U.S. Court Upholds Pledge of Allegiance in VA schools.


PDA






Ironbarr
August 10, 2005, 09:41 PM
http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3707691

If you enjoyed reading about "U.S. Court Upholds Pledge of Allegiance in VA schools." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Ironbarr
August 11, 2005, 10:47 AM
Full story here:
http://epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMjAwNS8wOC8xMSNBcjAwMTAx

AOL users:
http://epilot2.hamptonroads.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=VmlyZ2luaWFuUGlsb3QvMjAwNS8wOC8xMSNBcjAwMTAx

Vang
August 11, 2005, 01:12 PM
The articles aren't clear; are students required to recite the pledge, or is the pledge required to be read by the school?

If it's the former, this decision will be overturned. If not, it's anybody's guess.

Graystar
August 11, 2005, 01:18 PM
The law requires kids to recite the pledge.

Iím betting that the case will go to the Supreme Court and that the court will rule the law unconstitutional.

Vang
August 11, 2005, 01:19 PM
For sure. I think there's even case law in this area.

countertop
August 11, 2005, 01:52 PM
It will be upheld.

The case you are discussing took place in the 9th Circuit - which is overturned in over 90% of the cases it sends to the Supreme Court.

In the 9th circuit case, I believe the Supreme Court declined to hear the appeal (I could be wrong). If memory serves me correct there were substantially problems with the fathers standing and it was an easy out for the Supreme's.

This might force them to rule - or might not. In either case - 4th Circuit decisions are upheld significantly more than 9th Circuit decisions.

skidmark
August 11, 2005, 02:11 PM
The articles aren't clear; are students required to recite the pledge, or is the pledge required to be read by the school?

If it's the former, this decision will be overturned. If not, it's anybody's guess.

Schools are required to lead students in reciting the Pledge - State Board of Education regulation. Any student may opt out by either standing mute or remaining seated and mute. Any teacher may opt out by requesting a student to lead the recitation. I've never heard of a case where the teacher remained seated, but know several teachers who do not recite the Pledge, and do not do the hand-over-the-heart thing.

As such, there is no coercion and, according to the learned minds of the 4th Circuit and SCOTUS, no foul.

I'm not that old, but have seen moving pictures of it. Does anyone else remember when the Pledge (pre "under God" days) was said with an actual arm gesture salute? (arm extended towards the flag, palm upwards) Seems that went out of style without much fanfare during the mid-30's, which is surprizing only because the anti-fascists (small-c communists) were hardly involved in that happening.

read your history.

stay safe.

skidmark

Vang
August 11, 2005, 02:14 PM
Then it probably won't be heard.

I do know that schools may not mandate that students recite the pledge.

I am not referring to the recent case involving the pledge, countertop. There have been other cases involving the pledge where students were mandated to say it. Nedow's case was attacking the pledge itself, not a mandate to say it.

Graystar
August 11, 2005, 02:18 PM
It will be upheld.

The case you are discussing took place in the 9th Circuit - which is overturned in over 90% of the cases it sends to the Supreme Court.I can't speak for Vang but I personally was thinking of the recent McCreary County, Kentucky, et al. v. ACLU decision where the Court removed a display of the Ten Commandments. The court rules that despite Kentuckyís attempts to make the display seem historical/educational, the original intent of the display remained, which was determined to be a promotion of religion.

Iím hoping the court will find that the inclusion of ďunder GodĒ in the pledge was religiously motivated and should be removed.

Vang
August 11, 2005, 02:20 PM
They won't do that, I assure you. They've avoided taking cases that force them to rule on the pledge itself, and will continue to do so.

dolanp
August 11, 2005, 02:44 PM
It's long been decided that you cannot force the student to recite the pledge. If that's the case then it will be overturned. The Newdow challenge was that the wording itself should be stricken. Based on precedence he might have succeeded if the Court hadn't used the standing technicality to avoid the case.

MrTuffPaws
August 11, 2005, 05:22 PM
^^^^^

That case made me feel like the SCotUS lacks any clout at all. If you don't take the controversial cases, then why bother. What is worse, is that they decided to hear it, then ruled the case invalid due to technicality that had IMO little to do with the case at hand.

As for this case, if the school forces you to say the pledge, then it will be overturned higher up. No one should be forced by the government to say anything.

Ironbarr
August 11, 2005, 07:08 PM
Sometime back in ancient times (1937/1948) the Pledge was recited by students, led by the teacher, in my first class of the morning. Right hand over heart (if you remembered right from left).

This in Secaucus and Jersey City NJ - what others did, I have no idea.

Vang
August 12, 2005, 12:29 AM
The Supreme Court will almost always not answer the core issue of a case if possible. A lot of the debate in the Supreme Court is about issues that have nothing to do with constitutionality.

If you enjoyed reading about "U.S. Court Upholds Pledge of Allegiance in VA schools." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!