Mailing Firearms


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thereisnospoon
August 9, 2005, 07:50 PM
Okay, so call me stupid, but I have been working under the assumption that a citizen can mail a firearm to an FFL for transfer to a buyer. Recently, I was chastized by my FFL for having a firearm shipped directly to him buy a seller.

What is the law? I called the F-Troop in B'ham and they gave me one story...this FFL gives me a second and now I'm confused.

Please help! :confused:

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Hawkmoon
August 9, 2005, 08:16 PM
Handgun or long gun?

In state or multi-state?

SIOP
August 9, 2005, 08:39 PM
A non-licensee can ship a firearm, longgun or handgun, to a licensee in any state. Just can't use USPS for a handgun. Lot's of FFL's really don't have the first clue about the rules, even though BATFE sends each one a big package with all the books and forms in it.

Graystar
August 9, 2005, 08:50 PM
It depends on your state. The vast majority of states have no additional restrictions on shipping and receiving guns. For those states only federal restrictions apply and itís perfectly fine for a non-FFL to ship a gun interstate to an FFL (handguns priority, long guns ground, and never by USPS.)

But in states like New York, additional record keeping requirements have been placed upon gun dealers such that they cannot accept guns sent to them by non-FFLs. When they receive such guns they are required to turn them over to the police.

SIOP
August 9, 2005, 10:05 PM
But in states like New York, additional record keeping requirements have been placed upon gun dealers such that they cannot accept guns sent to them by non-FFLs. When they receive such guns they are required to turn them over to the police.

I've been reading over New York state laws and can't find a reference to this requirement. Can you tell me where to find it?

thereisnospoon
August 9, 2005, 10:08 PM
I was mostly talking about long guns interstate...

Thanks for the info...

kirkcdl
August 9, 2005, 10:22 PM
So many misinformed people-Anyone,repeat ANYONE may ship a long gun via the Postal Service as long as the transaction is otherwise legal.Any "concealable" gun must use a FFL that has a Form(3801?)on file with his local Post Office.I highly recommend everyone to approach their FFL with the idea of using USPS.It saves a lot of money over Fedex or UPS overnight,which is what they both require on handguns.The form only has to be filled out once...

Graystar
August 10, 2005, 12:54 AM
I've been reading over New York state laws and can't find a reference to this requirement. Can you tell me where to find it?Yeah, thatís right...you can't find 'cause it aint there. You can't find anything on the ballistic imaging system either. That's because it's all in the NYCRR (New York Code Rules and Regulations.) The NYCRR is huge, about 70 volumes I think, and you have to buy it. It cost about 3000 bucks.

Every little part of NY government has its rules in the NYCRR. The NYS Department of Health has an unofficial version of NYCRR Title 10 and 18...rules for running the DoH...on its websites. Other divisions, like the State Police, donít.

As I understand it, NYS record-keeping rules require firearms dealers to enter into the log book the authority under which handguns were previously possessed. Simple possession of handguns is illegal in New York State (a state handgun license is essentially an exception to that particular part of Penal 265.) Gun dealers are required to contact the police when they receive a gun that wasnít possess under the few ďauthoritiesĒ that NYS recognizes, two being a NYS handgun license, and an FFL. If a gun dealer canít prove that a handgun in his possession was legally possess by whoever he got it from, he can kiss his New York State firearms dealer license away, and might even be threatened with jail time.

Technically, a citizen from a state that registers firearms should be able to mail a firearm to NYS along with proof of registration. HERE is where the full faith and credit clause properly comes into play. NYS MUST accept the state registration information as being true and valid. However, thatís a bit too much for gun shop owners to deal with, and they usually just say that you have to have an FFL mail the gun to them.

Yeah, NYS sucks.

BTW the CoBIS system is defined in Title 9 of the NYCRR, section 493.

Graystar
August 10, 2005, 09:53 AM
So many misinformed people-Anyone,repeat ANYONE may ship a long gun via the Postal Service as long as the transaction is otherwise legal.kirkcdl is correct, although considering the USPS's habit of losing important packages, I would strongly suggest they never be used, and tend not to even tell people they can.

Any "concealable" gun must use a FFL that has a Form(3801?)on file with his local Post Office.This bit of advice, however, I believe is wrong.

Section 1715 of Title 18 (Firearms as nonmailable; regulations) expressly states that manufacturers and dealers can mail concealable firearms to each other. Anyone else may face jail time.

I'm not sure exactly what form you're saying that the FFL must have on file with the PO, but to mail a concealable firearm the sender must fill out form 1508, and it explicitly states that it can only be used by manufacturers or dealers.

But you know...anything is possible. kirkcdl, if you can get more specific details on the procedure weíd love to hear it.

http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf

http://www.usps.com/forms/allforms.htm

TarpleyG
August 10, 2005, 09:55 AM
My FFL will not take a shipment from anyone but another FFL. His rule. Guess it's a CYA thing.

Greg

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