22 supressor: screw-on vs. integral, pros/cons, etc


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cpileri
March 24, 2003, 03:36 PM
A suppressed 22 keeps calling me...

I fugure I will someday purchase one and have been wonderig which one exactly I should lean towards.

The main pro of a screw-on is that it can be moved from barrel to barrel, whereas an integral suppressor is a 200-dollar tax stamp EACH.

But an integral may be more quiet, but less accurate by some accounts.

I can see my eventual purchase being a bolt action, say a 77/22, since I don't know how to "felt' the action of a semi- to quiet it down.

Anyone please share thoughts, experiences, comments on any realted topic. Any info will help guide my decision.

I know MD is a class 3 state, but i don't know if supressors are banned individually or not.
(Only one more year in this freedom-forsaken state!)
thanks in advance,
C-

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bogie
March 24, 2003, 03:53 PM
Give Jon Ciener a call - his stuff is quality, and he knows the laws.

braindead0
March 24, 2003, 03:56 PM
Seems to me that a screw on isn't going to help too much, as you'd have to get threaded barrels..which I'm thinking aint gonna be cheap.

As far as the action, I don't think semi-auto action noise it too much to worry about... Of course, the only silenced weapon I've fired is an MP5S, and I guess they probably quiet up the action on them.

I'd love to get a silenced barrel for my MkII 22/45 ;-)

Hkmp5sd
March 24, 2003, 06:11 PM
It really comes down to what you plan in the future and what firearms you want suppressed.

Threaded suppressors are more fragile than integral ones. You have to protect the threads if using your firearm without the suppressor, screwing the suppressor on and off can cause wear and damage to the threaded area. Depending on the rifling, shooting the firearm may either loosen or tighten the suppressor. If you are shooting and you have to "snug-up" the suppressor, you can have problems getting it off once the gun cools.

On the other hand, integral suppressors lock you into that firearm.

With the exception of .22 firearms, suppressed semi-automatic or full-automatic firearms are loud. The cycling of the action is extremely loud. You are also releasing gases from the chamber. I have a suppressed stainless Walther PPK and it still requires hearing protection when firing. If you want a truly quiet weapon, get a bolt action. My MP5SD is quiet, but not as quiet as you see on TV. You can unload a full magazine in your house and no one outside would hear it, but it does make noise.

When you start talking NFA weapons, threaded barrels and such, the $200 transfer tax is generally one of the least expensive parts of the purchase.

BTW, MD does allow suppressors.

And if you happen to be in the area, Ciener's shop is just down from Ron Jon's Surf Shop in Coco Beach.

Benton
March 24, 2003, 10:14 PM
I went through the same questions on integral versus thread-on last year. I ended up having an integral suppressor installed on my Ruger MK-II pistol, an item that made me very happy when I got it. Too happy, perhaps, because then I ended up buying a thread on can too.

The integral is quieter than the thread-on when it is attached to my Walther P22, but I don't really notice the difference so much until I'm shooting them side-by-side. Yes, the muzzle can is flexible in its utility, and much easier to clean, but the Ruger has a great overall appearance, I think. It really is nice, too, to be able to take it out and not have people notice that it is silenced at first glance. A big part of the attraction of these things is, after all, inconspicuousness and discretion.

The muzzle can has a couple of advantages of its own. It's cheaper than any integral job, and its useful on both rifles and handguns. On the Walther P22 it is great for the weight it adds to the front end of that gun. It points easier and holds steadier. Also, when I put it into my inside jacket pocket the heavier stainless steel on the suppressor always stays down and keeps the plastic receiver of the pistol up top. It's the best way or me to carry the thing without resorting to an awkward special-made holster.

When on my CZ 452 rifle, the muzzle can is at its best. It is way quieter than the integral suppressor on the Ruger in this setup. Like you, I wondered about bolt versus semiauto for the rifle to thread. I thought the bolt would minimize the noise. Well, that's true during the actual moment of the shot. But the movement and sound working of the bolt for subsequent shots seems to offset this supposed advantage. I've found that a semi auto works about as well when you're trying to avoid spooking all the varmints on a quiet, still afternoon.

Good luck with your choices. These suppressors have renewed my excitement for shooting and have provided me with opportunities to plink that I never would have had otherwise. Now I can step outside the house and shoot when dull relatives and neighbors come to visit with my folks. Sunday afternoons I can enjoy my firearms without disturbing the peace of others. At night, when the rest of the household finally goes to bed, I can sit on the porch turn on the floodlights in the yard and go through boxes of ammo on targets without waking anyone. I recommend these accessories to anyone that enjoys shooting.

444
March 24, 2003, 10:43 PM
On a .22, I would want an integral suppressor. I bought a integrally suppressed Ruger 10/22 and an integrally suppressed Ruger Mk II by AWC. If I want to shoot a 10/22 or a MK II without a suppressor, I have other ones. They arn't that expensive. I also like the idea that it isn't easily recognized by the general public as an NFA weapon. One thing about the bolt noise; yes it makes noise, but it isn't a sound easily recognized as a gun shot. I suppose that a quiet mechanical sound might spook an animal, but few humans would recognize the sound as coming from a gun.
On a centerfire pistol, I would consider a screw on suppressor. On something like a Glock, Browning Hi-Power, or 1911 you can easily change out the barrel from a threaded barrel to a standard barrel.
My next two suppressors are going to be on AR15s; 9mm and .223. I am considering an integral suppressor upper for the 9 and a bi-lock on the .223.

cpileri
March 25, 2003, 08:53 AM
So far this is great stuff- exactly the kind of decision making thoughts that I am interested in@! Thanks!

For a screw-on, is it legal to have your non-threaded barrel threaded to accept the suppressor? Assuming a stock 10/22 or 77/22 or whatever, will adding that 'evil' feature be a problem?

Also, in my net surfing on this subject, I have decided that if i was a rich man my choice would be a suppressed American 180 with one of those huge capacity 165 or 275-rd pie mags!

Truthfully, that would be about the only 22 I would consider for HD! let's see 200+ 22LRs divided by 9= approximately equivalent to 20-plus loads of buckshot but no recoil and really quiet.

(In soothing, calming therapist voice: 'Yes, C-, thats what the rest of us call FANTASY!')

Anyway, my future purpose is simply fun. Right now, firing a 22 however quiet out my back door across the 35-foot patch of grass that separates my house from the next guys back door is probably not what my neighbor had in mind. And the smell of gunpowder burnt indoors would get my wife to not-so-silently whip my behind. Discharging a firearm inside city limits is probably illegal in-and-of-itself anyway.

It will be a rifle, so discretion is not much a factor.
So the bolt isn't really quieter than a semi? OK. So maybe a 10/22 or H&K 270 (if i can find one).

Does anyone know how to quiet down the action? i have heard the term 'felting the action' but really wouldn't have any idea where to put the felt. And what color should I have my wife grab at JoAnne's Fabrics? I mean really...

Seriously, how can you quiet the action on a 10/22? or so guys who sell suppressors also do all that stuff as well?

Does the integral suppressor make the effective barrel length so short as to make the projectile transonic and therefore the flight unstable? I did read a very good article in SAR about full auto, suppressed 10/22's where the velocity (of high-vel ammo) increased as bbl was shortened from 16in to 14.5 in but was still supersonic, then decreased to 4.5 in where the velocity became too low to cycle the action. In between these lenghths is a range where the velocity hovered at the supersonic/subsonic border (i.e transonic) and had alot of unstable flight problems.

Adding the suppressor to the 4.5i bbl allowed enough gas pressure to cycle the action, while remaining subsonic.

So I would think I would like to either have a real expert optimize the bbl length for maximum subsonic velocity with an integral, or else just use a screw-on and some of that Aguila SSS which does cycle a 10/22 I hear.

Please keep the thoughts coming!
C-

444
March 25, 2003, 10:19 AM
I think you are making too big of a deal out of the action noise of a 10/22. Take a 10/22, insert a loaded mag, pull back the bolt and chamber a round. That is how load the action noise is. The only way I know of to decrese that "noise" is to use a buffer, which I use in my regular 10/22s also. This is nothing more than a plastic rod that replaces one of the metal pins in the trigger group. It is supposed to reduce wear on the action, but it also reduces the metal to metal sound a little. In my opinion the action noise is a non-issue.

Velocity: Most of these suppressors is designed to keep the bullet subsonic. The idea is that you don't have to shoot special ammo. You can go to Wal Mart and buy a carton of .22 ammo and the suppressor will take care of the rest; make the round subsonic. It is essental that the round be subsonic; if it isn't the report will be suppressed, but the bullet will emit a sonic boom negating the effect of the suppressor.

American 180: I can make your dream come true. If you want an American 180 I know where you can get one right now. It has one of those big "pie" magazines.

cpileri
March 25, 2003, 02:42 PM
444 you're KILLING me!

You should know better than to prey on a guys weakness like that!

OK, I'll bite: where is it? what size mag? how reliable? how much? etc.

Oh, and I'd have to have the seller agree to hold the mag for a year since anything over 20-rds is a no-no in this state (unless there is some exemption for class3 that i don't know about).

Have you (or anyone else) ever fired one? is it as FUN as it looks like?

And, of course...
is it suppressed?

C-

444
March 25, 2003, 02:53 PM
I don't really know anything about it other than the fact that John at Pahrump Valley Police Supply has one sitting there. I am fairly certain it isn't suppressed.

Benton
March 25, 2003, 02:58 PM
I had the barrel on my CZ 452 cut back to 17-inches to keep down the overall length when the suppressor is attached. Otherwise it would be like walking about in the woods with a pool cue. I've had no trouble with rounds going supersonic when using standard and target loads.

Yes, if you live in the city, I suppose firing a rifle is a bad idea, no matter how quiet. I suggest you buy Al Paulson's Silencer History and Performance, Volume I to answer many questions you may have about suppressors. Volume II is not so essential, but I have high hopes for the third one. Many advancements have been made since the publication of his first book; however the basic principles and history are still excellent.

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