Hb 1311 (nc)


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NCGUN
August 12, 2005, 08:40 PM
HB 1311 left the Senate today by a 43 Yay and 4 Na vote. However, the Bill now goes to the Governor as a MAY ISSUE Bill intead of a SHALL ISSUE as http://www.grnc.org originally wrote the Bill. This of course now allows activist Sheriffs in NC to put Domestic Violence Victims in CONTINUED Harms way.

More info at http://www.ncgun.com/hb_1311

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Coronach
August 12, 2005, 09:05 PM
There's no easy answer to one aspect of this:

Many DV victims are panicked at the thought of their ex doing something to them (usually it's a valid fear), and are looking for any type of security they can get. The problem is that many (by no means all) do not have the proper mindset for, let alone training in, the usage of a weapon. Yes, yes, this is the same Anti line used to object to CCW permits in general, but consider one thing; a CCW applicant has self-selected him/herself for the CCW license because he/she has an interest in the usage of deadly force for self defense. In the case of a DV victim, this is less likely to be a calm, rational decision made before a threat has materialized, and more likely to be one made out of fear.

This may or may not be a valid reason for opposing this bill (the RKBA advocate in me says it is not), but it remains an uncomfortable fact. I have, personally, seen a lot of battered wives say "I need to get a gun, he's gonna kill me" and admit freely that they know nothing about self-defense laws, to say nothing of sound tactics or mindset. When the threat is looming is not the appropriate time to be preparing for a fight- this is a decision that should have (and in the case of the CCW permit holder, has) been made a long time beforehand.

Mike

NCGUN
August 12, 2005, 10:29 PM
Coronach stated:
Many DV victims are panicked at the thought of their ex doing something to them (usually it's a valid fear), and are looking for any type of security they can get. The problem is that many (by no means all) do not have the proper mindset for, let alone training in, the usage of a weapon

HB 1311 simply MADE a sheriff give a woman who wanted one (ie. mind-set ) an emergency permit. Now, I agree that some women who don't have the mindset will still take the time to apply to the Sheriff and get the training in 14 days per HB 1311 amendments, then will choke when faced with a situation. But, whats the alternative? This scenario of choking, or not realizing the consquences until it's too late goes for any of us really. But, your right, this is a tough call and I think basically the bill was meant for women who knew they wanted one, took the time to plan/train, and prepared. Nonetheless, NCGUN has an obligation to let gun owners know of gun bills coming thru the NCGA, and thats what I was doing.

Michael

RoyG
August 13, 2005, 12:15 AM
Michael,

Thanks for the update.

NCGUN
August 13, 2005, 02:45 AM
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2005/Bills/Senate/HTML/S733v1.html

Has some significant gun related stuff although I can't disagree with a gang reduction bill. But look how easy it is to become a gand in NC if this passes.

Coronach
August 13, 2005, 07:40 AM
My point is that just because you want one when the chips are down does not mean that you necessarily have the right mindset, and certainly not necessarily the right skill set. If they had the right mindset, they would probably have had a CCW permit from the start.

Heck, to be brutally honest, if they had the right mindset, they would not be in this bind in the first place. And this goes for guys as well as women (though most of the time you need to step outside of the DV arena, at least the heterosexual one, and into the simple/agg assault scenarios to see it).

Scared sheep want protection. Usually they just want a sheepdog. Sometimes, usually when there is no sheepdog available, they want fangs, too. The problem is that putting fangs on a sheep doesn't make it a sheepdog. This scenario is by no means limited to DV cases. Cops see it every day. It is why cops usually refuse to recommend CCW/deadly force as defensive options, because they (and we) know that this is a serious life decision that must be made rationally by the individual. A simple "go get a gun" won't cover it.

Again, I'm not saying that denying the shall-issue bill is a good idea. But we should admit that there is a legit concern. That said, I think that the blood has failed to run in the streets in other states with such provisions.

Mike

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