[Nathaniel Firethorn]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=1521&e=2&u=/afp/20030323/pl_afp/iraq_war_us_1
Al-Jazeera showed several dead bodies along with five prisoners, including two wounded, one of them a woman.It hit my wife and I at dinner tonight.

All I know about her is that she's a black woman, age thirty.

Whoever she is, she's in the hands of Saddam Hussein's thugs. It's hard for me to express my rage at what their kind might do to a woman prisoner.

Please pray for her.

- pdmoderator

[SodaPop]

I've been thinking about those troops all day. :fire:

[cuchulainn]

There's no "might" about it. :(

Prayers said.

(And not to critcize your sentiment, but we should pray for them all).

[DeltaElite]

Defintiely, she and the others are in the hands of animals. :(

[CampX]

Rage at what?!? Save your rage. This was an arguing point long ago about women in the Forces, about the 'what if they are captured' scenario. Pray for all of them, not just her. The Iraqis may (or may not) treat her badly. We don't know. Chances are they are pissed at the States for invading and bombing the crap outta them, not to mention they have always hated the States.

[Sir Galahad]

Hey, Camp X, how about lightening up a little? Man comes on here asking folks to pray for an American soldier and you're indignant. Is yours the response you'd like to hear if someone asked folks to pray for you? This semi-"they-asked-for-it" attitude? People said the same things about 9/11. And it was as sickening then as it is now.

[tyme]

Sir Galahad, that's not what CampX said.

She knew the risks. There was no draft for this war. And remember, men can be sexually abused too. CampX's point was simply that it's unreasonable to single out the woman as being worthy of prayer. If you can't deal with that, pray for her yourself, but please don't suggest that everyone else should selectively pray for women.

I really hope there aren't going to be prayer threads each time soldiers are captured. This is l&p, not a "pray for our troops" forum. Every non-sociopathic human on Earth feels deeply sympathetic for any troops killed, captured, or wounded in combat. On either side.

[Al Thompson]

Well Camp, they gang raped both the ladies captured in the last go around.

[CampX]

Echoing what Tyme said....
It isn't a nice thought of what may happen to her. I wish the best for her, her comrades, and their families. I do have sincere feelings about this.
But yes, she signed up, this is WIDE OPEN WARFARE, and there will be more atrocities to follow.
Along with the "praying every time someone gets captured", we saw the flags at half mast after the first casualty of this war, 2 days ago. Does this mean that the flags around America are gonna be at half mast for another 6 months???? Think about it, this is war. Did the flags in the US fly at half mast for 4 years during WW2, or 6 years during Viet Nam?

[Sir Galahad]

Well, here's a thought for you:

Maybe, this time around folks want to show appreciation for what these soldiers are doing. Unlike Vietnam where men came home to be spat upon and called "babykillers".

Tyme, because people signed up for the military does not mean it makes it "ok" to be raped. By your logic, the woman who wears a micro-mini skirt "asked for it" if she gets raped because she dressed like a prostitute. And people can ask for folks to pray for whomever they feel needs the prayers. If you don't feel like praying, fine, but exercise a little filial piety for those that are not bound so tightly by some smug assertions that they cannot take 2 minutes out of their oh-so-busy day to pray for someone. Hopefully, you, Tyme or CampX will never be in need of prayers, nor be reminded of your views of prayers here if so.

[Al Thompson]

Did the flags in the US fly at half mast for 4 years during WW2, or 6 years during Viet Nam?


No reason why they shouldn't have.

[hansolo]

I know the rules here state, "No personal attacks, flaming, etc."
I agree to that. I also feel CampX's post regarding the female U.S. Soldier in the unenviable POW situation is callous and mean spirited, not to mention, un-patriotic. Yes, enlisted men and women realize the chance of becoming a casualty in any armed conflict. I wonder how CampX would feel if a female relative or friend was in the horrifying situation facing this soldier? I have never met this woman, but I am praying for her and all the Allied troops...and I'm an Agnostic.

[bad_dad_brad]

I feel and pray for all POWs. But the women, well, I can't help but feel softer for them. I can't help but feel more outrage at their violation. I know they took the same risks. I know they knew the same (but did they really!) But I can't stand it!

Women should not be in combat unless the times are desperate. Women are good fighters, tenacious, fierce, but they are Mothers, and if they do not have to fight, I do not think they should.

I just don't think it is right, women being in harms way. I could never soldier with women, unless I were a desperate partisan. But even then, I would try to protect her. Just my nature. And many men as well.

Women, unless times are desperate, should NOT be in combat. Call me old fashioned, but it is the way I feel.

[tyme]

There's no reason to get nasty.

We all agree that any women who are captured are in a terrible situation. We just disagree about the form our sympathy should take relative to our sympathy for other captured soldiers. Everyone has unique circumstances that make the possibility of being captured in a war more or less difficult. Women simply have an added consideration.

baddadbrad, they volunteered... they accepted the honor and risk of being in the military. I don't think society has the right any longer to exclude women from institutions based on what seems in your case to be reverse gender bias. :)

One of the reasons we're fighting this war is that Saddam's regime (somewhat like most other Arab regimes) treats women as lesser humans. Aren't we hypocritical if we don't offer women the same opportunity to rid the World of scum like Saddam that we offer to men? Lots of people have issues with women being in the military. They really ought to get over them. One direction western society is not going to go is back to a gender-differentiated social structure.

[Tamara]

Think carefully about what I am about to type:

We are at war.

In war, soldiers die, and soldiers are captured. This is the cost of doing business in this, the harshest of all professions.

During WWII, in the first raid on Schweinfurt, 3760 airmen set out in B-17s. 600 were shot down over Germany, plus many more who came back wounded or dead in crippled bombers.

Do you know what we did?

We didn't go into a national funk.

We didn't crawl into our collective navel.

Convinced that our cause was righteous, we crewed up more bombers the next day and went again.


The Iraqi military and the Baathist militia want to show us how mean they are?

Fine.

Let's play...

...but I don't think they're going to like the final score of this game. :fire:

[Blackhawk]

Her, and all the other hers, plus all the hims, and yes all the worthwhile Iraqis our hers and hims are over there to liberate.

This is a noble effort by a generous nation to help people who can't help themselves.

I'm proud of our country and our military, and my best wishes go out for them all.

[sm]

Tamara, well stated.

BH, and others,like yourselves prayers before "IS "started, haven't stopped, won't.

War is Hell
Reality is Hell
Acceptance is difficult.

sometimes all one can do is pray, and 'white knuckle that < expletive> till you get in a better position.

[Powderman]

I do not understand what the dispute is over.

I don't care if they are men OR women, they are soldiers.

Being a POW is not a good place to be for ANY member of our Armed Forces.

I pray for them--ALL of them. My prayers are especially being said for the families who have already received the knocks on their doors.

I pray that each and every one of the soldiers held in captivity will return home safe and in their right minds, no matter what those animals do.

And, I wish--fervently--that I could be alongside the troops that are there right now.

And here's hoping that they keep this in mind:

"I am an American fighting man, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my Country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America."

-Article VI, Code of Conduct

[Gary H]

My thoughts have been with the soldiers in general. Many of our soldiers died today. I'm sure that others have also perished. I don't see the distinction between being raped vs. just plain ole tortured. I hope that our forces take these setbacks and press forward. It is the only way to get those folks back. I don't think that Bush will mess with enemy forces that act aside from established convention. It makes me sick to see some of these anti-war folks take to the streets. This sends the wrong message. I don't deny them the right, but I won't forget them.

[Leatherneck]

Being a POW is not a good place to be for ANY member of our Armed Forces.
Especially as a woman.

Especially in Iraq.

My feeling is that two decades of Saddam have completely buried any compassion or humanity present in members of his clan. I just hope that from today forward, our soldiers are A LOT more careful in their personal protective measures, and a lot more suspicious of any Iraquis they encounter. Like maybe just short of "Shoot first and ask questions later."

TC
TFL Survivor

[gburner]

As usual, Tamara has it spot on. We are engaged in the most brutal of pursuits,
all the while attempting to prove to the world that we are not rampaging beasts
bent on killing everyone in our path. We should maintain this posture re: civilians.

However, regarding a military that would engage in this type of despicable behavior as a reflection of their leadership's policy....

Time to spit on our hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
No more respect for the 'white flag' of surrender, no more repatriation of prisoners, no more PR campaign as if we're trying to win a popularity contest
instead of a war. Wade into them...:fire:

[VaughnT]

When did it come to light that the ladies captured in Desert Storm were gang-raped? I was told they were treated with respect, or what passes for respect, but never anything about rape.

And if this is the case, why hasn't it been on the airwaves now that more women have been captured?

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

We didn't go into a national funk.

We didn't crawl into our collective navel.

Convinced that our cause was righteous, we crewed up more bombers the next day and went again.All of the above is true.

None of the above means that heartlessness toward a soldier in danger is a thing worth fighting for.

- pdmoderator

[cheygriz]

The debate over women in the miitary is best saved for peace time.

I am praying for the young woman that is in the hands of vicious anuimals. And I hope every other American is too.

Save the debate for AFTER the war!

[Al Thompson]

Vaughn, is that right? The media lied? :what: :neener:

The lady truck driver and her TC who were captured early on was raped, per reports I read. Those two also resisted in those reports. IIRC - and I'll recheck today or tomorrow - the lady Doc who was captured when their Dustoff was shot down mentioned it in her book.