[albanian]

I keep getting the urge to do something to my shotguns even though I find that the regular stocks and forends work better for me than anything else. I also keep wanting to hang a bunch of junk on it but I know it will only get in the way. Is there anything that will make the 870hd a better serious gun or is it all just junk?

Ghost ring sights---slower for me than the groove and bead.

Extended mag---I hear it may make it jam and it throws off the balance.

Pistol grip---been there and done that and other than the Speedfeed pistol grip, they are a waste of time.

Pistol grip stocks---Now this may work for some people with enough practice but the straight stock is too natural for me.

Side saddles---Don't like them but I do have a buttstock sleave that holds extra shells that I like, I paid $4 for it. :)

Lasers---I can't even imagine a situation where I would need a laser on a shotgun. A shotgun is the most natural pointer out there, why add a laser?

Flash light---This may be a viable add-on but I have not tried them yet. The ones that mount in the forarm look good.

Scope or red dot---Are you kidding? If I have time to use a scope, I would use a different gun. Shotguns are for pure speed at close range. With practice, a good pump can be the fastest long gun at close range that you can buy. Adding scopes and other sighting equipment only slows down the shotgun IMHO.

Slings---All shotguns should have slings unless they are not going to be carried. A slung shotgun carried African style can be very fast. If it is just for home defense, no sling is needed or wanted as it may get caught in the slide.

Folding stocks---Well, I just bought a Knoxx CopStock because I just had to see what the deal was. I will let you know when I decide it too is a waste of time and money. :o

[Black Majik]

Albanian.

Very true. I find a lot of the doo-dads rediculous to add on. I look at many "post your shotgun thread" and I think MOST of them are ugly. Sorry folks. I especially find pistol gripped shotguns the most, umm.... ugly mod for a shotgun. Mainly those pistol grips where it looks like a slapped on piece of handle to the stock. Yuck!

There is only one modification I have on my 870 that serves home defense duty. The factory mag. extension.

To me, I actually feel the gun is more balanced with the ext. mag., and I do trust it fully. The mag clamp is important. Very important. But it has proven to be a reliable, and useful tool. More rounds never hurt either.


I get good laughs at rails, bayonets, scopes (except for a shotgun setup for deer hunting), red dots, ar-15 stocks, pistol gripped stocks, camo paint jobs etc... Maybe I've just read too many of Dave's posts.... :D

[Rupestris]

For HD I currently have a prettymuch box stock 870. Only change is a 18.5" Rem bbl that replaces the 26" bbl that came with it.
I installed sling mounts that get used for deer season only.
Being left handed but shooting right handed firearms a side saddle would do me little good as I like the fact that my trigger hand never has to leave the grip.
It currently wears a 13 LOP stock but I have a 12" if I so choose (the 12" has the potential to give me a bloody nose if I don't relocate my thumb so it stays in the parts bin).

I don't know about most but the neighborhood I live in is a tightly packed, postage stamp lots, suburban comunity. there is always a fair amount of ambiant light(street light out front). flashlights and lasers are best left to the rural areas where dark is dark or those working in areas I hope I never see.

I think you have a fine HD tool as it is. Keep it stoked with the most reliable round and sleep well knowing that you have put enough faith into your HD weapon that you can live with yourself no mater what comes down.

The only thing you can add to to the 870HD to make it better is rounds down range. Practice mounting, know your surroundings, know what works, and hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

Keep us posted on the Knoxx CopStock.

Thanks,
Rupe

[No_Brakes23]

I like pistol grip/stock longarms, the AR is very natural for me. So a Mall Ninja 870 is somewhere in my future. But so far just putting a side saddle on and changing from the 28" barrel to a Remchoke SPS 20" barrel made a world of difference in the ability to get around my small apartment with it. It moves so much better now without that long barrel on there.

My apt is blessed with many electirical outlets so I bought a bunch of $5 aimable LED nightlights to light up certain areas of my house. The rifle sights on the barrel aren't perfect in low light, but the are waaaaaay easier to see compared to that little bead. So no JBT forearm for me right now. $250-$300 for a Surefire will buy a lot of ammo to practice with. (And I need it, only been the range once with it for a grand total of 79 rounds.)

The only mod I intend to make after this is a mag extention because 4+1 is just not something I am comfy with. 7+1 is on par with the pistols.

BTW, how do you 870 folks safe the shotgun? I don't like running my index finger across the trigger to safe the weapon, but rolling my thumb around requires taking the weapon out of my shoulder, and I prefer to safe a weapon before it leaves my shoulder. (Although at port arms the thumb easily reaches the safety. Who does rifle manual with a shotgun, though?)

[c_yeager]

BTW, how do you 870 folks safe the shotgun?

I dont know if this fits with what the gurus here have to say (i would be interested in knowing the prefered method myself) but, i have always just racked the slide to the rear, this clears the chamber and prevents the weapon from firing, while allowing it to be returned to service quickly as one's hand is already on the forearm. Obviously this wouldnt work if you wanted to safe your weapon continiuosly (youd run out of ammo), but for storage i usually keep the slide rearward with a shell on the lifter (? or whatever its called), it can be brought to ready with a simple tug of the forearm.

[Nnobby45]

I have two combat 870's. Both have straight Speed Feed buttstocks. My HD gun has a SureFire fore-end and 6 rd. tube. It currently has a sling, but that may come off. The light can be critical for ID'ing the potential threat.

My other has Speed Feed fore. It has a sling and 6 rd. side-saddle, and also 6 rd. magazine (two rd ext.) This is my grab and go gun. It goes with me when I'm out and about when I feel the need for it. Both have Ghost Ring tritium sights and can be used accurately with slugs to 100 yds or so--admittedly not necessary for HD. Fast target acquisition with GR sights can be learned.

The proper way to keep the shotgun is cruiser ready--Mag downloaded by one to keep from stressing the spring, unless you're expecting trouble. The chamber is empty (since the 870 is not drop safe) on a pulled trigger, with safety off. From the low ready, the shotgun can be racked as the gun comes up with very little (or no) lost time. When use of the shotgun looks reasonably imminent, the shotgun is racked and safety goes to ON position.

There are those who, for added safety reasons, keep the shotgun cocked, chamber empty with safety on. They practice operating the slide release lever and removing the safety and racking, so they can use the shotgun quickly in an emergency. Most would consider this childproof where SMALL children are concerned.

[Silent-Snail]

What is the African style of carry?
Pics if possable please?

[Nnobby45]

Muzzle down, I believe.

[Kingcreek]

My 870 is the only shotgun that never rests inside the safe. Always here, always loaded and ready, in the same configuration for over 10 years. I live in a semi-remote rural area with no near neighbors and an abundance of various farm pests. I also hunt deer with the 870 1 or 2 weekends per year. I pass up all the latest whizbang gizmos because I like it just the way it is and always was.
total mods list:
*Big-head safety-some don't like em but I like it and sometimes I wear gloves.
*+2 mag extension with clamp- never any problems with it.
*Sling studs with a QD sling that goes on when I am outdoors and comes off when I come in. frees up hands for flashlights, gates, barn doors, climbing on tractor, etc.
A big part of the utility for me is knowing it is always in the same place and same condition. sure, I check it when convenient but in a pinch its a grab-and-go, rapid response tool.
My wife knows to NEVER, NEVER unload, it, move it, dust it, or touch it in any way.
She has her own shotgun if she needs one.

[El Tejon]

What to add? Training, training and then more training. :)

In the end, it's not about the gun.

[Nematocyst]

Late last night, before reading this intereseting thread, I posted a long one to another thread that I started originally seeking clarification about order numbers (Question re: 870P order #'s).

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=150273

After my initial question about order numbers, and beginning with post #4, i turned that thread in the direction of a discussion of: 1) why I'm buying an 870P, and 2) why I'm buying a specific order number of the 870P; 3) seeking advice about #2. {After the fact, I tried to change the name of the thread, but I guess thread names can't be changed, probably for good reason :)

After posting it, I read this thread and found that I have similar views to those of Albanian and others: keep it simple.

But rather than repost those views here, I'll just call your attention to the other thread mentioned above.
_________

I do have one question & one comment about other posts in this thread.

Question for Black Majic (or others who know) re: "The mag clamp is important. Very important." Please, what is a "mag clamp"? (I assuming that which clamps the extension tube to the barrel for stability, but what else should I know about why it is so important?)

And a comment to Rupestris about the statement, "flashlights and lasers are best left to the rural areas where dark is dark or those working in areas I hope I never see." I've read similar statements in numerous threads about lights.

I don't disagree with you at all, Rupestris. I'm not sure I'm going to add a light to my 870; verdict is still out on that one. (I'm actually hoping to try before I buy.) I tend to have a lot of light in my studio from night lights, and some ambient light from streetlights. I live alone, so unlikely that I'll mistake a friendly for a goblin.

Still, in addition to my issue with weight about the light, there's another factor that is beginning to weigh on my decision. I've been doing a LOT of reading about the whole "peak oil" issue, the argument that we are rapidly reaching a critical threshold (AKA "tipping point") where oil demand exceeds supply permanently.

There are those oil analysts with good minds (one of whom I know personally, even if not closely) who argue that we will reach a point in not too many years (as in this decade) that the socioeconomic system just collapses as a result of skyrocketing oil prices. In their view, one of the consequences will be chaotic behavior on electrical grid systems, AKA blackouts.

Now, I haven't fully bought their arguments yet, and I'm NOT trying to turn this thread into a discussion of the validity of that argument. Even though I teach systems theory as a profession, and fully understand the idea of system collapse at critical thresholds, I'm not sure if such an outcome for our society is a given.

My point is, in my neighborhood (let alone in the MUCH larger city to which I'm moving soon - which is one reason i'm buying an HD SG), if the lights go out for an extended period, I might change my mind about those tactical lights. :eek:

Just thinking out loud here; no truth implied.

NemA~

[Dave McCracken]

A couple things....

First and foremost, a box stock 870 is a weapon of awesome capabilities limited mainly by the operator's level of expertise.

On a new, short barreled 870 that I planned on using as a HD tool, I'd....

Install QD swivels. While an HD tool needs no sling, and one can snag things up at a very bad time, a sling is essential once outside the house. And HD weapons are CD weapons by default.

Get the stock fitting me.

Add a two shot extension and clamp that puppy down tight. Using a clamp means slug groups will almost always tighten up considerably. The extra weight forward also helps cut kick and keeps the muzzle climb down, helping repeat shot times and effectiveness.

Evaluate whether a light is a good idea in YOUR use environment. Usually it is.

And finally, BA/UU/R. While I see occasional target guns wear out, I've never seen a "Serious" shotgun worn to the point of uselessness. I see some that are owned by folks who swear they shoot them heavily, but there's few wear marks on the mag tube or action bars. Talk's cheap.

HTH....

[Gunsnrovers]

Out of the box, I find the synthetic Remington stocks too long so that's 1 thing I'd have to correct on the 870HD if nothing else.

I'm also in favor as lights. I'm partial to being able to ID a traget.

[Kamicosmos]

I also just purchased a copstock for my 20" 'mall ninja' moss 500. I hopefully will be shooting it this week. I am excited to see if the marketing about its recoil reduction capability is true.

And, I also have a streamlight M3 and mount to put on the gun, since it will be for HD. I also live alone, but figure for a pump shotgun, a weapon mounted light would be easier to use with the gun than my 3- D-cell mag light.

[Zach S]

I fired a lot of 3" 00 buck one day. After that day, I've found that 2.75" is really easy to deal with. The Copstock isnt for me.

[albanian]

"While I see occasional target guns wear out, I've never seen a "Serious" shotgun worn to the point of uselessness. I see some that are owned by folks who swear they shoot them heavily, but there's few wear marks on the mag tube or action bars. Talk's cheap."

I have actually wore out a shotgun once. Well, I didn't do all the wearing out but I did most of it. My dad sold me his lightly used but decade old and somewhat neglected Ithaca Model 37 Featherweight 12ga pump. It was a nice gun when I got it but 10 more hard years of use did wear it out. I used it for everything that I could. I shot trap and skeet with it, I hunted Pheasents, Dove, Rabbits, Deer and did pest control with it. Many Starlings met their end at the muzzle of the Ithaca. I practiced with it and used it until I couldn't keep up with all the problems it started to have. It probably wasn't totally worn out but the poly choke broke, the finish on the stock peeled away, the forarm shrunk and cracked, the blued finish was mostly bare. It was loose all over and I think it was just tired. Sort of like a car that has 200K miles on it. It can allways be fixed but there comes a point that you are not fixing just one problem but serveral just to get it running.

That was the only shotgun I have ever wore out and I doubt I will ever wear out my 870s. I could see the Moss 500 I have getting tired but not the 870s. 870s are built much better than either the Ithaca or the Mossberg in terms of being rugged. I loved that old Ithaca but it was not meant to take the beating I gave it. I got my money's worth out of it and sold it for about half what I paid for it so I did fine.

[Skunkabilly]

Heat seeking shotshells!

[Nematocyst]

Dave McC wrote:

"Add a two shot extension and clamp that puppy down tight. Using a clamp means slug groups will almost always tighten up considerably. The extra weight forward also helps cut kick and keeps the muzzle climb down, helping repeat shot times and effectiveness.

Evaluate whether a light is a good idea in YOUR use environment. Usually it is.

And finally, BA/UU/R."

Sounds reasonable. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm in the process of deciding exactly which 870P to buy. Leaning towards fairly stock to begin with the option of mods later. But just to cover my bases, here are some questions:


Let's assume I don't get an 870 with the Remington factory extension. (I'm leaning towards not getting it because even though it's mainly HD, I want the option of hunting with it, and extensions aren't legal for that, & I'm not sure that the factory ext. is removable{?}.) So, which extension would you recommend: Remington factory, Chaote, Lippman, other? Why?

I've been researching lights for SG. So far, I've found Surefire, Streamlight M3, and Tacstar. The latter two appeal because they appear to be easily detachable and a bit less expensive than the Surefire. But in some thread I read today (yes, I spent another 6 hours reading this forum today alone), Andrew W wrote "the light must be attached to the pump handle" but didn't really say why. I'd benefit from opinions about the best light & why it's best, including why some some believe it should be attached to the pump handle. {PS: I've just read four other threads about lights, including "Lights, camera, action" & "Weapons light advice". There's good info there, but they're all about 6 or 7 months old, so thought maybe someone has something new to add ... if not, just ignore this part... }

Finally, I've seen "BA/UU/R" in a bunch of posts, but no definitions yet. Would someone please define that for a newbie? ;)


Lastly, i'll add that one of the most important things i learned from my reading today is, never, never refer to one's shottie as "the ultimate". :D

Thanks,

NemA~

[Dave McCracken]

Albanian, congrats. Not many can say they've worn out an Ithaca.

NemA, one 870 here has the Remington extension. If I removed the clamp,spring, tube and collar, I could replace them with a stock spring and mag cap in maybe 5 minutes. A extended mag can be used for hunting IF there's a plug limiting it to two shots.

My experience with extensions is limited to this one and Choate. No probs with either..

Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat. The only sure way to get better at Shotgunning.

As for "Ultimate Shotguns", you have the right idea.....

[Nematocyst]

" Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat."

Ahh... will do ... ;)

Thanks, Dave.

NemA~