Galahad]

This is nothing new. I seem to recall reading some Waffen SS units pulled this stunt towards the end of the war. On the Eastern Front, both Germans and Soviets pulled this stunt on each other. And, in World War Two, one country surrendered and actually meant it.:evil:

[critter]

I hope we are not falling into an old trap that we fell into in VN and Korea-that is playing by a rigid set of rules and letting the other side do as they pleased. Remember?- fighting up to a 'line' but not attacking the massed enemy cause they were in a 'safe' place just across an imaginary line.

I remember a quote from somewhere: "Do thine enemy no small harm". We need to remember that. Do whatever is needed to WIN and to save lives of US and coalition forces! Full speed ahead!

Best wishes to all the soldiers-be safe-get this over with soon and come home!

[Blackhawk]

CampX wrote:Well BlackHawk, it seems that for once we agree.Nuts! :uhoh:

Where did I screw up...? :confused:

[CampX]

Homer Simpson, "DOHHHHH"!
Don't worry, I'll still say other **** to piss you off.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

Using surrender as a ruse IS pretty low, but remember that these people are known to gas there own population. Slight but important correction: Some of these people have been known to gas other ethnic groups.

SH unfortunately has deliberately mixed the rotten apples with the good ones. God help us trying to get them apart.

- pdmoderator

[SodaPop]

The reason we let them surrender is because we actually take them. More Germans surrended to the US because the USSR didn't take them.

Let them surrender or they'll fight.

[Mike Irwin]

What's the option?

Massacre them all?

Leave them milling around in your rear?

You've got to take them.

Many of these people are going to be DANGEROUS as hell. Some of them are Hussein fanatics, and know that they're not going to have any role in the new Iraq, so they have absolutely nothing to lose.

[MeekandMild]

I knew a man who'd been one of the truckers who supported Patton's drive across the Rhine into Germany. He said the troops sent the word ahead that if any GI was killed in any village they would kill ten villagers plus the soldiers who killed him and if there was any sniper fire they would burn the village. They made the German officers take control of their troops, disarm them and turn them out in lines under threat of mass execution.

This has never really been emphasized by the history books but it was quite effective in keeping order where nice language would have not worked. ;) That is unless it was all just the mumbling of a senile old man.

[Hard Charger]

Yes, just be careful and stay alert when they surrender.

We are America, not Sodom Insane.

[Waitone]

Based on our experience in Gulf I we just assumed Iraqi's surrendering were the same types. Bad assumption.

I assume orders are going out as we speak to make procedures change.

Iraq won't attack the armored point but it apparently figures it can strike supply lines. Again changes are no doubt in progress.

[D_Burchfield]

We just need to rachet up the pucker factor to what it should have already been.

Blackhawk is correct. Another question. Just what the he## are "captured" enemy troops doing with weapons. During my "time served" the drill always started with disarming the surrendering combatant/soldier. When in doubt, the batallion motto took precedence..."Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out".

If they are carrying weapons they are not surrendering.

[JPM70535]

I keep hearing how we must not kill any inocent non combatents while engaging the Iraqi army. Get real. The Iraqi commanders and high up politicos are not going to be in the combat zones with their troops. They are going to be behind a wall of "INNOCENT CIVILIANS", knowing our aversion to causing casualties among them. The same thought process dictates that is where the vaunted WMDs will be found.

The only way to eradicate the WMDs and capture or kill the Commanders is to treat any aggression on the part of any soldier or civilian with overwhelming firepower, ( Remember PUFF the magic dragon of Vietman fame) so that the area that generated the aggression is no longer there. The death of the so called non combatents is a regretable but unavoidable fact of war.

I would eradicate 10000 Iraqis to avoid the death of 1 American, and if that makes me less than compassionate towards my fellow man, so be it