Chips track license plates


PDA






onerifle
August 12, 2005, 04:27 PM
Here's my contribution to "good news for the weekend".

Ummm...NOT. :fire: :cuss:

This REALLY sucks.



Wireless World: Chips track license plates

http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20050812-082018-4885r.htm

By Gene J. Koprowski
Published 8/12/2005 10:05 AM


CHICAGO, Aug. 12 (UPI) -- A controversial plan to embed radio frequency identification chips in license plates in the United Kingdom also may be coming to the United States, experts told UPI's Wireless World.

The so-called e-Plate, developed by the British firm Hills Numberplates, is a license plate that also transmits a vehicle's unique identification via encryption that can be read by a small detector, whose output can be used locally or communicated to a distant host.

"RFID is all the rage these days," said Bradley Gross, chairman of Becker & Poliakoff, a law firm in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla., "but my fear is that this use of the technology is tracking at its worst."

The reason for the concern in the legal and privacy-rights communities is that e-plates may expand the ability of police to track individuals by the movement of their vehicles.

A single RFID reader can identify dozens of vehicles fitted with e-plates moving at any speed at a distance of about 100 yards. The e-plate looks just like a standard plate, but it contains an embedded chip that cannot be seen or removed. It is self-powered with a battery life of up to 10 years.

"Police will be able to track your every move when you drive," said Liz McIntyre, an RFID expert and author of the forthcoming book, "Spychips: How Major Corporations and the Government Plan to Track Your Every Move With RFID" (Nelson Current, October 2005). "What if they put these readers at a mosque? They could tell who was inside at a worship service by which cars were in the parking lot."

Indeed, the makers of the technology boast that the e-plates can furnish access control, automated tolling, asset tracking, traffic-flow monitoring and vehicle crime and "non-compliance." The chips can be outfitted with 128 bit encryption to prevent hacking.

The problem is people other than the vehicle's owner quite often are at the wheel.

"Will this, ultimately, stop terrorism?" Gross asked. "The occupants of cars change continuously. Terrorists can steal cars."

Similar technology already has been used in the United States, experts said.

"The technology side of this is readily available, as it is used in the high-frequency battery-powered transmitters in the toll road systems like Fastrak," said attorney Dave Abel, with the international law firm Squire, Sanders & Dempsey LLP, who was an engineer before coming to the bar. "To use the toll road, a user signs up -- providing name, address, billing info, et cetera, which is stored in a database. Each time they drive past the reader station they are billed or a credit is deducted from an account."

Security access points could justify the expense, but placing them even at key intersections may not be very practical, according to lawyers at Pittiglio, Rabin, Todd & McGrath in Costa Mesa, Calif., a spokeswoman said.

The cost of roadside readers is significant -- although the price per chip is estimated to be only 20 cents.

Some experts said governments already are using the chips embedded in tollway access cards without heed to privacy rights. In Texas, for example, tollway authorities have been "making printouts of the records of every time you pass through a toll booth, what time you passed through," McIntyre said. "The government hasn't established a privacy policy for this, and people are not being informed that they are doing this. This is an instance of Big Brother on the highway."

--

Gene Koprowski is a 2005 Lilly Endowment Award Winner for his columns for United Press International. He covers networking and telecommunications for UPI Science News. E-mail:sciencemail@upi.com
Copyright 2001-2005 United Press International

If you enjoyed reading about "Chips track license plates" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Greg L
August 12, 2005, 04:30 PM
Metal plates?

Toss them in the oven for a couple of hours.

:fire: :cuss:

Tropical Z
August 12, 2005, 04:38 PM
I wonder if they could be defeated by strong magnets?

Car Knocker
August 12, 2005, 04:39 PM
I believe a license plate will fit in my microwave quite handily.

brian roberts
August 12, 2005, 04:40 PM
a GOOD idea......hmmmmmm..... :uhoh: how about the MICROWAVEoven.......?? :cool:

R.H. Lee
August 12, 2005, 04:40 PM
Exactly. Disable it and go on with your life.

Marnoot
August 12, 2005, 04:43 PM
Microwave oven would zap it within a few seconds. I'm sure they'd try to make it illegal to "tamper" with them, though.

Zundfolge
August 12, 2005, 04:47 PM
I'm sure they'd try to make it illegal to "tamper" with them, though.
So they going to punish you if it "malfunctions"?

They have to prove tampering ;)

lucky_fool
August 12, 2005, 04:48 PM
Terrorists can steal cars

To heck with that, terrorists can steal license plates. It'd be a lot easier to get the plates off a car in the long-term parking lot of an airport than it would be to swipe the whole car.

R.H. Lee
August 12, 2005, 04:59 PM
So they going to punish you if it "malfunctions"?

They have to prove tampering They should be put on notice that there is widespread, willful destruction of the devices. Let 'em lock us all up, if they can.

thorn726
August 12, 2005, 05:25 PM
So they going to punish you if it "malfunctions"?

They have to prove tampering
They should be put on notice that there is widespread, willful destruction of the devices. Let 'em lock us all up, if they can.

there you go.

plenty of ways to disable it, and well, it wasnt our fault.

come and get all of us.

the real pain is where will all the $$ come from

bg
August 12, 2005, 05:25 PM
My plate has been known to fall off my truck once in a while. I have to
take a "hammer" and straighten it out........ :D

hkOrion
August 12, 2005, 06:45 PM
So they going to punish you if it "malfunctions"?

They have to prove tampering
They should be put on notice that there is widespread, willful destruction of the devices. Let 'em lock us all up, if they can.

They won't have to - one, two high profile cases where someone gets felony charges for tampering and people will fall in line. Just like the music pirating cases. They'll go after people who can't afford to defend themselves and scare the rest of the population into submission.

Standing Wolf
August 12, 2005, 06:57 PM
Will this, ultimately, stop terrorism?

Yeah, and it'll cure baldness, obesity, and cancer, too. No doubt about it.

hifi
August 12, 2005, 08:16 PM
More incrementalism in our never ending march towards the police state and massive government tracking, spying and taxation of the citizenry. Some will 'resist', but most people will not know or care.

Microwave your plate. Sure, that will make a difference... :rolleyes:

By the way, we're all being tracked through our cellphones already you know. How many of you are going to microwave your cellphone? In fact cell phone companies will not even activate old phones that don't have a GPS chip in them anymore. 'By law'.

The water in the pot just rose another degree. The frog doesn't notice.

Flyboy
August 12, 2005, 08:34 PM
And to think that people who opposed the very idea of license plates were called crazy when they expressed concern that the police would start checking plates as a matter of routine.

No, there's no slippery slope here.

Remington788
August 12, 2005, 09:08 PM
By the way, we're all being tracked through our cellphones already you know. How many of you are going to microwave your cellphone? In fact cell phone companies will not even activate old phones that don't have a GPS chip in them anymore

Thats why I still have my old non-GPS phone and will NOT get a new one.

As for the license plate chip, just have some people make some really strong electro-magnets and just fry the chips at your local wal-mart, k-mart or some other parking lot.

KriegHund
August 12, 2005, 09:28 PM
i dont see how it even matters.

Matters as in it wont stop srime and terrorism, and it wont affect us aside from extra cost.

That said it bugs the heck out of me that they are considering this.

captain obvious
August 12, 2005, 10:27 PM
Hey Remmington - what model phone do you have?

I just stopped using them entirely, cause of that, the general PITA factor, and I got tired of having to replace them when they eventually broke or were somehow destroyed.

hillbilly
August 12, 2005, 11:54 PM
I don't have a cell phone.

hillbilly

Zundfolge
August 13, 2005, 12:38 AM
Thats why I still have my old non-GPS phone and will NOT get a new one.

They don't need a "GPS Chip" in your phone to track you (in fact few phones have bulit in GPS)

They can track you by triangulating the signal to 3 cell towers.

dustind
August 13, 2005, 01:14 AM
I believe a license plate will fit in my microwave quite handily. Any metal in a microwave will cause sparks and flames, do not try this at (or atleast inside of) home.

The thought that RFID license plates would affect terrorists or criminals is just absurd.

DRZinn
August 15, 2005, 02:01 AM
In fact cell phone companies will not even activate old phones that don't have a GPS chip in them anymore. 'By law'.Ummm... I don't think that's true. Got a source?

rick_reno
August 15, 2005, 02:30 AM
Watch out for a "terrorist attack" using an automobile. That'll likely precede the implementation of this great scheme. Then, after they find that tracking license plates isn't working - they'll chip us.

brickeyee
August 15, 2005, 10:59 AM
The phase triangulation method for locating phones was pretty much of a bust. There is simply to much multipath scattering in urban areas for the method to produce the desired results, and in m,any rural areas you may not be within range of enough towers (2 min, 3 is better) to even get a fix.
Most of the newer phones have enough GPS to report the location for 911 service. A number of companies have even been using them to monitor outside workers.

Marnoot
August 15, 2005, 11:08 AM
Any metal in a microwave will cause sparks and flames, do not try this at (or atleast inside of) home. Actually metal can be safely microwaved under certain condititions. The sparking is usually caused when parts of the metal stick up in such a way as to create an path for an arc (places where the metal is folded/bent/whatever close enough such that the air-gap is an insufficient insulator). Crumpled foil being the prime example. A flat/smooth piece of metal would not arc. Our old microwave had a metal rack in it, in fact. You'll also find the inside walls of the microwave in which the food is placed to be made of metal. The only potential for damage comes from metals shaped such that they will spark, and metals shaped/positioned such that they reflect all the energy back through the grating from which the microwaves emanated, possibly getting back to the magnatron electronics. I would have no qualms nuking a license plate for 10 seconds or so.

Edited to add: The circuits within the RFID would arc, briefly, but that's the point of putting the thing in the microwave.

stevelyn
August 15, 2005, 11:15 AM
A Degausser would probably put it out of commission too.

Marnoot
August 15, 2005, 11:23 AM
A Degausser would probably put it out of commission too. I'm not sure a magnetic field would destroy it. But then, it's been a while since I've read up on the little things. IIRC, which I may not, the RFIDs are activated and powered by radio waves emanated from the receiver. The radio waves activate and power the RFID to transmit it's own radio signal with the embedded information programmed into it. The information is stored in a non-volatile memory of some sort. So I don't think that it would react to a magnetic field in the same way a floppy disk would. Set me straight if I'm wrong! :)

Zach S
August 15, 2005, 11:50 AM
I work in sheetmetal, maybe I could get a side-business going...

71Commander
August 15, 2005, 11:58 AM
Ummm... I don't think that's true. Got a source?

None off hand but do recall this was a Clinton special. The pretense was that if you had a debilitating accident/injury and couldn't speak, while out and needed to call for assistance, the authorities could find you by your cell phone GPS system embeded into it.

Werewolf
August 15, 2005, 12:58 PM
Chip...
...Chip...
......Chip...

And George Orwell's prophetic vision of the future grows ever more real! :banghead:

......Chip...
...Chip...
Chip...

Double Maduro
August 15, 2005, 01:15 PM
In fact cell phone companies will not even activate old phones that don't have a GPS chip in them anymore. 'By law'.

Actually there is a federal law that you do not need a plan for your cell phone.

You can make 911 and credit card calls from any of them, even without a "PLAN". This is why battered womens shelters want you to donate used and deactivated cell phones. They give them to the women to use in emergencies.

If you don't want to be tracked by your cell phone, turn it off when not using it and for some of the new ones you should remove the battery.


DM

Rabid Rabbit
August 15, 2005, 01:23 PM
128 bit encryption? Yeah that will keep a hacker busy for about 5 minutes. I suspect that the number of hacked plates will quickly bring the demise of this stupid program.

How could that pinhead possibly compare this to paying the toll via smart pass or the other toll system. The toll road can't track my where abouts out side of the toll road and all it does is say when I got on and when I got off the road.

Car Knocker
August 15, 2005, 03:15 PM
Any metal in a microwave will cause sparks and flames, do not try this at (or atleast inside of) home.

Actually, the manual for my Sharp microwave states that metal is allowed in this oven as long as it has smooth, rounded edges. A sharp edge will form a riser and cause sparking. I believe a license plate would be safe for the short period of time it would take to fry the chip.

Can'thavenuthingood
August 15, 2005, 08:00 PM
The actual fix for these things is to stop it at the politician level, the point of legislation. Don't allow those potlickers to enact the legislation that allows the bureaucrats to make up adminstrative law utilizing RFID.

Nosy government figuring out ways to control the populace and enhance revenues through regulations, code enforcement and law. Kingdoms are being built within each department, agency, administration and shop.

Each individual is just doing their job. We need to stop expanding their job requirements since each additional tasking adds another employee that becomes a supervisor.

I'm running out of money to give to the government and I have no where else to go.

I'm cornered.

Vick

Marshall
August 15, 2005, 09:00 PM
I wonder if this would screw up the chip sending signal just enough?

Veil, you apply it on your headlights and liscence plate (http://www.laserveil.com/)

Car Knocker
August 15, 2005, 09:21 PM
Big difference between a beam of coherent light (laser) and a radio signal (RFID).

dustind
August 16, 2005, 01:26 AM
Maybe the RFID chips have temerature limits that are higher or lower than the paint used on the license plate.

Car Knocker
August 16, 2005, 10:50 AM
dustind,

I don't quite understand your comment. Could you please expand on it?

Nick1911
August 16, 2005, 11:02 AM
I don't quite understand your comment. Could you please expand on it?

I think dustind is saying that maybe the paint on the plate would melt (making it useless) before the RFID tag dies. However microwave radiation should do the trick by minimizing heating while still killing microcirciuts.

one-shot-one
August 16, 2005, 12:35 PM
We get to pay for it in higher lic. fees.
my state went to "sticker" tags right above the inspection sticker
to (in their words) reduce costs and thieft.
my have reduced their costs but my cost is still steadily going up.
what would a direct short from say a battery charger do to and imbedded chip?

BryanP
August 16, 2005, 12:42 PM
128 bit encryption? Yeah that will keep a hacker busy for about 5 minutes.

It depends entirely on how it's implemented. Breaking a properly implemented 128 bit encryption key is non-trivial.

Nick1911
August 16, 2005, 01:38 PM
It depends entirely on how it's implemented. Breaking a properly implemented 128 bit encryption key is non-trivial.

But, you do have all the time in the world to work on it... and no lack of source data.

Sleeping Dog
August 16, 2005, 02:21 PM
We have developed an anti-laser stealth coating that greatly reduces the ability of police laser (LIDAR) guns to obtain your speed

"Ghost shirt" - a blessed garment of cotton that will stop the army's bullets. Or maybe not. :eek:

Regards.

If you enjoyed reading about "Chips track license plates" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!