Sharpshooters may cull 550 deer from city park


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esheato
August 10, 2005, 05:35 AM
Sharpshooters may cull 550 deer from city park
Link (http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050809/NEWS01/508090351/1056)

The Cincinnati Park Board wants to hire police sharpshooters to kill 550 deer in Mount Airy Forest next year in an effort to curb the exploding deer population there.

The program, a first for the city, could be expanded to California Woods in an effort to reduce the deer population citywide.

The Ohio Division of Wildlife says the deer population in the 1,469-acre forest should be no more than 32. That's the number needed to ensure there are about 15 deer per square mile, enough to sustain a deer population without destroying a forest. The forest is about 2.2 square miles.

The Park Board estimated about 600 deer present last winter - a count it obtains through infrared photography from a helicopter at night.

By next winter, the number could go to 900. If nothing is done, deer population could theoretically reach more than 10,000 by 2011. By killing about 500 a year, they hope to gradually decrease the population to a sustainable level.

The overpopulation has sent deer into the surrounding neighborhoods in search of food - gnawing at underbrush, rampaging gardens and destroying new trees.

"They are nocturnal animals, but they aren't anymore. You can go through Mount Airy Forest in the middle of the day and they'll walk right up to cars, because people are feeding them," said Cindee R. Walsh, who lives near the park and is vice president of the Mount Airy Town Council.

"The fact of the matter is they'll eat anything if they're hungry enough. And they're hungry enough."

Park officials and neighbors say the overpopulation is beginning to take its toll:

With 714 deer-vehicle accidents, Hamilton County ranked second in the state last year, after Muskingum County. The previous two years Hamilton County led the state, according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol. The highest numbers were in October and November.

The forest is slowly dying because new trees don't have the chance to mature before deer destroy them, said city arborist Paula Miller. Wildflowers are also disappearing, and the lack of underbrush means that songbirds have nowhere to nest.

The lack of landscaping in Mount Airy may be contributing to flooding problems downhill.

Park officials say the overpopulation makes the forest ripe for poachers, and they've discovered deer stands and deer carcasses - evidence of illegal hunting, park officials said.

The culling program would start in Mount Airy Forest, which is the largest park in the city. California Woods on the East Side would be next. That would also reduce the number of deer roaming adjoining parks like Laboiteaux Woods in College Hill and Ault Park in Mount Lookout.

City Council quietly approved the plan without a voice vote last week - and without discussion - though it has not appropriated the $170,000 necessary to implement it. The Park Board hopes to get formal approval this fall after meeting with neighborhood councils in California, College Hill, Mount Airy, Mount Washington and Northside.

Park officials worry openly about the "Bambi" factor, as parks director Willie F. Carden Jr. called it in his report to the Park Board in June.

"There is a potential public relations issue since some people see the deer in an idealized way (like the 'Bambi' film) and may not want to see culling occur," he wrote.

And Walsh said a council member - who she did not name - told her he didn't want to be labeled a "Bambi-killer" in an election year.

Animal rights activists agree that overpopulation is a problem, but disagree on the tactics.

"It's going to become a perpetual and vicious kill cycle, which isn't a long-term solution to the abundant deer population there," said Stephanie Boyles, a wildlife biologist for the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. "The fishbowl these animals are living in is getting smaller and smaller. It's not necessarily that there are more deer. It's that the number of deer that have always existed here have to live on a smaller piece of land. It's not their fault."

PETA advocates the use of dart-administered contraceptives. Cincinnati Park officials said that solution requires precise timing and tracking of the animals to be effective - something that won't be feasible until the park first gets the population under control.

Indian Hill, Spring Grove Cemetery and the Hyde Park Country Club already have smaller culling programs. But the city's program would be modeled after a system that the Hamilton County Park District has had in place since 2003.

The county uses its own park rangers, who follow strict safety protocols. The culling happens only in the winter months, when visibility is better and people are less likely to be in the parks. The rangers clear the area and shoot at a downward angle only, from tree stands or trucks, toward the interior of the park. They use salt licks and other bait to attract the animals.

In three years, the county has culled 1,727 deer. The meat is donated to the FreeStore/FoodBank, and the park district estimates it has provided 227,000 venison dinners to the needy.

It's not cheap. The proposed $170,000 budget includes $45,000 for salaries and overtime for police and parks staff, $34,000 to process the carcasses, $30,000 for a public relations campaign and $20,000 for helicopter flights over the forest to count deer.

The use of .223-caliber rifles with silencers also requires special approval from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

To save money, the Hamilton County Park District will experiment with allowing qualified archers hunt deer in county parks during bow hunting season starting this year. But the county park district will also have to use the sharpshooters for the foreseeable future.

"It was a difficult step for us to make, but it was the point where we needed to do something," said Jim Rahtz, visitor services director for the county parks. "We've done it safely for three years. We feel we are making a difference with the health of the parks."

E-mail gkorte@enquirer.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
170k for a job that many of us would gladly do just to fill our freezer.

Ed

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280PLUS
August 10, 2005, 05:45 AM
Is that an oxymoron?

:neener:

c_yeager
August 10, 2005, 06:43 AM
So the city is going to pay $170,000 to have police shooters take care of these 500 deer? I suppose the idea of having a special hunting license for this particular area (maybe restricted to bowhunters if backstops are an issue) and MAKING MONEY (as well as making hunters happy) had never even occured to these people.

Heck, by the sound of it they could even make it a special permit for disabled hunters since it sounds like the animals are walking right up to people to get shot. Then they could be doing a good dead along with all the other benefits.

280PLUS
August 10, 2005, 07:03 AM
i was wondering why it was a job for the police myself. And I'm also wondering about .223 for hunting deer. At least they'll donate the meat if it goes through.

Yuppies, that's what it is. They're everywhere. And Walsh said a council member - who she did not name - told her he didn't want to be labeled a "Bambi-killer" in an election year. Why, there's one right there...
:rolleyes:

Ok, who haven't I picked on yet this morning?

:D

griz
August 10, 2005, 07:07 AM
Park officials say the overpopulation makes the forest ripe for poachers, and they've discovered deer stands and deer carcasses - evidence of illegal hunting, park officials said.

Did it occur to them that this unapproved activity has been going on safely for a while? Hmmm, free and safe hunters versus expensive and safe "sharpshooters". What the heck, it's only $170K.

And it still gets me that they have to call these folks sharpshooters. I guess it makes them feel like it's a proffesional operation that is incapable of wounding a deer.

280PLUS
August 10, 2005, 07:11 AM
And it still gets me that they have to call these folks sharpshooters. It's an ELECTION year, we MUST mind our P's and C's...

:p

garyk/nm
August 10, 2005, 07:18 AM
Hmmmm...........$170000/500 deer= $340 a head. Be cheaper to buy 'em bus tickets and send 'em to Montana. :D

taliv
August 10, 2005, 07:34 AM
ohio continues to be run by nitwits.

beyond the obvious solutoin with hunters,

.223 is widely considered inadequate for deer. if the deer are walking up to cars, just hit them with a hammer. (j/k)

i love how the city has to get approval for the silencers from the ATF. better get going on that paperwork... the deer population will grow faster than they can get guns to shoot them.

i'm surprised PETA didn't advocate family planning, sex education and federal funded abortions.

BeLikeTrey
August 10, 2005, 07:39 AM
They could have run a charity hunt. Charged individuals for special permits, put the charity name on it and used the 550 freaking carcasses to feed the homeless for awhile....

:cuss:Forget "bambi", I'd want those buffoons fired for wasting my taxpayer dollars on this... God I hope they arent in the stock market with idiotic moves like this. instead of earning money and solving problems, they throw money at a problem that WILL be back. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Browns Fan
August 10, 2005, 07:45 AM
Even though they are doing all this stuff to "try" to cull the heard, let a land owner shoot one himself and they'll lock him up in a New York minute!
:banghead:

SAW753
August 10, 2005, 07:51 AM
While I find this all highly amusing. I am honestly supriced that the deer popualtion has been able to reach the number curently estemated. While I understand that the deer are rampaging though the city in search of food I still find it hard to beleive that the popluation has not already hit its uper limit for growth. While I am not a hunter of aminals I can't imagine an hunter really wanting a deer that by the sounds of thing are just bearly surviving for the meat. How good can the meat of an aminal that is barely surviving be? I personal would not want to eat it. I think that the city could find people that are much better shots then their police sharpshooters to do the job for a lot less money. That is how the state of WI handled its problem with overpopulation and with a deer deasise two years ago. The hunt was so efective that there were no reported cases of the deasise last hunting season.

1911 guy
August 10, 2005, 07:59 AM
I work in Cleveland, Oh., and the Metroparks system just finished with this same foolishness last winter. I completely agree that bowhunting should be the answer to this. I can see where the area and surrounding homes in close proximity would not be conducive to shotgun slugs (no rifles in Oh.).
Secondly, in response to saw735, these deer are not the famished animals they might seem to be by looking at the numbers. They are venturing out of parks and such to chew lawns, flowers, shrubs and sapling trees to the ground. Oh, and then you've got the nit-wits who feed them and encourage the animals behavior of running back and forth across busy roads.

280PLUS
August 10, 2005, 08:04 AM
What you need out there is a bunch of people to get together and let them know what nitwits they actually are. Emails work! Especially lot's of them.

:D

cracked butt
August 10, 2005, 08:48 AM
Idiots, all bleeping idiots!

I would bet that there are plenty of bowhunters around the city who
A: looking for a good place to hunt
and
B: are more than willing to spend $$s on a permit to hunt on park land.

$170,000 in tax payer money when the city could actually make a profit off allowing hunters to hunt the land? Can you spell C-O-R-R-U-P-T-I-O-N?

I hope every fricken one of the city officials smack a deer with their cars on the way home from work tonight :fire:

cracked butt
August 10, 2005, 08:50 AM
To add:

The animal rights people should be ignored on this one... unless they themselves are willing to pony up the $170,000 to pay the 'sharpshooters' or for an alternative method, year after year.

foghornl
August 10, 2005, 08:53 AM
What torques me off about this plan...

Ohio is constantly in a state of "Budget Crisis" but cities are more than willing to shell out $$$ to OUT OF STATE FIRMS & PEOPLE FOR THIS JOB.

Hey, I'd go $50 for a special permit/tag. And never mind the .223...I'm bringing the .30/30 or .30-06.

Ohio "Game & Fish" laws/rules/regs right now are for shotguns & slugs ONLY, unless using a handgun...then minimum of .357 bore & 5" barrel. Wanna see how they get around that. If "Game & Fish" guys give them an exemption on calibre, I'm gonna howl for years. :fire: :cuss: :banghead:

El Tejon
August 10, 2005, 09:04 AM
Why not bring in Terrible Ted and charge bowhunters $100 a deer? Hang with Ted and keep your deer?

cracked butt
August 10, 2005, 09:07 AM
Why not bring in Terrible Ted and charge bowhunters $100 a deer? Hang with Ted and keep your deer?

I'd make a road trip for that one :evil:

1911 guy
August 10, 2005, 09:15 AM
Foghornl, they already did the .223 thing last year. Also, a point of interest, I don't know if this is the same outfit that did the Cleveland MetroParks shoot last year, but that guy had no credentials. He was a dude with a bussines card and he got hired. Plain Dealer (local paper) had a story on it.

Greg L
August 10, 2005, 09:27 AM
i'm surprised PETA didn't advocate family planning, sex education and federal funded abortions.

They are. They've been on the news around here (the park is +/- 20 miles from me) complaining that the "sharpshooters" should be using crossbows with syringes full of contraceptives to shoot them with :scrutiny: :banghead: ).

As far as the idea of having a charity hunt/permit system that would if not make money, at least not cost the city anything - never going to happen. The only sure thing around here is that if Cincinnati City Clowncil is presented with a couple of options they will 99% of the time pick the most expensive/least effective one. You can also rest assured that somehow by the end of the week this will turn into a racial issue.

I'm so glad that I escaped the city limits of that looney bin 8 years ago.

foghornl
August 10, 2005, 10:46 AM
1911 Guy:

I sort of remember last year's program around the Solon, OH area...but I didn't recall the calibre issue, just that they hired "Sharpshooters" from OUT OF STATE.

I howled at the Game & Fish guys about it but pretty much just got blown off.

Hmmmmm Maybe I'll lobby our legis-sneakers to yank the funding out from under those clowns. Oh yeah, the G&F guys give the CCW folks out hunting a hard time..say when you are hunting that CCW law doesn't apply...you can't CCW while hunting..has to be open carry.

They (G&F Division) should be renamed B&HP Division...

Bozo & Hockey Puck Division.

DonP
August 10, 2005, 11:11 AM
The more I read this, the more it sounds like a plot line for a Robin Hood movie.

Someone is illegally killing the King's (City Council's) deer. Quick send armed men into the forest.

These guys sound like they take lessons in stupidity and corruption from the Chicago City Council.

Step One: We have a problem.

Step Two: Which aldermans brother-in-law can quickly form a woman or minority owned firm to solve the problem at a premium price.

Step Three: Don't ever really solve the problem so your contract is renewed ona no-bid basis year after year.

Step Four: Make sure you kick back at least 40% of your contract fees to the alderman that got you the contract in the first place.

Oh, and if they do buy into the idea of hunting with the "Nuge" and grilling the kill, it would make a great Reality show. Count me in too.

entropy
August 10, 2005, 11:53 AM
"POLICE SHARPSHOOTERS" :what: WHy, why they m-m-might have developed their skills by dry firing! We can't let such trigger happy yahoos, that will shoot at anything that moves without regard to the target or beyond it, to snipe these deer into submission.....oh, wait one, I...I... thought I was Swamp Fox for a moment. ;)

Nice to see the local government in Cinci utilizing their collective brain cell... :rolleyes: At least they have the forethought to donate the meat.....hope they check it for CWD first. :eek:

Lonestar.45
August 10, 2005, 12:08 PM
That would NEVER work here in Austin "LIB CAPITAL OF TEXAS". There's a deer population problem in several areas around here. In once instance, they trapped the deer, and shipped them to ranches in Mexico that had little to no deer. Once the public found out that there was a *slight* possiblity that these deer may be hunted on those ranches in the future, they went ballistic. And I'm not talking about canned hunts in small high fenced areas, but 100,000+ acre "pastures". If the police were to shoot these deer here in Austin, I think the PETA types would chain themselves to the deer (never mind they're hitting them daily and trashing their BMW's, etc.).

scout26
August 10, 2005, 01:08 PM
Here in DuPage county we spent $1.2 MILLION taxpayer dollars last year for USDA sharpshooters (Why fool around with local police when you can bring in the Feds) to cull in the deer herds in the Forest Preserves.

And yeah the usual suspects (blissninnies and bunnyhuggers) went nuts.


Sounds to me like Cinci is getting off cheap if they can do it for only 170 large.


Meanwhile, I spent between $500 and $1000 in Southern Illinois doing my deer hunting, both archery and shotgun.

Is there a Urban/Suburban Bowhunters group ??? If not there should be. Maybe we could get this lunacy stopped. I'd pay $50-$100 for a "Forest Preserve" tag.

I seem to recall something along the lines of "When life gives you lemons, make lemonade."

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

MatthewVanitas
August 10, 2005, 01:13 PM
Imagine getting up every morning, putting on a suit, going to work, all for the sole purpose of explaining why you're letting people shoot Bambi. Assuming the PR job is a temp job just for the culling season, that's pretty good money. But I'd imagine it could really irritating giving the same "why we do it" explanation every day.

Flyboy
August 10, 2005, 01:27 PM
If the police were to shoot these deer here in Austin, I think the PETA types would chain themselves to the deer
Yes, but there might be a downside, too. You might hit one of the PETA clowns and contaminate the meat.

Henry Bowman
August 10, 2005, 02:37 PM
Idiots, all bleeping idiots! Oh yes. They're thicker than deer around here (at least in city government).

The deer here are not skinny. They are big and healthy. They are, however, destroying the vegetation in the park (and in yards, including mine).

You can also rest assured that somehow by the end of the week this will turn into a racial issue. Yep. The Man, working one over on the deer.

It has to be done by "police sharpshooters" because the city has to be fully liable (via taxpayer money) for any snafu that may occur.

Sulaco
August 10, 2005, 03:07 PM
The more deer they kill, the less soccer moms will want to move down here to escape that kind of thing. For the sake of my South, please support your local Ohioan sharpshooter.

scout26
August 10, 2005, 05:48 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jerry Springer the mayor of Cincinnati a while back ????


That would explain alot..... or maybe not...... :scrutiny:

Crosshair
August 10, 2005, 05:50 PM
These "POLICE SHARPSHOOTERS" must really suck if the best they can manage is a .223. I vote that we have a drawing on THR for 10 people. Whoever wins gets $17,000 and the chance to kill 50 deer. Since it is my idea, I get one of the spots. :cool:

scout26
August 10, 2005, 05:51 PM
The Ohio Division of Wildlife says the deer population in the 1,469-acre forest should be no more than 32. That's the number needed to ensure there are about 15 deer per square mile, enough to sustain a deer population without destroying a forest. The forest is about 2.2 square miles.

The Park Board estimated about 600 deer present last winter - a count it obtains through infrared photography from a helicopter at night.


Sounds like you can't swing a dead cat in that park without hitting a deer.....Ooops, wrong state, feral cat culling, that's in Wisconsin. :evil:

Eightball
August 10, 2005, 06:02 PM
So, this means that police snipers will actually get to use their weapons outside of a range? :scrutiny: and that they won't get sued? :scrutiny: heaven forbid :rolleyes: I wonder how long until animal rights leftists put a stop to it :barf: .

Standing Wolf
August 10, 2005, 06:06 PM
Yet another example of government "planning" that costs lots of money, fails to accomplish anything useful, and antagonizes everybody.

Would the founding fathers weep or laugh?

JeepDriver
August 10, 2005, 06:06 PM
We just demoed a couple suppressed bolt guns in .308 for the Howard County, Maryland Police department for the same purpose.

They didn't buy yet, but they were amazed at how quiet the guns werewoith the correct ammo (Black Hills Sub Sonic)

there were 3 of us at the gun store who offered our services as bow & rifle hunters on County lands, but they thought us in camo carrying suppressed rifles might scare the sheeple :confused: :confused:


OH and the COP's that were testing the rifles weren't all that 'sharp' of shooters. They needed a bit more trigger time before they were un leashed on the deer

Greg L
August 10, 2005, 08:13 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jerry Springer the mayor of Cincinnati a while back ????

20-25 years ago iirc (back before my time started here). Now he wants to be the Governor of Oh :uhoh: :rolleyes: .

He bounced a check to a hooker & the resulting scandal either cost him the next election or he resigned (someone who was around then can give the whole story).

XLMiguel
August 10, 2005, 08:43 PM
There are more deer in the lower 48 now than when the white man got here 400 years ago.

According to the IIHS (Ins. Institute for Highway Safety. IIRC), deer do approximately $4 billion in damage in encounters with motor vehicles annually.

Like many other wild animals, white tailed deer are adapting just fine to urban/suburban environments. I live inside the Capital Beltway and I see deer in my yard with fair regularity. Last Spring Ch 4 News (NBC) was showing an adult doe ambling about their proerty in NM DC during teh 5 o'clock news. About a month ago I saw an eight point buck that was 150# if he was an oz. 50 yds down the street at 1 in the afternoon. I spoke with Fairfax Co Animal Control (and I use the term loosely) and was told that there is an active herd of 40+ animals in my neighborhood, and was further informed that they use the cement culvert for Pimmit Run ("run" is Southern for "creek") as their own access road to all the gardens in the area. Them deer ain't hardly going hungry.

The county culls them each year, and the Bambistas go nuts, but saner heads prevail, at least for now. I think it would be great fun to give the bunny-huggers a dozen Trojans and let them try and put them on the bucks.

Good hunting to all you Buckeye's.

Vegetarian: Indian word meaning "lousy hunter"

scout26
August 10, 2005, 08:51 PM
He bounced a check to a hooker & the resulting scandal either cost him the next election or he resigned (someone who was around then can give the whole story).

Do you have any idea how much Dr. Pepper through the nose hurts ???



Assuming that that's true, I gotta ask.

1. Where do you find a hooker who takes personal checks ?? (and NO, you cannot answer "Cincinnati")

2. As Mayor he could not get a contractor/donor to donate either a) a hooker or b) the money to put in his checking account for one ???

3. Is he still on TV ??? (IIRC, a couple of rather well respected news anchors here in Chicago quit in protest when the station was going to give him a couple of minutes to wax philosphically on the local nightly news.)


I apoligize for drifting off-topic,
COULD SOMEONE PLEASE PULL THIS THREAD BACK ON TOPIC !?!?!?!?!?!

Greg L
August 10, 2005, 09:06 PM
Here you go Scout (http://www.cincypost.com/living/1998/spring042998.html). It is a column/editorial back when Jerry wanted to do news commentary in Chicago. I had a few details wrong (nothing bounced/time frame) but the story is essentially correct. Sorry about your nasal passages :evil: .

Anyway, back to the ungulates....

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