[Third_Rail]

I would love to know what the absolute strongest man-portable single-shot action is. To put this in perspective, this is for a future 4 bore rifle, so it'll have to be quite strong.

Sources, links, anything would be great. :)

[Gordon]

McMillan Bros. :)

[Third_Rail]

Link?

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the webpage.


Doesn't say anything about custom actions over 50BMG, though...

[gbran]

Black powder I hope?

[Crosshair]

Kind of related, Can a Thompson Encore take any of these rounds??

300 Ultra Mag
338 Ultra Mag
510 Whisper
50 Peacekeeper
50 BMG

I don't see any custom barrels for the TE in these rounds.

[Third_Rail]

Crosshair, look at SSK Industries (http://sskindustries.com/). They make custom barrels for many, many calibers.


gbran, nope. Slow burning smokeless, made for 20mm cannons (that's pretty much what a 4bore is!) That's why I need a strong action - the barrel will have a 2"OD out of chromemoly steel, heat-treated and all. 1/2" of steel on either side makes me comfortable for the barrel, but the pressure directed backwards will be enormous.

[boofus]

Wouldn't a muzzleloader have the strongest 'action'? There are no moving parts. :D

[Third_Rail]

To be simply technical, probably.

For my purposes, no. :neener:

[Jeff Timm]

Why would anyone want a 4-bore rifle? Other than a few masochistic Brits back in the 19th Century, most people agree the 8 bore was the practical max for black powder loads.

I remember reading tales of the African explorers, including one bloke who needed a gun bearer to go after the 4 bore after he fired it, as it knocked him on his arse and went flying behind him. I believe the story was he fired it thrice. (Britspeak for 3 times).

But, if you insist, perhaps the action of a WWII surplus 37mm Anti-tank gun could be adapted?

Geoff
Who in his old age has a 20 gauge instead of a 12.
Who also suggests you put your brain care specialist on DANGER MONEY! Ooops stuck in Britspeak mode. Make that "you gonna hafta give your head shrinker combat pay!" :what:

[Third_Rail]

Jeff Timm, why would anyone want a 50BMG? Or a 45/70?


Because I can.


As for adapting an action... maybe if I see pictures/machine drawings. I'll be either making this myself or having it made.

[TMM]

i'm wondering: 4-bore means 4 gauge?

besides for the "because i can" reason, why are you building this? is this a muzzleloader? because i've never heard of 4 gauge shotshells...

~TMM

[Medusa]

Single shot? Maybe 203mm out of artillery? :D

[Third_Rail]

Rifle, not a shotgun. 4 bore is 1.053 inches, but I'm having a .95" bored barrel made.

I'll be making my own cartridges, as well. Custom made brass, bullet molds, etc.


Well, soon I won't be able to own a 50BMG here in MA, but 4 bores are "sporting" firearms. Go figure.

[Gordon]

The McMillan action accepts the 14.5mm soviet round. It prolly would accept the 20mm Solothurn (but I haven't tried it.) by opening the bolt head/extractor. The 14.5mm is prolly NOT a destructive device. The 20mm IS a DD. If you rifle that 4 bore and use a 'fixed' cartridge of modern design it is also a DD. I used to be partners in a 50 mm Krupp cannon, antique but BATF eventually told us to quit seating the shell in the case. We sold it for $$$$$ as it was a money pit anyway! :rolleyes:

[TMM]

Rifle, not a shotgun. 4 bore is 1.053 inches, but I'm having a .95" bored barrel made.

why make is smaller?

and what are you putting on as a recoil softener? perhaps you should snatch a compensator from military artillery that's as big as a dinner plate along with a big soft rubber recoil pad...

~TMM

[Crosshair]

Third_Rail

Ya, I should ask them about a TE barrel in one of their rounds. I want to find the parent case for their rounds and be sure that brass will be available.

[Third_Rail]

TMM, smaller because that's what Krieger can make me. As for recoil, this should be about 50 lbs. Recoil won't be a problem.

[PvtPyle]

The Russian 14.5mm PTR anti tank rifle. It shoots a 1080gr slug at about 3100fps. Recoil is something like 130ft lbs and max effective is over 5000m according to the military books I found it in. If I could find some brass, I would build one up on the anti-aircraft barrel I bought. Just because it is BIG!

And yes, the 14.5 is a DD since most rounds are API, APIT, APHE and it has a bore diameter over .50inches. I would make my rounds out of milled bar stock and try to get it accepted as a LOOOONG range target rifle.

[Third_Rail]

My projectiles would be lead, unjacketed.


If this is a DD, I may not bother with it, though I'll write to the ATF for an opinion first.

[Lucky]

How is bore measured? Does it mean the same a gauge, so you will be firing 1/4 pound projectiles?

[PvtPyle]

They have already given an opinion on several 14.5 guns. The PTRDs that are on the books are registered as DD's. I am hoping to get around that by making solid slugs. But if they say it is a DD, I will be a DD manufacturer by then so it wont matter. Then it is a simple $200 transfer tax.

Getting the original case or brass cases for a bolt gun will be the tough part.

[Third_Rail]

I'm not making a 14.5mm. I don't know where that came from.

I'm looking to make a 4bore (which means 1/4lb).

[PvtPyle]

It came from me mis-reading your post. If that is the case, you are in luck. The ATF says the 4 bores are normal rifles as they have been used for hunting big game only for the last 100 years or so.

Go for it and post pics when you are done!

[Jim K]

Sorry, any modern cartridge gun with a bore over .50 caliber is a "destructive device" under Federal law (National Firearms Act).

The law includes in its definition of a destructive device, "... any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes..."

However, if considering making one-of-a-kind for your own use only, this might be of interest. But note you have to go through BATFE:

"179.24 Destructive device determination.
The Director shall determine in accordance with 26 U.S.C. 5845(f), whether a device is excluded from the definition of a destructive device. A person who desires to obtain a determination under that provision of law for any device which he believes is not likely to be used as a weapon shall submit a written request, in triplicate, for a ruling thereon to the Director. Each such request shall be executed under the penalties of perjury and contain a complete and accurate description of the device, the name and address of the manufacturer or importer thereof, the purpose of and use for which it is intended, and such photographs, diagrams, or drawings as may be necessary to enable the Director to make his determination. The Director may require the submission to him, of a sample of such device for examination and evaluation. If the submission of such device is impracticable, the person requesting the ruling shall so advise the Director and designate the place where the device will be available for examination and evaluation."

HTH

Jim

[PvtPyle]

Note the part about sporting purposes. If it can be justified as a hunting weapons (or in my case) a long range competition rifle that is single shot ot break open then you might get it thru and approved.

[Sunray]

"...Because I can..." Well said, but "Because I want one." will do too. I suspect you don't need a super strong action. 4 bores were BP. Great big buggers, but still BP. Low pressures. I'd be turning the cases on a lathe. Be cheaper than having them drawn like regular cases. It'd also let you use regular primers and no dies required.
A PZB anti-tank rifle might do for the action if you can find one. It's original cartridge is looks like a 6 oz. glass Coke bottle(if you're old enough to remember them) with an 8mm bullet, so the chamber area should be big enough to take a bigger barrel. http://www.geocities.com/Augusta/8172/panzerfaust6.htm
"...How is bore measured? Does it mean the same a gauge..." Yep. 'Bore' is the Brit term for guage. And yes, they'd be 1/4 lb(4 ounces. 1750 grains) lead balls.

[Mike Hull]

i'm wondering: 4-bore means 4 gauge?


Yes!

Here's a site of similar interest.

http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/firearms/4bore_part01_01.htm

[Third_Rail]

Sunray, I'd be using smokeless, so I do actually need a pretty strong action.