Sad case at my High School (where I teach)


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silverlance
August 11, 2005, 07:08 PM
There is a LOT of brown-black violence going on right now down by Florence and the 110 onramp in Los Angeles. Flores Gang here has killed multiple black boys and recently, smoked two cops. The Bloods (playboy and 42nd street) have done likewise...

One of my 11th grade kids (one of the good ones) got arrested last night. He was walking out of a Carl's Jr with a friend after eating, and got accosted by a big gangster from Florence Gang (flores).

The big guy got up in their face and then got another step closer... so Mario (who is about 5'7 and skinny) pops the guy as fast as he can with a right hook and when his friend hits the guy too Mario kicks him in the face as hard as he can and runs like the dickens.

now mario isn't a perfect kid - he's on probation, but he shows up to class everyday at 1st period, does all his homework, etc, never even makes any threat to anyone or refernces to gangs. no tats.

well the cops come, mario is still running from the gangster - and he realizes that he might get caught by the cops, who think he is running from them, so he ditches all his stuff (id, bus pass, etc). a big cop catches up to him, throws him to the ground, cuffs him. they don't read him his rights until he gets to the station, but try to make him talk in the car. he says he doesn't want to talk.

they refuse to let him call his mother for four hours, and try to make him talk about gang activity by acting friendly and asking things like, "so you know a little about the boys around here, what's been going on?"

he tells them that he's not into that...

then at about 4 am the cops start asking them, "what are you two mexicans doing at etc, etc..."
so mario says, "no offense, but my friend here is cuban, and some people take offense if you call them mexican"
the cop says, ok, we'll call him a cuban motherf**** then...
they also give each boy a blank piece of paper and ask them to "write their feelings down"

at 4:30 in the morning they finally uncuff him, tell him he's being charged with felony aggravated assault (the officers claim they never saw the gangster, that they only saw him beating someone - which they haven't been able to find) and felony possession of a marker over 1 inch (which he was given at work to mark boxes for loading), give him what could hopefully be a fake "ticket" (which is common around here when they want to make kids go to court and then find out that nobody knows who they are) and drop him off exactly where they found him, on a corner behind a laundromat.

this morning he still has the cuts from where the cuffs were - he said that he'd asked to have them loosened only to have them tightened. i could also see where his face had met ol' papa concrete.

this kid is no saint, but i know he's not lying. as a teacher (or anyone, really) after you've spent a long time with them you know when someone is lying and when they aren't.

with behavior of the LAPD like this, is it no small wonder that all my kids call cops "pigs" and hate the cops? i try to tell them that not all cops are like that, but when this is all they see, it's hard for them not to tell THEIR kids the same story....

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Steve in PA
August 11, 2005, 07:15 PM
And you know this because you were there and witnessed everything first hand, or because your student told you his version? :rolleyes:

Vitamin G
August 11, 2005, 07:47 PM
I work with teenagers.

Rule 1 : Don't trust them.
Rule 2 : They manipulate.
Rule 3 : They triangulate, and attempt to split authority figures.

This is particularly applicable if :

this kid is no saint

Old Fuff
August 11, 2005, 08:00 PM
I don't like what I read either, but I've know that from previous varified news reports that there have been problems with the L.A. Police in the area mentioned.

So I won't jump to any conclusions, but will (unfortunately) accept that what silverlance posted could be true. I don't know that the cops in question are necessarily saints either ... :rolleyes:

And while there are a lot of bad teens there are also good ones, and I'll take the teacher's word for it that this kid is going to school, working at it, and apparently holding down some kind of a job besides.

In my eyse that buys him some creditability, and I wish him (and his teacher) some good luck. The Old Fuff knows what they are up against.

Dead
August 11, 2005, 08:04 PM
"Felony possesion of a marker over 1inch"?? Whoa! What next crayons?

MrTuffPaws
August 11, 2005, 08:18 PM
What is up with the marker? You can get a felony over a marker?

SLCDave
August 11, 2005, 08:24 PM
"Felony possesion of a marker over 1inch"?? Whoa! What next crayons?

Grafitti is a serious problem, so it has been lumped in with other serious crimes that were never intended to be felonies. Try and keep up. ;)

Shalako
August 11, 2005, 08:29 PM
Its used for tagging. Stopsigns, bus stops, cars, doors, fences, windows, urinals, whatever. Its pretty much everywhere and I can never read what they say. :confused:

boofus
August 11, 2005, 08:30 PM
***. Here in TX I can carry a full blown machinegun around legally and most cops wouldn't even care. But over there you can lose all of your voting and gun rights over an ink MARKER??? Are we even in the same country any more? :confused:

HankB
August 11, 2005, 09:01 PM
A kid on probation is charged with two felonies (including marker possession?!?!) one of which was violent, ditches all his ID before he's caught, and then the cops just gave him a ticket and simply dropped him where they found him?

The story sounds very, VERY fishy. I won't evey TRY to guess which parts - if any - are true.

bg
August 11, 2005, 09:11 PM
Nope. This is the iron skirts of Corruptfornia. If one wants to see how
trully things are down in L.A and surrounding areas, one has to go to the
circus and view SoCal thru one of those mirrors that bestows the
distorted..

L.A and now most of the coastal Cal area and inwards or is that inbred,
have fallen to the mad hatter..I'm 70 miles east, and I see the tumor
from the L.A basin growing larger and more malignant out here everyday.

The chronicle above surprises me not at all.. :(

Standing Wolf
August 11, 2005, 09:26 PM
Grafitti is a serious problem, so it has been lumped in with other serious crimes that were never intended to be felonies. Try and keep up.

I'm sure I'll always miss the temperate climate and beaches.

The chronicle above surprises me not at all.

I'm getting along just fine without mild weather.

Jim March
August 11, 2005, 09:41 PM
Folks, I had a public defender EMail me today about a knife case where the guy clearly has done NOTHING wrong. They're still trying to prosecute.

This state's law enforcement has headed straight to the toilet. I've personally seen things worse than the incident at the top of this thread so yeah, I believe the kid.

Flyboy
August 11, 2005, 09:57 PM
felony possession of a marker over 1 inch
And then the cops wonder why people don't respect them.

ak47nevada
August 11, 2005, 10:59 PM
I'd think of teaching school somewhere else.... "or having a camera installed in the classroom for protection and wearing body armor and having some pistols handy in nearby hidden locked locations."

GregGry
August 11, 2005, 11:06 PM
And then the cops wonder why people don't respect them. And cops wonder why people believe everything they hear about them is true. You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works :rolleyes:

Gunsnrovers
August 11, 2005, 11:18 PM
well the cops come, mario is still running from the gangster - and he realizes that he might get caught by the cops, who think he is running from them, so he ditches all his stuff (id, bus pass, etc).

That part kinda throws it.

My wife teaches in Inglewood (I substituted there for a year in 2001). It's a tough place to be, but the LAPD problems are certainly not a one way street.

Hawkmoon
August 11, 2005, 11:45 PM
"Felony possesion of a marker over 1inch"?? Whoa! What next crayons?
Grafitti is a serious problem, so it has been lumped in with other serious crimes that were never intended to be felonies. Try and keep up.
Oh ......... My ........ Gawd :barf:

KriegHund
August 11, 2005, 11:50 PM
I work with teenagers.

Rule 1 : Don't trust them.
Rule 2 : They manipulate.
Rule 3 : They triangulate, and attempt to split authority figures.

Seems more to me like...

1- Teens are emotianal.
2- Teens think they are way smarter than they acutally are
3- They can be fatally loyal or really bad backstabbers.

silverlance
August 12, 2005, 12:52 AM
no, I don't believe kids... as a matter of fact, having been around for a while (taught ex-cons in community colleges, taught juves in high school, taught the mothers of kids in jail at CSULA...) I tend not to believe any of them. after all, I wasn't a saint either... if not for a couple of good friends and a knack for a few things I would have become Black Dragon or WC or any of those other asian triads that were running around when I was in HS. I got picked up by the cops once and when my friends heard about it they shamed me so much, called me a low-life, all that stuff - that I never went near that way again.

anyway.

point is, PEOPLE are generally liars when there is something to be gained regardless of age - it's just that teens have a slight advantage because they appeal to our sense of (oh, i was there once). one of these days i'll tell you about the heartbreakingly pretty 15 year old girl that got her friend drunk so that she'd be ok with hooking herself in the bathroom during lunch to a campus security slime...

but this kid really has been working hard, never been tardy once until today even though my class starts at 7:35am (and one has to realize that this is a school whose "failed to graduate" rate is about 51%).... and he has absolutely nothing to gain (except maybe the pleasure of talking to me or impressing me... yeah...) by making this stuff up.

and as for markers.. yeah, i believe him, because here at my high school getting caught with a sharpie (permanent marker) is a misdemeanor with a $250-$750 fine if they can show that you have intent to tag...and intent to tag can be as silly as picking up the kid's folder and pointing to writing on the cover - even if the writing is the kid's own name. as long as it LOOKS like tagging writing, it's considered intent to tag... now how many of you liked to write your name in "fancy letters" when you were in grade school? esp. if all the "fancy letters" you see are on walls? how would your writing look?

the $250-750 fine is another travesty.. it's supposed to shock the parents into disciplining their kids, but what it really does is make them beat their kids, kid (who never got much attention to begin with) runs away from home... etc...

nor are the cops the big bad jack booted thugs of indiana jones, either - some are very good at heart, but then the media loves to portray cops as low lifes and when you get beaten over the head repeatedly for all sorts of slime you didn't do (ie., beat kids, shoot w/o provocation, etc), and after while you get kind of bitter... and bitter cops are dangerous.

and, one cannot forget that while many cops are intelligent, wise, and stalwart members of our society, there are many (esp. in LA) that are doing it just because it pays 45k to start and are not only crummy cops, but stupid as a pile of poop to boot. i should know - i tutored many would-be cops who couldn't spell, read, or (most disturbingly) make simple logical connections.

everyone down here knows that any cop who really wants to make a difference would be hard pressed to do so in LAPD - so the dept. often takes candidates that are less than sterling simply because they need people so badly.

and as for my own experiences with cops in LA? well, they sure aren't like the ones in the town i grew up in... when I got a ticket at age 18 for making an illegal u-turn, i accepted the ticket, thanked the cop, and offered to shake his hand. he looked at me and said, "I don't want to shake your hand".... =\

then when i was burgled a few months ago I called 911, got a busy signal for 10 mins, got through, put on hold for 30 mins, then waited 9 1/2 hours for cops to show up to pick up the tools that the theives had accidentally left behind and fingerprint the house. by that time it was 3:30 in the morning and since i hadn't been able to enter the house i had a terrible backache form sitting on the driveway....

finally, I once had a black 180lb 9th grade girl (i mention race only to describe) pull out a 4" box cutter on another student when he made as if he wanted to throw an eraser at her (he was a jerk, but um.. a knife?). i went to campus PD (we have 3 cops on duty) and reported it.

by the time they "got around" to dealing with her, she had already gone home and then they said there was nothing they could do about it anymore.

bear in mind that I told them at 11:14am and school lets out at 3:30pm.


sigh*


when i was a kid cops were always good to me... they were prompt, helpful, and always polite. they stopped to ask you if you were ok if you seemed lost, and once helped to find my little sister when she ran away from home in tears at 4 in the morning.

then again, that was a city of something like 130,000 as opposed to LA city, which has something like (i'm guessing) 6 million people in it or so... documented.

hillbilly
August 12, 2005, 01:07 AM
silverlance, I encourage to think about immigrating to the United States just as quickly as you can.

hillbilly

geekWithA.45
August 12, 2005, 10:23 AM
Any jurisdiction that has designated posession of a pen to be a felony, and the ability to write as evidence of intent to commit felonious wall writing is hopeless and needs to be abandoned in haste.

I really mean it.

Run for your fleeping lives, and for the tattered remnants of your spirits.

Henry Bowman
August 12, 2005, 10:28 AM
Apart from all the rest that may or may not have happened to this kid last night...felony possession of a marker If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

Zach S
August 12, 2005, 10:49 AM
You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works :rolleyes:
Wanna bet?

ETA: For the record, I dont hate cops, but I dont rely on them either.

hillbilly
August 12, 2005, 11:25 AM
What numerous posters on this thread have said about a jurisdiction that actually has such a charge as "felonious possession of a marker" +1000!

Get out of there, yesterday!

It's too far gone to save.

I'll bet not even North Korea has laws against possessing magic markers.

Get out while you still can.

hillbilly

countertop
August 12, 2005, 11:38 AM
I've been to California once. Never been to LA. I don't think I am going to go there any time soon.

hooking herself in the bathroom during lunch to a campus security slime

Huh??? Maybe I am too old (I'm 33) but can you explain to me what this means. It made no sense to me at all.


Also, what is an Asian Triad???

yeah, i believe him, because here at my high school getting caught with a sharpie (permanent marker) is a misdemeanor with a $250-$750 fine if they can show that you have intent to tag...and intent to tag can be as silly as picking up the kid's folder and pointing to writing on the cover - even if the writing is the kid's own name. as long as it LOOKS like tagging writing, it's considered intent to tag... now how many of you liked to write your name in "fancy letters" when you were in grade school? esp. if all the "fancy letters" you see are on walls? how would your writing look?

I knew they didn't recognize the 2nd Amendment in California. Have they thrown out the 1st too????

rock jock
August 12, 2005, 11:45 AM
I tend to believe this story.

Cops are a reflection of the communities they live in. A city run by and populated with corrupt power-hungry liberal gun-grabbing tyrannical socialists is going to, by necessity, produce a goodly percentage of cops who follow this same profile.

boofus
August 12, 2005, 12:03 PM
I'm guessing "Hooking up" = doing the wild thang

Asian Triads are mafia gangs from China, Taiwan, Hong Kong. They pretty much run entire industries in those countries. Jackie Chan had a hard time with the Triads when he just started making movies in Hong Kong.

Keaner
August 12, 2005, 12:07 PM
"Hooking"- Im guessing it has to do with "Selling" oneself's "activities" for a period of time, like what "hookers" do?

Anyway, the marker thing is reDONKulous.

countertop
August 12, 2005, 12:12 PM
Thanks.

I don't normally think in those terms (I'm happily married), but yes, it makes a lot of sense now.

Did they throw the security guard in jail????

Mr. James
August 12, 2005, 01:55 PM
:barf: :mad: :mad: :mad: :barf:

Felony marker possession??? That is so over the top I went searching...

Section 594 of the California Penal Code says:

594.2. (a) Every person who possesses a masonry or glass drill bit,
a carbide drill bit, a glass cutter, a grinding stone, an awl, a
chisel, a carbide scribe, an aerosol paint container, a felt tip
marker, or any other marking substance with the intent to commit
vandalism or graffiti, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(b) As a condition of probation for any violation of this section,
the court may order the defendant to perform community service not
to exceed 90 hours during a time other than his or her hours of
school attendance or employment.

(c) For the purposes of this section:
(1) "Felt tip marker" means any broad-tipped marker pen with a tip
exceeding three-eighths of one inch in width, or any similar
implement containing an ink that is not water soluble.
(2) "Marking substance" means any substance or implement, other
than aerosol paint containers and felt tip markers, that could be
used to draw, spray, paint, etch, or mark.

As incomprehensible as that may be for free men, how does the purported misdemeanor become a felony?

Lawdy, up jumped the devil... :barf: :barf:

Flyboy
August 12, 2005, 02:44 PM
We make it a crime to posess writing implements, and wonder why people are illiterate.

Wow.




(Also, I'd note that your citation is for a marker wider than 3/8 inch, and OP said 1 inch; I'd bet that the wider marker is higher offense, as 1/2 oz of marijuana vs. 1/2 pound.)

bg
August 12, 2005, 03:50 PM
I've a question. I realize this is off the wall as far as a law pertaining to
"markers", but just to be the devil's advocate, how do you who live in
other states, know you do not have a likewise law ?

Be interesting to find out. ;)

Mr. James
August 12, 2005, 05:08 PM
Well, the Commonwealth of Virginia, for one, would rather punish bad acts than bad choices in writing implements.

alpineman
August 12, 2005, 05:19 PM
Maybe I'm just a tad behind here in KY, but whether a felony or misdemeanor .... having a marker is a crime? I'd believe it in Britain, but here???

Archie
August 12, 2005, 05:48 PM
I'm not anti-police. I carry a gun and badge from a federal agency for a living. However, living here in the Los Angeles basin area, I see a fair amount of LAPD activity.

Yes, there are some decent officers. Most are serious about law enforcement and try to "do right". There are a number who have the attitude they do not enforce the law, they "are" the law. You've never seen a [movie version] small town southern sheriff who is more badge heavy and oblivious of individual rights than a 'politically correct' LAPD officer who wants to be promoted. The late "Rampart Scandal" is indicative of the rest of the department.

The kid in this case may be embellishing some of the details and covering some of his own failings, but I think there's a substantial core of authenticity in the story.

Tory
August 12, 2005, 06:02 PM
Given that it's LA we're discussing, it's a tough call....... :scrutiny:

" 594.2. (a) Every person who possesses a masonry or glass drill bit, a carbide drill bit, a glass cutter, a grinding stone, an awl, a chisel, a carbide scribe, an aerosol paint container, a felt tip marker, or any other marking substance with the intent to commit vandalism or graffiti, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

I use a felt-tip marker called - no joke - a "44 Mag," presumably because its .4" wide and about 1/4 thick. VERY handy for marking brass; I just wipe it down each row of cartridges as they sit in the ammo boxes. It will do a .45 in 1 pass.

Is that "intent to commit vandalism?" :eek:

Mongo the Mutterer
August 12, 2005, 06:11 PM
Bro in law used to live in LA. Haven't been back there in 20 years.

I made a good choice.

silverlance
August 12, 2005, 06:45 PM
to be honest, I'm not sure why packing a big marker can be a felony. but stranger things have happened here... for instance, CA bans Shuriken (ninja stars), Nunchuks (which they make fun of in "Wedding Crashers".. a CA joke), and Butterfly knives (probably because of movies like "West Side Story" and Jackie Chan movies where all the "Azn boys" are expert knife-flipping kung-fu masters).

I always thought that the 3 aforementioned were usually more dangerous to the untrained wielder than any supposed victim, but i dunno, wiser heads than mine in sacramento....

for those of you who read the knife threads, CA also bans collapsible batons (it's a FELONY, and this one Jim March has confirmed) but encourages carry of knives of pretty much any length....

as for the marker, I've been told that markers with tips that exceed 1" are considered felony items - the penal code listed earlier seems to be for ones over 3/8 inch. then again, it could be that the "felony" my kid's charged with was a fake intended to scare the kid into spilling whatever he might know about Flores gang... or make up.

he told me that on several occasions his brother (who probably is a gangster and maybe even a drug dealer, but supports Mario and has asked me and other teachers to help him keep Mario out of the same trouble) was arrested, given a court date, and then offered a chance to "talk".

when he showed up in court, nobody knew who he was - apparently the "filed charges" were bogus.

The rotten truth is, city life is saturated with rot - and the layers of corruption, resident and government alike, are so thoroughly permeated by chronic ignorance and selfishness (devil take the last man in kind of thinking) that anyone who wants to do good (cops, folks, kids) must constantly struggle against despair in the face of such overwhelming want.

People resort to crime because they are poor, they are poor because they can't find a job, they can't find a job because they aren't educated, they aren't educated because of a desperate lack of people willing to take the high road, people willing to take the high road avoid L.A. because of the corrupt system, the system is corrupt because ignorant & selfish people are attracted to the exploitable poor (and corresponding exploitable federal/state funds) like flies to dog poop.

Last school year (which for us, a 3-track school, ended a month ago) our Title 1 federal funds office could not account for nearly $400,000 out of a budget of $900,000... the intervention classes which I teach, and for which the money had been earmarked for (among other such classes), could not even make xerox copies because all the money to buy paper had mysteriously vanished.

the really sad part is, it probably wasn't even embezzled... probably just wasted on catering and other silly crap like that. bear in mind that her in L.A. most administrators have had only five years, often less, of actual teaching experience - and usually those in areas other than L.A.

don't get me wrong - there are MANY people (cops, kids, parents, even the occasional bean-counter) here trying to do the good thing, but I guess I've just been posting this so that those of you who only get the Newsweek or A Current Affair (a show which my kids are scared to watch, because the camera vans are often filming on THEIR block) version of "hispanic / black inner city life" which frequently seems to paint those folks as degenerate, stupid, drug-crazed low-lifes giving teenage birth to retarded neglected babies have some idea what it's really like - these are people who are only a few thousand dollars short of where you are morally.

but those few thousand dollars come with a crushing social system that has produced disastrous exponential long term effects on an entire demographic.

sure, shoot the drug dealers, lock up the thugs, but don't let your "victories" there blind you to the reasons why these people have come to exist in such large numbers here in the first place.

California - and LA's stupid, bull-headed single-prong attack on urban crime will never be truly effective as it merely stamps out (with collateral damage) crime while ignoring (probably because it's much harder to deal with) the conditions that produce such and indeed, often even contributes to those same conditions.

My feelings on "criminals" of late has become like that of a video clip I saw of marines firing on Iraqis charging a base gate only to save the lives of those they had shot up minutes after combat - when they are trying to kill me, I will gun them down without hesitation, but whenever possible, I will give them what aid I can.

and that, I hope, is the high road.

GT
August 13, 2005, 12:28 AM
More victims of the Socialist Great Society and the "War on Poverty"

Newsflash: People are "poor" for a reason (and it ain't cos they been kept down by the man).

Frankly, from my observations living in NYC for 20 years, I think that those folk who live in degradation actually like it that way. Try putting them in a nice apartment and see how long it takes them to trash it.

Brother is a drug dealer? Parents? Oh sorry, parent. Obviously not interested in disciplining their children (but wait until he pops some cop and the mother will be shootin her fat mouth off about he was a gooood boy and dint do nuffin).

Sounds like LAPD "pushing back".
Trouble is when everything is illegal and crime still goes on where do you go next?

Bottom line though?
If you want out you get out.
If you put up with a stinkhole for the handouts then you get what you deserve.

G

c_yeager
August 13, 2005, 06:59 AM
You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works

carefull with that idea. I have witnessed on more than one occassion a person who developes their first negative opinion about law enforcement immediatly after calling for their services. When they learn that the response time within 3 blocks of the precinct station is 2 hours, they feel a little dissapointed.

silverlance
August 13, 2005, 10:10 AM
gt, not saying that people are victims of society or other crap like that.

just saying that dismissing the poor as "liking it that way" is very convienient for people to say when they don't feel like doing anything about it.


anyway, I've blathered on enough.

Gunsnrovers
August 13, 2005, 10:15 AM
As has been mentioned many times locally here in Los Angeles, when the local population decides to put as much effort into protesting gang violence and drugs on their own streets as they do protesting the LAPD and rights for illegal aliens, maybe things will change. These problems start at home and that's the place to start fixing them.

Old Fuff
August 13, 2005, 10:18 AM
I know, from personal experience, that a lot of what Silverlance said is true, and by no means limited to L.A. or California.

If you actually live in one of these areas for awhile you will come across some real trash, but at the same time you will meet some fine people. Many of them maintain traditional famlies and at least try to take care of their kids. The core problem is that the head-of-household frequently didn't get a good education - too many of out public schools are a total mess, and try to solve problems by using the latest leftist theories while dumbing down the students. When these students leave school - graduated or not - they have no trade and no prospect of learning one. Without basic skills going on to collage and succeeding is unlikely.

So they are stuck in marginal, low paying jobs - if they can find a job at all. The consequences of this should be obvious.

MikeIsaj
August 13, 2005, 10:50 AM
so he ditches all his stuff (id, bus pass, etc).

That was the line that sold me on a credibility rating of zero. Sorry but, only a thug, wannabe thug, or plain old idiot would think of that.

California appears to have fallen off the edge of reality. They are up to their ears in problems and cannot deal effectively with any of them. Leave now before the razor wire and checkpoints go up.

armoredman
August 13, 2005, 11:09 AM
Silver lance, I salute you for your courage to try to reach young mind in that hellhole, but may I add my voice to those encouraging you to leave? Free AZ is right across the border from you, and we need good teachers, too....You could have real fun, and get a job teaching in prison - tell 'em you have prior experiance....

Crosshair
August 13, 2005, 11:14 AM
You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works

Only time the cops here respond to any call is if;

someone is bleeding on the ground.
car accident
drugs
underage drinking
revenue enhancement (Tickets)

They NEVER came to any of the calls I have placed.

Illegals living next door 25+ of them no less, had to call INS to get anything done.
Cars parked illegaly on the street so the snow plow can't get through. (Though one would think they would love the chance to write five easy tickets each costing $15.)
Neighbor playing his "ye haw" music outside at 2AM.This has happened too many times to count.
Morons playing "Garbage can pinball" Driving down the alley, knocking down all the trash cans with their car. (Usualy a junker.)

silverlance
August 14, 2005, 01:33 AM
i'd love to move AZ.

smog is horrible. ppl get lung cancer here all the time w/o smoking (see chris reeve's wife)

jobs are hard to find (or, rather, GOOD jobs as a teacher)

cost of living is SUPER HIGH (gas at 3.10/g, rent for a STUDIO is 975$)

cost of homes here start at 550k$

crime, gun laws, stupid politicians, stupid neighbors, few good women...

eh, goes on.

do let me know if there's a good place to look for a house in AZ. seriously, in 1 year i finish my debt to CA and can move... and want to.

oh, and ps:
i have ppl smoking pot next door CONSTANTLY, TONS of illegals (although to be fair most of them are decent people), 911 is always busy - and to add insult to injury parking on your own street in front of your own house on a street sweeping day results in a whopping $45 fine. parking in your own driveway, if you extend more than a foot or so into the sidewalk, results in a $75 fine.

sigh*

Byron Quick
August 14, 2005, 02:36 AM
And cops wonder why people believe everything they hear about them is true. You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works

Not all of us, friend. My home has been burglarized twice and my former business was burglarized at least ten times. Time period from 1979 to 1991.
I've never seen any sign of a serious investigation of any of these. In one, I recovered a bass guitar that was stolen and got the store to tell me who sold it to them. According to the detective, that wasn't sufficient probable cause to get a search warrant to look at the guy's house for any of the rest of the loot, including guns, or even to question him. I report theft to the police for one reason and one reason only...insurance. It's certainly not because I expect any action whatsoever from the police. From experience to date, about all I expect the police to do for me in need is to direct traffic around me in a car accident. I've had more help from complete strangers who looked like gangbangers.

And I don't hate cops. I like many of them as people. My Class III FFL is a police officer. Fine businessman. It's just been my experience, that you report a crime to them and nothing happens. Oh, wait. The local PD does send me a post card every year asking if I've recovered my pre-WWII Fabrique Nationale HiPower Serial Number 47712. Stolen in 1982. I call them up and tell them that I have not solved the crime or recovered the pistol. (All my searches at checkpoints I've set up have turned up empty. Sorry, officer. :rolleyes: )

So, please...refrain...I'm not getting what I am supposedly being taxed to pay for.

gunsmith
August 14, 2005, 03:02 AM
My brother is a cop in NY, his house was burgled...turned out it was a Detective from another city!!

Back to the thread I was stuck in the never ending BS that is NYC for a long time (just like LA bullhockey I'm sure) -I am so glad to be living here in northern Nevada.
no tolls.
theres allways a gun in my car (& now it's legal)
I can park.
Real gun shows with real guns for sale.
plenty of overtime.
mountains,lakes,desert.
I wish I had moved here ten yrs ago when I first thought of it

beerslurpy
August 14, 2005, 03:04 AM
Actually, conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony in CA, so you could conceivably arrest a group of urban youths for conspiring to paint graffitti. Sure would suck to lose the right to vote or own guns because of somethign like that.

CA penal code:
182. (a) If two or more persons conspire:
(1) To commit any crime.
(2) Falsely and maliciously to indict another for any crime, or to procure another to be charged or arrested for any crime.
(3) Falsely to move or maintain any suit, action, or proceeding.
(4) To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by any means which are in themselves criminal, or to obtain money or property by false pretenses or by false promises with fraudulent intent not to perform those promises.
(5) To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals, or to pervert or obstruct justice, or the due administration of the laws.
(6) To commit any crime against the person of the President or Vice President of the United States, the Governor of any state or territory, any United States justice or judge, or the secretary of any of the executive departments of the United States.

Fletchette
August 14, 2005, 03:23 AM
You may hate cops, but that will only last until you need to call them for their services.. Funny how that works

I was under the impression that the only responsibility cops have is to collect evidence. The courts have ruled on many occassion that the police have no obligation to protect individuals. So, the next time I need someone to collect evidence...

Citizens protect themselves. I gladly accept that responsibility. I don't hate cops, but I admit that I do find it annoying when they think that they are somehow guardians of us all.

silverlance
August 14, 2005, 04:50 AM
" To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals " -ca penal code


IN CALIFORNIA??!?! how could you possibly injure public morals around here? lol*

unless by injuring public morals you mean refuse to let your employees show up in drag... yeah...

silverlance
August 14, 2005, 04:52 AM
cops are usually great people.

i just despise and remain contemptuous of anybody who tells me that I should leave the job of defending / protecting / preventing crime to the cops when it is abundantly clear that this is something that cops simply do not have the ability to do.

cops are good folks who do what they can. however, they are not superman....

Combat-wombat
August 14, 2005, 07:33 AM
I work with teenagers.

Rule 1 : Don't trust them.
Rule 2 : They manipulate.
Rule 3 : They triangulate, and attempt to split authority figures.
Yeah, I talk with gun owners all the time...
Rule 1 : They're all obsessed.
Rule 2 : They're violent.
Rule 3 : They're racist.

See the similarity?

And also, who says manipulating and splitting authority figures is a bad thing? Contempt for authority is a trait of all true patriots.

280PLUS
August 14, 2005, 08:06 AM
I have a manipulative little teen of my own. It's AMAZING the cover stories she can come up with at the drop of a hat.

Anyhow my question is: If possessing a 1" marker is a FELONY in the state of Ka (I'm not saying I agree with that law) why was the kid in possession of said marker? I would consider that evidence of a little duplicity going on there.

If I had my druthers I'd make marker possession a misdemeanor and make the little buggers do community service cleaning up some graffitti for many hours.

Kids have no concept of what a felony conviction means. I think it's irresposible of Ka to set up it's teens for felony conviction which, while it doesn't affect them now, will CERTAINLY do so as they get older and as we all know, then it's too late. Eventually Ka will have a subpopulation of people who lost the right to vote before they ever even had it and I don't see that as a positive result of trying to stop graffitti.

Kudos on taking and sticking with what sounds like a very difficult teaching position, my hat goes off to you!

:)

I had an afterthought...I don't know exactly what you teach but a nice classroom assignment might be to examine the marker law presenting all the reasons they can for why it is an unfair law and actually have them take the steps necessary to try and get it changed. It would be a great exercise in community participation as well as help them understand that no law is set in stone.

Just an idea. I used to teach ADULTS (can be WAY WORSE than kids) so I have a few other ideas running through my head if you'd like to PM me over them.

Old Fuff
August 14, 2005, 10:05 AM
280PLUS:

It was established in earlier posts that the kid had an after-school job that involved marking cartons and boxes, and therefore he needed the marker. Hopefully this will come out if any hearings or trials are held.

I don't know if the kid, and/or Silverlance are telling the truth or not. But I have been an observer in other instances (not in L.A.) where similar things have happened. Therefor I consider that it is quite possible that the incident could have happened, and there are elements in the story that make me think it might have been as related.

Hopefully my position will not be seen as cop-bashing. I have worked with law enforcement officers at all levels for most of my adult life. I still count many of them as friends, and I understand how dificult and frustrating their jobs can be.

But at the same time my past experience tells me that like any other profession, there are some bad apples in the barrel.

280PLUS
August 14, 2005, 11:28 AM
oops,

Missed that. I read it yesterday and hadn't gone back to reread till now. I guess I also forgot how the police roughed him up too and that was the original point of the thread. Yes there are bad apples no matter where you look. I have another thought but no time now. more later...

Oleg Volk
August 14, 2005, 11:37 AM
Anyhow my question is: If possessing a 1" marker is a FELONY in the state of Ka (I'm not saying I agree with that law) why was the kid in possession of said marker? I would consider that evidence of a little duplicity going on there.


Probably because neither that kid, nor you and I, even know what constitutes a felony today. I am still unsure, even after the help from two attroneys, if I had committed felonies in the past or not. We simply can't figure out the meaning of some laws. And that after taking an active interest in the matter!

If a person moves to live in CA and brings a lawnmower along, would they have to check if that model of lawnmower is prohibited by the state environmental regulations? Would violating those be a felony? WOuld it even occur to one to check?

silverlance
August 14, 2005, 11:52 AM
that's a really good idea! here one of the CA-approved teaching standards for eng. is "technical literature" - which means things like instruciton manuals, medicine bottles ... and penal codes would certainly fall under that one as well as "research methods".

2 things:

1. kids here don't know everything about the law, but they do know quite a bit - lots of family members in jail, etc. they do, however, often have a misrepresented or misinformed version of the law. and if they're illegal they usually choose to pay any fine rather than show up in court, even if innocent - which I'm sure the city knows and profits nicely from (dont know what to think about -that-).

2. the consequences of poor reading skills, esp. in tech. lit (which I first had laughed at), can be disastrous. i've had kids try to drink rubbing alcohol that I had in the classroom, use saline solution directly in their eyes (and lemon juice, too), take asprin in conjunction with EVERYTHING & without counting how many they've taken already in a day, and share prescription medicine.

thanks for all the support from ppl about where i teach, but i don't think i'm doing such a big service - as a matter of fact I'm still get the hang of the job. to tell the truth it's not as bad as the media makes it sound - for the most 90% of the part all the kids are VERY respectful, at least those kids with parents, but it's just the 10% (that USUALLY have had miserable parent time all their lives) that do all the rotten low-life things. again, same goes for cops or any other profession.

heh, one teacher last thursday fell asleep in her classroom (!!) and while she was out one of the kids stole her SHOES. she never got them back and had to go to her car barefoot, much to the amusement of everybody watching LoL*

one more thing - i'm in St.Helens right now and it's really strange to me - I've been here 2 days and I haven't seen a SINGLE cop!!! Not one! and I've driven well over 80 miles all over portland - trojan and back...

silverlance
August 14, 2005, 11:57 AM
there really are lawnmower laws. not sure what those are, but in L.A. City operation of a leafblower before 8am is an expensive offense ($250 fine).

and then there are the well-meaning but stupid "protect the kids" laws - ie., if a cop or neighbor sees your kid running said lawnmower you might find social services at your door asking why you have been "dangerously neglecting" and "abusing" your child. unless of course your "kid" looks like some of those in my classroom - 14 years old and six feet 2 @ 167 lbs.

El Rojo
August 14, 2005, 01:02 PM
heh, one teacher last thursday fell asleep in her classroom (!!) and while she was out one of the kids stole her SHOES. she never got them back and had to go to her car barefoot, much to the amusement of everybody watching LoL*It really amazes me some of the teachers they find around here. I am up here in Bakersfield and we had a teacher at another continuation school showing movies all the time while she cruised on her computer. Well one fine movie day two of the kids were feeling amorous and one manually stimulated the other in class!!! The teacher only found out about it when a bunch of the kids wanted to go home because they were grossed out. I would feel lower than low if I ever had to live in the disgrace of falling asleep and losing my shoes or having students perform heavy petting in my classroom while I showed a movie and sat on my computer.

That is why I think all public school teachers should have to teach in prison first. Nothing would be better than getting teachers used to lying, cheating, theiving, and manipulative students quicker than working in prison. Then when they get out and go work with students, they will be prepared. Even if they work in a good district, they will still have their act together. If teaching just paid better in prison, I would have stayed there, no question.

280PLUS
August 14, 2005, 02:23 PM
What it seems to me is maybe a "conspiracy" for lack of a better word by the haves against the have nots in terms of eliminating them from ever being able to join the voter base. If you make owning a marker a felony knowing the urban have nots are most likely the ones to possess them, isn't that stacking the deck against them? Especially if the "perpetrators" don't know what it means to be convicted of a felony. This way the haves will never have to worry about the have nots interfering in their legislative process and they'll be free to contort it to their own likings.

I can't believe our forefathers felt something like possession and misuse of a marker to be so heinous a crime as to revoke the rights of citizenship. Maybe a "3 strikes your out" approach but not the first time around.

I'd say :"Well, you have your choice, juvey hall or 50 hours cleaning up graffitti, take your pick." At least give them 1/2 a chance to see the errors of their ways and reform before outcasting them forever.

If the kid truly didn't know possession of a marker was a felony then I'd say he has a leg to stand on. If he DID know and still possessed one then he is at fault regardless of WHERE he got it. I get the impression that it may be a teen status symbol to be in possession of a marker to demonstrate a level of "coolness" or contempt for authority one might desire to maintain in their strange little world. It's all about who's "cool" and who's not in their world. I see it every day... :rolleyes:

Mongo the Mutterer
August 14, 2005, 04:41 PM
Inquiring minds want to know, if

One

so he ditches all his stuff (id, bus pass, etc)

Why is he charged with

possession of a marker over 1 inch :confused:

If he ditched all his stuff, WHY NOT THE MARKER?

Just a smell test question to add to the reek of the punk's original story.

c_yeager
August 15, 2005, 02:49 AM
If he ditched all his stuff, WHY NOT THE MARKER?

Maybe the kid was only ditching items that he felt could get him in trouble. Perhaps it never occured to him that having a pen in his pocket was a crime, it sure as heck never occured to me.

MAUSER88
August 15, 2005, 12:37 PM
This is all a problem because of overpopulation. When O when will we finally close the borders!! :cuss:

silverlance
August 15, 2005, 06:56 PM
when american companies start hiring americans at american wages & benefits instead of opting for cheap illegal import labor.

or

when all the remaining manual labor jobs eventally go out of country, and there is no longer any point for illegals to come here without an education.

carebear
August 15, 2005, 07:05 PM
Just what is an "American" wage?

Jobs pay what the job is worth to the employer and employee.

If you the employer can get (to you) proportionately equivilent work for less payroll out, it'd be the height of foolishness to pay more. To be forced to pay more (if the employee is legal to employ) would be theft from you.

If a worker feels they are not paid enough and someone else will take the job for less, that's their problem.

Illegal immigration must be curbed and illegals should not be employed but, that aside, digging ditches is never going to pay a rate that will lure anyone, "American" or otherwise, who is willing and able to do something more lucrative.

ACORN
August 15, 2005, 07:15 PM
What is up with the marker? You can get a felony over a marker?

Yeah the next thing you know they'll be banning coffee cans. :evil:

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