Will IDPA outlaw the S&W 610 revolver?


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Krag
August 4, 2005, 09:42 PM
A friend of mine who shoots IDPA told me today that Bill Wilson (the "dictator") is thinking of outlawing the 610 revolver from competition as it provides "too many" advantages?

Good Lord, now I'm positive IDPA is getting too weird! :uhoh:

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The Drew
August 4, 2005, 09:45 PM
If that happens... It won't be effective for a while... That's just the way they do things...

model 649
August 4, 2005, 09:59 PM
Whoa, I sure hope not! I just did load development on a 610 and am in the middle of a case of ammo for a friend who shoots IDPA. That would bite the big one IMNSHO. Are the rules made up on a whim in that game? ("Dictator"?)
Josh

hillbilly
August 4, 2005, 11:18 PM
From what I read on the Internet, there's a strange pattern of Bill Wilson banning all sorts of things from IDPA competition, but the funny thing is that none of the guns or holsters or other products that Bill Wilson makes and sells wind up on the banned list.

hillbilly

GarrettJ
August 4, 2005, 11:37 PM
What advantages would a 610 give that a 625 would not?

Correia
August 4, 2005, 11:43 PM
Guys, conjecture is great and all, but we hashed this out about six months ago. Do a search. The 610 didn't get banned. The 625 didn't get banned. The biggest changes were in holster rules. And yes some Wilson guns are banned from IDPA (bull barrels).

My club went over this a bunch, decided to not quit our IDPA affiliation, but went to the minimum number of IDPA matches a year and now shoot more steel shoots, 3gun, Icore, or other things instead.

Krag
August 5, 2005, 07:46 AM
I.D.P.A. = I Don't Participate Anymore! :fire:

Correia
August 5, 2005, 09:01 AM
Krag, while you are not participating, I don't see why considering that the 610 is still legal. (625s load faster anyway with the bigger hole).

Krag
August 5, 2005, 03:08 PM
Correia - I quit IDPA a number of years ago when I realized that the rules were becoming increasingly assinine and ruining the sport. A lot of my friends still shoot it and that's where I got the info about the 610.

We have a couple of IDPA matches in this area that are basically running on their "own" rules as they say the rulebook is a joke. I don't know myself but there is an awful lot of grumbling from many of the IDPAers I know.

jdkelly
August 5, 2005, 04:29 PM
I don't trust IDPA, or it's partisans, to render the truth un-spun.


Respectfully,

jkelly

ted murphy
August 5, 2005, 06:45 PM
Your friend was sorta right.

IDPA released a new rulebook this year. It came about in 3 incarnations. The first two incarnations had a 42 ounce maximum weight for the ESR division which would have effectively banned the S&W 610. People freaked out and lobbied hard and the weight limit for the ESR division was raised to 50oz, which allowed the gun to be used again.

FWIW, if IDPA wanted to ban the 610 tomorrow, it would take 2 years to be in effect.

Unfortunately S&W did ban the 610, they discontinued it a short while ago.

Ted

ted murphy
August 5, 2005, 06:48 PM
What advantages would a 610 give that a 625 would not?
===========================

Some folks just love that gun. A few friends like the flatter trajectory of the 10mm/.40 for 100yd + shooting, others like the fact the bullets are a little cheaper, others like the heavier weight.

Ted

HankB
August 8, 2005, 02:09 PM
If that happens... It won't be effective for a while... if IDPA wanted to ban the 610 tomorrow, it would take 2 years to be in effect.
Are you sure about that? This was bounced around a while back in these forums.

IIRC when they made changes that caused such an uproar, I thought they weaseled around the 2-year implementation window by first, rewriting the "stability of rules" rule, and then they proceeded to make the changes they wanted effective immediately. IDPA released a new rulebook this year. It came about in 3 incarnations. The first two incarnations had a 42 ounce maximum weight for the ESR division which would have effectively banned the S&W 610. People freaked out and lobbied hard and the weight limit for the ESR division was raised to 50oz, which allowed the gun to be used again. So first they banned, then they unbanned, all in a short time.

Don't count on a 2-year implementation window if IDPA's powers-that-be want something eliminated today.

ted murphy
August 8, 2005, 05:35 PM
There is a 2 year clause on banning guns in the rulebook.

Back when they shortened barrels to 4", people had 2 years they could still use the 5" barrels until the rule came into effect.

The weights in the first 2 incarnations were not an attempt to "Ban" the 610, it was pretty much an overt admission that they had no idea what those guns weighted. Which is why in the final book it is fixed. The 625 fit within the then 42 ounce weight, no one (except the 610 fans) seemed to know how much heavier the Ten Mils were.

Even still, had the lower weight been implimented, they would have given people time (like they did in SSP- the weight limit is not in effect until next year) before it was made effective.

Old Guy
August 10, 2005, 01:24 PM
IDPA as a shooting sport is totally dependent on the stages in the match for fun, or not fun, the building of the stages, the props used, I love my local clubs.

Except.....we here in Florida are allowed the dreaded hi cap magazines, why not allow local clubs to use them in matches?
So you can not use them in NY-NJ-CA who cares! Who would want to live there?

All the local clubs, all, love the shoot whilst moving stages!! IMHO absolutely asinine! Again, is this supposed to depict gun play for real? You are going to move 5 yards with no shoot targets blocking your shoot targets, and fire, on the move? No you are not.

Running at a hostile target, sure, that is how you break an ambush when caught in the open.

Shooting at a target that wags back and forth on a swing devise! No realism.
Back to weight of revolver, 40 oz plus 4" on your hip all day? Hello!
Still a great sport, lots of fun. I am 70 in October, love my IDPA, still.

Wakal
August 12, 2005, 12:01 PM
Shoot on the move in "real life"? You will do what you have to do, at the time.

For games like IDPA and IPSC, shooting on the move is a solid test of actual ability. And if a guy doens't want to, a guy can always just stand there like a big old target-shaped lump and engage paper to his little heart's content.

And...


...it was pretty much an overt admission that they had no idea what those guns weighted...

Sure thing, and I have a bridge for sale. Bill hates moon clip guns, is on record as saying that he wishes that he never let them play in HIS game, and banned them directly (and immediately) earlier this year. The fact that he relented and changed HIS rules speaks volumes about the number of complaints (and subsequent loss of income to Bill) about the Bill Wilson Game and Bill's little unilaterally issued changes.

Something to think about...USPSA/IPSC is a non-profit group with a board of directors and a president ELECTED by the MEMBERS. IDPA is a for-profit group run by a dictator with unrestrained power.

I shoot both (and SASS), but do not confuse the state of affairs with either (or all three; my amusement with SASS rules and their "oh, you can't win anyway so quit whining" philosophy is another subject).



Alex

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