C&R ffl procedures...too much


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somoss
August 14, 2005, 01:08 AM
:confused: i sent in my application for my C&R ffl about 3 weeks ago so i may have it soon (hopefully). i have been checking out some links of dealers of CR guns and have made a list of what I want. then yesterday i saw a post by a fellow marylander who had a C&R ffl but some of the online dealers of these guns would not sent him the guns because he was in md.
anyone know what he is talking about? is it a policy at some sites or law?
i never had any money for guns of anykind and after i graduated college (pharmacist) and started working the first thing i did was to start looking for guns.
:cuss: was it always so complicated to buy weapons?
i am a sane, law abiding human, living in the most free country in the world and i cant buy a 50year old relic even though i am licensed to do so buy the federal govt.
i worked hard to be an american............i work hard period.........it should not be this hard to put little holes in paper targets inside of a concrete building. god fordbig i think about trying to shoot my gun on my own property in this state for any reason. :fire:
okay time to cool down. :banghead:

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Beren
August 14, 2005, 09:30 AM
Some of the guns are illegal in your state. That isn't the fault of the distributor or the federal government. Campgin to have the laws changed, or move to a state which exhibits better respect for your feedoms, like Pennsylvania or Virginia.

You'll like your C&R. If nothing else, you can get nice discounts on accessories and supplies.

Rabid Rabbit
August 14, 2005, 09:55 AM
I think I know the thread you're talking about. One of the C&R companies would not ship a C&R pistol to MD because of the one handgun per month law and the company because they don't know how many other handguns he purchased that month. I believe he resolved the problem by sending the supplier a copy of his "collector status" from the MD State Police that allows him to buy multiple handguns per month.

If you want the collector status just stop by your local gun shop or they may have it on-line and fill it out. Its just one page, 10 minutes and 20 days later you can buy multiple handguns per month. Oh the privileges we are afforded in the great nanny state of Maryland.

JBP
August 14, 2005, 11:42 AM
As far as I know the only major C&R dealer that will not ship to a C&R FFL in Maryland is Century Arms. It's hard to keep track of all of our gun laws (handgun roster, shell casing law, external lock law, and internal lock law) with each one having different effective dates. Send your C&R to Empirre Arms (http://www.empirearms.com/) and sign up for their email alert. They are a bit higher than some of the other delasers but they have quality firearms.

Lennyjoe
August 14, 2005, 12:12 PM
On a good note, just think of the money you will save from www.midwayusa.com and www.brownells.com on gear and accessories. Well worth the $30 you paid for the C&R license. ;)

Beren
August 14, 2005, 01:01 PM
Are there any other online companies like Midwayusa and Brownells that honor C&R holders? Or are those two it as far as one-stop online stores for C&R holders?

anapex
August 14, 2005, 06:42 PM
Century will ship to MD, both pistols and rifles unless they've changed in the year since I've ordered from them. AIM will not ship ANY pistol to an 01 or 03. Most of this is site policy because of all the laws MD has, a lot of places just don't want to try and understand them so they just won't ship.

Now whether getting a C&R handgun shipped in to MD is legal or not is another thing. Do a search here on it and you'll find a lot of threads of Harry Tuttle and I going back and forth about it (good arguments on both sides) and then make your own decision about it.

Also if you could point me to the thread you were reading. I must have missed it but I'd like to read it.

Futuristic
August 14, 2005, 06:45 PM
Let's see, I get discounts from:

MidwayUSA - Lots of stuff, heck they even have 5.11 clothing :)

Brownells - They also have a special order desk if you can manage to find something they don't normally carry ;)

Graf and Sons - Like Midway, sometimes cheaper, somtimes more expensive :rolleyes:

Numrich (Gun Parts Corp.) - If it's a gun part, they likely have it :cool:

I'm sure there are others, those are just the ones I can think of right off. My C&R paid for itself on the first Midway order a couple of times over.

Of course, now my UPS man hates me. I have to get that guy something for christmas...

Futuristic

Matthew748
August 14, 2005, 06:56 PM
I feel your pain Somoss. I live inside the Cook county limits and no one will ship ammunition to my address. I guess everyone is scared off because Chicago is in the same county. As far as I know, AIM Surplus will not deal with Cook country residents either. Since I am not really into the whole "grab bag" approach, this is no great loss to me.

CARRY'IN
August 15, 2005, 12:14 AM
You cannot get CR handguns in California. You cant buy a handgun unless you have gone through a firearm safety course. And you have to wait ten days. And you cant buy a handgun unless it is on an approved list (many are not). I wont tell you how much they cost here....it is ridiculous.

CARRY'IN
August 15, 2005, 12:17 AM
I am sorry, you can get CR handguns, but only through a gun dealer. My mistake. But the only reason I would get a CR license is for all the cool surplus pistols. I got my Makarov from a really great guy who dealt from his house and did not rob you blind. He finally gave up the gun business because it is just too much of a hassle in California.

Kharn
August 15, 2005, 05:46 PM
PDF of a letter from Assitant AG Bowen to an AR15.com'er that asked about C&R handguns in MD (http://home.comcast.net/~dmmcfar/aagbowencandr.pdf)

Key portion:
"I checked with the Firearms Registration Section of the Maryland State Police Licensing Division who informed me that Maryland law imposed no restriction provided that the Curio and Relic type firearm was being imported directly to the license from outside of Maryland."

You can buy any C&R, including handguns, from out of state and have it shipped to your license address. Only when you buy it from within MD do you have to deal with the BS we're all too familiar with.

Kharn

anapex
August 15, 2005, 07:52 PM
Hey now that letter wasn't from an AR15.com'er, It was from me!

Kharn
August 15, 2005, 08:01 PM
Oh, I assumed someone from there wrote it, since thats where I found it.

Kharn

anapex
August 15, 2005, 08:20 PM
Have the link from where you found it at there?

Kharn
August 16, 2005, 09:55 AM
I only bookmarked the PDF file, not the post it came from, which was somewhere in the MD hometown forum.

Kharn

Gordon Fink
August 16, 2005, 03:55 PM
Centerfire Systems will not ship any firearms to C&R licensees in California. SOG requires Californian licensees to sign an additional waiver. :(

~G. Fink

M-Rex
September 2, 2005, 01:30 PM
I've been doing some research on C&R licensing here in California. Here is some key information on C&R licenses taken directly off of the California Attorney General's website. I printed these out and I will be keeping them with me when purchasing.

DOJ FAQ (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.htm)

3. What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?

All firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a licensed dealer under the Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) process. California imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a buyer or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To buy a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age, and either 1) possess an HSC plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with the handgun being purchased or 2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

As part of the DROS process, the buyer must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles. A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the buyer is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing to the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns are also required to provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification).

(PC Section 12071)

7. Is there a limit on the number of handguns that I can own or purchase?

While no limitation exists for the number of handguns that you may own, you are generally limited to purchasing no more than one handgun in any 30-day period.

Handgun transactions related to law enforcement, private party transfers, returns to owners, and certain other specific circumstances are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day limit.

(PC section 12072(a)(9))

14. I want to sell a gun to another person, i.e., a private party transfer. Am I required to conduct the transaction through a licensed California firearms dealer?

Yes. Firearm sales must be conducted through a fully licensed California firearms dealer. Failure to do so is a violation of California law. The buyer (and seller, in the event that the buyer is denied), must meet the normal firearm purchase and delivery requirements. "Antique firearms," as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and curio or relic rifles/shotguns, defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations that are over 50 years old, are exempt from this requirement.

Firearms dealers are required to process private party transfers upon request. Firearms dealers may charge a fee not to exceed $10 per firearm for conducting a private party transfer. Example:

a. For a private party transfer involving one or more handguns, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00 for the first handgun and $31.00 for each additional handgun involved in the same transaction
b. For private party transfers involving one or more long guns, or a private party transfer involving one handgun, the total allowable fees, including the DROS, safety, and dealer transfer fees, are not to exceed $35.00. The dealer may charge an additional dealer-service fee of $10.00 per each additional firearm transferred.

(PC section 12072(d))

18. Are there any exemptions to the waiting period?

For most people - no. However certain exemptions do exist for the following:

a. Full-time, paid California law enforcement officers are exempt if they have the required letter signed by the head of the agency or commanding officer. The dealer will keep the signed, original letter.
b. Firearms dealers and persons who have obtained special weapons permits issued by DOJ are exempt from the waiting period.
c. Persons with curio and relic collector's licenses issued by the ATF and who have a valid Certificate of Eligibility issued by the DOJ are exempt from the waiting period only when purchasing curio and relic firearms.

(PC sections 12078 (a)(r)(t))

24. I am a collector of firearms and I want to purchase a pair of consecutively-numbered pistols. Does the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction apply?

No. If you possess a valid federal Curio & Relics Collector's license and a valid California Certificate of Eligibility, you are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction.

(PC section 12072(a)(9)(x))

27. Can I get a list of the firearms for which I am listed as the purchaser, transferee, or owner?

Yes. To obtain a list of firearms listed in your name, send a letter requesting this information to the Automated Firearms Unit, P.O. Box 820200, Sacramento, CA 94203-0200. The letter must be signed, notarized, and include a photocopy of your photo ID card (ie., driver's license or DMV ID).

Hope this helps a bit.

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