Minor Rant: Why did I even bother getting my carry permit????


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priv8ter
March 23, 2003, 09:44 PM
The question is fairly retorical, so please, don't answer it, instead listen to my tale of sadness. I have read around enough here that I don't have any trouble justifying my permit...just there are some days I question why I paid the $50 bucks to get it.

Washington, despite the efforts of the folks in Seattle, is still a fairly gun-friendly state. My permit got to me a week after I applied for it.

But, I work for the Federal Government at the Trident Submarine Base, in Bangor, Washington. So, I can't carry my gun to work. Probably about 50% of my running around time is spent either on the way into, or home from work, so no gun then.

Then, let's say I plan on night out with the wife, something special, like a concert at the Tacoma Dome, or a sporting event in Seattle, well, they all say no weapons allowed. So, what, carry from my house to my car, then leave the gun in my car while I walk 6 blocks to the venue? What a waste!!!!!

So, I carry when I can...which is maybe 10-15% of the time, but, I hate it, because I never get a chance to get comfortable with the gun(I'm comfortable shooting, but I never get used to the feel of the gun on my body). It really needs to be an all or nothing type of act to get used to it.

The other thing that gets me is, it's not enough to be dilligent politically! I am not arguing with a private venue's right, whether it's Costco, The Key Arena, or The High Road, to set set it's own rules. But, if enough places say 'No Guns!" then it doesn't matter what kind of State or Federal Laws we have fought for!

The question is, what do you folks do about it?

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Blackhawk
March 23, 2003, 10:06 PM
Move to a truely gun friendly state.... :cool:

Vermont, Florida, Texas, etc.

dance varmint
March 23, 2003, 10:07 PM
Carry wherever legal. Nonlegal and unenforcible "No weapons" policies be damned. That should get you closer to 50%.

sm
March 23, 2003, 10:19 PM
Saxon and I share the same city, duh, I just noticed.

I understand but have the resident and Non-Res FL. Why?

Because although I believe the whole idea of gun control is wrong, even believing felons whom have served time --exclude the mentally defect and hard core should have guns, and the reality is the criminals ignore the laws--

I want to a) level the playing field, b) live by example of responsible gun ownership, and c) I'd really get pissed if I went to check on my mom at dark-thirty, get pulled over because a light is out and have some ill attitude,rookie, never been brought up with guns, bust me because I have a firearm in the vehicle.

Never mind the punk on the next corner selling dope with a stolen gun in his pocket.

So , No I don't go to some places, and I darn sure don't go to those that put up proper signage indicating CCW prohibited on their premise.

I'm an older returning student, I'll be 48 soon, If not already-I'll be a curmendeon before I finish school. Its just a dang Principle with me. So raised not to start a fight, but I was taught to darn well end one If I found myself in one. Not just the playground either, classroom too!

So I fight to improve on what I do have.
--
Aside: my comment about all being able to carry even felons , except mental defect or hard core murderers...

So one gets busted for embezzelment, serves his time, why should he/she be denied? Heck, I figure someone that smart can probably help our cause--especially if , nevermind, gonna say something about gov't...;)

P95Carry
March 23, 2003, 10:23 PM
It appalls me how in some places there are these vast number of ''no-go'' areas .... to such an extent that carry is totally ''fragmented''. All too often, that walk from car the few blocks to where you are going (gun free) is a time when you could be ''hit''. Daresay the perps can use this to advantage.:(

I count myself fortunate here in as much as court houses and schools are the only real ''no-go's'' ......... and so, I can most times carry 24/7 without impedance. I cannot remember the last time i even saw a ''no guns'' notice displayed anywhere either.

There are of course many who, regardless, will claim their rights under the 2nd and still carry most anyplace ..... if concealment is good then who's to know? Unless you get swept my damn metal detectors!

sm
March 23, 2003, 10:33 PM
I understand. I had to be unarmed because I had to get past metal detectors. I've been attacked also, 3 on 1, I survived, and not long ago either.

Not happy about it, but I did end it, on MY terms and I came out better than they.

I use alternate methods, I cheat, I survive, and I trry to get things changed with legislation. Concealed is concealed.

btw, a broken antenna from a truck makes a wicked tool against perps, I did leave a ten-spot under the wiper though.;)

Stevie-Ray
March 23, 2003, 10:57 PM
Tell the no-gun areas which are not illegal by law, but private property with rules, that you are not interested in visiting their establishment if CCWs are not welcome, and you are planning on suggesting the same to any other CCW holder. Explain to them also that you are leaving them at the mercy of any gun-toting moron who doesn't follow the rules, and wants to star on the 11 o' clock news. With all the new shall-issue laws appearing, and the increased interest in self-protection, they'll get the idea eventually, that they allow law-abiding gun toters in or close their doors permanently due to lack of business.

Zundfolge
March 23, 2003, 11:07 PM
Concealed is concealed ... take this from a former Kansas resident ;)
(no CCW there)

blades67
March 23, 2003, 11:08 PM
The question is, what do you folks do about it?

I don't tell them I have one, and I don't go to sports arenas. Just remember the rule of competing harms.

twoblink
March 23, 2003, 11:10 PM
Vermont ccw is what everybody should have!

See...

Only "real gun owners" obey the laws; the gang-bangers will carry 24/7 regardless of the laws..

So at some venues, they have effectively disarmed "the good guys" and made sure that only the bad guys have guns.

Neat idea huh? I'm glad the likes of Feinstein thought of it...

Oh, forgot, it's FOR THE CHILDREN..:barf:

andy
March 23, 2003, 11:28 PM
Priv8ter, the way I see it you, or shall I say "we" as we both live in the same state, have two choices: a) do not go to places that deny us our right to carry or b) if it is not illegal to carry in that place then carry anyway. If you are discreet about it they will never know and if they do find out all they can do is tell you to leave. Personally I'm sick of being treated like a criminal because I own/carry a firearm.

tomkatz
March 23, 2003, 11:44 PM
I live near seattle also, I refuse to not be armed, I have my permit, I obey the law, just keep it concealed, as far as I'm concerned these "venues" are breaking my laws, of constitutionality....tom

WonderNine
March 23, 2003, 11:45 PM
I'm at 100% carry with no carry permit.

Yes, I should be locked up and they should throw away the key, I'm a monster.

El Rojo
March 23, 2003, 11:49 PM
Yeah I work for a federal prison, so I am not supposed to carry even in the car onto the property. However, away from work, the only rule I follow is a simple one. No metal detector means I can carry there. A metal detector means I cannot. It is that simple. If they don't want me to carry, they will set up a metal detector. Otherwise, concealed is concealed.

Jedi_7.62
March 23, 2003, 11:54 PM
My philosophy is if I don't see a metal detctor I don't even worry about it. The only way they will ever know I'm carrying is if I have to use it. And in that case rules be damned!


Carried on liberal campus for several years against "university policy" every week or 2 you would hear about someone being atacked on campuss only a couple blocks away from one of the worst areas in the city.

It'll be a cold day in he** when my only line of defense is the hope of a campus cop wanders my way in my moment of need.

:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

Sports arenas and concert halls really make me mad I've all but quit attending such things. It's a principal.

QuarterBoreGunner
March 24, 2003, 12:44 AM
Ok see in this way, Californians who have been blessed by the DOJ to receive the holy grail of CCW, are a bit more fortunate.

Since CCWs in Cali are so rare, it never occurs to shop owners or other property managers to post “No weapons allowed” signs. ‘We’re all friends here in California, right?’

Morons.

I carry EVERYWHERE (outside of my house) except federal property (banks, airports- US post offices are still up for discussion)

My wife’s birthday was Saturday, we went to a nice restaurant, walked the 1 ½ blocks back to the car all the while with my Smith & Wesson 637 Airweight, loaded with 158grn “Metro load” LSWCHP in my front pocket. (Normally it’s a G30 with 185grn +P Speer Gold Dot but the whole suit and tie thing prohibits that…).

San Francisco businesses would never prohibit the carrying of weapons on their property because it would never occur to them that the general public might decide to take responsibility for their own protection.

Catch-22.

illuminatus99
March 24, 2003, 02:34 AM
I'm near seattle too, as long as they don't have a metal detector I'm armed, aside from bars, if I'm going out drinking either my wife or me is carrying, we never drink on the same night and the sober one carries.

Double Maduro
March 24, 2003, 04:21 AM
When I took my safety class the NRA instructor said that anytime we see a sign prohibiting carry in a private business we should let him know and they would talk to the business owner and that they were usually successful in getting the policy changed.

Now bring your Washington permit down to Oregon and get one here, be prepared to prove you haven't been confined to a mental institution for the last several years.

faustulus
March 24, 2003, 05:52 AM
Now I am not saying you should do anything illegal but...

I tend toward the "no metal detectors" rule. If they didn't want me to carry they would put them up. Also if you are in line to a club make sure you watch to see if they are patting people down. What they don't know won't hurt you.

I would rather be alive to face any consequences than dead by some moron who wanted $20 for a fix. I suppose that is my way of saying better judged by 12 than carried by six.

Coronach
March 24, 2003, 02:29 PM
Please allow me to interrupt for a moment.

We all believe that anti-ccw laws should be deemed unconstitutional and ripped from the books in every state, everywhere. However, until SCOTUS grants certiorari, hears a case, deliberates, puts pen to paper and issues a ruling, the various laws we discuss are the laws of the land.

Now, that said, I'm not sure exactly what the laws of the land are in the various locales under discussion. I would gently remind the membership, however, that 1. stating that you commit felonies on a public BB is not a very wise course of action and 2. advising others to commit felonies on THR is not permitted.

If these caveats do not apply to you or to this discussion, that is fine. Chalk this post up to an overabundance of caution and please continue. If these caveats do apply, however, please do heed them.

Thank you,

Coronach

spacemanspiff
March 24, 2003, 03:06 PM
most of us prioritize the things that are important to us, our families, and our rights should also be included in that thought process.

the safety of our family is important. the security of our homes is important. at what point does such safety and security become more valuable than obeying local laws? thats up to the individual. and that individual must also weigh the balance of the risk of getting caught breaking the laws. what are the repercussions? a ticket? jail? loss of 2nd amendment rights, if only temporary?

obtaining the ccw doesnt mean we can start going into places that are more dangerous. it simply gives us another option for taking care of ourselves. some of us work for employers that have specific guidelines in employee handbooks that prohibit the carrying of a weapon while on work premises. some feel their safety is more important than their job. some dont have that option as their employer takes steps to insure employees arent armed.
many of us have to make decisions about where to go to eat, shop, recreate, etc if we are armed.
it isnt a big deal. so what if i cant have a beer with my meal at a restaurant because i am carrying? so what if i have to take the kids to a regular playground instead of a school playground because i have a weapon on my person?

faustulus
March 24, 2003, 05:25 PM
I know in my state many of the places (outside of federal buildings) make it a misdemeaner to carry. However, TN has what is know as the "safe harbor" law. Basically if you use your weapon in preventing a felony the state cannot charge you with having your weapon in an area you weren't supposed to. However, I don't recommend carrying or not carrying, that is a decision each must come to on his own. We should work to get laws changed but the moral question is should we follow laws we feel to be morally corupt? If you choose not to and are caught, you have no one to blame, but then you were following a higher law and sometimes people will be persecuted for their beliefs. If you think about it America was founded on the principle of ignoring unjust laws. Again this is something each person must come to on his or her own.

suvdrvr
March 24, 2003, 08:35 PM
priv8ter, recomend you visit :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wa-ccw/
this group is for ccw in WA State. Many knowledgeable people there and can give you some good info on Wa state ccw.

HABU
March 24, 2003, 08:42 PM
I have carried in the King Dome and Key Arena. I did not see any signs or metal detectors, so I figured it was all good.

Phil Ca
March 24, 2003, 08:52 PM
I worked in federal buildings in SF for 27 + years and we always had a rule against carrying. When I was in a position to make a difference I ordered several small lockers and had then installed inside the entry where those that carried could lock up their firearm. I never took any flack for it and the other building eventually did something similar.

As for the stores that may have a" no firearms" placard on the door, I either don't go there or they never know that I am carrying. Over the years we have gone to the Fairmont Hotel to have a dinner at the Tonga Room at least 30 times or more. This was for celebrating birthdays,anniversaries,graduations etc. with family and friends. My carry gun de jour was there with me and no body ever saw it. Walking to the parking garage or another spot if they were filled up was never a problem either.

priv8ter
March 24, 2003, 09:27 PM
Not sure about the now extinct King Dome, Habu, but just this week, at least for NBA games, Key Arena started 'wanding' each person entering to watch the game.

4 eyed six shooter
March 24, 2003, 10:55 PM
Bottom line, Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. :evil:

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