John Lott: AHSA "Fake" Organization for Gun Control by Democrats (URLRegisty Details)


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Connecticut Yankee
August 6, 2005, 08:17 AM
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/08/democrats-set-up-fake-organizations-to.html

8/3/2005
Democrats set up fake organizations to support gun control policies
Democratic Leadership Council use PR firm to push more Gun Laws

A Washington based PR Firm called DCS - Internet Advocacy Group thats used by a list of who's who in the Democrat party as well as the official PR firm for the Democrat leadership Council (DLC) that Sen. Hillary Clinton is the 'Chair' member as well as reportedly hand pick DCS to do ALL of the DLC PR work.

DCS Has register a bogus 'Pro-Gun' sportsmen group in the attempt to make it appear as hunters and trap shooters are in favor of Assault weapon 'bans as well as other anti gun related issues.

By creating this made up group called The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), who will inevitably be used in future Democrat led anti gun campaigns in the near future as so called 'expert' witnesses or a 'sane' voice of sportsmen. just so the anti gun democrats can grandstand for gun control non-issues via their willing accomplishes in the press. I'd imagine the closer we get to the '08' presidential election the more (AHSA) will be in the news.

Dick Morris , former Clinton PR man has stated numerously how the Democrats and Sen. Hillary have personally created made up Internet based advocacy groups repeatedly in the past to drum up false public support to site at their press conferences and Senate hearings, just so the Democrats will get their names put out in the news. According to Morris, During the Clinton administration there was a brainstorming group under then first lady Hillary's oversight inside the white house who did this kind of fabricated PR all the time.

So who did DCS make as the head of their bogus gun group, well none other than John Rosenthal, Co founder of Stop Handgun Violence (SHV). SHV has supported every anti-second amendment rights bill since the organizations creation.The personal pet anti gun group of the anti-gun Democrats.

The following background on all involved was uncovered.

[1.] The bogus Pro gun group: The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

Its domain name: http://www.huntersandshooters.com was registered on 25-Apr-05 by Registrant:DCS - Internet Advocacy Group, 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE,suite 200,Washington, District of Columbia

20003 As listed on DCS website and on their domain name registration.
DCS website is located here: http://dcscongressional.com/

[2.] The Democrat leadership council http://www.dlc.org/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 400, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

[3.] The PR Firm called DCS- Internet Advocacy Group http://dcscongressional.com/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003

[4.] So ALL three groups:The Democrat leadership council (DLC) , DCS - Internet Advocacy Group and The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) Are located in the same building and all three groups are pushing to take away your rights via their made up causes for the sake of getting their faces in the news.

According to Bernstein Management Corp. the Property Managements website: http://www.bernsteinmgmt.com/
Location: 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, SE Washington, DC,
Contact Number: (202) 363-6301 Austin Herndon

Please click through on the main link to get the original source for this.
posted by John Lott at 3:00 PM

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Brett Bellmore
August 6, 2005, 08:40 AM
I've done some searches on "2nd amendment" and "Second amendment" at yahoo this morning. Looks like the AHSA has bought a high ranking in their sponsored results, they come up on every search that mentions that term. So does www.keepandbeararms.com But, suprisingly enough, the NRA doesn't seem to have shelled out for that form of advertising.

A foolish economy, if you ask me.

El Tejon
August 6, 2005, 10:00 AM
The Left use deceit and trickery to advance the Holy Cause of socialism? :confused:

I am shocked! :evil:

Waitone
August 6, 2005, 10:07 AM
But, suprisingly enough, the NRA doesn't seem to have shelled out for that form of advertising.

A foolish economy, if you ask me. All to common. Google up "death penalty" or "capital punishment" and you'lll see the same thing. Advocacy groups from the left pay the bucks to get high search results. The opposition takes what it can get.

Kingcreek
August 6, 2005, 10:14 AM
Everybody should take a minute and check out the AHSA website. http://www.huntersandshooters.com/
This takes deception to another level.
At least the 3 groups probably have different desks, right? Right?
(AHSA=American Horse $h_t Association)
Any suggestions on how to counter this horse poo?
:fire:

stevelyn
August 6, 2005, 10:35 AM
Looks like the Democanic Party has taken lessons from organized crime syndicates and the CIA, and set up "front companies/organizations" to conceal their real activities/agendas.

Waitone
August 6, 2005, 10:39 AM
Hey, everyone! I just surfed through the site. Talk about a target rich environment! The safety rules are just exactly what you'd expect if they were written by someone who didn't know doodlie-squat about shooting. Actually, what they have is pretty lame and evidently ill-informed.

I suggest we make AHSA an ongoing public service project. It will allow us to sharpen our public advocacy skills and provide entertainment at the same time. But wait, there's more. We can also help the DLC and DCS sharpen their aim also by providing helpful suggestions as to how to bait a field in the policy arena. Don't forget to sign up for the emailer.

This just too good to be true. :D

Kingcreek
August 6, 2005, 10:53 AM
This from the AHSA website:
"The American Hunters and Shooters Association really is what you, the members make it -- how you talk about it in the duck blind, the gun shop, with your neighbors or at work.

How you help us to improve and respond to your needs is what will make this organization a success. AHSA is, in part, about what you put into it. We want to hear from you, your suggestions, your thoughts and, yes, your constructive criticism."

so i sent this:

Since AHSA seems to welcome comments, How about you start by dropping this scam. The DLC/AHSA/DCS alliance certainly does NOT represent me or most shooting or hunting sportsman. I am offended that you would stoop to this kind of deception and will do everything I can to "spread the word" among the true sportsmen and women. To put up this facade for apparent political leverage and further your well-known anti-gun agenda reveals much about the people behind the DLC/AHSA/DCS alliance.


BTW, the shooting and hunting resources page seems to give nothing but state DNR info.

Have fun!

MrTuffPaws
August 6, 2005, 10:56 AM
From the sight

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

These 27 words protect the rights of Americans to own and use guns. The American Hunters and Shooters Association is committed to these words and the ideas and principals behind them. Protecting our homes, preserving our liberties, hunting, and sport shooting are American values that AHSA will vigorously defend.

But, there is no constitutional right to arms for criminals, terrorists, or others who seek to abuse the very freedoms the Constitution guarantees.

According to legal memoranda filed in court by the United States Justice Department, the Second Amendment allows for the passage of reasonable laws designed to keep guns out of the wrong hands.

Under the Constitution and laws of the United States, gun ownership is a protected right. But it is a right that when exercised requires the utmost in responsibility and vigilance.

In formulating AHSA legislative policy the AHSA Board of Directors will always weigh the common sense interest of hunters and shooters against basic safety and security interests of our community at large. In this way a rational, well thought out approach to firearms policy will be developed and promoted.

Each week AHSA will examine a gun policy issue in order to better inform our members of the issues that shape public opinion about the shooting sports.


We love guns and you should too, but we reserve the right to take them away. Glad that memorandas have such spaning legal power :rolleyes:

El Tejon
August 6, 2005, 10:59 AM
Umm, yeah, well the Bill of Rights was written to ensure that the rights of the community never trumped the rights of the individual.

I'm not giving up my rights so Sally Soccermommie can feel safe. Sorry, have a nice day. :)

countertop
August 6, 2005, 11:05 AM
Here's what I wrote about them (http://countertop-chronicles.blogspot.com/2005/08/phoney-baloney-democrat-bs.html) last week on my blog

Triggerfinger has the details on the latest Democrat fraud American Hunters and Shooters Association.

What a crock of crap.

David Cordera has more on these frauds, including the revelation that they are run by the DCS Group, a Democrat political consulting group with a gun control nightmare of a client list.

I don't know about the gun control part, but I can confirm DCS is a nightmare group. Back in the day when I was practicing law we were working on starting a coalition to advance one of our clients interests. A partner at the law firm - a big time Democrat (who happens to remain a very good friend of mine) who's daughter left a media job to work as a close advisor to Hillary "The Bitch" Clinton - brought DCS on board to handle to PR aspects. Ugh. The only thing I found them to be were the PR arm for whatever direction the Democratic Leadership Council wanted to move in.

Anyway here's a list of DCS's management.

You can peruse the entire list, but I'll just point out that the senior two advisors there are its president, Gerry Kavanaugh (Ted Kennedy's Chief of Staff) and David Bonior (about as liberal a democrat as they come).

If that hasn't scared you yet, check out their client list. And yes, you Rocky Toppers - Harold Ford Jr's Senate Campaign is being run by Teddy Kennedy and Associates.

Hawkmoon
August 6, 2005, 12:08 PM
Since they claim that "In formulating AHSA legislative policy the AHSA Board of Directors will always weigh the common sense interest of hunters and shooters against basic safety and security interests of our community at large," ...

Who makes up their board of directors?

Waitone
August 6, 2005, 02:13 PM
Leadership info
http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=32&Itemid=44

Anyone know how these guys are organized? They claim to be tax exempt. Anyone know of a 527 site ?

Lookie here. Helpful hints on how to clean your dirty guns
http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=26

And here we have 13 safety rules
http://www.huntersandshooters.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=64&Itemid=26

DMF
August 6, 2005, 02:37 PM
Well maybe they learned the tactic from Mary Rosh! :eek: :D

Drizzt
August 6, 2005, 03:00 PM
Bad idea on their part, having John Rosenthal listed as VP of Shooting Resources. He's made plenty of statements in the past which point to his real goals, and those are certain to be used against them.

Q:What do you say to gun control opponents who say owning a gun is a right, while driving a car is a privilege?

A: There have been more than 40 Supreme Court decisions that say gun ownership is a privilege. You have "the right" to have a National Guard, but those rights don't extend to individual gun owners.

http://www.familyeducation.com/article/0,1120,1-11110,00.html

RavenVT100
August 6, 2005, 03:20 PM
Ask them to add a section describing how to float an AR barrel, since it's one of if not the most popular rifles for national match/service competition.

countertop
August 6, 2005, 04:50 PM
Here is the email I sent them

Thanks so much for putting together another much needed advocate for civil rights. I look forward to seeing you grow.

One area though where I think you can really beef up the web page is by providing links to hunting guides as well as some technical knowledge. Its an area where the NRA provides some great service to its members, and would be a welcome addition to your site.

For instance, I am looking for hunting guides in Northern Virginia. Could you recommend one (I just moved to the DC area)? Also, I just purchased a new XM15 E2S V Match Rifle for national match competitions (I hope to shoot it next year at Camp Perry) but would like to float the barrel. My old gunsmith doesn't perform the service (not lucrative enough) but it really does make a difference in scores. Is it possible to put up instructions in a "technical" corner of the web page or put up a list of gun shops/gunsmiths who can perform the service?

Finally, you should put up some step by step guides to help people navigate through the maze of "reasonable" safety restrictions on the right to purchase and own firearms - say for obtaining a class III license or a C&R license.

Thanks and good luck

Waitone
August 6, 2005, 05:07 PM
Countertop,
:D
<bows deeply at the waist, backing up and exiting the room>

If this were a golf forum your post would be a Tiger Wood Drive--"You da Man!"

Brett Bellmore
August 6, 2005, 07:08 PM
This would be a good time to be proactive, send letters to all the various media outlets, calmly informing them of the evidence that the AHSA is nothing but a DLC public relations front.

They might not like us, but they DO hate being taken in by trickery.

Oh, and I intend to leave any mention of Lott out of this; I think the bad rap he's gotten isn't entirely deserved, but any suggestion that he's involved in exposing them will be all the excuse they need to shut their eyes and go "la la la la" while you try to present the evidence.

Standing Wolf
August 6, 2005, 07:22 PM
Does this mean the representatives of the Democratic (sic) party are fibbing again?

Why, how very surprising!

short_ar15
August 7, 2005, 07:35 PM
Standing Wolf, they're only fibbing when their lips move.

benEzra
August 7, 2005, 10:19 PM
Bad idea on their part, having John Rosenthal listed as VP of Shooting Resources. He's made plenty of statements in the past which point to his real goals, and those are certain to be used against them.

Here's one of his more inspired statements, regarding over-10-round handguns and rifles with protruding handgrips:

"Assault weapons are truly weapons of mass destruction whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible without having to stop and reload. Twenty percent of police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with these weapons which are designed to penetrate police body armor from more than 1000 yards."

http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/alerts/reader/0,2061,571186,00.html

He's speaking of guns covered by the Feinstein ban. It's hard to imagine cramming more falsehoods and technical errors into two sentences than he does...

"Weapons of mass destruction." I guess Bush DID find WMD in Iraq, then...and I suppose Hiroshima and Nagasaki were actually leveled by a deranged gunman with a civilian AK-47 lookalike. :scrutiny:

"...whose only purpose is to kill as many people as possible without having to stop and reload"? Yup. That's why your local police officer carries an over-10-round handgun on her hip, so she can mow down as many people as possible without reloading. That's also why many police officers have AR-15's in patrol-car roof racks, I'm sure... :banghead:

"Twenty percent of police officers killed in the line of duty are killed with these weapons which are designed to penetrate police body armor from more than 1000 yards." Aside from the fradulent statistic (from the VPC), the "designed to penetrate" factoid is ridiculous. At 1000 yards, an "AK-47" bullet is traveling only 781 ft/s and carries only 166 ft-lb of energy, per my ballistics program. That's less velocity than a .38 special, which can be stopped by a level I vest, never mind a level II or IIIA like most police officers wear. Besides the fact that the maximum effective range of an AK-style rifle in 7.62x39 is around 400 meters at most, and most of these rifles were "designed" before Kevlar was even invented, anyway.

Did I mention that my Toyota Camry goes 255 mph and gets 150 mpg? I wonder if I could sell these guys the Brooklyn Bridge... :p

Ieyasu
August 8, 2005, 01:52 AM
Robert Ricker is listed as the registrant of the site. Compare his statements made last year, http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0609-05.htm, to those made in 1999, http://www.wmsa.net/organizations/ASSC/ricker_cnnchat_990505.htm.

TonkinTwentyMil
August 8, 2005, 02:33 AM
...of Hillary and the Dem Leadership Conference (DLC) ripping off a page from his classic "Political Triangulation" playbook.

The AHSA's pure-triangulation strategy is to "position" itself as some voice of authority and "common sense" on the whole festering gun issue -- THE issue which has cost them dearly in the past 2 national elections.

More specifically, they'll aim to position their voice to the right of the Loony-Left Socialists who just want to ban guns... and to the left of all us NRA/GOA "wing-nuts" who (a) actually know something about guns, and (b) take it as an article of faith the the 2A AIN'T about (just) duck-hunting and trap-shooting... but ALSO about Self-Defense AND resistance to tyranny, oppression, and abuse of political power (see Patrick Henry).

->> "If someone is so fearful that they're going to start using their weapons (just) to protect their rights... it makes me very nervous!"
-- Congressman Henry Waxman, D-California (Beverly Hills/Santa Monica)

->> "We're going to have to take some things away from you on behalf of the common good."
-- Senator Hillary Clinton, D-NY, 6/28/04

This strategy was deployed with some success in the last Virginia governor race, where Democrat Mark Warner cleverly formed a "Sportsmen For Warner" front-outfit. It was pretty transparent to anyone who could tell the difference between a Browning Hi-Power and a brown cow, but it was good enough to peel off a few thousand votes from the suburban-Soccer-Mom/RINO/Moderate/Undecided (i.e., ballistic-illiterate) demographic in swing precints to get him elected.

So, this new group will try to refine this game and take it national. Expect them to heavily target Ohio and a few swing states like Iowa, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Virginia. Assuming the polarized '08 Electoral Vote (by states) stays the same as '04, all they have to achieve in '08 is to peel about 65,000 Ohio Republican votes away to the Dems -- and Hillary wins the White House.

After all, who REALLY needs those Evil Black Rifles/Assault Weapons (which is ANYTHING that's "semi-automatic"... even a can-opener!) just to go deer hunting? I mean, gosh, it's (a) just Common Sense, and (b) For The Children!

Stock up on those barf bags, folks. We'll all be puking for major-league distance when the American Hunters And Shooters Association cranks up its faxes and megaphones... all with the MainStream Media and Hollywood cheering it on.

->> "Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics doesn't take an interest in you."
-- Pericles, 430 B.C.

Henry Bowman
August 8, 2005, 10:13 AM
Look for them to do the same with "religion." The Dems think that they lost in 2004 because thay didn't talk the talk of gun owners and Christians. Howard Dean said that they had to learn how to "talk like a southern preacher."

It's all talk. It's all fake. Those who wish to be fooled will be.

Ieyasu
August 8, 2005, 11:48 PM
I've done some searches on "2nd amendment" and "Second amendment" at yahoo this morning. Looks like the AHSA has bought a high ranking in their sponsored results, they come up on every search that mentions that term.

Same with Google.

They pay per click. Ie., they pay a certain amount per unique visitor. This is Google's program (https://adwords.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=6382&hl=en_US)

Standing Wolf
August 9, 2005, 12:15 AM
Looks like the AHSA has bought a high ranking in their sponsored results...

Kind of like representatives of the Democratic (sic) party and voting.

mountainclmbr
August 9, 2005, 11:51 PM
It seems that the Democrats fall into predictable patterns. If the only tool you have is a hammer then every task looks like a nail. To the democrats every problem can be fixed with a hammer AND a sicle.

TheOtherOne
August 10, 2005, 11:07 AM
Same with Google.

They pay per click. Ie., they pay a certain amount per unique visitor.Yep. While there are CPM (Cost per thousand impressions of the ad) campaigns that google adwords has started selling there is still a very good chance they are paying per click. They set a budget each month and I'm figuring it's better for us that know the website is a scam to use it up rather than some unsuspecting new hunter that is just getting into this whole world.

tetchaje1
August 11, 2005, 10:23 AM
Yep. While there are CPM (Cost per thousand impressions of the ad) campaigns that google adwords has started selling there is still a very good chance they are paying per click. They set a budget each month and I'm figuring it's better for us that know the website is a scam to use it up rather than some unsuspecting new hunter that is just getting into this whole world.

I'm all for bankrupting their internet budget, but if they weather the storm and survive the financial crunch they will use it as political leverage in any election in which they are invovled. I can see the headlines now:

"The AHSA has major support from gun-rights groups and advocates, yielding more than 356,000 website hits in the first month." :barf:

There has to be a better way to get the word out without giving them any way to use the attack as leverage in the future.

alpineman
August 11, 2005, 11:29 AM
Did any of you read the section on "A Gun In The Home For Self Protection?" Whoever wrote that must be exhausted from all that tap-dancing. If you'll excuse me, I have to go vomit now...

Omni04
August 11, 2005, 01:13 PM
hey everybody, im sure you are all familiar with www.wikipedia.com right?

well i looked and i cant find anything for The American Hunters and Shooters Association. Maybe somebody would be able to submit the entry! As long as it isn't too biased of course- but when i heard about this group that is the first place i looked.

maybe by adding that entry the thousands of people that frequent that site may get a little early education.

Unfortunatley i am not current enough on the issue to type up anything :(

ctdonath
August 11, 2005, 07:59 PM
Not the first time...

Anyone remember California's "SKS Buyback" program some years ago? where CA allowed the registration of SKSs past a certain deadline, then went "oh, we're sorry, those are illegal now even though we accepted your registration paperwork, you'll have to turn them in ... just to help clear things up, go to sksbuyback.org for directions ..."

Uh-huh. Aside from the fact that sksbuyback.org suffered questionable accuracy regarding which SKSs were legal and which were not, likely leading to many legal ones being turned in as erroniously presumed illegal, there was another rather shocking behind-the-scenes fact:

The California government-promoted website sksbuyback.org was hosted in Australia and operated by someone in China. I kid you not. Two of us investigated & reported this, and as we probed we saw the hosting & operations registration hastily get changed to US addresses. (We got sksbuyback.COM set up, informing habitual ".com" typists of the illegality of CA's acts.)

Yes, our opponents use deceit in this fight ... and have very strange bedfellows.

AZRickD
August 13, 2005, 02:25 AM
Another good site with info on this sham front group...

http://gunlawnews.org/history/ahso.php

Some highlights
We have just run across this new website that appears to be more 'site' than 'organization' although they are more than happy to take your money.

History - It Is Pretty Short
The huntersandshooters.com website was licensed April 25, 2005. The majority of the site seems to have been written in June. So they are brand new.

The licensing company is DCS Congressional.

Update: August 7, 2005 - As of August 3, the registration information for huntersandshooters.com has been updated to reflect the AHSA as the owner of the site name. There is no change in the blatant anti-gun rights positions expressed on the site.

Who Is DCS?
They are a collection of Democratic operatives that have worked for some of the country's leading gun grabbers.

Gerry Kavanaugh - President

... a close advisor to the John Edwards for President campaign. Prior to working for John Edwards, he was the Policy Director for the Democratic National Committee. Mr. Kavanaugh served as Senator Edward M. Kennedy's Chief of Staff and worked with him through both his 1994 and 2000 re-elections.

David Bonior - Founding Principal

Elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1976 serving for 26 years. A reliable voter for gun control.
Even their IT guy has done work for the Humane Society of the US. They are a group that works to end hunting in the United States.

What DCS Says About Itself?
From What We Do:

DCS utilizes cutting edge technology to create a winning Internet strategy for elected officials, campaigns and organizations. Our experienced political and Internet team will work directly with campaigns, political organizations, and their strategic partners to develop a plan that combines creative, research-driven messages with aggressive online advocacy. We will work with your fundraising, press and issue teams in their earliest stages to develop effective Internet strategies, full media plans, and fundraising strategies that can be turned into potent and powerful solutions.

My favorite part is: "research-driven messages". What they are really saying is that they find out what you want to hear so that their client can tell you that.

Who Does DCS Work For?
From Clients:

Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)
Congressman John Conyers (D-MI)
Congresswoman Diana DeGette (D-CO)
Congressman Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
Congressman Jim Moran (D-VA)
This is a who's-who of gun grabbers. They also list a slew of other Congressman. Every Congressman that DCS lists is a Democrat. That should tell us something.

Leadership
Ray Schoenke, President of AHSA
Major Donator to Gun Control Politicians & Groups

Connecticut Yankee
August 13, 2005, 08:22 AM
"...There is every indication that they are a suborganization of the Democratic party. They are even in the same building as the Democratic Leadership Council. They will be happy to take money from gullible gun owners and use it against them and us. THE REAL GOAL IS TO FRACTURE THE POWER OF THE NRA BEFORE THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION SO THE DEMOCRATS FACE A LESS FORMIDABLE OPPONENT (caps. added). In no way is the gun rights block a monolithic voting block. Some will love this group; some will be deceived by it. Make no mistake. THEY ARE THE ENEMY OF THE CONSTITUTION (caps. added)."

Thanks AzRickD for finding this info!

Slotback
August 20, 2005, 11:44 PM
I have to admire the brilliance of their little scheme. Evil SOB's.

dbrowne1
August 28, 2005, 12:45 PM
John Rosenthal is a weasel and a well-known gun ban advocate. This organization is clearly a well-organized play to make democratic candidates more appeallable to the O/U and bolt rifle constituency out there that doesn't care about semiautos, or the Second Amendment. They're trying to divide and conquer.

They do state that they support S. 397 (Gun Manufacturer Immunity). Maybe that's a good sign that it'll pass...unless they mean "we support S. 397, as long as it includes all of our "reasonable" bans on semiautos, .50 cal rifles, magazines that hold more than 3 rounds, and other provisions."

NHBB
August 31, 2005, 04:16 PM
being in the internet advertising industry... the amount of money it would require to make a strong advertising campain promoting faux advocacy groups is minimal with the money behind these people. for 30 grand a month you could make people believe there is a massive movement to introduce eating canines as an economical means of maintaining ultimate well being and nutrition.

NHBB
August 31, 2005, 04:17 PM
and on that note, if we were to pool resources, we could easily create advertising propaganda to offset these people's agenda.

benEzra
September 29, 2005, 02:11 PM
Here's John Rosenthal's own take on AHSA:

http://www.weeklydig.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/article.view/issueID/3613d31c-1a53-4c0a-ba45-13c0d75a742a/articleID/13baa8b3-5c5e-4420-ba38-6ac57b4cada9/nodeID/8ea67746-b4d9-4901-88ec-65210e243151

"But the frustration is, while we’re the national leader in gun laws, we’re an island surrounded by a sea of states with virtually no gun laws.” Which left Rosenthal with two options—either replicate the Stop Handgun Violence model in 49 other states, or replicate it once, nationally. Rosenthal chose the latter, co-founding the American Hunters and Shooters Association and vowing to bring “common sense” to the nation’s gun debate; and if he has to go through the NRA to do it, so be it.

“We need a nationwide membership group to engage reasonable gun owners who don’t think there should be unrestricted access to guns for kids, criminals and terrorists, and that’s what the NRA thinks. We’re going to set the record straight—you can be for gun rights and for violence prevention. It’s just common sense to lock your gun, require background checks and not sell 50-caliber assault rifles with no questions asked to any fanatic, terrorist and criminal.”

Not according to the NRA, however: Although Hunters and Shooters is in the early stages of a soft launch, they’re drawing all kinds of heat from the Commie-hating gun show crowd; they’ve already been labeled gun-grabbers in camouflage and a front for the Democratic Leadership Council.

“They’re very, very concerned,” Rosenthal says. “Our policies are so reasonable to the average gun owner, that they’re threatened; until now, it’s been a one-sided debate. The NRA is the terrorist’s best friend. They’re the criminal’s best friend. They’re the total enemy to common sense and safe parenting, frankly—yet they control Congress.”

So AHSA is intended to be Stop Handgun Violence (one of the most extreme anti-gun organizations in the nation) on a national scale, with the stated purpose of bringing Massachusetts-style gun-owner harassment to YOUR state... :fire:

So there is absolutely no question at all where this group stands. None.

IZinterrogator
October 22, 2005, 03:03 AM
Standing Wolf, they're only fibbing when their lips move.That's not true. They don't even have to move their lips anymore to lie. They just talk out their @$$es instead.

bigun15
October 22, 2005, 03:35 AM
My word. I read through that sites Emergency Scenarios basically for teens such as myself. Questions like "what to do if you find a gun, what if there's a school shooting, what if....etc." I want to puke. It makes it sound like the adults are gods that solve all of our teenage problems. I'll be damned before some of the adults I know are more responsible with a gun than me. They'd check to see if it's loaded by shooting at a wall. "Just tell an adult, and everything will be fine. Granted there are some times I would (such as the scenario where someone has a gun in their backpack). But look at this and tell me if I am wrong, why I am wrong, etc.

Scenario: What do you do if you and four friends find a gun? What if you are by yourself?
Well if it is four of my friends and I, I take out the magazine, check (and clear, if necessary) the chamber, and have one of my friends call the police. If I am alone I clear it, take it with me(so no one with bad intent can get it) and have a physical meeting with a police officer about it and tell him everything I know. Let's see what AHSA has to say:

Discussion: If you find a gun, do not touch it. Notify an adult, who can secure the firearm and then turn it over to the police. Getting an adult may be as simple as calling out to a passerby, it may mean using a cell phone to call the police, or it may mean staying with the gun while a friend goes to get help. If you are alone, you may have to leave the gun where it is and go get help yourself. If there are younger children in the area, you should tell them that you have an emergency and send them to get an adult while you stay with the gun.

Right. I'm going to just "call out to a passerby." Do you know what it would be like to BE the passerby. "Hey you, I just found a gun. Could you call the cops for me?" Right.

</rant> Sorry. Sometimes you just have to get it off your shoulders, you know?

jsalcedo
October 24, 2005, 04:27 PM
Tricky devils aren't they




From the websiteAHSA supports S. 397 the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act in it's current form and urges the House of Representatives to amend H.R. 800 to conform to the provisions of S.397.



AHSA believes the FBI should be given reasonable access to National Instant Check System (NICS) purchase records to insure terrorists and other prohibited individuals do not have access to firearms.


AHSA's 13 Principles of Gun Safety
Learn the Mechanical Characteristics of Your Firearm
Treat Every Firearm As If It Is Loaded
Always Point the Muzzle in a Safe Direction
Keep Your Finger Off the Trigger
Never Rely on a Mechanical Safety
Keep Gun Unloaded and Action Open Until Ready to Shoot
Know Your Target and What's Beyond It
Use Only the Correct Ammunition for Your Firearm
Know What to Do in the Event of a Misfire
Wear Protective Ear and Eye Equipment
Keep Firearm Free from Obstructions and Well Maintained
Don't Modify Your Firearm
Do Not Mix Guns with Alcohol, Drugs, or Fatigue

gpdave
November 4, 2005, 01:18 AM
Ok, here goes first post. . .

Actually, when i saw AHSA, i thought to myself "pretty good", in favor of manufacturer immunity, and owning firearms for self defense. Seems like they know what it's all about, i guess all those people at THR are full o crap and just reacting to anything that isn't ALL GUNS FREELY NOW!


but

then i saw a little tidbit about the 50 caliber banning. And I noticed that they said that it had no self defense or hunting use. . . but said nothing about competition (i later learn that " FUN" is not a reason for them), which of course, the 50 cal is a great firearm for (honest, its for the competition, honey ;) )
So i decided to do a little looking in on the executive directors, courtesy of thier list of people, and a google search with thier name and "gun"

Apparently everyone (except me) knew that rosenthal was anti-gun.

Well, here's a post by him

Let's look at the board of directors:
RICKER: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0609-05.htm



Board of Directors,

http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/related_docs/?doc=021104

Scroll down to the signatories.

About at this point, i found this linl, which did the work for me
http://triggerfinger.org/weblog/entry/6695.jsp



I consider myself edmucated :cool:

44Caliber
November 6, 2005, 03:50 PM
This is my opinion:

As an American with a constitutional right to "bear arms" for the protection of my person and family (the natural and absolute fundamental right and responsible duty of every American man and woman) I find fault with our two political parties and "Government".

Witness New Orleans, the looting and raping thugs and the Mayor's confiscation program which violated our citizen's rights.

On a practical basis the Republican party does better with 2nd amendment than any other political party and therefore I will in most instances vote [B[/B] . With the likes of Kennedy, Schummer, Feinstein and numerous others to vote Democratic would be a "derilection of duty" as a human being, parent and, husband, and ....suicidal!

44Caliber:)

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