9mm in IPSC production class


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zookrider
August 4, 2005, 06:40 PM
It would seem to me that, despite its arguable shortcomings as a SD/CCW round, the 9mm is the best caliber for a new IPSC shooter (such as myself) in the production class for reasons such as affordability, shootablity, etc.

Thoughts on the matter?

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Krag
August 4, 2005, 06:48 PM
zook - I beg to differ. The 9mm is one of the premier military/police/defensive cartridges in the world. There must be a reason for its popularity - and I could name many. :cool:

As for USPSA Production division - 9mm pistols dominate this Division. Most knowledgeable Production shooters use a 147 gr. bullet that moves just fast enough to make a 125 P.F. In my Para 18.9 LDA, Beretta Elite and Glock 34 such loads almost feel like I'm shooting a .22 pistol. :what:

Hoser
August 4, 2005, 09:01 PM
I shoot a 9x19 in USPSA matches.

Its open for debate if a 40 loaded down to the same power factor is softer and easier to shoot than a 9x19.

Its also up for debate if the 147 is better than the 124 or 115. I like the snappier feel of the 124s, but I just picked up a case of 147 CMJs to play with.

And, if you are shooting IPSC (international) matches, the 9x19 is king as IPSC has no 10 round limit.

Ankeny
August 4, 2005, 09:29 PM
I shot a lot of 147 grainers. Like many shooters, I have gone back to the 124-125 grain bullets to pick up some slide velocity.

eerw
August 5, 2005, 01:36 PM
I like the 124-125 grain bullets as it makes the gun a quicker feeling...at 128PF..nothing is too much...

have heard people say .40 loaded down is great..but 9x19 is too easy to buy and/or reload..that I can't see switching for a minor advantage ( if it really is one )

in USPSA the playing field is pretty level with 10rnd limit..there are lot of other factors on the gun to consider..in IPSC production..since there is no limit and gun that can hold 18-20 rounds may have the advantage..

Krag
August 5, 2005, 05:35 PM
I have recently been playing with some Cor-Bon 147 gr. Super Match 9mm ammo. This stuff is unbelievable! Out of my Para 18.9 LDA, when fired from a rest it puts ten rounds into one ragged hole at 15 yards and recoils so light it feels like my Ruger .22/45 pistol. :what:

I'm going to chrono some next week and hope that it makes 125 PF because if it does, I know what I'm going to shoot in important matches! :D

Navy87Guy
August 5, 2005, 08:16 PM
I just picked up a case of 147 gr competition ammo from Lancer Ammo (www.lancerammo.com). It's loaded to meet minor power factor floor. Up until now, I've been shooting WWB 115 gr Valu Paks. What a difference with the Lancer ammo!

The recoil is significantly less with the Lancer. I found it to be very smooth and accurate to shoot. A case ran about $3 per box more than the ValuPaks -- but definitely worth it!

Jim

Werewolf
August 8, 2005, 12:23 PM
The only downside to 9mm in IPSC is that sometimes it takes two hits to knock down a steel pepper popper target (if hit low). A 180 gr .40 or 230 gr .45 never has this problem in my experience.

OTOH if the club one shoots at rarely or never uses steel than the above isn't really an issue.

Krag
August 8, 2005, 06:58 PM
Werewolf - according to USPSA rules Poppers have to be calibrated to fall to a standard velocity 115 gr. 9mm load. If they don't demand a test. I have never had a properly calibrated Popper fail to fall to a 9mm hit in the upper 75% of the "body."

Werewolf
August 8, 2005, 07:44 PM
Werewolf - according to USPSA rules Poppers have to be calibrated to fall to a standard velocity 115 gr. 9mm load. Heck - the wind here would be enough to knock over a pepper with the adjusting screw set that light. :D

Seriously though rules is rules - real life is real life - I don't remember ever doing such a thing or even being told to do such a thing and I help set stages in 3 out of 4 competitions at the club I compete at - but then we're a pretty laid back group and the only folks that shoot 9mm are generally the new guys anyway.

Still - set to go down with a 115 gr 9mm... :uhoh: that's pretty light.

JeepDriver
August 8, 2005, 08:03 PM
I've been shooting my G34 in production for 2 years now. I love it. I was shooting the WWB 115 gr load, but it didn't run the slide as fast as I like so I've been shooting the M882 from www.ammoman.com and the gun runs!

I've shot it at steel matches as well and I've not had a piece of steel that didn't go down when hit.

I have a 3 gun match in September that I have to shoot major at, I wish I could find a safe 9mm major load for a stock Glock!

Werewolf
August 8, 2005, 09:57 PM
Is it even possible to make major with 9mm and stay within SAAMI specs (even considering +P)?

Even with a 147 gr bullet it'd have to be doing 1122 FPS to make major and that'd be really, really hot for a 9mm.

HSMITH
August 8, 2005, 11:06 PM
The Ranger 124+P+ is supposed to make major in most guns, and I would try it in a Glock. Just drop the mag and keep it well away from your body when initially testing so if a case does seperate it won't do much if any damage to the gun. I have seen guys shooting it in a G17 and the cases weren't bulged any more than some of the value box stuff. The Glock 9mm barrel isn't fully supported but it isn't far from it either.

If your 3 gun match will allow 9mm Major in other than open class it might be worth a try, otherwise dust off a 40 or a 45 and have fun.

9mm in a fully supported barrel will make major without too much fiddling around. Look at some of the IPSC load pages and the data is there.

Island Beretta
August 9, 2005, 05:40 PM
good post.. 9mm (9x19mm) is making a track into Open shooting as well. The biggest challenge has been to get the pressure levels to were it effectively works the comp.. Rob L shoots a 9mm in Open...Eric G experimented with it but went back to a hybrid as he had reliability problems..

Also had a friend win C class in the Limited Division at the 05 Florida State Championship shooting a 9mm Beretta Combat. Remember if you are hitting your A zones then the caliber is a moot point..and according to Brian Enos it takes no more time to hit a A than to hit a D, it is just where the gun is pointed as it fires...

mattjoe
August 9, 2005, 08:28 PM
9mm can only be scored major in Open Division, it doesn't matter if you can push it over 165pf in any other gun in any other division, 9mm is always minor except in Open by rule. Diameter of the bullet must be over .40 for major in all other divisions, with the exception of 357 magnum in Revolver

And Krag is absolutely correct, poppers are to be set to be knocked down by factory 9mm loads.
If steel doesn't go down, you can call for a calibration after the stage is complete, if it goes down when shot with a 9mm by the RO or Match Director, then you get a miss. If it stays standing, it's a reshoot.

Old Guy
August 11, 2005, 10:38 PM
Rules are rules, chalk a line across the popper, 115 factory, thatís how you set a popper, it was never a test of how much extra oomph you put out.

Atlanta Arms load a 147 JHP for IPSC/USPSA and IDPA I shot a 4" group of 4 rounds at 45 yards in a USPSA State match, great accuracy, Glock 17 with Trijicon night sights. I know! I could not believe it either!

Recoil is fine.

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