A problem with the Golden Rule....


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arinvolvo
March 24, 2003, 01:32 AM
The Golden Rule: Always treat a firearm as if it were loaded...

Well, I have found a circumstance in which this rule is next to impossible to adhere to....Installing Hogue Hand All wrap around grips.

I have found numerous times, that when installing or removing these grips, I am breaking the Golden Rule.

That became apparent to me about 15 minutes ago, when putting these grips on my Steyr, I found the barrel pointed at my crotch and other "not so safe" directions. I also found my finger in the trigger guard and all over the gun in ways that I would not treat a loaded firearm.

Of course, I made absolutely sure the gun WAS NOT loaded, and even went so far as to remove the magazine and go into an "ammunition free" room of the house (bathroom)... This is also where I clean my guns...Sitting on the toilet lid and using the top of the wicker clothes hamper as a work bench works pretty well. ;)

Anyway, I just thought I would mention this little discrepancy with the ever present 1st rule of gun safety. In no way am I down playing the importance of this rule...but I just felt like mentioning it. My crotch insisted.:D

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WhoKnowsWho
March 24, 2003, 05:22 AM
You could have field stripped the pistol so you were only working with the frame. I don't think the golden rule also applies to "The frame of a handgun is always loaded"

raz-0
March 24, 2003, 05:40 PM
yeah I have put the hogue wraparounds on a friends 1911. I took the slide off. It wasn't just safety, it reduced the moving parts while I wrestled with the thing.

Same goes for a handall I put on my USP.

El Tejon
March 24, 2003, 05:51 PM
arin, point of order, the "Golden Rule" is Rule #3. No big deal, all are important, but Uncle Jeff designated #3 as "golden."

Strip your weapon and work with gun parts not the weapon and you'll be fine.

Tamara
March 24, 2003, 05:53 PM
El Tejon speaks wisdom (though it can be hard to be wise when putting grips on a wheelgun... ;) )


(Soundtrack of Tamara installing Hogue monogrip on wheelie: "Gt... frgt... smf... dmmt!" :cuss: )

:D

El Tejon
March 24, 2003, 05:57 PM
Tamara, so they don't put cylinder releases on Land of Orange revolvers?:confused: I say, I say, I doooo declare . . .

Tamara
March 24, 2003, 06:07 PM
So, uh, bent cranes are cheap to fix in Hoosierville? ;)

El Tejon
March 24, 2003, 06:36 PM
Cranes? The paper ones I fold?:confused:

Lone_Gunman
March 24, 2003, 07:57 PM
If you "treat all guns as if they are loaded", then how do you field strip it?

Battler
March 25, 2003, 03:42 PM
Depends.

You CAN field strip most/many guns without pulling the trigger or pointing them at anyone/anything.

For a Glock? Sorry, it's always loaded. Drop the mag, rack the slide TWICE (if the mag's still in it'll eject a second round, telling you the mag was still in, inspect the chamber and magsell.

Now, you ready?

Point the glock at something that you don't mind if it gets a bullet in it. That way, if you @#%! up the other steps you only get a bullet in this backstop.

Now, fire/dismantle the Glock.


Battler.

JohnBT
March 25, 2003, 04:11 PM
Scene - my friend is going to clean his Glock.

It's not him pulling the trigger on the Glock that bothers me, it's having to stop what I'm doing and put my oily fingers in my ears so I'll be ready in case it goes off.

John...speak up, I can't hear you when you mumble.

ktd
March 25, 2003, 07:23 PM
I find that those sleeve grips are easier to put on if they are warmed up a bit. Rubbing them between your hands works good.

Handy
March 25, 2003, 07:51 PM
For mountain bike grips I've always used cheap hairspray. It lubes it on, the carrier evaporates and then sticks it down. If you don't want it that stuck on, try 80% or better rubbing alcohol. Same idea, no stick.

Anybody think Arinvolvo is feeling a might sheepish, now?

Tamara, can't you remove the cylinder on a typical DA revolver easily? I don't know the answer, but my .22 comes out easily.

Tamara
March 25, 2003, 08:11 PM
Tamara, can't you remove the cylinder on a typical DA revolver easily? I don't know the answer, but my .22 comes out easily.

It's not ungodly difficult, but it's not something I'd want to do every time I cleaned the gun or switched grips on it; definitely more annoying than field-stripping an autopistol. Some folks think it's fun changing cylinder head gaskets on their car; me, I think it's swell that there're folks who'll take $20/hr to skin their knuckles on my behalf. ;)

Handy
March 25, 2003, 08:13 PM
Ah. My revolver is a break barrel and the cylinder slides right off the pivot at the push of a button.

chevrofreak
March 26, 2003, 12:17 AM
i put a Hogue HandAll on my G17 yesterday, and more than once i found myself staring down the muzzle, or with the muzzle pointed directly at my heart. i knew for a fact it was unloaded, so i didnt care.

These things sure do make a Glock feel great dont they?

yankytrash
March 26, 2003, 01:05 AM
Take the "Golden Rule" this way - You noticed the muzzle was pointed at your crotch/face/COM/whatever, right? You got thinkin, "Man, sure am glad I checked and triple-checked that this thing wasn't loaded." Some of you probably even went so far as to check it again at that point, or at least tried to get the muzzle pointed in another direction.

That's what I'd call "treating every gun as if it were loaded." It doesn't say "unload it", doesn't say "never handle an assembled firearm outside a hot range", it says, "Treat all firearms as if they're loaded."

I'd say y'all done good.

arinvolvo
March 26, 2003, 01:31 AM
Handy, I dont feel the least bit sheepish about my post...or about my gun-handling practices...I am not going to put Grips on a field stripped gun....I dont want all of those greasy and pointy parts exposed to such things as my pants, hands, grips..etc...

I have no real problem with the way that I do things...When I handle a gun in that manner, it is only after it is quadruple checked to make sure the gun is unloaded and safe...

Realizing that the muzzle of my Steyr is pointed at my jewels while cleaning, or installing some grips doesnt really bother me THAT much....I KNOW the gun is safe and incapable of firing...It just got me thinking about the rule...and I know that I would NEVER point a LOADED firearm at that area, or any part of my body for that matter. I was just something that made me chuckle to myself, and I thought maybe others might chuckle too.

Scott13
March 26, 2003, 10:48 PM
I have always been under the impression that once you have
Personally checked the weapon , and not put it down then it's safe to work on the weapon . Plus you are not pointing the gun
at yourself on purpose , your installing a part .

Shawn Dodson
March 27, 2003, 12:02 AM
Concur with Scott13.

Although I'm a rocket scientist by profession, this ain't rocket science folks. A gun is always loaded until you personally verify it is not loaded.

In training I've had real guns pointed at me, and I've pointed real guns at others. However the caveats here are: 1) I consented to participate in training "close to the edge," 2) those who I've pointed guns at have consented to "train close to the edge," and 3) the guns were verified unloaded by a minimum of at least three different people: me, my training partner(s), and the instructor who's facilitating the training.

yesterdaysyouth
March 27, 2003, 09:20 AM
It's not ungodly difficult, but it's not something I'd want to do every time I cleaned the gun or switched grips on it; definitely more annoying than field-stripping an autopistol. Some folks think it's fun changing cylinder head gaskets on their car; me, I think it's swell that there're folks who'll take $20/hr to skin their knuckles on my behalf.

you find me someone who will take 20/hr. to change head gaskets and i've got some work for them....

make sure they know it's a subaru...

STW
March 27, 2003, 01:59 PM
I found that if you spray just a bit of WD40 in the hand all grips they go on easily with out all the fuss and bother. Similarly, a bit sprayed in when you want to remove them and they slide right off.:D
Of course they doesn't take care of the gun store clerk that while fussing with a pistol pointed it for what seemed like an eternity at my belly. Only the fact that I'd watched him check it and had checked it myself (twice) kept me from having a fit. I probably was way way too nice. :what:

Mike Irwin
March 27, 2003, 03:05 PM
Some months ago I came up with "Irwin's Rule No. 1" for handling firearms.

Don't be a freaking moron.

It's really a catch-all rule, but when used in conjunction with General Rule Number 1, treat all firearms as if they are loaded, you have a very easy path to follow.

By checking first to ensure that the gun is unloaded before you work on it, you're avoiding being a freaking moron.

The chances are that the gun isn't just going to spontaneously load itself to the point where you're endangering your dangly bits when you install the new grips.

If, however, you were to walk away for awhile and then come back to the task at hand, Irwin's Rule No. 1 indicates that it would be prudent to check the load condition of the gun again before proceeding.

Case in point where I almost violated Irwin's Rule Number 1, and almost became the poster child for stupid gun handling in action...

Some time ago I was working on a gun on my bench. At the time I left it, it was unloaded.

I didn't get back to it for several days, nor despite wracking my brains, do I remember going back to it for any reason in the interim.

Well, I picked it up off my bench, sighted across the room, and was going to squeeze off a couple of dry shots double action.

Luckily, as I was squeezing the trigger, every fiber in my being started screaming "SOMETHING'S WRONG!"

Even more luckily, I listened to that sixth sense, eased off on the trigger, and flipped the action open.

Yep, the gun was loaded and ready to go.

As I said, to this day I still have NO recollection of having loaded it, or even having been in the basement between the time I first left it and the time I picked it up again.

No one was in my home during that time, and my dogs certainly didn't do it.

Yet, it was loaded, and I was going to "dry fire" it.

Rule Number 1, treat guns as if they are loaded, is intended to set a repetitive mind set -- that you always check the action to ensure that the gun is loaded and generally handle firearms, loaded or unloaded, in a safe manner.

DMK
March 27, 2003, 05:05 PM
Yep, the gun was loaded and ready to go.

As I said, to this day I still have NO recollection of having loaded it, or even having been in the basement between the time I first left it and the time I picked it up again.

No one was in my home during that time, and my dogs certainly didn't do it.

Yet, it was loaded, and I was going to "dry fire" it.

That's a simple yet powerful story all at the same time Mike.

Funny thing is, I've done the same thing when working on my cars. I've caught myself looking for a part, then realizing I already installed it with out any memory of doing so. The mind is a curious thing sometimes.

Checking the chamber(s), mags and breach is a very good habit to practice repetitively.

Carlos
March 27, 2003, 07:10 PM
Think I might want to install Hogue grips on my Steyr M40 as well.

:)

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