Mannlicher Stocks????


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Jesse308
August 14, 2005, 07:08 PM
Does the mannlicher style stocks have any advantages or disadvantages? Also does anybody have a rifle with that kind of stock and how do you like it? And do you have any pictures you can post? Thanks :D

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R.H. Lee
August 14, 2005, 07:16 PM
I don't know, but I want one. This one:
http://www.cz-usa.com/images/products/17.jpg
http://www.cz-usa.com/01.detail.php?id=17

Jesse308
August 14, 2005, 08:41 PM
Yeah RileyMC, the CZ 550FS in the reason why I asked the questions. :D

Tylden
August 14, 2005, 08:47 PM
I've been considering a CZ mannlicher stock as well....haven't made up my mind on which caliber yet though. I don't know for sure, but I suspect their accuracy could be somewhat effected. I know the end cap on the CZ's are designed to not touch the barrel, but I'm not sure about floating the barrel on one. Advantages.....it sure would look NICE hanging on my wall rack !!!

Cosmoline
August 14, 2005, 09:02 PM
The advantage is that it protects the barrel, like the traditional military full-length stocks. The disadvantage is it can interfere with accuracy, esp. as the barrel heats up. I know the Finns used a sleeve device on their 28/30's to prevent this, and CZ has their plastic device. But in the end it's pretty tough to prevent all contact.

dgludwig
August 14, 2005, 09:13 PM
As I see it, the only valid reason to have a mannlicher stock is because you might like the looks of it. There seems to be little middle ground on this: some hate 'em and some love 'em. I happen to fall in the latter category. I have two: a little Steyr Mannlicher Zephyer .22 rimfire and a Ruger 77 MKII in .308.

Although there are no intrinsic advantages that I know of (other than the aforementioned subjective aesthetic value), there is evidence that a mannlicher stock can pose problems with bedding related accuracy and can be finnicky. I've never heard of a rifle with a full-length stock winning any major accuracy events.

IMO, mannlichers don't always look good. In order to be "pleasing to the eye", the stock and action have to be well-proportioned. This is a very subjective issue and opinions can be varied. However, I don't think many would disagree that Winchester's 1960's era Model 70 mannlicher was a good example as to how not to do it. On the other hand, I like the looks of the CZ 550 FS as pictured by the poster, albeit, the buttstock looks a little "clubby" for my tastes.

jefnvk
August 14, 2005, 09:27 PM
I want one of those 550's in 6.5 Swede.

I don't think there is any advantage outside of combat zones, but they sure look pretty.

DorGunR
August 14, 2005, 10:46 PM
I have three rifles with the manlicher stock and I wish I owned more. Here is my Ruger #1 International chambered for .270

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/DorGunR/rifle006.jpg

Ruger 10/22
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/DorGunR/rifle021.jpg

Chuck R.
August 14, 2005, 10:56 PM
Ive got two, a Steyr Mannlicher in 30-06 and a Remington Model 7 from their custom shop in .350 Magnum. Both have free-floated barrels and have proved to be pretty accurate. The Remington with its short stiff 20 barrel is very accurate.

About the only benefit I can see is looks, and to me they do look good.

Chuck

Eightball
August 14, 2005, 10:59 PM
*whistles*

DorGunR---That is one beaut of a rifle. How much'd it run ya, and how does it shoot?

DorGunR
August 14, 2005, 11:06 PM
Eightball, I bought the rifle IIRC in 1996/97 but I don't remember what I paid for it, and the scope did not come with the rifle. How does it shoot? Well it shoots better than I do. :)

KurtC
August 14, 2005, 11:45 PM
The full length stock, or RepetierStutzen, is an off shoot of the carbines carried by the Austrian cavalry in the 1880's and 90's. Mannlicher-Schoenaur used it to protect the barrels of their svelte alpine carbines.

Accuracy is typical or better on rifles with properly inletted stocks. It doesn't matter whether the wood touches the barrel or is free-floated. It is more important that the contact (or non-contact) is uniform. Many lesser quality full stock rifles have varying degrees of pressure on the barrel, and this changes the POI as soon as things heat up.

The CZ550's that I have shot were very accurate. The Ruger 77RSI is a roll of the dice, some are good, some aren't. The Zoli 1900 uses a free floated barrel with a rubber bushing connecting the sling swivel. It was very accurate. Original Mannlicher-Schoenauer and Mausers (models M and S) are also very accurate as long as they have not been removed from the stock too many times. The Brno 22f can be very accurate for the first few shots, but they use a pencil thin barrel that heats up quickly. Sako used a very heavy barrel on theirs, and Remington beds the front lug on their little 7MS.

Campusninja
August 15, 2005, 03:12 AM
I hope to pick my 550 FS chambered in 308, in the next few weeks. The Mannlicher stock has grown on me for some time, and I have wanted a centerfire rifle for the longest time.
As others have mentioned or enquired, I was also interested in the history and what effects (if any) this stock style might have on accraucy.

Byron Quick
August 15, 2005, 10:39 AM
I got a CZ 550FS a couple of months ago. I've been pleased thus far. The rifle is more accurate than I am.

The hogsback buttstock was the deciding factor for me not the Mannlicher forestock.

I have a BRNO 602ZKK in .458 Winchester Magnum. Al Thompson and I were both impressed with the the relatively light recoil of the weapon. He had a Ruger (M77, I believe) in .458 Winchester Magnum. He said his rifle kicked like a mule. Seeing as how we were using the same lot of ammunition that had kicked so badly in his Ruger, we wondered what the difference was. Recoil pad? No. The BRNO had a hard rubber pad. Thin. The only thing that we could figure was the hogsback buttstock apparently reduces felt recoil. My BRNO's recoil is about the same as a twelve gauge shooting full load slugs. Stout but not excessive.

But the cost of .458 ammunition! I wanted a .308 in the same stock style and same action. The only .308 with iron sights that CZ produces with the hogsback buttstock is the CZ 550FS. I've been happy with it. I don't know what it would do with a scope from a rest. I haven't put a scope on it nor shot from a rest.

My drills with it have consisted of field position and working on firing consecutve rounds while maintaing a sight picture throughout.

Mossyrock
August 15, 2005, 11:37 AM
I have a weakness for the Mannlicher stock style that I inhereted from my Dad. Back in the early '60s, he had a custom rifle built to his specs using an '03 action in a birdseye maple Mannlicher-style stock. It is chambered for the .263 Sabre (6.5-06 Improved) and, given its light, short barrel, it shoots very, very well. As was the practice at that time, it is full-length bedded. It was built with a blind magazine like the 700 ADL and the whole rig, to include the ancient technology Bausch and Lomb mount and 3X9 scope only weights around 7.5 pounds.

Because of this rifle, and the Mannlicher-stocked custom '03 in .257 Roberts Ackley Improved that sits next to it in the vault (which I used to kill my first deer), I have owned a bunch of Mannlicher-stocked rifles myself, to include an '03 Springfield in .35 Whelen and two Ruger 77 Internationals, one in .308 and another in .250 Savage that I rechambered to .257 Roberts (which I used to kill me LAST deer. See a pattern here?). The .35 Whelen was a very accurate rifle with a rebored arsenal barrel. The two Rugers, while very handy, never shot all that well. I suspect my next one will be the Remington Model 7 Mannlicher in .350 Remington Mag mentioned by the other poster above. I have looked at these since they came out and they just keep looking better and better....

thatguy
August 15, 2005, 01:59 PM
My 550 FS (http://www.fototime.com/32903868B537954/standard.jpg)

Vern Humphrey
August 15, 2005, 03:04 PM
The story is the Kaiser liked them -- he used his rifle as a walking stick while hunting, and the full-length stock was more comfortable to hold.

Full-length stocks are very Germanic -- the early Pennsylvania rifles, which were made by German (Pennsylvania "Dutch") gunsmiths had them, albeit a little different in configuration.

Drue
August 15, 2005, 06:29 PM
I agree with jefnvk. The 550 Mannlicher in 6.5 Swede would be the bees knees. I want one too!

Drue

Tinker2
August 15, 2005, 06:59 PM
I like my 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer in 6.5 M-S

corncob
August 15, 2005, 09:23 PM
Besides the M77 (which I detest) does anyone know of a bolt rifle available with a full-length stock for a lefty??

Mannlicher
August 15, 2005, 09:25 PM
I have a few Mannlicher full stocked rifles :)

R.H. Lee
August 15, 2005, 09:25 PM
thatguy, how about some more details on that 550FS. What caliber? What kind of scope? How does it shoot?

Eightball
August 15, 2005, 10:45 PM
Whatever the offsets are on the "accuracy/bedding/whatnot" department, I for one love the full-length stock's look.

Maldy
August 16, 2005, 02:49 AM
I have a Ruger #1 International (Mannlicher stock) in .30-06 that I love. It's not sub-MOA, but I am not usually, either. It drives me crazy that Ruger doesn't offer the #1 International in .308! Is there any reason that the .308 caliber wouldn't be qualified to be considered 'international'?

Mark

llsierra
August 16, 2005, 12:04 PM
I have TOO MANY Mannlichers and mannlicher stocked rifles/carbines, and I love them. The points have already been made about "why" the stock. The CZ 550 is a nice and affordable Mannlicher stocked rifle, had one in 6.5x55, shot one deer with it, then sold it because it did not do anything that my regular M1903 and M1956 MCA did not do. I have shot the largest number of deer with my M1903 carbine, and I do not know if my Steyr-Mannlicher .222 or my .243 put the most woodchucks to sleep. (Note: the Steyr-Mannlicher SL in .222, .222 Rem Mag, and .223 are terribly accurate right out of the box)

LLS

mtnbkr
August 16, 2005, 01:29 PM
I like my 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer in 6.5 M-S
I'd like to have one of those myself. Maybe in a different caliber since I already have a rifle I like in 6.5x55...

Chris

KurtC
August 16, 2005, 01:49 PM
The Sako mannlicher carbine was available in left hand models, in both the early L61 and the later L691. They have been out of production since 1996, but some nice examples are still around.

Sauer still makes their 202 Stutzen in a left hand version, and may also make the model 90 as well. However, these cost about 2x the price of a Sako.

Salvage Sailor
November 18, 2005, 04:13 PM
I like my 1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer in 6.5 M-S

Aloha Tinker,

Here's a photo of my Grandfathers Model 1903 Takedown Mannlicher Schoenauer with a Leopard kill, circa 1933 Malaya. I believe it's an 8mm. Unfortunatley for me it was willed to my little brother, leather case, scope, original ammo and all.

Anchor's Aweigh

Vern Humphrey
November 18, 2005, 04:26 PM
Nice. My dad killed a tiger in Sumatra with a .245 Savage about the same time. I wish I knew where that gun is.

pacecars
November 18, 2005, 06:10 PM
Here is a pic of mine (which is also listed in the classified section)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y40/pacecars/Mannlicher.jpg

another okie
November 18, 2005, 06:29 PM
I have the little Ruger .22 rifle with the Mannlicher stock. I don't know why they appeal to me, but I always wanted one. I suppose it's sort of exotic or European looking. I like it, but I don't think it has any practical advantages. My understanding is that the Austrian emperor liked to use his rifle as a walking stick.

cowboy77845
November 19, 2005, 11:53 AM
My FS CZ 308 shoots GI ball and Core-lokt under an inch at 100 yds. Hogs tremble in fear. Got deer and hog last week. Love it. You will not be disappointet. I suggest you get an xtra magazine.

nero45acp
November 19, 2005, 12:25 PM
I have a CZ 452 FS (.22LR) that I'm very happy with. One of these days I'd like to get a mannlicher rifle chambered in .223.:cool:


nero

Salvage Sailor
January 22, 2006, 04:58 PM
These photos are from Malaya circa 1934

sportbikefan
January 22, 2006, 09:36 PM
here is a pic of my mannlincher...winchester model 70 made in 1970 30-06

jamesm029
September 21, 2007, 08:09 PM
purely for looks no other advantage

I prefer womanlicher style myself

gezzer
September 22, 2007, 12:08 AM
Acuracy advantage = no, Class and looks advantage = yes++++++++++++++++

feudist
September 22, 2007, 07:22 PM
You know,there's just no good way to pronounce "Mannlicher":)

flashhole
September 22, 2007, 09:42 PM
This is my 550 Full Stock. I stripped the factory finish and refinished it with Tung Oil.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v69/GuideGun/Refinidhedstock1.jpg

The gun is accurate but I would like it better with an after-market peep sight (can't find one). It's quick to shoulder and the hogback stock is a good fit to the shoulder/cheek piece which make the sights easy to pick up. It's well balanced and the single set trigger is a dream come true. You will not be disappointed.

SCW
September 22, 2007, 10:21 PM
I own a CZ 452 in 22lr with a Manlicher stock, it is now my favorite gun (sometimes, I have a few favorites) and a few milsurps which are similar. Actually I'm kinda in love with full-length stocks, they are just fantastic.

As far as advantages, I find the full length stock to be a HUGE improvement when shooting offhand, the weight is better balanced away from the body and it's easier to settle the crosshairs/sights on target. A heavy barrel will duplicate this, but not with the panache.

Jeff F
September 22, 2007, 11:57 PM
I love the looks of the full stocks on sporting rifles.

Macgille
September 23, 2007, 12:10 AM
I have a mossberg .22LR with a mannlicher stock. It is a supremely accurate rifle and really looks nice. As was said in another reply , if the stock is inletted properly it doesn't affect accuracy. However, I have noticed that quality work is conspicuously absent in modern guns. I would look VERY closely at any new mannlicher stocked rifle. It takes hand work and craftsmanship to properly inlet a stock.:(

windjammer
September 23, 2007, 01:36 PM
I have a very nice Interarms Mark X Mannlicher .243 w/ a 3X9 Redfield Scope in the classified ads right now. Shipped to your FFL....$450.00

bmyers5229@bellsouth.net

phantomak47
September 23, 2007, 01:55 PM
Are full stocks like these less than desirable for scopes? are they better suited for peep or open sights? I would want to scope a cz550 fs, but if its not suitable for a scope, I wouldnt want to get one, opinions?

The_Antibubba
September 23, 2007, 07:01 PM
My very first firearm was a 10/22 International, and offhand shooting was great with it. I want to get another one someday.

KI.W.
September 23, 2007, 07:59 PM
Gun with Mannlicherstock is better walking stick.

iflya310
December 17, 2007, 12:13 AM
I seem to have a habit of making a short story long but, the skinny on Model 70 Mannlicher Style Rifles, 7004. it is first necessary to identify the rifle in question. Roughly, Winchester made +/- 2401 of these Model 70 Mannlicher Style 7004 ("rack" rifles). A few mannlicher stocked Model 70 rifles of variations and caliber...special orders... were made in Winchester's Custom Shop and by a few outside contractors. To address the issue , they are not included. Also, any "after market" conversions were made with mannlicher stocks. Beware, counterfeit stocks are being manufactured today and are represented as "rare finds". Original 7004 receivers were picked off line and the serial number was hand etched onto the bolt. In the first year of "official production" (1968) the bolt handles were smooth. From then on the bolt handles were knurled.

Many features of the original stocks and metal are easy to identify it you know what to look for. For instance, an original M70 7004 never had "lightweight" or "carbine" stamped on the barrel. The original stocks were made by Fajen.... ALL OF THEM!! however, the current production stock is made on a copy-cat jig and even to an experienced eye, is difficult to pick out. It is no trick, using a featherweight or carbine post 64, to cut the barrel, refit an after market stock and claim it is an original.

The serial number test for the date and style of manufacture is inconclusive . I have original appearing mannlicher style rifles with serial numbers indicating dates of manufacture from 1966 through 1974. In my attempt to focus the caliber mix, I believe the quantitys are as follows: 30-06 = 1204, .270=593, .243=387, .308=217. This information has no published basis but if you contact me, I can share with you the sources from which it was derived.

This is the best information I have based on the 40 years I have followed this rifle. I will continue searching until it can eventually be verified or disproved.

Interestingly, The rifles were not a "HOT ITEM". The reason? Perhaps the European styling was not popular after the Cold War. For whatever reason, Winchester sent about half of these rifles to overseas markets. Therefore only about half the rifles remain in the U.S.. I have catalogs showing, in addition to the U.S., they were marketed in Europe, Canada, and Australia.This could suggest that the Model 70, Mannlicher Style Rifles (Model 7004) remaining in the U.S. represent the most scarce group of production rifles ever made by Winchester. For additional information or simple palaver, feel free to contact Steve. iflya310@yahoo.com

harmonic
December 17, 2007, 12:19 AM
I bought the Ruger 10/22 International because of the Mannlicher. I had a standard 10/22 but it was so light at the muzzle it was unstable for me.

The Mannlicher adds just the right amount of heft.

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